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#2900250 - 01/07/18 09:03 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Electro Fan]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6317
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Originally Posted By: Electro Fan
I appreciate Tom and Jim’s perspectives on the keybed of the SP6. As ElmerJFudd stated, we should all try it for ourselves, unfortunately in my situation this not really an option. No retailer in my state will carry this keyboard, and with the exception of purchasing from a retailer with a good return policy and the willingness to ship it back, I will need to use feedback from places like KC to inform my decision making.

Many of mentioned the plastic vs metal construction issue. For me, the low weight is a priority, so I am willing to settle for the plastic chassis. When you take a 40lb board and carry it in a 20lb + hard shell case, the weight going up and down stairs or in and out of long load ins, becomes a challenge. I have gigged for last few years with my plastic Px-5s and have never had any issues related construction materials.




The disappearing shops and the lack of choices on showroom floors is a frustrating part of our times. I wonder if there’s a business opportunity for someone to open try-before-you-buy locations with well represented showrooms and charge a cover at the door? I know I’d gladly pay $10 to try out keys at a players’ hangout over ordering stuff just to ship back.
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#2900271 - 01/07/18 10:43 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
ewall08530 Offline
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Registered: 11/09/04
Posts: 726
Shortly after my post Dave replied and provided me with his custom sounds for the SP6
Thanks Dave Weiser!!

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#2900283 - 01/07/18 12:21 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
sleepngbear Offline
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Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 580
Loc: RI
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
It’s not just about price, guys. There’s a market for getting weight down that meets the needs of gigging keyboard players that carry their own stuff to/from/in and around all sorts of venues. SP6 gets 88k weighted action down to 27.25lbs. Casio PX-5S is 24lbs. CP4 which is generally picked for better feeling action already jumps up to 38.58lbs. Nord Electro 5HP has to cut size down to 73keys and swap out the TP-40L for the lame TP-100/HP to make 25.13lbs. So, at the moment the nice playing actions are heavier - although, to me, the Casio action is acceptable compromise.

Very true -- it's all about what different players are willing to compromise.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
But maybe in the not too distant future the developers will start to experiment with materials other than plastic and aluminum.

Carbon fiber! That wouldn't add too much to the price, would it? laugh
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#2900308 - 01/07/18 01:40 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sleepngbear]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6317
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Ha ha. Carbon fiber. smile exactly.
What some strong light weight materials can do for an action and build quality of the case would be astounding. I’m sure if it!

Kawai thinks so too, albeit on some very expensive instruments!
http://www.kawaius.com/technology/carbon_fiber-technology.html



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#2900534 - 01/08/18 10:16 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
TomKittel Offline
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Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 585
Talking about a SP6 or Forte sound module... it seems that Dexibell (formerly Roland) listened. Look here (english subtitles):

https://youtu.be/pCf-A0K3XM8

No longer is Nord the only company to offer free downloadable piano libraries and more.
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#2900607 - 01/08/18 01:14 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Loc: USA, greater NY area
What’s the lightest TP-40 stage piano they have in the lineup?
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#2900620 - 01/08/18 01:43 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
What’s the lightest TP-40 stage piano they have in the lineup?

I think it's the S7 at 38.6 lbs...?
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#2900691 - 01/08/18 05:11 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Ok so, $1799 for a TP-40 and the Dexibel sound engine in a 38.6lbs package.
Priced the same as the MP7SE at 46lbs.
But the Yamaha CP4 is $1999.99 at 38.5lbs.

That’s a rough neighborhood to be in right now.
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#2900695 - 01/08/18 05:51 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
sherry Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 152
This is going to sound really shallow, but I'm really having a hard time coming to grips with the design of the SP6. I want to like this board in the worst way, and I may end up picking one up, but damn, what the hell were they thinking in the design? It's 6 inches in height. It looks two ping-pong paddles on the back of this board. I thought the design of the PC3, PC3K all looked professional but the SP6 -- Ummm, we'll see. And don't get me started on a case for this thing. I really like the weight of the SP6 and this old geezer might just have to put up with the funky-azz design.


Edited by sherry (01/08/18 05:52 PM)

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#2900699 - 01/08/18 06:28 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sherry]
jpkeys Offline
Member

Registered: 08/25/09
Posts: 23
Loc: NJ, USA
Originally Posted By: sherry
And don't get me started on a case for this thing.

The Gator GKB-88 SLIM gig bag or GK-88 SLIM case should fit it perfectly. At least that's what I'm hoping. Have the case, waiting for the SP6.

SP6: 52.5" x 15" x 5.75"
GKB-88 SLIM: 53" x 15" x 6"
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#2900701 - 01/08/18 06:40 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: jpkeys]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Loc: USA, greater NY area
Is it really that odd shaped? idk

Casio PX-560: 52” 11.5” 5.8”

Yamaha CP4: 52.44” 13.86” 6.34”
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#2900703 - 01/08/18 06:46 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sherry]
Dave Weiser Offline
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Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1298
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: sherry
This is going to sound really shallow, but I'm really having a hard time coming to grips with the design of the SP6. I want to like this board in the worst way, and I may end up picking one up, but damn, what the hell were they thinking in the design? It's 6 inches in height. It looks two ping-pong paddles on the back of this board. I thought the design of the PC3, PC3K all looked professional but the SP6 -- Ummm, we'll see. And don't get me started on a case for this thing. I really like the weight of the SP6 and this old geezer might just have to put up with the funky-azz design.


When I heard that the SP6 had a plastic enclosure I already had my skeptic hat on when I came by R&D to audition the prototype. I scoffed at what you rightly describe as the two paddle thingies on the rear panel.

And then I played it and loved it. And then I picked the sucker up and my head popped off. In a good way. smile That narrow bit in the middle is meant for gripping the thing and they totally nailed it.

I do wish it were a tiny bit less tall. I believe the height is needed to accommodate the action's hammer mechanism. For me a little more height was a fair price to pay for the triple win of cost/feel/weight.

Regarding the TP40L comparisons:
Comparing the Medeli action to the TP40L is going to be tough - it's an asymmetrical comparison. The TP40L is literally my favorite action of all time. Not only is the TP40L a lot more expensive and moderately heavier, it also requires metal mounting brackets and a whole different approach to enclosure design.

It's like comparing a new Kia automobile to a BMW 5 series. Of course the BMW is going to feel much nicer. wink That doesn't mean that the Kia isn't a great value.

A more appropriate comparison would be the Fatar TP100 (used in Artis88, ForteSE and Nord HP models). The TP100 is still heavier and more expensive, but at least it's in a closer ballpark. In my opinion the Medeli spanks the TP100, kills it, and is less noisy.

Others might have differing opinions, as some of this stuff can be subjective. Just thought it might be helpful to get a little context from a keyboard dork who's spent a million hours auditioning and evaluating actions.


Edited by Dave Weiser (01/08/18 06:48 PM)

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#2900771 - 01/09/18 03:56 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
eclipse69 Offline
Member

Registered: 08/23/17
Posts: 11
Loc: East Europe, Bulgaria
Originally Posted By: TomKittel
I am rather underwhelmed by the SP6 which I received earllier this week.The plastic casing squeeked ad creeked when I unboxed it and put it on a keyboard stand. Never experienced that with other plastic casings like CP4 or PX5S. In contrast my PC3X or the Artis 7 are built like tanks.

Then I played the SP6 next to my PC3X. By direct comparison the Medeli keyboard felt heavier and somehow doughy to me. And it is way more noisy which is due to the plastic casing I guess. While still quite playable I didn’t like the keybed. Then I played the SP6 from the PC3 via Midi. It immediately became apparent to me how much better the TP40L is. No comparison. The SP6‘s sounds played from the PC3 are a real pleasure, Dave‘s soundset in particular (thanks again!). But I missed an EQ with the APs. Some sounds like the Rhodes programs have a "built-in" EQ. In contrast the APs do not have any EQ. This should be fixed in a future update.

All in all, the SP6 said to me: "what you pay is what you get." It is a compromise. A powerful sound engine on the cheap. Great sounds combined with a not so great keybed in a cheap casing. The higher price of the Forte SE is more than justified in my opinion. Kurzweil should put the SP6 engine into a desktop or rack module and offer it for under a grand. I bet that it would be a hot seller.


Very interesting comment, I think the same, what is your opinion about PC3LE?
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#2900772 - 01/09/18 04:02 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
Electro Fan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 454
Loc: Maine
Dave,

Thanks for your perspectives on both the design decisions and keybed comparisons. I know that as I am on the verge of adding the SP6 to my rig, it is helpful for me to keep in mind that if I am looking at keeping the weight low, I will sacrifice something in regard to the keybed used.

BTW, I just found that Dave posted a couple of short demos of the SP6 piano and rhodes sounds. Great playing Dave and more videos are most welcomed.

Bill
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#2900786 - 01/09/18 05:22 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Electro Fan]
TomKittel Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 585
Dave, could you comment on the missing EQ for AP sounds? Any chance for a future OS update where EQ will be implemented to AP Sounds in a similar way as to Rhodes sounds? Any reason why EQ was omitted from AP sounds?

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#2900801 - 01/09/18 06:41 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
teashea Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/24/17
Posts: 196
Originally Posted By: TomKittel
Talking about a SP6 or Forte sound module... it seems that Dexibell (formerly Roland) listened. Look here (english subtitles):

https://youtu.be/pCf-A0K3XM8

No longer is Nord the only company to offer free downloadable piano libraries and more.


I am a big fan of Dexibell. They have taken a somewhat different approach to their instruments. All of them use the same basic engine - a quad core processor that can handle 320 oscillators and unlimited polyphony. The build quality is excellent and the sounds are quite fine. I think that they have the best piano sounds of anything I have heard. The controls are well designed.
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#2900822 - 01/09/18 08:05 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
Dave Weiser Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1298
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: TomKittel
Dave, could you comment on the missing EQ for AP sounds? Any chance for a future OS update where EQ will be implemented to AP Sounds in a similar way as to Rhodes sounds? Any reason why EQ was omitted from AP sounds?


I just took a look... The EQ parameters are actually in each piano program, they're just not hooked up to the knobs by default. Personally I would like them on the top row of knobs by default.

The good news is that it's very easy to assign to the knobs once, and then you have them forever. Hit Edit. You'll see a list of 4 parameters that correspond to the top 4 knobs. Select a parameter and then scroll until you see EQ parameters for Bass, Mid, Mid Freq and Treble. The list you scroll through is not long. Takes literally 30 seconds per program, literally the opposite of deep editing.

I have asked my buddies at Kurz if they might possibly be able to add this in an OS update. But for now shouldn't be a big deal as it's so easy to hook up.

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#2900824 - 01/09/18 08:19 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Loc: USA, greater NY area
like
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#2900912 - 01/09/18 01:50 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
guzman Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/02/04
Posts: 82
Loc: Seattle
This is why I placed my SP6 order from Dave Weiser. What a stand up dude. Best support in the business.


Edited by guzman (01/09/18 01:51 PM)
Edit Reason: Typo

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#2900984 - 01/09/18 06:16 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
jahfume Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 50
Loc: Oxon

So Tom, Have you warmed at all towards the Medeli keybed?

If the keys are making the chassis sound - this can be alleviated by sticking some dampening foam to the (inside)flat areas.Also the felt under the keys could be swapped for a thicker type? And while you are in there - tighten up all them screws. laugh

Send the bill to Kurzweil R n D.

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#2900996 - 01/09/18 07:28 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: jahfume]
TomKittel Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 585
Originally Posted By: jahfume

So Tom, Have you warmed at all towards the Medeli keybed?

If the keys are making the chassis sound - this can be alleviated by sticking some dampening foam to the (inside)flat areas.Also the felt under the keys could be swapped for a thicker type? And while you are in there - tighten up all them screws. laugh

Send the bill to Kurzweil R n D.


No warning. The Medeli still serves it‘s purpose. Keybeds are very subjective. Maybe my expectations were to high. All I would suggest is try before you buy.
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#2901016 - 01/09/18 10:22 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
niacin Offline
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Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 1322
Loc: down under
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I was digging a bit today, so Medeli makes an app. 30lbs stage piano - SP4200 and a 5500. Would it be safe to assume this is the action Kurzweil has acquired for the SP6?

My guess (though I've seen no way to confirm it) is that the SP6 will have the same action as their KA90 (which is similar if not identical to the Medeli SP4000). That action feels kind of like the Yamaha GHS to me.


I tried a KA90 the other day and it reminded me most of Studiologic's VMK series. You definitely feel some sort of hammer/weights mechanism under the keys. But the KA90 was way looser and noisier than the VMK.

I bought a Yamaha MX88, but I'd pretty much been sold on that prior to playing it. I was looking for a lightweight (under 15kg) 88-note board and having compared and compared Roland, Kawai, Casio and the Yamahas I've come to the conclusion that I really prefer the midrange sound of the pianos in the Yamahas.

I agree with Dave that the Medeli action is way better than the TP100 in the Nord HP models, by a huge margin. I'm not going to suggest that the Kurz Medeli action is any better or worse than the Yamaha GHS in the MX88, but they are quite different. LH walking bass was more comfortable on the Yamaha, and there was nowhere near as much mechanical noise going on under the keys. Neither are premium actions. Definitely try before you buy.
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#2901038 - 01/10/18 04:39 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: niacin]
Legatoboy Online   content
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Registered: 08/11/06
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snax very interesting Niacin in regard to the MX88 vs SP6 keybed ... I was looking to the SP6 as possibly having a better action than my MX88....hopefully someone will have one on a music store floor somewhere close by for me to check out.


Edited by Legatoboy (01/10/18 04:40 AM)
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#2924385 - 04/30/18 09:01 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
sdf Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/18
Posts: 10
Loc: Illinois
Does this offer still stand? I have a Kurzweil SP6 I just bought. Looking for a few more sounds, including more polyphonic synthesizer pads and other sounds.

Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
Originally Posted By: ewall08530
Dave, are your custom sounds for the SP 6 available to purchase by someone who already bought this piano elsewhere?


Anyone here who owns or has ordered one can have my sounds free of charge. smile

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#2924388 - 04/30/18 09:11 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sdf]
sdf Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/18
Posts: 10
Loc: Illinois
The SP6 has a very nice action, IMO. It is better than my old PC2x, and seems reminiscent of a Fatar Studiologic piano controller keyboard I had years ago. You can set the Hammond organs to play at the high point in the keys while keeping the pianos at the low or regular point. The piano sounds are outstanding. Very rich and detailed. To me, with a few more sounds, this is an all-around good gig board, and one that might do in a pinch when only one board is desired and good piano action is a necessity. I had been gigging with a Hammond SK1-73 which of course had killer B3, and some decent to passable other sounds, but piano was always a little compromised. I will still keep that board, but it may end up as a top board, with the Kurzweil SP6 underneath for piano duties and strings/layers.

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#2924485 - 05/01/18 09:32 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sdf]
MoodyBluesKeys Offline
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Registered: 03/27/08
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sdf: Welcome to the forums. AFAIK, Dave's offer still stands. You need to contact him (lookup his username and send a PM). Note that he travels extensively in his work, and sometimes is in places with no access (or no time for access).
My PC3 (any of them) and the SK1 do indeed make a good combination. Still using a PC2 & 3 at church.
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#2924655 - 05/01/18 09:28 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: MoodyBluesKeys]
sdf Offline
Member

Registered: 04/30/18
Posts: 10
Loc: Illinois
Thanks for the response. I will PM him. Looks like Kurzweil also has sounds available that will work with the SP6, but I like Dave's sounds when I listened to the demos. I still have my PC2x with orchestral ROM and classic keys, but keep it at home mainly due to the weight. I really like the sound, feel and simplicity of the SP6, though, and a dual rig with the Hammond SK1-73 is killer.

Originally Posted By: MoodyBluesKeys
sdf: Welcome to the forums. AFAIK, Dave's offer still stands. You need to contact him (lookup his username and send a PM). Note that he travels extensively in his work, and sometimes is in places with no access (or no time for access).
My PC3 (any of them) and the SK1 do indeed make a good combination. Still using a PC2 & 3 at church.

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#2924674 - 05/02/18 03:39 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sdf]
Toey Offline
Member

Registered: 02/06/18
Posts: 11
Loc: Sheffield, UK
I think that Dave has previously suggested that either emailing him directly; WeiserSound or via the Kurzweil SP6 Facebook group is a better option for contacting him.


Edited by Toey (05/02/18 03:40 AM)
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#2924676 - 05/02/18 03:51 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sherry]
Bobby Simons Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 12/28/17
Posts: 392
Loc: Northport, L.I., NY
Originally Posted By: sherry
This is going to sound really shallow, but I'm really having a hard time coming to grips with the design of the SP6. I want to like this board in the worst way, and I may end up picking one up, but damn, what the hell were they thinking in the design? It's 6 inches in height. It looks two ping-pong paddles on the back of this board. I thought the design of the PC3, PC3K all looked professional but the SP6 -- Ummm, we'll see. And don't get me started on a case for this thing. I really like the weight of the SP6 and this old geezer might just have to put up with the funky-azz design.

Thank you. I agree with every word of that. The design ‘flourishes’ that the shell features can only be described as... unfortunate. I’ll be even more petty and wish that the ‘SP6’ on the back was not so huge and italic. laugh

I am probably more concerned with an instrument's appearance than necessary. I'm a patent draftsman by trade, and often examine designs for a living. This past weekend I pulled my 34 yr old Yamaha KX88 out of a closet; I'm thinking about getting it working again. I muscled it up onto a stand in the studio and then just stared at it. In my mind it is perfection of design, bordering on sculpture. It's feng shui is off the charts. A beauty from every angle, and plays like a dream. I would buy one today. I don't give a damn what it weighs.
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#2924694 - 05/02/18 06:08 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Bobby Simons]
Toano88 Online   content
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Registered: 04/30/10
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Quote:
Thank you. I agree with every word of that. The design ‘flourishes’ that the shell features can only be described as unnecessary. I’ll be even more petty and wish that the ‘SP6’ on the back was not so huge and italic.


Maybe you would prefer a glowing neon KORG? Since the back of the SP6 is matte black your complaint is easily fixed with some spray paint. I'm sure EscapeRocks could give you some pointers smile Actually I agree that both the Kurzweil and SP6 could be smaller. But if that's all I can nit-pick about, I'm pretty satisfied with it. Every board in my sig has some things that leave me scratching my head. FA-08 shiny plastic that scratches way too easily and a bright screen saver? The MOX8 is unreadable on a dark stage and has more buttons than a nuclear command center. All of which are 1st world problems!


Edited by Toano88 (05/02/18 06:13 AM)
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