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#2882224 - 09/28/17 05:52 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: p90jr]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5193
Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
Originally Posted By: p90jr
Or as someone recently put it in a meme on facebook:

"You can be white and have problems, but being white isn't THE problem."


Nicely put.
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#2882265 - 09/29/17 03:21 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: p90jr]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9768
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Originally Posted By: p90jr
Originally Posted By: whitefang
I fail to see how anyone's "relative position" to ME can be based on slavery. You might need to clarify that a bit.
Whitefang


Well, from what I know of you on here, you aren't a bigot and you don't wave a Confederate flag and hurl racial insults at people and demean minorities every chance you get.

I live in a town with no shortage of people who do all of that all the time. You should see the comments section of our local newspaper, which we all avoid because it's just depressing to know this is who we share a city with...


Odd thing is....

I live in the city I grew up in. It's a suburb just over the Southwest border of Detroit that until about 30 years ago was one of many all-white enclaves in an area known as "Downriver". And in spite of a growing diverse population, there are still people in this town that do just that. I can only say that I'm glad to know that those don't make up what can be considered a large section of the population. I also believe that it's the right of every American to hate any kind of people they choose, but that hatred shouldn't exceed their own personal space. And should never take the form of overt vocal or physical aggression or any other action that could lead to violence.

Don't like your black or white( whatever the case may be) neighbors? Fine. Then just be indifferent to them. Don't give them the satisfaction of having the power of their existence being a controlling factor in your life. Indeed, I sort of find that kind of thing, when directed at ME, to be kind of flattering! wink Remember the old saying----

"My life is in the hands of any fool who can cause me to lose my temper." smile
Whitefang
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#2882326 - 09/29/17 08:14 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6011
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
I think it's clear that we here are (at least in public) on the same side abt most of this stuff.

However the larger world definitely does have some continuaing probs.
The question becomes whadda we, as musos, do abt it ?
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#2882364 - 09/29/17 10:16 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: d]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 4982
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: d
I think it's clear that we here are (at least in public) on the same side abt most of this stuff.
However the larger world definitely does have some continuaing probs.
The question becomes whadda we, as musos, do abt it ?


Continue to make beauty & speak truth in our music. And to see the beauty & truth in the music of all peoples from all over the world.
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#2882366 - 09/29/17 10:25 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: Scott Fraser]
Larryz Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 10115
Loc: Northern California
+1 Scott...let the music continue to bring us together! cool
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#2882465 - 09/30/17 04:00 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9768
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
thu love
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#2882486 - 09/30/17 08:12 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6011
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
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#2882628 - 10/01/17 07:32 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: d]
picker Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/13/04
Posts: 13357
Loc: Near 12th Street and Vine...
So, will we be changing this from a guitar site to a race relations site?

Honestly, what does anybody expect folks to say? Is there anybody here stupid enough to say they hate someone for their race, whether it's true or not, or that it's okay with them if people hate folks for the color of their skin?

I've been posting here a long time, and my experience is that it gets weird around here whenever somebody deviates from talking about guitars. SO I have to ask, what did really you hope to accomplish with this post, P90 jr?
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#2882865 - 10/02/17 10:29 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: picker]
p90jr Offline
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Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 2885
I hoped to turn the board into a race war... which would be everyone else against Dannyalcatraz and myself, I guess.

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#2883070 - 10/03/17 05:00 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: p90jr]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9768
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
The only "race war" that interests me is being at war with the "rat race". wink

But it's personal. I always resented it that the "rats" could always outrun me. crazy
Whitefang
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#2883099 - 10/03/17 07:48 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: p90jr]
d Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6011
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: p90jr
I hoped to turn the board into a race war... which would be everyone else against Dannyalcatraz and myself, I guess.


Wha ?
Leavin' me out ?
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#2883179 - 10/03/17 03:26 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: d]
p90jr Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 2885
Originally Posted By: d
Originally Posted By: p90jr
I hoped to turn the board into a race war... which would be everyone else against Dannyalcatraz and myself, I guess.


Wha ?
Leavin' me out ?


Oh, you too... sorry.

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#2883181 - 10/03/17 03:27 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
p90jr Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 2885
Originally Posted By: whitefang
The only "race war" that interests me is being at war with the "rat race". wink

But it's personal. I always resented it that the "rats" could always outrun me. crazy
Whitefang


Yeah, I think The Onion had a headline once that was "Rats winning Rat Race."

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#2883232 - 10/04/17 03:38 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: p90jr]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 7986
Loc: Japan
Well you`ll know the future is here when there`s a post that goes,
`Hi, this is Skipclone`s guitar, I have a question about pickups.
Skipclone says sorry he can`t comment, he`s stuck in traffic...`
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#2883236 - 10/04/17 04:30 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: p90jr]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9768
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Originally Posted By: p90jr
Yeah, I think The Onion had a headline once that was "Rats winning Rat Race."


Sorry, but I gotta admit:

I copped that concept from the old PAUL LYNDE sitcom from the early '70's. He comes in the house when returning from work and the wife asks, "How goes the rat race?" and he answered sardonically, "The rats are winning." grin

Strange, some of the crap one remembers, isn't it? wink
Whitefang
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#2883290 - 10/04/17 10:45 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
p90jr Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 2885
Originally Posted By: whitefang
Originally Posted By: p90jr
Yeah, I think The Onion had a headline once that was "Rats winning Rat Race."


Sorry, but I gotta admit:

I copped that concept from the old PAUL LYNDE sitcom from the early '70's. He comes in the house when returning from work and the wife asks, "How goes the rat race?" and he answered sardonically, "The rats are winning." grin

Strange, some of the crap one remembers, isn't it? wink
Whitefang


Yeah, I might be mixing up things... I know The Onion did have a famous headline that said "Drugs winning War on Drugs" among others.

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#2883291 - 10/04/17 10:48 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: skipclone 1]
p90jr Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 2885
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
Well you`ll know the future is here when there`s a post that goes,
`Hi, this is Skipclone`s guitar, I have a question about pickups.
Skipclone says sorry he can`t comment, he`s stuck in traffic...`


Oops... I forgot you, too, in the joke about a race war... which was a bad joke/smart ass comment, anyway.

Everybody who posts here are brothers, complete with occasional brotherly spats and misunderstandings. I do wish we'd attract some sisters, just for a variety of perspectives.

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#2883335 - 10/04/17 02:46 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: p90jr]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9768
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
HEAR, HEAR!

Whitefang
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#2883404 - 10/05/17 03:12 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: p90jr]
skipclone 1 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 7986
Loc: Japan
Originally Posted By: p90jr
Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
Well you`ll know the future is here when there`s a post that goes,
`Hi, this is Skipclone`s guitar, I have a question about pickups.
Skipclone says sorry he can`t comment, he`s stuck in traffic...`


Oops... I forgot you, too, in the joke about a race war... which was a bad joke/smart ass comment, anyway.

Everybody who posts here are brothers, complete with occasional brotherly spats and misunderstandings. I do wish we'd attract some sisters, just for a variety of perspectives.


Umm......ya-I`ll get over being forgotten PDQ, don`t worry about it.
I can`t offer any particular advice about having more of our sisters in arms hanging out, other than not treating every comment as a contest. I would postulate, that a spirit of helpful advice would do some good.
_________________________
Same old surprises, brand new cliches-

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www.soundclick.com/bands/pagemusic.cfm?bandid=602491

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#2883410 - 10/05/17 04:25 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: skipclone 1]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9768
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Yeah, true. After all, the name of this place is "guitar players" forum. Not "guitar players one upmanship" forum.

Yeah, don't bother. I Know...

I'm guilty too.
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#2883733 - 10/07/17 04:37 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9768
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
OK.....

Then there's(sorta)the other side of the coin......

I remember reading also early on in HIS career, Jimi Hendrix was given a lot of grief by fellow African-Americans for "Playin' that HONKY s***t." Meaning psychedelic rock'n'roll rather than the same kind of R&B other black artists were doing at the time. And him towing those two "Ofays" around with him didn't help either. That plus him being so big on Bob Dylan more or less made him an outcast from African-American culture at the time. And it had it's effect on him. Notice that towards the end, his look began to change....

He started wearing his hair more "natural" than the looser curls he had when we first saw him. Plus his clothing was getting less "gypsy" than before. But I thought it was funny. Him being accused of playing that "Honky" music when not that long before, white musicians were accused of "stealing" that music from black artists. I guess we all could be thankful there were MORE people who liked the music regardless of where it came from or who. And just now while typing all this crap I recalled another thing.....

Remember a thread I started a few years ago about band names? It just struck me that I once knew a friend who had a "basement" band back in the "day" that called themselves THE WHITEWASHERS. grin Should only take a second or two to figure out what they meant by that. wink
Whitefang
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#2884176 - 10/10/17 05:31 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
Eric Iverson Offline
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Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 5234
Loc: Jackson Heights, NY
Yes, I had a black friend who is a bass player, who gave me one lesson (he decided I was too advanced to need lessons from him, which I don't believe for a minute, LOL). Anyway, he played violin as a kid and quit because some people gave him grief for playing a "white" instrument; he told me "I caved."
I hope to see the day when all this racial BS will came to a well-deserved end, but I am afraid I won't LIVE long enough.....

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#2884202 - 10/10/17 07:33 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: Eric Iverson]
p90jr Offline
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Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 2885
I remember as a kid having music appreciation at school... which, I mean, my home life was a perpetual music history and appreciation class, but I remember it tracing the history of folk music in America, and work songs... along with a history lesson how in America's early days indentured servants from Ireland, Scotland, Germany and other European countries worked alongside slaves from Africa, and the African vocal chants met the folk song forms from Europe and American folk music and everything that was built upon it later was born.

They don't teach Music Appreciation (or Civics) anymore, apparently, in schools.

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#2884260 - 10/10/17 11:34 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: Eric Iverson]
d Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6011
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: Eric Iverson
I hope to see the day when all this racial BS will came to a well-deserved end, but I am afraid I won't LIVE long enough.....


1 thing abt die-hard haters is that they, uh, die hard.

I reiterate, though, that 1 thing that keeps this crap going is actually the use of the flawed term "race/racial".
If ppl stop using that word the idiotic concept won't end immediately but will die out faster if for no reason other than allowing the idea to fade.
Sounds too simple ?
Sometimes the best most effective solutions are simple.
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#2884270 - 10/10/17 11:53 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: d]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5193
Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
What we need is for aliens to land. We'd forget about bigotry pretty quickly- we are may not be all the same, but "BY GOD, WE are not THEM!!!"
_________________________
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My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

http://murphysmusictx.com/

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#2884300 - 10/10/17 02:37 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9768
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Originally Posted By: d
I reiterate, though, that 1 thing that keeps this crap going is actually the use of the flawed term "race/racial".
If ppl stop using that word the idiotic concept won't end immediately but will die out faster if for no reason other than allowing the idea to fade.
Sounds too simple ?


Indeed it does. The simplest thing about the idea is that ceasing to use any particular word or words isn't going to magically change people's way of thinking. That'll take years to overcome and make any headway with, but the idea IS a step in the right direction.
Whitefang
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#2885528 - 10/17/17 03:20 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: p90jr]
Delta Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 235
Loc: Ormond Beach, FL
Originally Posted By: p90jr
Originally Posted By: d
There has never been a "human race" other than what we have now.
All other "races" were killed off by other pre/proto-humans before we existed.

Skin color has the only "basis" for what separates us other than what certain biz opps to divide us.


Keep it up only if ya wanna keep that up.


Actually, if you keep up with the wondrous unraveling of the human genome project and DNA research, those hominid precursors to Modern Humans are buried inside of us. They weren't killed off or outcompeted, they lived with and intermarried with us and joined us in the lineage. Every day, it seems, they find a new genetic marker for another Hominid precursor race in the DNA of a population from a certain place. It seems that natural selection just gave an edge to people with more Modern Human genetic admixture and tilted the scales in that direction until the only humans left were mostly genetically Modern Humans, our ancestors.

Now, for a part a lot of people can't accept (well, they usually don't make it this far on the subject, because first they have to accept that Modern Humans evolved in Africa while they were cut off there - a tropical paradise at the time - during the Ice Age, with few adversities, and what defines a "Modern Human" is a brain that is naturally tilted toward an even-tempered disposition and executive function that suppresses impulsiveness. Neanderthals, our close cousin precursors and the group that Modern Humans leaving Africa joined together with the most, were bi-polar as an environmental necessity. They had to jump from sedate to fight or flight at a seconds notice to survive in a bleak, snowy landscape full of predators like saber-tooth tigers. In the grassy plains or jungles of Africa at the time, groups of humans were less vulnerable and sat at the top of the food chain. Anyway, the part I began this with is that the only almost completely Modern Human people left on the planet are the Bushmen of Southern Africa, who have no violent impulses and are happy just to live off of the land in peace... and we have to maintain reservations for them to protect them from the rest of us. Our natural dissatisfaction and the resulting drive to do things and achieve things is a legacy of the Neanderthal and other genes that give our brains a hint of bi-polarity and discontent. We're all slightly mentally ill... if we weren't, we'd go find a beach with edible vegetation and a tree with a hammock nearby and a tent and be happy the rest of our days. Some of our mental illness is more beneficial than others, and some cases are at a helpful amount (a perfectionist musician, for example) and some are too much.


I recently read a National Geographic article regarding paleogenetics, which is the study of our DNA from things that have been dead for a very long time. It's basically an interview with scientist Adam Rutherford about a book he just wrote called "A Brief History of Everybody Who Ever Lived". He explains the mixing of Homo Sapiens, Neanderthals, Denisovans and one more undiscovered human species that has made us who we all are. According to genetics, race isn't a reality.


Edited by Delta (10/17/17 03:30 PM)
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#2885533 - 10/17/17 03:54 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6011
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: whitefang
Originally Posted By: d
I reiterate, though, that 1 thing that keeps this crap going is actually the use of the flawed term "race/racial".
If ppl stop using that word the idiotic concept won't end immediately but will die out faster if for no reason other than allowing the idea to fade.
Sounds too simple ?


Indeed it does. The simplest thing about the idea is that ceasing to use any particular word or words isn't going to magically change people's way of thinking. That'll take years to overcome and make any headway with, but the idea IS a step in the right direction.

The basis of my suggestion is that old ideas & terms that fall into disuse become dead.
When ppl no longer use a word, it---& the idea behind it---tends to fade.
Doesn't happen overnight (although social evolution is increasing in rapidity in recent yrs) but it's faster than tryna change ppl's minds philosophically.
You make their mind change by removing an option.
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#2885620 - 10/18/17 05:22 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9768
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Sounds good on paper, but deeply bigoted people will invent a new option to replace the one you remove. Like political correctness changing "short" to "vertically challenged" didn't stop people from how they saw and thought of people who hadn't much height. And there are PLENTY of options to replace the "N" word for bigots to choose from.
Whitefang
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#2886104 - 10/20/17 04:31 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Eric Iverson Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 5234
Loc: Jackson Heights, NY
Yes, moral character and musical talent [or ANY kind of talent] don't necessarily go hand in hand.

Of course, then some people go to the OTHER extreme and adopt a "guilty till proven innocent" attitude towards certain groups (say, MUSICIANS, LOL...), and that's not right either.

For example, I have known a lot of musicians who weren't alcoholics or drug addicts - at least, they didn't seem to be, and weren't drinking or drugging in my presence, over the course of YEARS in some cases. Nor did I hear them rattle on about how they hated anybody. Not that they were angels.....

Amos Garrett did a funny song, "Some Musician Was To Blame" - I will try to dig up the lyrics if anyone's interested.

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