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#2877212 - 09/05/17 10:36 AM Your opinion on Apple critique
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 6082
Loc: S. Ca. USA


Leo LaPorte did not go this far, but he mentioned some aspects of Apple that were on the negative side.. I did not pay close attention... only got a hint. Now the above video came out a user who has stronger opinions.

And you say!?


Edited by I-missRichardTee (09/05/17 10:39 AM)
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#2877218 - 09/05/17 10:58 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: I-missRichardTee]
Toano88 Offline
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Steve Jobs died leaving the company to Tim Cook who seems to care more about politics than running his company. They really are going downhill. It's sad but true.
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#2877219 - 09/05/17 11:00 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Toano88]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
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A week later from same person who made original complaints
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#2877226 - 09/05/17 11:33 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Toano88]
AnotherScott Offline
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I thought Jobs was brilliant on aesthetic design and in marketing. Other than that--which is not insignificant, as that's probably what saved Apple--I was not a fan of much of what he did after returning to Apple. Shoehorning a Mac look and feel into his NeXT OS created a kludgey design that, to this day, is not as elegant and straight-forward in operation (nor as efficient in processing) as the earlier Mac OS it replaced, despite the aesthetic improvements (and more solid multitasking). Similarly, IMO, the iOS interface has always been an operational abomination (albeit still better than Android).

In terms of hardware, again, you can't fault the physical designs, but expansion/upgradability were always of minimal concern, and backward and forward compatibility of both hardware and software never seemed to be much of a concern under Jobs. I'm not sure Tim Cook is doing much different, he just doesn't do it with as much panache.

I will also credit Jobs with being the driving force behind the iPod and iPhone concepts, though, and of course making sure they looked good and were marketed well. OTOH, if Jobs had had his way, there would only be one size of iPad, and I think Cook's decision to approve both bigger and smaller ones was a good move.
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#2877229 - 09/05/17 11:43 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: AnotherScott]
mate stubb Online   content
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It's not just musicians fleeing newer macs. Software developers cling to their old machines as well.

Apple has decided to abandon the creative types that were their core constituency for so many years and just makes cheap consumer goods now, which they are charging premium prices for.
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#2877234 - 09/05/17 12:13 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: mate stubb]
Toano88 Offline
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Actually Scott the use of the Unix kernel allowed them to upgrade hardware much quicker with less developers. Being open source he could leverage the minds of developers worldwide. The unix kernel and bash shell also allows anyone to connect to unix servers much easier than using kludges like cygwin. After OS-X came out, government agencies like NASA started replacing Linux and Windows/cygwin and Solaris desktops. It had a rough start but in the end, I believe that was a very good decision because it got them a lot of government money at a time when they needed it.
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#2877242 - 09/05/17 12:54 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: mate stubb]
GregC Offline
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Registered: 10/26/03
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Originally Posted By: mate stubb
It's not just musicians fleeing newer macs. Software developers cling to their old machines as well.

Apple has decided to abandon the creative types that were their core constituency for so many years and just makes cheap consumer goods now, which they are charging premium prices for.



I agree with this.

I also think that its pointless to consider what individual consumers think, such as myself and the guy in that YT.

Apples stock is at $161 today. It was at $116 on Jan 4 of this year.

If Apple was that awful, their stock would not be making people rich(er) like this.

My conclusion is that Nobody Cares ( that includes Apple). Since they don't, I don't see any useful reason to get annoyed by what they do. Apple will not be replaced anytime soon.

I will cling to my 2013 MBP and 2015 Mac minis as long as possible.

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#2877257 - 09/05/17 02:02 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: GregC]
Jazz+ Offline
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#2877261 - 09/05/17 02:16 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: GregC]
tfort Offline
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Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 102
His comments re. Apple leaving old ports behind is mistaken; Steve Jobs jettisoned old ports as much/more than the current Apple. Floppies, USB, etc. It's been that way since the first Mac, and I have owned at least one since 1988 or 1989.

His comments re. FaceTime not recording? Seems to me like he had a very frustrating experience entirely of his own creation due to lack of planning/testing. He tried to record an important interview with new (to him) technology at the spur of the moment? Good luck with that. Everyone in the Mac podcast world has been recording with Skype for years. Not sure why, but I know there were some legal challenges to FaceTime that prevented it from becoming open-sourced like Jobs claimed it would be.

I've watched a lot of Rick's videos, but what is the old saying-- proper prior planning prevents piss-poor performance...?

He's not entirely wrong, imo: Apple has left its pro desktop users out in the cold the last three years or so. They seem to have had a late realization of the pitfalls of this approach and mean to rectify it with the iMac Pro and the new Mac Pro whenever it comes out in 2018. iTunes is a bit of a mess. I'm not thrilled with Photos, either.

Still, he's made a good career using Apple hardware and software. In a year or two I'd like to see if he's as happy/successful with all of his non-Apple hardware and software.

All in all, I expected a better, more reasoned argument against Apple in the pro market. As it was, the video was a rant which lowered my opinion of his judgment.

Re. his followup video: streaming music is changing the industry. I have read Apple is trying to pay artists more than Pandora and Spotify. Not sure how correct that is, but it seems like everyone is making less money than before. Regarding the App Store vs. Google Play store: Apple Store makes way more money for developers; partly because there is so much less malware and illegal copying. Lots of little details re. the 30% argument have changed regarding long-term subscriptions to apps. Also, Rick's comments about no-one using Logic on new computers-- may have some truth re. the trash can Mac Pro, but I hear lots of current love for Logic Pro X on the MacBook Pro. (https://www.apple.com/logic-pro/in-action/gregkurstin-adele/)

Personally, I'm willing to pay a small premium for Apple products solely for their stance on privacy.


Edited by tfort (09/06/17 10:56 AM)
Edit Reason: Watched 2nd video.

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#2877264 - 09/05/17 02:32 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: GregC]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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The advantage of Apple has always been that they have complete control over the hardware and the operating system. This has allowed them to provide an excellent user experience - very little required of the end user to get excellent performance, particularly with pro-level apps but also in their consumer lines.

Having a loyal user base interested in innovation has also allowed Apple to make tough decisions and roll out abrupt changes. Like the mentioned USB, Firewire, Thunderbolt all of which offered better performance but required purchase of peripherals designed to work with it. Even in the consumer line the switch from 30 pin to Lightning offered speed improvements and sleeker design. Apple was able to change from PowerPC to Intel. If they need to or want to change processors because they see a performance, battery life or other gain over the roadmap they are on, they can do so and their user base will follow.

Apple literally moved their users and developers over to the Unix based OSX in a transition that was seamless for end users. The move single handedly brought over a flood of software developers to the platform and the app store. OSX offered amazingly stable performance, included core audio and midi services that had never been a priority for Microsoft. Apple purchased eMagic, users of Logic for OS9 were brought over to the first version of Logic for OSX without cost. Apple slashed the cost of a professional DAW to $199 - compared to say Cubase ($579.99 or Pro Tools $299 and $99 a year, etc.). Apple brought us the amazing Mainstage. And despite the company being massively successful in the consumer lines, they allow the pro audio division to continue to update and develop Logic and Mainstage much to their users' applause.

iOS is the creative professionals mobile OS. Android has been playing catch up since the first iPad appeared regarding midi and audio services and developers have flocked to the platform and continue to push what the hardware can do with music performance applications and peripherals.

I don't know guys. The grass is always greener on the other side but I haven't seen Apple's commitment to music fade at all since Jobs' passing. A successful platform is one that makes money for Apple, their software and peripheral developers, and fulfills their end users' needs and desires - sometimes before they even know they have them. We can whine about the upgrade cycle, and the technology (and port) changes, and the cost - but hopefully if we are using this stuff professionally/creatively it is also earning us money. Or at the very least bringing us creative satisfaction making music. Like anything else, purchase wisely, stay within your budget and don't upgrade or update unless you see an advantage to doing so or you can afford it.

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#2877281 - 09/05/17 03:26 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: ElmerJFudd]
zxcvbnm098 Offline
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Loc: Southern Calif.
Not perfect, but still my choice by a mile. Customer service is second to none, and it's still the only platform that makes sense for my family.....since I'm the IT person of the household.

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#2877285 - 09/05/17 04:08 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: zxcvbnm098]
David Emm Offline
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Registered: 09/14/12
Posts: 975
Loc: Oz. Its too damned green.
I respond by putting my fingers in my ears and singing the LA LA LA song. I started on a PowerMac and have never looked back, because STABILITY. I found Windows' housekeeping overload paradigm insulting. By contrast, every Mac I've had was still running fine when I upgraded and each upgrade has made life progressively simpler. Logic has become so complete for my needs, I'm gobsmacked by it. Their hardware quality control and customer service frankly kick other companies to the curb. I'm not deaf to part of the complaints. It was a real loss when Mac Minis could no longer have their hard disks upgraded, as it closed the door on a cheaper power option. Synth companies "bug" us all the time by not hewing to 100% of our whims. You jump on the upgrade-go-round at a hopeful point, you hustle to update and upgrade to fit the new setup and then get on with it. My response to the more brittle hollering: so what. I have a wealth of musical means, I'm not in the path of a hurricane and I do not live in Somalia. A certain amount of friction is inevitable, but as Charles Ives said, "Let him take his dissonance like a man." keys
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#2877291 - 09/05/17 04:42 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: GregC]
OB Dave Offline
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Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 949
Loc: San Diego CA, US
Originally Posted By: GregC
Apples stock is at $161 today. It was at $116 on Jan 4 of this year.
If Apple was that awful, their stock would not be making people rich(er) like this


Kind of a dumb argument, if you ask me. I can name a dozen awful dotcom companies whose market valuation is bereft of the reality that they've never made a profit and probably never will. Apple at least is very profitable, but their product line is getting worse, not better.

The guy in the video is on a rant, but he makes a lot of good points. It's also worth pointing out that things were not perfect under Steve "there's nothing wrong with your phone, you're just holding it wrong" Jobs, but things do seem to be getting worse now. A lot worse. iTunes is without a doubt the worst, buggiest POS software that I use on a regular basis. iOS is full of irritating bugs, as is iMessage. iCloud sync works most of the time, but fails often enough to be an irritation. I wish Apple would take a year off to fix all these stupid and persistent bugs instead of releasing crap nobody is asking for (thinner phones, Alexa knockoff devices, wireless earbuds).

I don't see a viable alternative though. OSX is rock solid, and integration between it and iOS, despite its many quirks, is lightyears ahead of the Android world. And at least we have some cause to believe Apple doesn't spy on is, which certainly is not the case for Google & Android.

To abuse a Churchill quote: Apple devices are the worst, except for all the others.

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#2877292 - 09/05/17 05:01 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: OB Dave]
Husker Offline
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Is this the point where I say how much I despise Apple, hate IOS, and love Android?
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#2877293 - 09/05/17 05:12 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: I-missRichardTee]
CowboyNQ Offline
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Registered: 06/14/15
Posts: 616
Loc: Adelaide, Australia
Originally Posted By: I-missRichardTee
And you say!?

I think he has some valid points, although I suspect he attributes too much of what irks him to the change in leadership at the company.

But I also like Apple gear, at our house we have iPhones and iPads out the wazoo, along with resident tech support (two teenage sons). And I love my ever reliable but now ancient iPad2 that joins me on stage in one of my bands. FWIW, I also like Windows 10.


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#2877297 - 09/05/17 05:32 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: OB Dave]
GregC Offline
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Registered: 10/26/03
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Originally Posted By: OB Dave
Originally Posted By: GregC
Apples stock is at $161 today. It was at $116 on Jan 4 of this year.
If Apple was that awful, their stock would not be making people rich(er) like this


Kind of a dumb argument, if you ask me. I can name a dozen awful dotcom companies whose market valuation is bereft of the reality that they've never made a profit and probably never will. Apple at least is very profitable, but their product line is getting worse, not better.

.


Big money, investor money is always the bottom line. Nothing dumb about that.

And Apple is not a dot com. Non valid comparison. Apple obviously has been successful in the investor arena, the ultimate marketplace, for decades.

I realize many of us are absorbed with our personal observations about Apple, tech, etc.

from my observation, Apple is not going to read your opinion about the product line getting worse. Or mine.

If it was that bad, the investors would be agreeing with you. They obviously have little concern about the product line.

I am not defending Apple. I have my list of gripes. But they do not care.

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#2877302 - 09/05/17 06:24 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: GregC]
Geoff Grace Offline
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His complaints seem to center around FaceTime and iTunes and the fact that one of his Macs died. I use FaceTime only a little, so I can't really comment on that; but I use iTunes a lot and I like some of the features he dismissed—particularly the radio feature, which I listen to often. I'll grant that iTunes could use a simplified interface option for casual users, though, perhaps like the one Logic has to make it look and behave more like Garage Band.

That said, my great experiences with Apple far outnumber the bad ones. Just last month, they gave me a free Magic wireless keyboard when my old one died, just because my MacBook Pro had an AppleCare plan. Never mind that I couldn't remember whether or not I bought it at the same time as my Mac.

I notice that few of his complaints related to the platform for music production. He only ranted about the ever-evolving interface standards and lack of user-configurability. While I was bothered at first about the latter of those issues, I've found that I'm happy with my MacBook Pro as is. In fact, I've had fewer problems with it than any other Mac—and I've been a user since 1990. When I recently upgraded my copy of TechTool Pro, I wondered if I was throwing away my money. I haven't had the need to use this once crucial app for years now.

In the meantime, the "It just works" slogan Mac users have said for years has never been more true than now in my experience. As always, YMMV.

Best,

Geoff
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#2877304 - 09/05/17 06:33 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Geoff Grace]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Funny that it's 2017 and this debate still goes on. Just tools. We pick what works and get on with our day. Heck there are guys using iPads as their sound engine which I am just not ready to do - but if it works for them. <shrug> Just another computing device that does what you need in a way that works for you, and that's that.
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#2877305 - 09/05/17 06:50 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Geoff Grace]
RABid Online   content
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Is Samsung the new Apple? I see more and more young people using Samsung phones. Recent Apple innovations include things like no headphone jack and removing the home button. Recent Samsung innovations include things like affordable VR glasses to connect to the phone.
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#2877307 - 09/05/17 07:09 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: RABid]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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They are definitely Apple's #1 competitor as far as phones go. And realistically you can go that route unless we're talking about music performance as we do here. There really isn't any reason to choose Android over iOS for that purpose if you are starting from scratch (no investment in either).
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#2877309 - 09/05/17 07:29 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Toano88]
Marzzz Offline
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Registered: 11/24/00
Posts: 2337
Loc: Scottsdale, AZ
Originally Posted By: Toano88
Tim Cook seems to care more about politics than running his company.
Yes, this. Cook's forté was the supply operations of Apple, fortunately there are still many creatives (Jony Ive, etc.) who keep trying to come up with innovative designs. But I really wish Cook would STFU about a lot of the things he likes to talk about...

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#2877313 - 09/05/17 07:39 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: RABid]
MotiDave Offline
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Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1519
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
This reads a lot like the comments about new keyboards. Every new keyboard is missing something that someone here wants. Every keyboard is a slap to the face of some expert user who knows better than the manufacturer what it should really be. And there's the rub - There is no magical universal widget that uniformly satisfies every possible user.

Apple does not satisfy the most tech-savvy on purpose not because they hate you or can't hear you. Its because there are too few of you. My mom loves her iPhone iPod and ipad. She can barely use her new Win10 laptop, we had to set her up with email, contacts, printer etc. she was able to do everything she wants on her apple products without help.

She doesn't like android phones. Too complicated smile. I don't think they are harder, just different. My 2c is a lot of people have androids because carriers give them away with a contract commitment. iPhones you get a discount but not free. (I think?)

Does apple risk losing share as more and more young kids are so tech savvy? Maybe ... beats me. They bought Beats, which we all know here sucks. All I know is when Apple stock was at $105 in January, I called my broker and said uh, this apple stock is flapping on the pavement like the fish in Faith No More's "Epic". He said lets hang on for a bit, i think it will move. His best call in the last 10 yrs.
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#2877314 - 09/05/17 07:40 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: MotiDave]
MotiDave Offline
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Loc: San Diego, CA USA
Btw, i heard the top iPhone 8 will run $1200 or something. That's insane.
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#2877326 - 09/05/17 08:32 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: OB Dave]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11224
Originally Posted By: Toano88
Actually Scott the use of the Unix kernel allowed...

I'm not denying there are technical advantages, especially in multi-user environments. But in many ways, OS X still provides the individual user an inferior user experience to the older MacOS, IMO. I think it's generally more complicated, and more difficult to troubleshoot. (Also slower on the same hardware, though there is no longer any hardware that runs both).

Originally Posted By: OB Dave
To abuse a Churchill quote: Apple devices are the worst, except for all the others.

Bingo.
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#2877327 - 09/05/17 08:32 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: MotiDave]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Samsung Galaxy Note 8 is already $1k. This is where the endless upgrade and need for latest most innovative features has pushed us. Not a price point for the cash strapped. But that's not the customer they are after. Trickle down and yester-year models for the rest of us.

In fact they're all already working on what replaces the phone. Probably contact lenses synced to your watch with augmented reality user interface.
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#2877342 - 09/05/17 11:07 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Geoff Grace]
zephonic Offline
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Registered: 10/06/05
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Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
Originally Posted By: Geoff Grace
That said, my great experiences with Apple far outnumber the bad ones.


+1

I could bore everyone here to death with everything I think is wrong with Apple, but the over-all experience is still a largely positive one.
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#2877347 - 09/05/17 11:58 PM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: zephonic]
kat1 Offline
Member

Registered: 09/04/17
Posts: 4
Loc: india
Can someone please tell what is the theory behind a minor chord becoming a major in a major scale like now i am playing a bollywood song called senorita which is in the key of a major but in the song there come some parts where c minor becomes c major ,f# minor becomes f# major and b minor becomes b major.Please explain the theory behind it.
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#2877353 - 09/06/17 02:57 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: tfort]
JerryA Offline
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Registered: 08/02/00
Posts: 6976
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: tfort
Personally, I'm willing to pay a small premium for Apple products solely than their stance on privacy.


+1000

BTW, Rick is worth watching. Most of his videos are of very high value for musicians.
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#2877364 - 09/06/17 04:37 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: Toano88]
Synthoid Offline
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Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Originally Posted By: Toano88
Tim Cook who seems to care more about politics profits than running his company.


Fixed.

Originally Posted By: MotiDave
Btw, i heard the top iPhone 8 will run $1200 or something. That's insane.


Yup.
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#2877367 - 09/06/17 04:50 AM Re: Your opinion on Apple critique [Re: kat1]
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Registered: 09/04/11
Posts: 6082
Loc: S. Ca. USA
Originally Posted By: kat1
Can someone please tell what is the theory behind a minor chord becoming a major in a major scale like now i am playing a bollywood song called senorita which is in the key of a major but in the song there come some parts where c minor becomes c major ,f# minor becomes f# major and b minor becomes b major.Please explain the theory behind it.


Sure, the explanation is best explained by this young man



I saw you were new here, and I was being "funny". But assuming you are serious

Try starting a new thread with your theory question.
I do not have the expertise to answer your question.


Edited by I-missRichardTee (09/06/17 12:32 PM)
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