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#2872482 - 08/12/17 05:11 AM Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please
Dlrshort Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/28/11
Posts: 188
Loc: NJ
require fully weighted key bed 76-88 keys
Excellent AP sounds
Good-excellent Wurly and Rhodes
Decent strings
Low weight

What would you buy?

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#2872485 - 08/12/17 05:20 AM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: Dlrshort]
Dr88s Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 1108
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Casio PX5S. Checks most boxes in your criteria.
I'm not a huge fan of the non AP/EP sounds but you can't beat it in many other respects.


Edited by Dr88s (08/12/17 05:21 AM)
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#2872489 - 08/12/17 05:29 AM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: Dr88s]
Synthoid Offline
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Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 9748
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Originally Posted By: Dr88s
Casio PX5S.


thu

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#2872492 - 08/12/17 05:51 AM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: Synthoid]
Dlrshort Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/28/11
Posts: 188
Loc: NJ
Can you connect a volume pedal to that board that works correctly?

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#2872497 - 08/12/17 06:12 AM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: Dlrshort]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5451
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Yamaha CP4 - 38.58lbs
45 Grand pianos including the CFX, CFIII and the S6
47 Vintage electric pianos (tine, reed, DX and original CP80)
And an excellent controller with sustain and 2 controller inputs plus pitch and mod wheels located above the keys to reduce length.
Main, layer, and split part/zones.

The Casio PX-560 gives you the action and sounds of the PX-5S but is not as fully featured in the operating system especially in the area of controller functionality, advanced midi implementation, and programmability. However it does have the expression pedal input fans off the PX-5S wanted to see. It also has a color touch screen making the user interface very simple. And is inexpensive and light weight compared to most stage pianos it's intended to compete with.
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#2872501 - 08/12/17 06:28 AM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: Dlrshort]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11264
Originally Posted By: Dlrshort
require fully weighted key bed 76-88 keys
Excellent AP sounds
Good-excellent Wurly and Rhodes
Decent strings
Low weight

What would you buy?


Nord Electro 5HP. 25.13 lbs, top notch AP sounds, very good EP, decent enough strings. Biggest question would be how you get on with the TP100 action. I used to be less enamored of the Nord EPs, but after spending some time with the EQ, I was able to dial in some stuff I was happy with.

The aforementioned PX5S is a nice choice too, 24.47 lbs. AP sound not nearly as good as Nord, still some nice EPs, a lot cheaper, and a little lighter. Strings are weak. Casio PX560 is a lot simpler to operate than the PX5S (lacking a lot of the PX5S more advanced capabilities that you don't seem to need anyway), and has improved strings, though a bit heavier at 26.5 lbs. I haven't really looked at the PX360, but it might have all the PX560/PX5S capabilities you need as well.

Originally Posted By: Dlrshort
Can you connect a volume pedal to {the PX5s} that works correctly?

It depends what you mean by work correctly. Unlike the PX560 and the Nord, it doesn't specifically have an expression pedal input. You have two options, which could be sufficient for someone's uses. One is that you can simply put an analog guitar-style volume pedal on the outputs, it gives you literally a volume pedal, and it works like a volume pedal. The other approach is to connect an expression pedal to the MIDI input, there are a few ways to do that. In that case, it will affect one MIDI channel instead of affecting everything. This is how you'd use it if you wanted to be able to fade layered strings in and out without affecting the volume of the piano sound. I've never done this myself, I'm sure others can offer more detail. But since this is a concern, and you don't need the other advanced features of the PX5S, that's one more reason the PX560 probably makes more sense for you than a PX5S, if you don't mind a couple of extra pounds.


Edited by AnotherScott (08/12/17 06:33 AM)
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#2872502 - 08/12/17 06:38 AM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: Dlrshort]
Raymb1 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 350
Loc: Sterling, VA
Originally Posted By: Dlrshort
require fully weighted key bed 76-88 keys
Excellent AP sounds
Good-excellent Wurly and Rhodes
Decent strings
Low weight

What would you buy?


https://www.keyboardforums.com/threads/casio-px-5s-vs-nord-stage-2-blind-piano-sound-test.25959/
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Casio PX5s, XWP1 and CPS SSV3

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#2872506 - 08/12/17 07:11 AM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: Dlrshort]
rockinroller Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/05/04
Posts: 184
Loc: Motown
Kurzweil Forte 7: fully weighted keybed, 3000+ factory sounds. Some of the best pianos and orchestral sounds on the planet. Plus if you don't like what's loaded you can enjoy access to near-infinite number of variable and parameter adjustments. The 41.4lbs is mitigated with the purchase of a Kurzweil rolling semi-rigid gig case.
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#2872508 - 08/12/17 07:19 AM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: rockinroller]
The Piano Man Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 179
I own the PX360 and also a Nord Stage 2 ex HP76

Pianos are far better on the Stage and I actually prefer the action to the Casio which is a little hard for my tastes. However, the Casio is great value, very light for an 88 and has some more than serviceable sounds.

Feel free to ask any questions.
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#2872510 - 08/12/17 07:33 AM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: Raymb1]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11264
Originally Posted By: Raymb1
https://www.keyboardforums.com/threads/casio-px-5s-vs-nord-stage-2-blind-piano-sound-test.25959/

That Nord-Casio comparison was discussed more thoroughly at

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2635675/1

Of course, there is always some subjectivity to sounds, you'll pretty much never get 100% agreement, but there's a pretty strong consensus there. People preferred the Nord to the Casio by more than 2 to 1, and this despite comparing the best (well, only) Casio sample set to the not-best Nord sample set.

The Nord sound is from its Grand Imperial sample in Medium size. So even if you think the Grand Imperial is Nord's best piano sound, the Medium version includes a lot of sample stretching, as opposed to the loadable XL version which does not, and the XL includes all the string resonances over the full keyboard range, while the Medium version does not. These things could alter someone's opinion of the Grand Imperial sound.

Also, many people think other Nord piano sounds are better than the Grand Imperial. I think the Grand Imperial was widely considered their best when they came out with it (it was the first one I really liked, personally), but they have subsequently come out with 5 additional sample sets... Bright (Yamaha S4), Italian (Fazioli), Silver (Kawai), Velvet (Bluthner or Bechstein?), Royal 3D (Yamaha S6). Each of those has its fans, and I think three or four are often mentioned as favorites (i.e. over even the Grand Imperial). And that doesn't even count all the Upright samples, which some people prefer to the grands.

Something else that skews the comparison is, for those people who chose the Casio, some may have simply preferred the sound of a Steinway (the Grand Imperial is a Bosendorfer). For those people, it's worth noting that there are multiple Steinway samples that can be loaded into the Nord as well.

So almost certainly, many (perhaps most) of the minority who preferred the Casio in the comparison would have also preferred the Nord if it had had some other sample loaded into it and/or the best versions.

Really, as subjective as sound is, I have little hesitation in suggesting that the vast majority of people will find the Nord piano to be much better sounding than the Casio. Of course, the cheapest Nord with hammer action is triple the price of the PX5S, so this is not a knock on Casio which gives you an awful lot for the money, and it's certainly "good enough" for lots of people. But IMO, strictly from a perspective of the piano sound, it's not close. (And I have owned multiple Casios and Nords.)
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#2872534 - 08/12/17 09:45 AM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: AnotherScott]
harmonizer Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 666
Loc: NJ, USA
Regarding the acoustic piano sounds in the Nord products, most of them work better with stereo amplification. I have only a single "amplification device" (Electrovoice zx-a1), so I run in mono, and the best sounding acoustic piano sound I have found on the Nord for mono is the recently released Royal Grand. It is very nice in mono in a solo or home situation, and I have started also using it in my covers band with the Treble juiced up. I'm not yet sure if it will work for all covers band songs that require acoustic piano.

I had previously tried these other Nord acoustic piano sounds: "Silver Grand", "Grand Upright", "Italian Grand", and "Bright Grand", and found them unsatisfying in mono. I recall with some of them the octave below middle C sounded gummy.

If you are running in stereo, the concern I bring up here should not be an issue - while I don't run in stereo, there are plenty of people who report how wonderful the Nord acoustic piano sounds are in stereo.

3 things I really like about my Nord (besides its wonderful organ sounds): (1) Nord keeps on releasing new piano patches. The Royal Grand was released 4 years after I bought my Electro 3 - how cool is that? (2) I like the EP sounds (EP7 Tines and EP8 Nefertiti), and (3) I like the Wurli (Wurlitzer 2 Amped).

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#2872536 - 08/12/17 10:04 AM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: harmonizer]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5451
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Are you suggesting you use the Nord switch/setting to sum to mono or you use just the L or just the R out? Or the issue is the same regardless of method?
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#2872542 - 08/12/17 11:03 AM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: ElmerJFudd]
harmonizer Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 666
Loc: NJ, USA
With only a single amp/speaker, I was not satisfied with the sounds of the Silver, Grand Upright, Italian, or Bright Grand, with the output coming from just "L", with the Nord mono button on or off.

I did not try taking the output from just "R" with the mono button off - I first heard of that option after I had tried the acoustic piano sounds listed above.

With the Royal Grand, I have gotten slightly better results with the mono button on (this was slightly better than having the mono button off, and taking output from just "L").

The Bambino upright is another recent release from Nord which also did not "suffer" with only a single speaker, but I was not satisfied with it overall, perhaps it is based on a Spinet. I did not notice a difference between having the mono button on or off, when taking a single output from "L".

Before the Royal Grand was released, the best acoustic piano sound I had found for use with a single amp was the Black Upright - it was noticably better than the Silver, Grand Upright, Italian, or Bright Grand in this regard.

All the testing I have done has been with my single EV zx-a1, and using "L" sized samples in my old Electro 3 with its waterfall keyboard.

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#2872567 - 08/12/17 03:17 PM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: harmonizer]
The Piano Man Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 179
Even though it would seem to go against their philosophy, I think Nord could do well by offering within their piano library a highly processed, gig-ready, mono sample for those occasions where the subtleties of the usual Nord samples are neither desired nor effective.
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#2872574 - 08/12/17 07:05 PM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: The Piano Man]
Jazz+ Offline
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Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5524
Px-360 :
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#2872576 - 08/12/17 07:50 PM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: Jazz+]
cphollis Offline
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Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2074
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Nords demand good amplification. No way to get around that. I've spent big for sound equipment to maximize my Nord APs, and no regrets. The killer AP sound.

If you're not willing to spring for decent amplification, you'd be better off with another board that's tuned to average amplification.
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#2872577 - 08/12/17 08:30 PM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: cphollis]
Aidan Offline
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Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 4502
Loc: Stoke-on-Trent, UK
I'm guessing your eventual choice will be decided on exactly what you consider to be 'low weight'. My experience (as a 50-something, out of shape bloke with a back condition) is that there is a tipping point where a stage piano becomes problematic or a pain to haul around. For me, these days, that's about 18/19kg max.

Also, in my experience, the weight thing is compounded by the common challenge of lifting a relatively long piece instrument on and off stands in crowded stage/no stage environments, especially when you have other band members frantically packing down to get home at the end of a long night and drunk punters getting in the way too.

I have both the CP4 and the PX-5S. If you want the lowest possible weight with a decent action, the Casio wins every time. I do find the acoustic piano sound slightly synthetic, especially around the middle couple of octaves, but in band settings it's far less noticeable. For solo piano work, I've no doubt you'd find the Yamaha a far better experience and its mono samples are second to none. The Casio also sounds fine in mono, and I'd certainly recommend getting a piano which will let you shed more weight (and fewer trips to the car) by taking along a single speaker.

I think your best bet is to try the Casios and work up (weight-wise) from there.
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#2872579 - 08/12/17 08:45 PM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: Aidan]
agitato Offline
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Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 307
Kawai ES110? Am thinking of replacing my ES4 with it.

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#2872580 - 08/12/17 08:45 PM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: cphollis]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11264
Originally Posted By: cphollis
Nords demand good amplification. No way to get around that.
... If you're not willing to spring for decent amplification, you'd be better off with another board that's tuned to average amplification.

I don't think I agree with that. I think there may be more to be gained by putting a Nord through better amplification compared to putting some lesser piano through better amplification (i.e. there's more quality to be revealed), but I've played the Nord through "average" amplification as well, and while of course it doesn't sound as good as it does through a better system, in my experience, it still sounds better than other (more "ordinary") pianos played through the same lesser system.
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#2872583 - 08/12/17 09:19 PM Re: Shedding weight with stage piano-recommendations please [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5451
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Having trouble thinking of an instrument that wouldn't benefit from good amplification in any price range.
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