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#2882482 - 09/30/17 08:02 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: rockinroller]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Powerful compared to PX-5S/560 and CP-40.
In this regard the SP6 technology wise is quite a bargain.
Although latest technology doesn't always equate to subjectively better sounding.
The real question is how well does the SP6 action play?
Also subjective, although typically a crappy feeling action is recognized for what it is. I haven't played the SP6 yet, but I don't care for the TP-100 on the cheaper Kurzweils to begin with.
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#2882509 - 09/30/17 12:05 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
sleepngbear Offline
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The one aspect of my Kurz SP4-7 that I still prefer over the CP4 is the brighter AP's. It's just got the sound that I prefer. But tye CP4 is pretty close, and the 88 keys and action more than make up for that minor drawback. I haven't gigged in over a year, partly because of health issues and no desire to lug all that gear around any more. But I still play a lot at home, pretty much exclusively the CP4. If this new SP6 has as good AP's as the SP4 and the action is as good as the CP4, I might have to seriously consider a swap. And that easier portability might just be enough to get me gigging again. Can't wait for the reviews!
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#2882551 - 09/30/17 04:15 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Powerful compared to PX-5S/560 and CP-40.
In this regard the SP6 technology wise is quite a bargain.
Although latest technology doesn't always equate to subjectively better sounding.

Overall, I think the basic Kurzweils (SP-whatever, Artis) already sound better than the Casios, for most sounds. (Keeping in mind that, besides whatever stock sounds they have, you can also load other PC3 sounds into them.)

As for the CP40, I never considered it because it's 36 lbs. The MX88 is more the lightweight competitor.
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#2882555 - 09/30/17 04:39 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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I was digging a bit today, so Medeli makes an app. 30lbs stage piano - SP4200 and a 5500. Would it be safe to assume this is the action Kurzweil has acquired for the SP6? Thommann sells Medeli but I'm having a hard time finding any reviews - it's apparently graded and owners say lighter feeling than other hammer weight actions.
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#2882562 - 09/30/17 04:55 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I was digging a bit today, so Medeli makes an app. 30lbs stage piano - SP4200 and a 5500. Would it be safe to assume this is the action Kurzweil has acquired for the SP6?

My guess (though I've seen no way to confirm it) is that the SP6 will have the same action as their KA90 (which is similar if not identical to the Medeli SP4000). That action feels kind of like the Yamaha GHS to me.
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#2882577 - 09/30/17 06:55 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Any reviews / reputation on how it holds up?
I think, like Casio - they may use this "hammer action" across the line.
No information on their site about action designs, or tiers between their stage, consoles, and grand consoles.

It's a shame we can't get our hands on a Kurzweil or Nord for that matter with an action like the better Kawai or Yamaha digital pianos with all the time and effort they put into DSP hardware, software, sampling, synthesis, patch programming, etc. Would be nice to see a Forte or Stage desktop or rack. But I guess that's why you get an NS3 Compact and pick a CP4 or MP7 to put under it. I wonder if they'll do a Forte 6. If not, I guess the Artis7 is as close as we'll get.
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#2882585 - 09/30/17 08:30 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Any reviews / reputation on how it holds up?

Only maybe to the extent that no news is good news. It also looks to be the same as the Alesis Coda Pro, so there should be a decent number of these actions out there, and I haven't seen reports of their going south.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
It's a shame we can't get our hands on a Kurzweil or Nord for that matter with an action like the better Kawai or Yamaha digital pianos with all the time and effort they put into DSP hardware, software, sampling, synthesis, patch programming, etc.

Yeah, it's the same story it's been... the best actions are proprietary (competitively, Kawai and Yamaha probably want to keep their actions to themselves, same with Roland and Casio), so the companies who can't cost-effectively design/manufacture their own actions are limited to what's available from the few companies who have them available. That said, I like the TP40 actions. What we're particularly shy on are quality hammer actions suitable for sub-30 lb boards. But that's true from everyone. (I still like my 10+ year old Casio best.)

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I wonder if they'll do a Forte 6. If not, I guess the Artis7 is as close as we'll get.

Looking at the Forte 7, I'd say i's a safe bet you'll never see a Forte 6. The control panel is too wide to put in anything with fewer keys. But a Forte 7 with a semi-weighted action with aftertouch (like the Fatar action of the Numa Compact 2) would be very nice.
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#2882633 - 10/01/17 08:10 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Maybe they'll do a Forte 7S (semi weight synth action).
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#2882678 - 10/01/17 02:18 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
HSS Offline
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It sounds like a potentially really good reasonably-priced, lightweight gigging board. I just wish it had dedicated EQ knobs like the Artis and Artis 7 boards. frown

I can live without the sliders / drawbars since I always carry a clone to gigs that require more organ.
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#2882683 - 10/01/17 02:45 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: HSS]
Marillo Offline
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Registered: 01/04/05
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Loc: UK
Well, I got to try a Roland FA-07 at the weekend and think I'll just about get away with it for piano/elec piano.

I'm in a classic rock band and never have to do isolated soloing so in that context I think it'll be fine. Plus the OS update seems to make it more suited for live performance than other boards.

And the weight/form factor is just really, really what I need.

(I have a VR-09 for organ on top)

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#2899042 - 01/01/18 10:46 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: johnchop]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
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Video I found on YouTube. Not recorded direct, and it looks like the keyboard is running in mono, though the result would be mono anyway from the camera mic.



I think it sounds pretty good considering though.
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#2899209 - 01/02/18 04:37 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Stokely]
jahfume Offline
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Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 50
Loc: Oxon

Based on that video I would be very underwhelmed by that piano sound.

The other SP6 thread has a much better sounding Kraft Music demo by the man born to sell keyboards - Chris Martirano - on page 4/5

I'm waiting for the vid where Dave Weiser showe that with an expert programing skills the SP6 pianos sound better than the Forte ;-)

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#2899235 - 01/02/18 07:08 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: jahfume]
Dave Weiser Offline
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Registered: 06/30/09
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Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: jahfume



I'm waiting for the vid where Dave Weiser showe that with an expert programing skills the SP6 pianos sound better than the Forte ;-)


Ha sorry man! The Forte samples are my favorite to work with, my custom Forte pianos are my go-tos.

But I do love the SP6 pianos and I was quite happy with the results I got, especially considering the weight and price. (Note my SP6 pianos were created on a Forte SE.)

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#2899297 - 01/03/18 05:10 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
hazerkeys Offline
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Registered: 03/27/05
Posts: 309
Loc: canandaigua, ny
ordered mine new years eve to replace my PC1x (trying to lighten my load here) .... back ordered at Sweetwater .. hope I like the action , and think it will do all I need .. have my XK1c on top for organ (replaced a CX3 to lighten things there as well)
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#2899298 - 01/03/18 05:12 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
ewall08530 Offline
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Registered: 11/09/04
Posts: 726
Dave, are your custom sounds for the SP 6 available to purchase by someone who already bought this piano elsewhere?

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#2899435 - 01/03/18 04:18 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ewall08530]
Dave Weiser Offline
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Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 1298
Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: ewall08530
Dave, are your custom sounds for the SP 6 available to purchase by someone who already bought this piano elsewhere?


Anyone here who owns or has ordered one can have my sounds free of charge. smile

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#2899447 - 01/03/18 05:49 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
jahfume Offline
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Registered: 11/20/12
Posts: 50
Loc: Oxon


Dave you are a Star! like

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#2899453 - 01/03/18 06:17 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: jahfume]
Coker Offline
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Registered: 02/13/16
Posts: 141
Loc: Connecticut
Very classy, Dave
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#2899499 - 01/04/18 02:21 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
TomKittel Offline
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Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 584
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser


Anyone here who owns or has ordered one can have my sounds free of charge. smile


Dave, Thanks for your generous offer like

I expect delivery of my SP6 today. Needless to say that I would have ordered it from you if I would live in the US.

Tom

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#2900055 - 01/06/18 09:54 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
sleepngbear Offline
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Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 580
Loc: RI
Any feedback yet on the action from somebody who's actually played one? Particularly compared to other fully-weighted 88-key stage pianos?
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#2900087 - 01/06/18 12:09 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sleepngbear]
Jim Alfredson Offline
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I love the action. It's not too heavy, not to light, perfect for playing piano, electric piano, synths, etc.
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#2900109 - 01/06/18 02:08 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Jim Alfredson]
sleepngbear Offline
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Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 580
Loc: RI
Originally Posted By: Jim Alfredson
I love the action. It's not too heavy, not to light, perfect for playing piano, electric piano, synths, etc.

Good to know. The CP4 is very nice, but just a tad on the heavy side (for me).
Is it 'frictionless'? By that I mean, some manufacturers seem to make up for the absence of physical hammer weight by adding friction to the action. I had a Kawai MP6 that felt like this. Not horrible, but definitely noticeable compared to the more free-feeling CP4.
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#2900162 - 01/06/18 05:45 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sleepngbear]
Dave Weiser Offline
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Registered: 06/30/09
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Loc: Boston, MA
Originally Posted By: sleepngbear

Is it 'frictionless'? By that I mean, some manufacturers seem to make up for the absence of physical hammer weight by adding friction to the action. I had a Kawai MP6 that felt like this. Not horrible, but definitely noticeable compared to the more free-feeling CP4.


No friction added as far as I know. (I auditioned the action and created its velocity maps back when I worked at Kurz.) It feels like a hammer action. But like the higher-end TP40L, it's a hammer action that moves quickly, very friendly for non-piano parts. Both the Medeli and TP40L are what I would call "free-feeling".

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#2900189 - 01/06/18 07:17 PM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: Dave Weiser]
sleepngbear Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/21/15
Posts: 580
Loc: RI
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
Originally Posted By: sleepngbear

Is it 'frictionless'? By that I mean, some manufacturers seem to make up for the absence of physical hammer weight by adding friction to the action. I had a Kawai MP6 that felt like this. Not horrible, but definitely noticeable compared to the more free-feeling CP4.


No friction added as far as I know. (I auditioned the action and created its velocity maps back when I worked at Kurz.) It feels like a hammer action. But like the higher-end TP40L, it's a hammer action that moves quickly, very friendly for non-piano parts. Both the Medeli and TP40L are what I would call "free-feeling".

Very good to hear. Thank you!
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#2900224 - 01/07/18 04:38 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: sleepngbear]
TomKittel Offline
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Registered: 07/09/13
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I am rather underwhelmed by the SP6 which I received earllier this week.The plastic casing squeeked ad creeked when I unboxed it and put it on a keyboard stand. Never experienced that with other plastic casings like CP4 or PX5S. In contrast my PC3X or the Artis 7 are built like tanks.

Then I played the SP6 next to my PC3X. By direct comparison the Medeli keyboard felt heavier and somehow doughy to me. And it is way more noisy which is due to the plastic casing I guess. While still quite playable I didnít like the keybed. Then I played the SP6 from the PC3 via Midi. It immediately became apparent to me how much better the TP40L is. No comparison. The SP6Ďs sounds played from the PC3 are a real pleasure, DaveĎs soundset in particular (thanks again!). But I missed an EQ with the APs. Some sounds like the Rhodes programs have a "built-in" EQ. In contrast the APs do not have any EQ. This should be fixed in a future update.

All in all, the SP6 said to me: "what you pay is what you get." It is a compromise. A powerful sound engine on the cheap. Great sounds combined with a not so great keybed in a cheap casing. The higher price of the Forte SE is more than justified in my opinion. Kurzweil should put the SP6 engine into a desktop or rack module and offer it for under a grand. I bet that it would be a hot seller.
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#2900231 - 01/07/18 07:07 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: TomKittel]
teashea Offline
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Registered: 06/24/17
Posts: 196
Originally Posted By: TomKittel
I am rather underwhelmed by the SP6 which I received earllier this week.The plastic casing squeeked ad creeked when I unboxed it and put it on a keyboard stand. Never experienced that with other plastic casings like CP4 or PX5S. In contrast my PC3X or the Artis 7 are built like tanks.

Then I played the SP6 next to my PC3X. By direct comparison the Medeli keyboard felt heavier and somehow doughy to me. And it is way more noisy which is due to the plastic casing I guess. White still quite playable I didnít like the keybed. Then I played the SP6 from the PC3 via Midi. It immediately became apparent to me how much better the TP40L is. No comparison. The SP6Ďs sounds played from the PC3 are a real pleasure, DaveĎs soundset in particular (thanks again!). But I missed an EQ with the APs. Some sounds like the Rhodes programs have a "built-in" EQ. In contrast the APs do not have any EQ. This should be fixed in a future update.

All in all, the SP6 said to me: "what you pay is what you get." It is a compromise. A powerful sound engine on the cheap. Great sounds combined with a not so great keybed in a cheap casing. The higher price of the Forte SE is more than justified in my opinion. Kurzweil should put the SP6 engine into a desktop or rack module and offer it for under a grand. I bet that it would be a hot seller.



Plastic, plastic ----- That is an important issue for me and why I would not buy an SP6 or a Roland___ or a Yamaha____. I would much rather pay more to get metal construction. And I do very much like my Atris 7.
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#2900237 - 01/07/18 07:33 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: teashea]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Itís not just about price, guys. Thereís a market for getting weight down that meets the needs of gigging keyboard players that carry their own stuff to/from/in and around all sorts of venues. SP6 gets 88k weighted action down to 27.25lbs. Casio PX-5S is 24lbs. CP4 which is generally picked for better feeling action already jumps up to 38.58lbs. Nord Electro 5HP has to cut size down to 73keys and swap out the TP-40L for the lame TP-100/HP to make 25.13lbs. So, at the moment the nice playing actions are heavier - although, to me, the Casio action is acceptable compromise.

Iíll try out myself like we all should and be honest about the Medeli action with yíall (thanks for sharing, Tom). Right now there are compromises for weight, we have to accept that. But maybe in the not too distant future the developers will start to experiment with materials other than plastic and aluminum.
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#2900242 - 01/07/18 08:20 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Yes, the best actions aren't in the lightest boards. But I used to say that, for playing piano, even the worst hammer actions were better than the best non-hammer actions, and I no longer feel that way. As I've mentioned, I like the action in my Artis7 (with lighter springs), and in fact, I've come to like it more than my PX5S, which itself is far from the worst hammer action board. (Though I still prefer my old Casio PX500L over either!)
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#2900243 - 01/07/18 08:21 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
TomKittel Offline
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Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 584
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Yes, the best actions aren't in the lightest boards. But I used to say that, for playing piano, even the worst hammer actions were better than the best non-hammer actions, and I no longer feel that way. As I've mentioned, I like the action in my Artis7 (with lighter springs), and in fact, I've come to like it more than my PX5S, which itself is far from the worst hammer action board. (Though I still prefer my old Casio PX500L over either!)


+1

I also like my Artis 7 with lighter springs a lot, including playing AP sounds with it. And the Master EQ helps a lot to make itĎs old PC3 Rhodes samples shine. I only wish it also had the 7ft AP samples of the Forte SE/SP6.

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#2900245 - 01/07/18 08:35 AM Re: Kurzweil SP6 [Re: AnotherScott]
Electro Fan Offline
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Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 454
Loc: Maine
I appreciate Tom and Jimís perspectives on the keybed of the SP6. As ElmerJFudd stated, we should all try it for ourselves, unfortunately in my situation this not really an option. No retailer in my state will carry this keyboard, and with the exception of purchasing from a retailer with a good return policy and the willingness to ship it back, I will need to use feedback from places like KC to inform my decision making.

Many of mentioned the plastic vs metal construction issue. For me, the low weight is a priority, so I am willing to settle for the plastic chassis. When you take a 40lb board and carry it in a 20lb + hard shell case, the weight going up and down stairs or in and out of long load ins, becomes a challenge. I have gigged for last few years with my plastic Px-5s and have never had any issues related construction materials.
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