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A little sad… is this all worth it? #2876334
09/01/17 02:19 PM
09/01/17 02:19 PM
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dalpozlead Offline OP
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dalpozlead  Offline OP
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This definitely wont break my current GAS (recently bought Keyscape and I’m loving it), but after reviewing many cases and watching great youtube videos (Hans Zimmer, JunkieXL, etc) I’ve concluded that only minority of composers uses Libraries/VSTs (orchestral, pianos, maybe voices) for big productions.
Honestly I don’t know how this works for TV series, documentaries or other medium production, but: Does having all of those great libraries/VSTS serves for anything other than medium productions? Or is this just made for the composers to show Directors the final cut and then re-recording with real instruments…?

Last edited by dalpozlead; 09/01/17 02:20 PM.
KC Island
Re: A little sad… is this all worth it? [Re: dalpozlead] #2876360
09/01/17 04:01 PM
09/01/17 04:01 PM
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Chicago/NW Indiana
zeronyne Offline
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zeronyne  Offline
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Well, let me ask you this: if you were commissioned to score a movie with a seven or eight figure budget, and you wanted your contribution to be of the caliber of the visuals, would you spend your money and time carefully tweaking every midi velocity and modulation stream to closely approximate an orchestra, or would you hire a group of seasoned studio veterans who know what they are doing and are very cognizant of timelines and budgets as well as being monster players? There is no argument that orchestral softsynths are usable and practical, but it comes down to opportunity cost and options. I would posit that it is entirely possible that is it CHEAPER to hire an orchestra than to spend the time perfecting an orchestral track with a DAW.

That said, I can tell you from firsthand observation of several large productions that VSTs are used quite often and make it into the final stems. And most TV shows use music libraries, which is another animal altogether.


"For instance" is not proof.
Re: A little sad… is this all worth it? [Re: zeronyne] #2876371
09/01/17 04:47 PM
09/01/17 04:47 PM
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Rally Offline
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I believe the libraries/VST are being employed in a wide range of uses from TV to movies and anything in between. What I have read and seen in interviews, studio musicians are still being used but in fewer numbers. The studio tracking is blended with the VST to give a realistic sound. Perhaps instead of 60 piece symphonic string section you hire a 21 piece chamber ensemble (or less) and use VST to fill the other slots. Are there soundtracks with no VST, of course but there are no hard and fast rules to dictate how a producer ends up with a finished product.

Last edited by Rally; 09/01/17 04:50 PM.
Re: A little sad… is this all worth it? [Re: Rally] #2876447
09/01/17 09:19 PM
09/01/17 09:19 PM
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Florida
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Stokely Offline
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I'm just a hobbyist with no dreams of making it big, but I can empathize if it seems like the tools we are using aren't what the big guys use.

However, it makes me think of something I heard or read about the last Who album with Keith Moon...and specifically the song Who are You. It was with the producer, who was an assistant but ended up being made the main producer when the main guy was fired/quit...suffice it to say it was a rocky situation with the band and between the band and everyone else by then. Anyway, the point is, they ended up actually using tracks from Pete's demo tracks he did at his home studio (!) . Obviously that's waaay before the fancy tools we have now. I guess my point would be, if the end result is great maybe it doesn't matter what tools were used to make it.

Re: A little sad… is this all worth it? [Re: Stokely] #2876461
09/01/17 10:23 PM
09/01/17 10:23 PM
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USA, greater NY area
ElmerJFudd Offline
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@ OP, your conclusions are inaccurate. You would be surprised at the number of composers and production houses that are using sample libraries, virtual orchestras, VST synths, etc. etc. at every level. It's not the tools, it's the desired results. You might also be surprised, or not, to know that these technologies are also mixed with live acoustic performances to breath some "life" into the recordings.

If you are actively composing in the classic sense and using notation software and you haven't the funds to invest in something like VSL - they do offer a " scoring bundle " which can get you started. Or you can have your compositions performed as one offs or small collections by a service like, Ravel Virtual Studios. Depending on how detailed you were in your scoring, they can present some excellent representations of your compositions for demos as you search for work.


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: A little sad… is this all worth it? [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2876499
09/02/17 04:41 AM
09/02/17 04:41 AM
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Southern California
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Jazzmammal Offline
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I've read enough about this subject to know that the people use are really doing it and getting paid well to do it have degrees in music production from the most prestigious colleges in the world.

YES, THERE ARE EXCEPTIONS. I see some of you jumping up to write about some guy who learned it all himself. Wonderful, now go back to sleep. To be able to understand all this and even begin to ask the right questions you need to be enrolled in one of those schools right now.

Bottom line, this software is being used all over the place from small productions to TV shows to Broadway shows to Vegas shows to movie soundtracks to the biggest names in touring acts.

Bob


Hammond SK1, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
Re: A little sad… is this all worth it? [Re: Jazzmammal] #2876601
09/02/17 02:57 PM
09/02/17 02:57 PM
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Wash DC Area
ProfD Offline
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There are so many requirements for incidental music and budgets big and small that everything is being utilized in terms of KBs, software and real musicians.

IMO, it really comes down to being the lucky soul to get the work. If one already has the skills to compose music, the more worthwhile pursuit is spending less time with GAS and more time networking with the folks in a position to hire composers. cool


PD

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"
Re: A little sad… is this all worth it? [Re: ProfD] #2876606
09/02/17 03:06 PM
09/02/17 03:06 PM
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Concord,CA,UNITED STATES
timwat Offline
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timwat  Offline
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Prof - nail on head.

IMHO, the music business is the business of music. And while the entry point of business (in any industry) is proving technical competency (they trust you can do the work), longevity in business is all about reputation, relationships, trust and being able to work well with others.

Some people call that side of business "networking", which is as good a term as any (until it gets broadened to basically embrace just about anything - an unfortunate but unsurprising outcome...words bandied about and redefined until they don't mean anything).

At just about every level of business, or any kind, so much more of hiring decision go into trusting the person. The tools used become a tertiary consideration.

While in art (and commercial music production, specifically), stylistic and genre considerations are more important than in, say, accounting, it's still about both the product and the relationships.

my 0.02


"I'm not just untalented. I'm multi untalented."
Re: A little sad… is this all worth it? [Re: Jazzmammal] #2876611
09/02/17 03:30 PM
09/02/17 03:30 PM
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Posts: 7,598
S. Ca. USA
I-missRichardTee Offline
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"Is this all worth it?" Nihilism is a natural reaction to the circumstances we often find ourselves in. It takes a powerful act of will to resist that tendency, and do it, in spite of it all. I hope I did not misread your thought.. But to be a serious musician takes everything we've got. I struggle with this all the time.


You don't have ideas, ideas have you
We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement
Re: A little sad… is this all worth it? [Re: I-missRichardTee] #2876674
09/02/17 09:29 PM
09/02/17 09:29 PM
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David Emm Offline
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Of course its worth it. "If I were to begin life again, I would devote it to music. It is the only cheap and unpunished rapture upon earth." ~ Sydney Smith

You should also consider the high number of times in musical history where demigods were made and certain performances became legendary, employing minimal or very basic gear. You could argue against the term 'cheap' when you are facing a need for $1259 worth of SSDs, but now more than ever, there's no real barrier to virtually anything you may have in mind. There's the rub, as always.

Timwat adds a key point to it: you need to schmooze well at the buffet table. You can be a 'Genius' at home on your own dime. Otherwise, give yourself over to what the band or project need. Its not only much of the point in bothering, but you'll be amazed at the kinds of fun and learning you'll derive from it. Many of the better things you can do will pop up in collaborations where they'd never appear solo. Whether you're doing a student video soundtrack gratis or a film soundtrack, that's one thing that doesn't change.


"Some people crave baseball. I find this unfathomable: however, I do understand how someone could get excited about playing a bassoon." ~ Frank Zappa

https://soundcloud.com/david-emm-1
Re: A little sad… is this all worth it? [Re: David Emm] #2876732
09/03/17 07:42 AM
09/03/17 07:42 AM
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St. Louis, MO
J. Dan Offline
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J. Dan  Offline
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Do what makes you happy. Period. To each their own. Not to take this OT, but I'm 46 and many of my fellow musicians my age have died over the last few years, and too many from suicide. Really sucks, but I get it. Some of you remember maybe 5-6 years ago when I was kind of flakey on here. Honestly, if not for my kids, I would have been suicidal. I'm doing a walk and trying to raise some money for awareness for those of you who are friends with me on FB - I'm not going to over push it or anything,


But my overall point in the grand scheme of things is that it's really more important to be happy in life and do what brings you pleasure. I really mean that. We all have a tendency to lose track of what's really important to us.

So, is it worth it? Why are you asking us? Will it make you happy? What's that worth. Why would you care what I think?


Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.
Re: A little sad… is this all worth it? [Re: J. Dan] #2876928
09/04/17 12:42 AM
09/04/17 12:42 AM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 7,598
S. Ca. USA
I-missRichardTee Offline
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Originally Posted By: J. Dan
Do what makes you happy. Period. To each their own. Not to take this OT, but I'm 46 and many of my fellow musicians my age have died over the last few years, and too many from suicide. Really sucks, but I get it. Some of you remember maybe 5-6 years ago when I was kind of flakey on here. Honestly, if not for my kids, I would have been suicidal. I'm doing a walk and trying to raise some money for awareness for those of you who are friends with me on FB - I'm not going to over push it or anything,


But my overall point in the grand scheme of things is that it's really more important to be happy in life and do what brings you pleasure. I really mean that. We all have a tendency to lose track of what's really important to us.

So, is it worth it? Why are you asking us? Will it make you happy? What's that worth. Why would you care what I think?


Though a prominent member here strongly disagrees.. Dr Jordan Peterson
talks deeply about nihilism and how we might deal with it. He takes both sides of an argument, thus..
He argues FOR being nihilistic, but also shows you the way OUT of nihilism.

I am glad you decided to stick around Sir. Nihilism is a dirty rotten to the core lie..
it is very easy to think that way. After listening to Peterson go on and on about it.. I realized how much in the grip of nihilism I was. I am still fighting it.
And nihilism is at, or damned close to, the root of questioning something the OP had felt passionately about -- is it worth it? This is a manifestation of nihilism .
I have hated nihilism my whole life; so readily seeing it on the media, yet not realizing it had grabbed me from within.
It is a term that is not commonly heard, which makes it all the more dangerous.
Nihilism and highly related to it, resentment, are behind so many disconcerting things we see in society,

Last edited by I-missRichardTee; 09/04/17 08:31 PM.

You don't have ideas, ideas have you
We see the world, not as it is, but as we are. "One mans food is another mans poison". I defend your right to speak hate. Tolerance to a point, not agreement

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