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#2877212 - 09/05/17 10:36 AM Your opinion on Apple critique
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
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Leo LaPorte did not go this far, but he mentioned some aspects of Apple that were on the negative side.. I did not pay close attention... only got a hint. Now the above video came out a user who has stronger opinions.

And you say!?


Edited by I-missRichardTee (09/05/17 10:39 AM)
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#2877218 - 09/05/17 10:58 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Toano88 Offline
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Steve Jobs died leaving the company to Tim Cook who seems to care more about politics than running his company. They really are going downhill. It's sad but true.
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#2877219 - 09/05/17 11:00 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Toano88]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 6042
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A week later from same person who made original complaints
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#2877226 - 09/05/17 11:33 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Toano88]
AnotherScott Offline
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I thought Jobs was brilliant on aesthetic design and in marketing. Other than that--which is not insignificant, as that's probably what saved Apple--I was not a fan of much of what he did after returning to Apple. Shoehorning a Mac look and feel into his NeXT OS created a kludgey design that, to this day, is not as elegant and straight-forward in operation (nor as efficient in processing) as the earlier Mac OS it replaced, despite the aesthetic improvements (and more solid multitasking). Similarly, IMO, the iOS interface has always been an operational abomination (albeit still better than Android).

In terms of hardware, again, you can't fault the physical designs, but expansion/upgradability were always of minimal concern, and backward and forward compatibility of both hardware and software never seemed to be much of a concern under Jobs. I'm not sure Tim Cook is doing much different, he just doesn't do it with as much panache.

I will also credit Jobs with being the driving force behind the iPod and iPhone concepts, though, and of course making sure they looked good and were marketed well. OTOH, if Jobs had had his way, there would only be one size of iPad, and I think Cook's decision to approve both bigger and smaller ones was a good move.
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#2877229 - 09/05/17 11:43 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: AnotherScott]
mate stubb Offline
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It's not just musicians fleeing newer macs. Software developers cling to their old machines as well.

Apple has decided to abandon the creative types that were their core constituency for so many years and just makes cheap consumer goods now, which they are charging premium prices for.
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#2877234 - 09/05/17 12:13 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: mate stubb]
Toano88 Offline
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Actually Scott the use of the Unix kernel allowed them to upgrade hardware much quicker with less developers. Being open source he could leverage the minds of developers worldwide. The unix kernel and bash shell also allows anyone to connect to unix servers much easier than using kludges like cygwin. After OS-X came out, government agencies like NASA started replacing Linux and Windows/cygwin and Solaris desktops. It had a rough start but in the end, I believe that was a very good decision because it got them a lot of government money at a time when they needed it.
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#2877242 - 09/05/17 12:54 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: mate stubb]
GregC Offline
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Originally Posted By: mate stubb
It's not just musicians fleeing newer macs. Software developers cling to their old machines as well.

Apple has decided to abandon the creative types that were their core constituency for so many years and just makes cheap consumer goods now, which they are charging premium prices for.



I agree with this.

I also think that its pointless to consider what individual consumers think, such as myself and the guy in that YT.

Apples stock is at $161 today. It was at $116 on Jan 4 of this year.

If Apple was that awful, their stock would not be making people rich(er) like this.

My conclusion is that Nobody Cares ( that includes Apple). Since they don't, I don't see any useful reason to get annoyed by what they do. Apple will not be replaced anytime soon.

I will cling to my 2013 MBP and 2015 Mac minis as long as possible.

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#2877257 - 09/05/17 02:02 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: GregC]
Jazz+ Offline
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#2877261 - 09/05/17 02:16 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: GregC]
tfort Offline
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Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 78
His comments re. Apple leaving old ports behind is mistaken; Steve Jobs jettisoned old ports as much/more than the current Apple. Floppies, USB, etc. It's been that way since the first Mac, and I have owned at least one since 1988 or 1989.

His comments re. FaceTime not recording? Seems to me like he had a very frustrating experience entirely of his own creation due to lack of planning/testing. He tried to record an important interview with new (to him) technology at the spur of the moment? Good luck with that. Everyone in the Mac podcast world has been recording with Skype for years. Not sure why, but I know there were some legal challenges to FaceTime that prevented it from becoming open-sourced like Jobs claimed it would be.

I've watched a lot of Rick's videos, but what is the old saying-- proper prior planning prevents piss-poor performance...?

He's not entirely wrong, imo: Apple has left its pro desktop users out in the cold the last three years or so. They seem to have had a late realization of the pitfalls of this approach and mean to rectify it with the iMac Pro and the new Mac Pro whenever it comes out in 2018. iTunes is a bit of a mess. I'm not thrilled with Photos, either.

Still, he's made a good career using Apple hardware and software. In a year or two I'd like to see if he's as happy/successful with all of his non-Apple hardware and software.

All in all, I expected a better, more reasoned argument against Apple in the pro market. As it was, the video was a rant which lowered my opinion of his judgment.

Re. his followup video: streaming music is changing the industry. I have read Apple is trying to pay artists more than Pandora and Spotify. Not sure how correct that is, but it seems like everyone is making less money than before. Regarding the App Store vs. Google Play store: Apple Store makes way more money for developers; partly because there is so much less malware and illegal copying. Lots of little details re. the 30% argument have changed regarding long-term subscriptions to apps. Also, Rick's comments about no-one using Logic on new computers-- may have some truth re. the trash can Mac Pro, but I hear lots of current love for Logic Pro X on the MacBook Pro. (https://www.apple.com/logic-pro/in-action/gregkurstin-adele/)

Personally, I'm willing to pay a small premium for Apple products solely for their stance on privacy.


Edited by tfort (09/06/17 10:56 AM)
Edit Reason: Watched 2nd video.

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#2877264 - 09/05/17 02:32 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: GregC]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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The advantage of Apple has always been that they have complete control over the hardware and the operating system. This has allowed them to provide an excellent user experience - very little required of the end user to get excellent performance, particularly with pro-level apps but also in their consumer lines.

Having a loyal user base interested in innovation has also allowed Apple to make tough decisions and roll out abrupt changes. Like the mentioned USB, Firewire, Thunderbolt all of which offered better performance but required purchase of peripherals designed to work with it. Even in the consumer line the switch from 30 pin to Lightning offered speed improvements and sleeker design. Apple was able to change from PowerPC to Intel. If they need to or want to change processors because they see a performance, battery life or other gain over the roadmap they are on, they can do so and their user base will follow.

Apple literally moved their users and developers over to the Unix based OSX in a transition that was seamless for end users. The move single handedly brought over a flood of software developers to the platform and the app store. OSX offered amazingly stable performance, included core audio and midi services that had never been a priority for Microsoft. Apple purchased eMagic, users of Logic for OS9 were brought over to the first version of Logic for OSX without cost. Apple slashed the cost of a professional DAW to $199 - compared to say Cubase ($579.99 or Pro Tools $299 and $99 a year, etc.). Apple brought us the amazing Mainstage. And despite the company being massively successful in the consumer lines, they allow the pro audio division to continue to update and develop Logic and Mainstage much to their users' applause.

iOS is the creative professionals mobile OS. Android has been playing catch up since the first iPad appeared regarding midi and audio services and developers have flocked to the platform and continue to push what the hardware can do with music performance applications and peripherals.

I don't know guys. The grass is always greener on the other side but I haven't seen Apple's commitment to music fade at all since Jobs' passing. A successful platform is one that makes money for Apple, their software and peripheral developers, and fulfills their end users' needs and desires - sometimes before they even know they have them. We can whine about the upgrade cycle, and the technology (and port) changes, and the cost - but hopefully if we are using this stuff professionally/creatively it is also earning us money. Or at the very least bringing us creative satisfaction making music. Like anything else, purchase wisely, stay within your budget and don't upgrade or update unless you see an advantage to doing so or you can afford it.

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#2877281 - 09/05/17 03:26 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: ElmerJFudd]
zxcvbnm098 Online   content
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Not perfect, but still my choice by a mile. Customer service is second to none, and it's still the only platform that makes sense for my family.....since I'm the IT person of the household.

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#2877285 - 09/05/17 04:08 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: zxcvbnm098]
David Emm Offline
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I respond by putting my fingers in my ears and singing the LA LA LA song. I started on a PowerMac and have never looked back, because STABILITY. I found Windows' housekeeping overload paradigm insulting. By contrast, every Mac I've had was still running fine when I upgraded and each upgrade has made life progressively simpler. Logic has become so complete for my needs, I'm gobsmacked by it. Their hardware quality control and customer service frankly kick other companies to the curb. I'm not deaf to part of the complaints. It was a real loss when Mac Minis could no longer have their hard disks upgraded, as it closed the door on a cheaper power option. Synth companies "bug" us all the time by not hewing to 100% of our whims. You jump on the upgrade-go-round at a hopeful point, you hustle to update and upgrade to fit the new setup and then get on with it. My response to the more brittle hollering: so what. I have a wealth of musical means, I'm not in the path of a hurricane and I do not live in Somalia. A certain amount of friction is inevitable, but as Charles Ives said, "Let him take his dissonance like a man." keys
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#2877291 - 09/05/17 04:42 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: GregC]
OB Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 847
Loc: San Diego CA, US
Originally Posted By: GregC
Apples stock is at $161 today. It was at $116 on Jan 4 of this year.
If Apple was that awful, their stock would not be making people rich(er) like this


Kind of a dumb argument, if you ask me. I can name a dozen awful dotcom companies whose market valuation is bereft of the reality that they've never made a profit and probably never will. Apple at least is very profitable, but their product line is getting worse, not better.

The guy in the video is on a rant, but he makes a lot of good points. It's also worth pointing out that things were not perfect under Steve "there's nothing wrong with your phone, you're just holding it wrong" Jobs, but things do seem to be getting worse now. A lot worse. iTunes is without a doubt the worst, buggiest POS software that I use on a regular basis. iOS is full of irritating bugs, as is iMessage. iCloud sync works most of the time, but fails often enough to be an irritation. I wish Apple would take a year off to fix all these stupid and persistent bugs instead of releasing crap nobody is asking for (thinner phones, Alexa knockoff devices, wireless earbuds).

I don't see a viable alternative though. OSX is rock solid, and integration between it and iOS, despite its many quirks, is lightyears ahead of the Android world. And at least we have some cause to believe Apple doesn't spy on is, which certainly is not the case for Google & Android.

To abuse a Churchill quote: Apple devices are the worst, except for all the others.

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#2877292 - 09/05/17 05:01 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: OB Dave]
Husker Offline
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Is this the point where I say how much I despise Apple, hate IOS, and love Android?
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#2877293 - 09/05/17 05:12 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: I-missRichardTee]
CowboyNQ Offline
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Registered: 06/14/15
Posts: 572
Loc: Adelaide, Australia
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
And you say!?

I think he has some valid points, although I suspect he attributes too much of what irks him to the change in leadership at the company.

But I also like Apple gear, at our house we have iPhones and iPads out the wazoo, along with resident tech support (two teenage sons). And I love my ever reliable but now ancient iPad2 that joins me on stage in one of my bands. FWIW, I also like Windows 10.


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#2877297 - 09/05/17 05:32 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: OB Dave]
GregC Offline
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Originally Posted By: OB Dave
Originally Posted By: GregC
Apples stock is at $161 today. It was at $116 on Jan 4 of this year.
If Apple was that awful, their stock would not be making people rich(er) like this


Kind of a dumb argument, if you ask me. I can name a dozen awful dotcom companies whose market valuation is bereft of the reality that they've never made a profit and probably never will. Apple at least is very profitable, but their product line is getting worse, not better.

.


Big money, investor money is always the bottom line. Nothing dumb about that.

And Apple is not a dot com. Non valid comparison. Apple obviously has been successful in the investor arena, the ultimate marketplace, for decades.

I realize many of us are absorbed with our personal observations about Apple, tech, etc.

from my observation, Apple is not going to read your opinion about the product line getting worse. Or mine.

If it was that bad, the investors would be agreeing with you. They obviously have little concern about the product line.

I am not defending Apple. I have my list of gripes. But they do not care.

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#2877302 - 09/05/17 06:24 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: GregC]
Geoff Grace Offline
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His complaints seem to center around FaceTime and iTunes and the fact that one of his Macs died. I use FaceTime only a little, so I can't really comment on that; but I use iTunes a lot and I like some of the features he dismissed—particularly the radio feature, which I listen to often. I'll grant that iTunes could use a simplified interface option for casual users, though, perhaps like the one Logic has to make it look and behave more like Garage Band.

That said, my great experiences with Apple far outnumber the bad ones. Just last month, they gave me a free Magic wireless keyboard when my old one died, just because my MacBook Pro had an AppleCare plan. Never mind that I couldn't remember whether or not I bought it at the same time as my Mac.

I notice that few of his complaints related to the platform for music production. He only ranted about the ever-evolving interface standards and lack of user-configurability. While I was bothered at first about the latter of those issues, I've found that I'm happy with my MacBook Pro as is. In fact, I've had fewer problems with it than any other Mac—and I've been a user since 1990. When I recently upgraded my copy of TechTool Pro, I wondered if I was throwing away my money. I haven't had the need to use this once crucial app for years now.

In the meantime, the "It just works" slogan Mac users have said for years has never been more true than now in my experience. As always, YMMV.

Best,

Geoff
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#2877304 - 09/05/17 06:33 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Geoff Grace]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Funny that it's 2017 and this debate still goes on. Just tools. We pick what works and get on with our day. Heck there are guys using iPads as their sound engine which I am just not ready to do - but if it works for them. <shrug> Just another computing device that does what you need in a way that works for you, and that's that.
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#2877305 - 09/05/17 06:50 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Geoff Grace]
RABid Offline
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Is Samsung the new Apple? I see more and more young people using Samsung phones. Recent Apple innovations include things like no headphone jack and removing the home button. Recent Samsung innovations include things like affordable VR glasses to connect to the phone.
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#2877307 - 09/05/17 07:09 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: RABid]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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They are definitely Apple's #1 competitor as far as phones go. And realistically you can go that route unless we're talking about music performance as we do here. There really isn't any reason to choose Android over iOS for that purpose if you are starting from scratch (no investment in either).
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#2877309 - 09/05/17 07:29 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Toano88]
Marzzz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Toano88
Tim Cook seems to care more about politics than running his company.
Yes, this. Cook's forté was the supply operations of Apple, fortunately there are still many creatives (Jony Ive, etc.) who keep trying to come up with innovative designs. But I really wish Cook would STFU about a lot of the things he likes to talk about...

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#2877313 - 09/05/17 07:39 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: RABid]
MotiDave Offline
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This reads a lot like the comments about new keyboards. Every new keyboard is missing something that someone here wants. Every keyboard is a slap to the face of some expert user who knows better than the manufacturer what it should really be. And there's the rub - There is no magical universal widget that uniformly satisfies every possible user.

Apple does not satisfy the most tech-savvy on purpose not because they hate you or can't hear you. Its because there are too few of you. My mom loves her iPhone iPod and ipad. She can barely use her new Win10 laptop, we had to set her up with email, contacts, printer etc. she was able to do everything she wants on her apple products without help.

She doesn't like android phones. Too complicated smile. I don't think they are harder, just different. My 2c is a lot of people have androids because carriers give them away with a contract commitment. iPhones you get a discount but not free. (I think?)

Does apple risk losing share as more and more young kids are so tech savvy? Maybe ... beats me. They bought Beats, which we all know here sucks. All I know is when Apple stock was at $105 in January, I called my broker and said uh, this apple stock is flapping on the pavement like the fish in Faith No More's "Epic". He said lets hang on for a bit, i think it will move. His best call in the last 10 yrs.
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#2877314 - 09/05/17 07:40 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: MotiDave]
MotiDave Offline
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Btw, i heard the top iPhone 8 will run $1200 or something. That's insane.
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#2877326 - 09/05/17 08:32 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: OB Dave]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Originally Posted By: Toano88
Actually Scott the use of the Unix kernel allowed...

I'm not denying there are technical advantages, especially in multi-user environments. But in many ways, OS X still provides the individual user an inferior user experience to the older MacOS, IMO. I think it's generally more complicated, and more difficult to troubleshoot. (Also slower on the same hardware, though there is no longer any hardware that runs both).

Originally Posted By: OB Dave
To abuse a Churchill quote: Apple devices are the worst, except for all the others.

Bingo.
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#2877327 - 09/05/17 08:32 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: MotiDave]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Samsung Galaxy Note 8 is already $1k. This is where the endless upgrade and need for latest most innovative features has pushed us. Not a price point for the cash strapped. But that's not the customer they are after. Trickle down and yester-year models for the rest of us.

In fact they're all already working on what replaces the phone. Probably contact lenses synced to your watch with augmented reality user interface.
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#2877342 - 09/05/17 11:07 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Geoff Grace]
zephonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: Geoff Grace
That said, my great experiences with Apple far outnumber the bad ones.


+1

I could bore everyone here to death with everything I think is wrong with Apple, but the over-all experience is still a largely positive one.
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#2877347 - 09/05/17 11:58 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: zephonic]
kat1 Offline
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Registered: 09/04/17
Posts: 4
Loc: india
Can someone please tell what is the theory behind a minor chord becoming a major in a major scale like now i am playing a bollywood song called senorita which is in the key of a major but in the song there come some parts where c minor becomes c major ,f# minor becomes f# major and b minor becomes b major.Please explain the theory behind it.
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#2877353 - 09/06/17 02:57 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: tfort]
JerryA Offline
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Originally Posted By: tfort
Personally, I'm willing to pay a small premium for Apple products solely than their stance on privacy.


+1000

BTW, Rick is worth watching. Most of his videos are of very high value for musicians.
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#2877364 - 09/06/17 04:37 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Toano88]
Synthoid Offline
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Originally Posted By: Toano88
Tim Cook who seems to care more about politics profits than running his company.


Fixed.

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Btw, i heard the top iPhone 8 will run $1200 or something. That's insane.


Yup.
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#2877367 - 09/06/17 04:50 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: kat1]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
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Originally Posted By: kat1
Can someone please tell what is the theory behind a minor chord becoming a major in a major scale like now i am playing a bollywood song called senorita which is in the key of a major but in the song there come some parts where c minor becomes c major ,f# minor becomes f# major and b minor becomes b major.Please explain the theory behind it.


Sure, the explanation is best explained by this young man



I saw you were new here, and I was being "funny". But assuming you are serious

Try starting a new thread with your theory question.
I do not have the expertise to answer your question.


Edited by I-missRichardTee (09/06/17 12:32 PM)
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#2877447 - 09/06/17 10:51 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: I-missRichardTee]
johnchop Offline
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Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 2028
Loc: Georgia, US
No doubt Apple's latest hardware directions range from frustrating to painful for folks who depend on the product line to make a living.

For hobbyists like me who use a Mac ONLY for music production, it's a bunch of shoulder-shrugging quibbles.

My music computer is an older (2011) Mac. It runs well enough for my music production needs, although more CPU-hungry VSTs and projects have me looking at upgrade options. Per Geekbench, a new iMac would yield a noticeable performance improvement, and about the only things I'd need are a Thunderbolt-to-Firewire adapter for my audio I/O, and fast storage for sample libraries.

OR I purchase an even better-spec'ed Windows PC for less and hope a Firewire PCI-e card does the trick.

-John

PS: I certainly agree with Rick that--regardless of OS--iTunes is a hot mess and has been for years. Even the iOS version went from a very straightforward music player to whatever the heck it is now. Low marks for "discoverability" in the user experience.

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#2877455 - 09/06/17 11:31 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: johnchop]
16251 Offline
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Posts: 2603
Apple needs to pay for that new circular location.

Personally, I love my iPad2, which can no longer be updated but I have all the music apps I need, so I'm good. I actually like it more now that I don't get that annoying message that iOS needs updating.

I also bought my first smart phone less than two years ago. A brand new older model - 5S. Apple said newest iOS would work on my phone but it didn't and my phone would never stay on. I ended up with a $99 Samsung and it has been great. No more annoying messages to update except for one update that was smooth as silk when updating and after updating. I miss some of intuitiveness of the iPhone but Android does everything I need.
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#2877475 - 09/06/17 12:43 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: 16251]
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 6042
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Originally Posted By: 16251
Apple needs to pay for that new circular location.

Personally, I love my iPad2, which can no longer be updated but I have all the music apps I need, so I'm good. I actually like it more now that I don't get that annoying message that iOS needs updating.

I also bought my first smart phone less than two years ago. A brand new older model - 5S. Apple said newest iOS would work on my phone but it didn't and my phone would never stay on. I ended up with a $99 Samsung and it has been great. No more annoying messages to update except for one update that was smooth as silk when updating and after updating. I miss some of intuitiveness of the iPhone but Android does everything I need.


This is OT but
2 items

I have a 3 or 4 year old iPad ( and right THERE is another example of inept naming of successive models )
You mention no more annoying notifications - Is that how it works.. basically, if you are happy with the app versions you use on older iPad.. there is zero need for messing with the older ios device. It is just eg like a dime store calculator so to speak.


You mention iPhone 5. I was just today considering using my 5 while my newer 6plus gets hopefully refurbished.
I ruined my new 6S facepalm so need a back up. Always good to have an older iPhone as a backup.

Are there any issues with using temporarily my 5??


Edited by I-missRichardTee (09/06/17 12:46 PM)
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#2877483 - 09/06/17 01:09 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: I-missRichardTee]
MotiDave Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1488
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Originally Posted By: 16251
Apple needs to pay for that new circular location.

Personally, I love my iPad2, which can no longer be updated but I have all the music apps I need, so I'm good. I actually like it more now that I don't get that annoying message that iOS needs updating.

I also bought my first smart phone less than two years ago. A brand new older model - 5S. Apple said newest iOS would work on my phone but it didn't and my phone would never stay on. I ended up with a $99 Samsung and it has been great. No more annoying messages to update except for one update that was smooth as silk when updating and after updating. I miss some of intuitiveness of the iPhone but Android does everything I need.


This is OT but
2 items

I have a 3 or 4 year old iPad ( and right THERE is another example of inept naming of successive models )
You mention no more annoying notifications - Is that how it works.. basically, if you are happy with the app versions you use on older iPad.. there is zero need for messing with the older ios device. It is just eg like a dime store calculator so to speak.


You mention iPhone 5. I was just today considering using my 5 while my newer 6plus gets hopefully refurbished.
I ruined my new 6S facepalm so need a back up. Always good to have an older iPhone as a backup.

Are there any issues with using temporarily my 5??

issues in what sense: making calls? texting? watching youtube videos? remotely guiding Trident missiles? if you use a smartphone as a typical smartphone, then no probably not. if you are doing something extraordinary ... ?

I use my iphone as an iphone and music player. i text, email, IM, FB, YT, websurf, etc. I don't think my switch from 5 to 6 mattered, 6 is better and I got 6+ which I love as i don't always have reading glasses. i can't read the 5 anymore without them.
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#2877587 - 09/06/17 11:48 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: MotiDave]
fjzingo Offline
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Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 1028
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
I agree completely with the rant iTunes, and add email, calendar and other apple software that are odd with disappearing/stuck emails and meetings. Actually use outlook and spotify instead. Also not being able to control where you're own files go, especially music files, but off course there are workarounds. The apple keyboard for ipad pro is just shit quality, its broken twice for me....the apple pen was just a gimick which I dont use anymore.

Tested my y.o. sons Chromebook which is running google scholar. Its running laps around the limited ipads. Kids are getting used to that environment, and if it will spread to universities, forget about ipads.

WRT mobile, work laptop, home tv etc I use Apple ios/os even though the support of proffesional software I use for research is declinig. l got a new iphone due to that I couldn't be bothered to learn a new system and it actually integrates well with my ipads and macbook. Recently bought a imac for music use because I couldn't be bothered to shift to a PC, you know licenses of software etc. Pure laziness......

Built a windows PC running windows 10, easy as pie and the computer works and looks great with built in leds etc. Will test that one for running cubase, if its good.....forget overpriced apple stuff.

Lets see in 5 years time if Apple turns into IBM since they're creativity and the quality of they're products is declining.
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#2877590 - 09/07/17 01:27 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: fjzingo]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 6042
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Originally Posted By: fjzingo
I agree completely with the rant iTunes, and add email, calendar and other apple software that are odd with disappearing/stuck emails and meetings. Actually use outlook and spotify instead. Also not being able to control where you're own files go, especially music files, but off course there are workarounds. The apple keyboard for ipad pro is just shit quality, its broken twice for me....the apple pen was just a gimick which I dont use anymore.

Tested my y.o. sons Chromebook which is running google scholar. Its running laps around the limited ipads. Kids are getting used to that environment, and if it will spread to universities, forget about ipads.

WRT mobile, work laptop, home tv etc I use Apple ios/os even though the support of proffesional software I use for research is declinig. l got a new iphone due to that I couldn't be bothered to learn a new system and it actually integrates well with my ipads and macbook. Recently bought a imac for music use because I couldn't be bothered to shift to a PC, you know licenses of software etc. Pure laziness......

Built a windows PC running windows 10, easy as pie and the computer works and looks great with built in leds etc. Will test that one for running cubase, if its good.....forget overpriced apple stuff.

Lets see in 5 years time if Apple turns into IBM since they're creativity and the quality of they're products is declining.


Oh, yes, I forgot about the damn calendar app native to Mac... I dislike it.

I strongly dislike entering data in it.. too limited and weird too
and the month view absolutely sucks.. not articulate maybe, but I hate looking at it.. I am never quite sure what month I am looking at.
If you own it, you know what I mean.

OT But a few days ago, YT suddenly got a "new" ( actually old ) look, more like old PC... really cheap looking.. all of a sudden, no warning.


Edited by I-missRichardTee (09/07/17 01:28 AM)
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#2877615 - 09/07/17 05:49 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: fjzingo]
RABid Offline
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Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 12054
Originally Posted By: fjzingo
...

Tested my y.o. sons Chromebook which is running google scholar. Its running laps around the limited ipads. Kids are getting used to that environment, and if it will spread to universities, forget about ipads.

...


Just ordered my first Chromebook. Will use it for blogging, gaming, and will be interested to see what music apps are available. Maybe that is a subject for another thread.
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#2877662 - 09/07/17 09:44 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: JerryA]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 10542
Originally Posted By: JerryA
Originally Posted By: tfort
Personally, I'm willing to pay a small premium for Apple products solely than their stance on privacy.


+1000

Agreed!

Best,

Geoff
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#2877675 - 09/07/17 11:19 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: I-missRichardTee]
fjzingo Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 1028
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
Exactly what is annoying me with the calendar, I have made mistakes booking meetings becuse of the looks of that calendar.

Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
Originally Posted By: fjzingo
I agree completely with the rant iTunes, and add email, calendar and other apple software that are odd with disappearing/stuck emails and meetings. Actually use outlook and spotify instead. Also not being able to control where you're own files go, especially music files, but off course there are workarounds. The apple keyboard for ipad pro is just shit quality, its broken twice for me....the apple pen was just a gimick which I dont use anymore.

Tested my y.o. sons Chromebook which is running google scholar. Its running laps around the limited ipads. Kids are getting used to that environment, and if it will spread to universities, forget about ipads.

WRT mobile, work laptop, home tv etc I use Apple ios/os even though the support of proffesional software I use for research is declinig. l got a new iphone due to that I couldn't be bothered to learn a new system and it actually integrates well with my ipads and macbook. Recently bought a imac for music use because I couldn't be bothered to shift to a PC, you know licenses of software etc. Pure laziness......

Built a windows PC running windows 10, easy as pie and the computer works and looks great with built in leds etc. Will test that one for running cubase, if its good.....forget overpriced apple stuff.

Lets see in 5 years time if Apple turns into IBM since they're creativity and the quality of they're products is declining.


Oh, yes, I forgot about the damn calendar app native to Mac... I dislike it.

I strongly dislike entering data in it.. too limited and weird too
and the month view absolutely sucks.. not articulate maybe, but I hate looking at it.. I am never quite sure what month I am looking at.
If you own it, you know what I mean.

OT But a few days ago, YT suddenly got a "new" ( actually old ) look, more like old PC... really cheap looking.. all of a sudden, no warning.
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#2877676 - 09/07/17 11:21 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: RABid]
fjzingo Offline
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Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 1028
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
My son is complaining on the lack of games......which means I am happy.:)

I havent looked into music apps for a chromebook.

Originally Posted By: RABid
Originally Posted By: fjzingo
...

Tested my y.o. sons Chromebook which is running google scholar. Its running laps around the limited ipads. Kids are getting used to that environment, and if it will spread to universities, forget about ipads.

...


Just ordered my first Chromebook. Will use it for blogging, gaming, and will be interested to see what music apps are available. Maybe that is a subject for another thread.
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#2877677 - 09/07/17 11:23 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Geoff Grace]
xKnuckles Offline
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Registered: 07/24/13
Posts: 1514
Loc: United Kingdom
I have been trying to resist getting involved in this thread, because I have moaned about apple in the past on this forum and do not wish to over egg the pudding ..... but my willpower can be less than optimum at times.....

And I have just had a bad experience with their currently USELESS email system.

I was an early adopter of the original ipad 1 and have been using ipads & - more recently - iphones since then. Incredible pieces of engineering! Mind blowing in fact. But with all that genius behind them it seems astonishing that they now work far less well in some areas than that original ipad 1 ... Emails always used to work perfectly. On my current devices 9 times out of 10 I cannot view new emails and it simply says "has not downloaded from the server..." And attempting to view emails which are part of a long conversation usually just shows me a blank screen. Indeed it is such a waste of time that I no longer bother and do all my emails on my windows Surface.

Their obsession with having devices without any ports completely mystifies me, but as a musician, I consider any device without a headphone socket to be out of the question. So there is no question of my ever upgrading my iphone 6.

I also truly loathe the way that they keep trying to force me into using the apple icloud (which I do not wish to use). Every new ios update means having to navigate a series of questions which employ double or triple negatives to trick me into accidentally agreeing to it. These tactics are unethical and leave me extremely unimpressed.

I have now switched to the surface for all of my musical & creative projects and am now even using it to display my sheet music. (It is so much better than an ipad and displays 2 pages at once! ) It is a delight to use and I love the ease of file handling etc.

I will use my phone until it dies and then swap that as well. I am so surprised that I have ended up like this as I was a huge supporter of apple for years, but I do not like where they are currently going and have no intention of going with them.
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#2877681 - 09/07/17 11:34 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: xKnuckles]
timwat Offline
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Registered: 11/21/01
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I still use both Windows and Mac in my professional and personal life.

Neither are perfect, either with regard to hardware or software.

I used to be far more emotionally invested in this discussion, but am not anymore and so saw little benefit to anyone by commenting to this thread.

But my personal perspective: these are simply tools to accomplish tasks and jobs. It is a waste of my energy to get attached, emotionally drawn to, or somehow so vested in Apple, Microsoft or any number of large multinational corporations to somehow root for them, root against them, or feel betrayed by a revision in their products.

I have my priorities: Keep my stuff secure, safe, accessible. Make it as painless as reasonable to accomplish the things I need to get done, without investing an inordinate amount of time wrestling with the technology.

Getting my emotions in a twist about any of this is as productive as getting in a twist about my Phillips head screwdriver.

Just my 0.02.

Tim
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#2877682 - 09/07/17 11:35 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Geoff Grace]
fjzingo Offline
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Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 1028
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
That is one comment I think is very interesting and agree on. There were copious amounts of commercials and crap on my kids nexus 7s years ago. i think it is better today, at least they dont complain on their plusones.

Amazon, Google, etc... are really collecting big data to use as a sales weapon against us. Actually pretty dull and uncreative way of utilising AI which off course in the end generates money, very boring.

Originally Posted By: Geoff Grace
Originally Posted By: JerryA
Originally Posted By: tfort
Personally, I'm willing to pay a small premium for Apple products solely than their stance on privacy.


+1000

Agreed!

Best,

Geoff
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#2877695 - 09/07/17 12:32 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: fjzingo]
The Real MC Offline
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Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 4561
Loc: Secluded Tranquil NY Wine Coun...
I use Windows at work since 1993 and have watched the OS get worse over time.

When Vista came out, you had to replace EVERYTHING. Computer, printers, burners, readers, EVERYTHING. Even the damn monitor. That's when I replaced my Windows computer at home with a Mac Pro. Since I had to pay out so much moola to upgrade the windows computer, I jumped ship.

I got one of the last "cheese grater" Mac Pros with twelve cores of CPU power, after Steve Jobs had died. I knew that future products were going to suffer without his direction, and with the next release of the Mac Pro I was proven correct.

A couple of years ago I happened to peek at prices of used Mac Pros. I was ASTONISHED that the twelve core model I bought new back in 2012 was commanding top dollar on the used market - almost the price I paid for it! That has NEVER happened on the used computer market before.

When Apple stood up against the government in 2015 on privacy issues, that prompted me to purchase an iPhone 6 and MacBook Pro. I loved how all devices share info such as calendar, browser bookmarks, etc. I had to turn off photo and video sharing as it was exceeding my monthly ISP data cap.

I also feel that Apple has abandoned the professional base and will keep my Mac Pro running as long as possible.

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#2877696 - 09/07/17 12:32 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: fjzingo]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 6042
Loc: S. Ca. USA
I think emotion and intellect serve purposes. Balance is the key. My emotions on Apple are fairly tepid. Without emotion on a topic, why be motivated to take the time to express it?
The Apple issues are gradually being exposed, articulated, and maybe even expanded on, all regardless of the degree of emotionality.

I appreciate all these details.. the latest being The real MC xknuckles and fjzingo

Comparative remarks are also helpful ( android Windows )

Essentially I started this thread to have an "in the near indeterminate future " exit strategy from either ios or mac or maybe not.

To say Apple sucks, is wholly incomplete.. we have to judge where we are heading
I am not over enthused about Windows either.

So openended discussion, that is minus the binary pissing contest we all are tired of from the past. Just as objective as possible when slamming Apple because the alternative may not be any better.


Edited by I-missRichardTee (09/07/17 12:37 PM)
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#2877709 - 09/07/17 12:53 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: I-missRichardTee]
RABid Offline
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Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 12054
I still use my MacBookPro for Reason and Live, but I have no desire to upgrade it to the less than desirable new offerings. Was considering a MacPro as my main DAW. I think that I realized that I was not Apple's target customer when they released the trash can. It had too many compromises to be the DAW I was looking for. Now I am very happy with my rack mount Windows DAW from Sweetwater.
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#2877798 - 09/07/17 10:50 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: timwat]
fjzingo Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 1028
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
Agree with you completely on getting emotional over things you don't have control over. OTOH this is Perhaps more "easy to say" management language used in change processes than to actually live by.

But this is about proper feedback and prediction over where technology goes.

The whitehaired guy makes this rant in a style similar to some poliliticians in media, which are not so unsuccessful. We are not supposed to discuss politics here, but we can of course make comparisons to styles of presentations and how they are accepted by the public.

I will continue to use all of my non-perfect equipment and give strong feedback what doesn't work-it's good for the company producing, if they listen -it's good for me as a customer. Look at for example how Clavia is meeting up the Nord Stage 3 feedback, Yamaha has quite a lot to learn from that. For example how you could crowd source beta testers among paying customers, without them knowing. It's not all bad.


Originally Posted By: timwat
I still use both Windows and Mac in my professional and personal life.

Neither are perfect, either with regard to hardware or software.

I used to be far more emotionally invested in this discussion, but am not anymore and so saw little benefit to anyone by commenting to this thread.

But my personal perspective: these are simply tools to accomplish tasks and jobs. It is a waste of my energy to get attached, emotionally drawn to, or somehow so vested in Apple, Microsoft or any number of large multinational corporations to somehow root for them, root against them, or feel betrayed by a revision in their products.

I have my priorities: Keep my stuff secure, safe, accessible. Make it as painless as reasonable to accomplish the things I need to get done, without investing an inordinate amount of time wrestling with the technology.

Getting my emotions in a twist about any of this is as productive as getting in a twist about my Phillips head screwdriver.

Just my 0.02.

Tim
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#2877801 - 09/07/17 10:57 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: RABid]
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 6042
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Originally Posted By: RABid
I still use my MacBookPro for Reason and Live, but I have no desire to upgrade it to the less than desirable new offerings. Was considering a MacPro as my main DAW. I think that I realized that I was not Apple's target customer when they released the trash can. It had too many compromises to be the DAW I was looking for. Now I am very happy with my rack mount Windows DAW from Sweetwater.



Ok, you mention no desire to upgrade on MBP. My MBPro is at its limit, version wise- El Capitan. Knowing that, how far into future can I expect the 2009 MBP to go? I am not even using a DAW at all. Just mild music use, Amazing Slow, iTunes, storing music, lectures, occasional voice recordings of conversations with permission from teachers... downloading music from YT ... I real pro, Sibelius 7, time machine, no DAW. HD is only half a Terabyte SSD and 8 GIG RAM .

iPhone 6 same idea, gps, notes app, calendar synced to MBP, Shazam, recorder app, Dropbox,
Just give this light user a sense that if he IS staying with Apple.. how much time is left before version limitations make moving upward increasingly pressing?
OR how he might switch?


Edited by I-missRichardTee (09/07/17 10:58 PM)
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#2878077 - 09/09/17 06:39 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: RABid]
BuckW Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/20/17
Posts: 63
Originally Posted By: RABid
I still use my MacBookPro for Reason and Live, but I have no desire to upgrade it to the less than desirable new offerings. Was considering a MacPro as my main DAW. I think that I realized that I was not Apple's target customer when they released the trash can. It had too many compromises to be the DAW I was looking for. Now I am very happy with my rack mount Windows DAW from Sweetwater.


Would you expound on the compromises?

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#2878090 - 09/09/17 07:38 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Markay Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/28/12
Posts: 2555
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
My MBPro is at its limit, version wise- El Capitan. Knowing that, how far into future can I expect the 2009 MBP to go? ....
Just give this light user a sense that if he IS staying with Apple.. how much time is left before version limitations make moving upward increasingly pressing?
OR how he might switch?

You answered your own question - El Capitan. Your are already in legacy land.

Don't give Apple a hard time. If you had a 2009 Windows laptop there is a fair chance that you would have some components that do not have Win 10 drivers or will no longer supported for OS updates beyond the current 1703 update.

Simple solution, once High Sierra is released and the dust settles on its new file system optimised for SSD, buy a new MBP.

9 years is a pretty good useful life out of any computer. Or sit tight until a component fails or you need a software package that requires Sierra or later.
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#2878436 - 09/11/17 01:16 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Markay]
I-missRichardTee Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 6042
Loc: S. Ca. USA
I often forget all my gripes with Apple. Just today, my 3-4 year old iPad ( again the labeling of iPads is beyond stupid - so I do not know, or care to know the damned name Apple gave it )
I am charging my iPad, and it refuses to charge, blinking on and off and so on.
I have spent more money on an endless array of $30 cables for both iPhone and iPad. Constantly breaking or giving issues about, this cable may not be compatible BS, and the not charging issue. I DO buy the DAMN Apple over priced, flimsy cables... and still, too too soon get these hassles.
This BS gets me angry..


Edited by I-missRichardTee (09/11/17 01:17 PM)
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#2878646 - 09/12/17 12:04 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: I-missRichardTee]
RABid Offline
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Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 12054
I just watched the end of the Apple announcement. Iphone 8 AND iPhone X. The big news, wireless charging. My Lumina had that 10 years ago.
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#2878648 - 09/12/17 12:26 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: RABid]
Joe Muscara Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
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Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 18965
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Originally Posted By: RABid
I just watched the end of the Apple announcement. Iphone 8 AND iPhone X. The big news, wireless charging. My Lumina had that 10 years ago.
The you missed the rest of it.
snax

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#2878649 - 09/12/17 12:38 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Joe Muscara]
Devnor Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/08/11
Posts: 141
My trash can Mac Pro and Logic X are a formidable setup and I cannot imagine the "pros" not being able to get on with this system.

I have my fair share of Apple issues but the studio side has been a delight. 100% satisfied.

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#2878676 - 09/12/17 02:48 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Devnor]
RABid Offline
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Posts: 12054
My issue with the trash can is the lack of internal HD storage.
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#2878759 - 09/12/17 07:44 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: RABid]
Jazz+ Offline
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Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5465
I like my iPhone 6, i got it as a refurb for $180. What's not to like?
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#2878791 - 09/13/17 02:30 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: I-missRichardTee]
JFP Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/11/13
Posts: 41
Loc: Netherlands
We'll over here in Europe it's not so much complaining about the product(s) itself as ober the price. These prices here are flat-out ridiculous.

Just an example : the current iPhone 7 starts at $ 549 = € 458 (but costs € 639 in the Netherlands !!!!) = that is € 180 more. Even when you would suggest that this $549 is without any tax in the US and add our delicious 21% sales tax to the price, the iPhone would have cost € 554 and not € 639.
Same goes for the new 8 and x and all other Apple products. If they sit on margins that are way way above what other tech companies make, than people get very annoyed. Apple appears as way to greedy (all for investors off course , customers are not important) and people simply get angry and walk away.
The iPhone, iPads and MacBooks in itself are fine products - although not revolutionary - and I love to work with them, but these prices are unsustainable . Of course Apple HQ has a deaf ear for that complaint, always has and always will have, living in their pathetic ivory tower, until they finally feel the results in a punishing way and are forced to turn; although we don't know yet if that will be too late.

Nothing in the new products is really revolutionary - facial recognition was there (what's wrong with touch ID - works like a charm and you don't have to look at your screen every-time you want to use it or do a payment ; its only there cause they couldn't integrate touch-ID in the screen), edge-to egde OLED was there, etc. Apple integrates all that very well with their own hardware and OS - so early bugs which are always there at the start - can be quickly tackled. Nothing groundbreaking , but modern, good , solid and safe products. As long as the price is right , and that ...is where it all goes wrong. Especially outside US. Apple fix the prices and shares AND sales will rise. Sit on your but and pretend the world outside doesn't exist or moves-on and you will feel the pain in the long run. I hope they will ever acknowledge that, but won't hold my breath...


Edited by JFP (09/13/17 02:33 AM)

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#2878801 - 09/13/17 04:41 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Jazz+]
Synthoid Offline
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Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 9518
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Originally Posted By: Jazz+
I like my iPhone 6, i got it as a refurb for $180. What's not to like?


thu
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#2878939 - 09/13/17 02:53 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Synthoid]
Geoff Grace Offline
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Registered: 08/13/02
Posts: 10542
Those who are unhappy with how bloated iTunes has become may be see a ray of hope in the removal of some features in the new iTunes 12.7. The iOS App Store is gone, as are ringtones. iTunes U and Internet Radio have moved locations, and iTunes for Windows lost its ability to manage books in iOS. More here:

iTunes 12.7: How to cope with the abrupt changes

Best,

Geoff
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#2879009 - 09/13/17 08:32 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Geoff Grace]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 18965
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
I just bought a 27" iMac today. This thing is amazing. Of course, my comparison is my last Mac, a 2009 MacBook Pro which I unfortunately screwed up by trying to fix something. [annoyed grunt]

Some stuff migrated via my iCloud account that I didn't expect, like rules in Mail. I didn't use Migration Assistant (because there's lots of stuff on my old Mac I no longer use and didn't want to carry over that cruft) yet I'm having an easier migration than I thought. I need to figure out how to connect the 21" monitor I have as a second monitor. It accepts a few different types of inputs so I need to figure out which one(s) will connect with Thunderbolt 3 via an adapter of course. I also need to get a Thunderbolt to Firewire adapter. The store was out of those.

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#2879024 - 09/13/17 09:58 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Geoff Grace]
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 3581
Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
Originally Posted By: Geoff Grace
Those who are unhappy with how bloated iTunes has become may be see a ray of hope in the removal of some features in the new iTunes 12.7. The iOS App Store is gone, as are ringtones. iTunes U and Internet Radio have moved locations, and iTunes for Windows lost its ability to manage books in iOS. More here:

iTunes 12.7: How to cope with the abrupt changes


While iTunes absolutely needed trimming, I am not happy with the fact that they removed ringtones.

I make my own ringtones, and if the only way is to get them over the air, I suspect that will work only for store-bought ringtones. If so, I hope someone will figure out how to upload your own tones on the iPhone.

Apple's restrictions are starting to feel more and more prohibitive.


edit:

Looks like you can still transfer ringtones from your Mac to your iOS device using iTunes.


Edited by zephonic (09/13/17 10:03 PM)
Edit Reason: incorrect
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