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#2875153 - 08/25/17 07:36 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: skipclone 1]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
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Loc: Northern California
I know music bridges the gap between the races, at least it has for me. Most musicians appreciate each other and get along just fine. I enjoy listening to all kinds of music from different areas of the US and other parts of the world as well. cool
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#2875190 - 08/25/17 10:38 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: Larryz]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 7961
Loc: Japan
Absolutely, and other areas of the arts have the same quality. My friend is from Australia, his wife is Japanese, he studies Wing Chun kungfu and she is a hula dancer.
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#2875238 - 08/25/17 02:49 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: skipclone 1]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Thanks to my wife and her family, I've been exposed to far better Mariachi music thean I would have ordinarily. At least compared to what I've been privy to hear beforehand.

Never a wedding(except ours) went by without an excellent Mariachi band contributing to the festivities.

And growing up, I've been exposed to plenty Polish music, and growing up in close proximity to Detroit, lots of local jazz and R&B. Then came Motown and a further appreciation for the contributions Black artists made to music.

Plus my stepfather being Hungarian, I learned what Czardas music was and the limitless possibilities of the zither.

But I always disliked the term "world music" because I've always considered ALL music to be worldwide. There's just different cultural styles and distinct instrumentation, but that shouldn't imply limits and/or seperations.
Whitefang
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#2875257 - 08/25/17 04:17 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9991
Loc: Northern California
It maybe a little OT, but I loved Linda Ronstadt during her Mariachi days! Still do. love

One of my buds hired a full Mariachi band (like about 10 players or so) for his daughter's wedding reception...what a gas! cool


Edited by Larryz (08/25/17 04:23 PM)
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#2875265 - 08/25/17 05:47 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 4968
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: whitefang
But I always disliked the term "world music" because I've always considered ALL music to be worldwide. There's just different cultural styles and distinct instrumentation, but that shouldn't imply limits and/or seperations.
Whitefang


Those of us in the "world music" world just call it "folk music."
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#2875267 - 08/25/17 05:50 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
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Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Larryz
It maybe a little OT, but I loved Linda Ronstadt during her Mariachi days! Still do. love
One of my buds hired a full Mariachi band (like about 10 players or so) for his daughter's wedding reception...what a gas! cool


Here in LA there's a lot of work for Mariachis. At least once a year some neighbor of mine hosts a Quinceañera, & there's always a Mariachi band playing late into the night within earshot for those. It's a wonderful music tradition. I've worked with a lot of those bands, both recording & mixing live.
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#2875291 - 08/25/17 11:20 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: Scott Fraser]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 7961
Loc: Japan
There are several Mexican culture festivals here during the summer, with excellent music and dance performances. Unfortunately, this being Japan, the food kept getting blander and blander. Finally my friends and I got fed up (so to speak), we don`t go anymore.
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#2875316 - 08/26/17 05:24 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: skipclone 1]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Yeah, as a wedding photographer I've also done a few Quinceaneras, which is like shooting the largest "wedding" party ever, and Mariachis were always there too. A unique and fascinating musical form. And I've long been fascinated with that big GUITARRRON they use. That 5-string GUITARRA de golpe is interesting too.
Whitefang


Edited by whitefang (08/26/17 05:26 AM)
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#2875323 - 08/26/17 07:21 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9991
Loc: Northern California
The Mariachi dancers that go with the music are fantastic too. Many traditional dance steps and costumes. I watched some YT clips of the Quinceaneras to see what you guys were talking about. The mariachis have some provocative traditional dance steps that they do around the 15 year old girl. They get some oooh's from the audience...

The guys on the trumpets really impress me as they add so much to the music while not blasting the acoustic instruments out of the water. They always remind me of the Tijuana brass for some reason. cool


Edited by Larryz (08/26/17 07:23 AM)
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#2875431 - 08/26/17 11:19 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: Larryz]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Registered: 08/21/03
Posts: 7961
Loc: Japan
Here`s one from the festival a few years back:
https://goo.gl/photos/nvo7iqSF2imX1NgS8
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#2875441 - 08/27/17 04:44 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: skipclone 1]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Not all the ones I've beento had all those dancers and added attractions, but there's ALWAYS a good time to be had anyway.

And note that Mariachi doesn't follow what we "whettoes" think of as "traditional" rhythm patterns in both the music AND the vocals. wink

My wife once told me that she and her sisters took lessons in those dances and have danced at a few quinceanera's when they were little girls. I've seen old B&W photos of them and have to say they were "cuties"! wink
Whitefang
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#2875684 - 08/28/17 04:28 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
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As we get further from the point, I'd like to wheel back & ask who was the original schmuck in question here, the one that provoked the outrage ?
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#2875717 - 08/29/17 04:06 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9632
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
That was P90jr, who brought up the sad fact that there ARE some white blues and R'n'R artists who don't mind raking in the bucks playing African-American based music while privately( and not so privately) venting bigoted epithets.
Whitefang
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#2875772 - 08/29/17 09:22 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
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I think he was asking who the guitarist was, whose ID has not yet been revealed.

I think I know who it is, but not having p90jr's direct experience- which prompted the thread- I'm not going to engage in open speculation.
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#2875829 - 08/29/17 02:16 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
d Offline
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Hey, DanA, thanks for attempting to clue the clueless in.

BTW, got the perpetrator's name from P90 but he/it seems to be a local hero, nobody in the national leagues.
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#2875907 - 08/30/17 05:15 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9632
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
I just re-read the OP and it's clear he's venting about ALL white bluesmen who badmouth African-Americans. Or white musicians that do so. Especially in genres that exist due to a lot of African-American influence.
Whitefang
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#2876164 - 08/31/17 01:01 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
p90jr Offline
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Registered: 11/21/07
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
I just re-read the OP and it's clear he's venting about ALL white bluesmen who badmouth African-Americans. Or white musicians that do so. Especially in genres that exist due to a lot of African-American influence.
Whitefang


Yeah... is that off?

I badmouth white people a lot, but that's more nuanced. (joke)

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#2876167 - 08/31/17 01:21 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: skipclone 1]
DocPate Offline
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Registered: 01/11/16
Posts: 632
Loc: Virginia
Bad topic IMHO. There's too much "us" and "them" going on in the world today. I totally agree with Fred: All musicians I've come in contact with over my 80+ years have been highly respectful of their peers. I can't recall a time when anyone referred to another as it relates to their ethnicity.

Now, I'll share a humorous story (at least I thought it was). I was sitting at a catfish shack just outside of Holly Springs MS back in the late 60s. There was some great music coming from the backporch. I finished my lunch and wandered out back to find R. L. Burnside jamming with a couple of local boys. When they finished their song (Asspocket full of whiskey) and I was clapping, he smiled and looked over to me and ask, "what is that you're drinking?" I told him I was drinking a bloody mary to which he walked over, pulled a pint of whiskey from his back pocket poured a good slug into my glass and commented, "Now white boy, that's how you drink a bloody muthafucker.


Edited by DocPate (08/31/17 01:22 PM)

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#2876182 - 08/31/17 02:57 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: DocPate]
whitefang Offline
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Posts: 9632
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Well, not related to music, I've always noticed there were differences in what I've noticed how many black people were and with how many whites in my neighborhood and family said they were like.

Many over the years said they were lazy no 'counts that didn't want to work. But I noticed that when I hired in to GM, most of the workers in the Cadillac plant I was at were black. And working harder than I ever cared to.

And most of my favorite music and music artists were black.

There was Sidney Poitier in the movies and Ruby Dee too. And Rex Ingram.

I never really understood all that racial antipathy.
Whitefang
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#2876693 - 09/02/17 08:26 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
Delta Offline
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Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 226
Loc: Ormond Beach, FL
Well, I've been avoiding this thread because as Cavean so eloquently stated "I loath racism." Now that that I've jumped into and read all of it, I have to say that I'm proud to be a part of this forum. I grew up in Northern Ontario, Canada and didn't see a black person in real life until I was 5 in 1961. We had 3 channels of TV, 2 Canadian, CBC Toronto, CTV Thunder Bay and 1 American, CBS out of Marquette, Michigan. I grew up in "The Great White North" in more ways than one. Of course we watched black people on TV, the tremendous athletes, musicians, entertainers. The riots and MLK came a little later. When I was 12 our family drove down for the first time to visit relatives in Farmington, Michigan, just outside of Detroit. This was in the summer 1968 right after the Detroit riots. Instead of taking us across the Ambassador Bridge from Windsor, Ontario over the Detroit River which would have taken us over and past downtown Detroit, my dad took us through the tunnel which emptied into the downtown core of Detroit. My first vision of America was a torn down, burnt up hole, something out WW2. My dad did this intentionally, to give the 3 of us kids a reality lesson. At the same time, Gordon Lightfoot's "Black Day in July" was on the radio airwaves. Our relatives in Farmington were very racist, some of it no doubt reignited by the recent events. My American wife of almost 35 years was born in Joliette, Illinois. We know what happened there. My dad stressed to us that this was the result of what Gordy sang in the song "when all is out of reach". He argued with my American uncle a few times regarding the racial line. We learned a lot from that experience. Racism has no place anywhere, and it's so sad to see it still exists.
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#2876742 - 09/03/17 04:05 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: Delta]
whitefang Offline
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Well Delta, the riot only tore up one neighborhood of the city, not all of it. But it tore up an even bigger section of the city's soul. And it did bring about some significant changes. The main drags through the riot's epicenter were renamed after Rosa Parks and Martin Luther King. Five years after your visit Detroit elected it's first black mayor. Eventually the city council changed from a bunch of old white guys to a black majority, as well as the city workers, fire department and police force. And also eventually, celebrated singer MARTHA REEVES(of the Vandellas) became a councilwoman.

The city still has enough problems to deal with, but now the racism has expanded to include Latinos and Arabs as well. But that racism is felt more outside the city than within. So I guess that is a level of progress. Plus, musically, we've had MOTOWN here since before you saw your first "real life" black person. wink
Whitefang
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#2876859 - 09/03/17 12:32 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
picker Offline
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"I pretty much take it for granted that if a white guy plays the blues you'll hear racist comments come out of their mouths...."

Isn't this the dictionary definition of prejudice?
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#2877266 - 09/05/17 02:35 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: picker]
p90jr Offline
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Registered: 11/21/07
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Originally Posted By: picker
"I pretty much take it for granted that if a white guy plays the blues you'll hear racist comments come out of their mouths...."

Isn't this the dictionary definition of prejudice?


Yep... and I should've put "here" in that sentence, as I think explained earlier.

And as local discussions with people who saw the post have pointed out, it is a certain type of person that we know locally from certain areas that we expect it from.

Not baby boomer-age, because - as one guy put it - "we took beatings from the crew cut 'necks around here ourselves for liking 'black people things' back then." There's empathy that came from having to dig into stuff back then.

Younger guys than that... who have grown up with an internet pipeline of everything into their rooms (and can I mention again that I think the internet - as wonderful as it is in the right hands - is making some warped human beings) and don't have "human" connections to much at all.

But with this, let this thread die.

Proud to be a member of this place, too.

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#2877272 - 09/05/17 02:41 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: p90jr]
whitefang Offline
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
And we're glad to have ya here too. smile
Whitefang
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#2878247 - 09/10/17 09:35 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
p90jr Offline
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Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 2840
He's at it again... I'm biting my tongue off...

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#2878270 - 09/10/17 01:58 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: p90jr]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Registered: 07/28/04
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If you enjoy his music, enjoy it. If not, then don't. But at some point, you either have to stop torturing your own conscience dealing with his hypocrisy by ignoring press about his personal views or taking a stand against it.


Edited by Dannyalcatraz (09/10/17 01:59 PM)
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#2878273 - 09/10/17 02:22 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9632
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Then also as was mentioned before, and as Danny just pointed out, if you enjoy his music, let it go at that. I mean,

There's a LOT of Frank Zappa's viewpoints I strongly disagreed with, but I never stopped liking the music. But on the other hand, at no time did he seem to be a hypocrite.
Whitefang
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#2878418 - 09/11/17 11:57 AM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: whitefang]
DocPate Offline
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Registered: 01/11/16
Posts: 632
Loc: Virginia
Just curious. Why do people associate rural Tennessee with rednecks and racism? I grew up in middle Tennessee on a farm and

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#2878421 - 09/11/17 12:10 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: DocPate]
A String Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: DocPate
Just curious. Why do people associate rural Tennessee with rednecks and racism? I grew up in middle Tennessee on a farm and


Blame Movies and TV shows.
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#2878441 - 09/11/17 01:33 PM Re: White Blues guitarists who don't like African Americans. [Re: A String]
DocPate Offline
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Registered: 01/11/16
Posts: 632
Loc: Virginia
Originally Posted By: A String
Originally Posted By: DocPate
Just curious. Why do people associate rural Tennessee with rednecks and racism? I grew up in middle Tennessee on a farm and


Blame Movies and TV shows.

I know. Stereotyping is just another form of bias. All bad

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