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#2874395 - 08/22/17 08:00 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Well, I DID once quote B.B. saying something like, "All that country music IS, is WHITE BOY BLUES." wink I think it was in response to some of his friends way back razzing him for saying he liked some country song that was big at the time.

And none of that counting and all those letters STILL doesn't change the fact that NONE of that stuff was ever thought of by those old dudes back when they were setting the bar. Just HEARING it for so long and so much over time it became so INGRAINED in them that they pulled it out of their bag when they thought it would help them "say" what they needed to.

And, as you claim NOT to be that "good" of a blues player, then knowing all of that really doesn't seem to HELP all that much, does it? wink
Whitefang
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#2874400 - 08/22/17 08:20 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Northern California
@ Fang, I never claimed "NOT to be that "good" of a blues player"...I simply said I don't have the right voice, heart, interest, etc., in singing and/or playing the blues. (you like to pick my comments apart but your memory fades a little at times). But, Yes, knowing "all of that" has helped my playing 100%. And, BTW I am a piss ant in the cosmos as far as knowing all that much of it! It's like the old bear story, I don't have to outrun the bear to keep from being eaten alive, I only have to outrun you LOL!

You may think those old blues boys did not know what a I IV V is or a Pentatonic Blues Scale, or whatever you wish to focus on [insert blues element here], but I assure you that they do...many times players such as yourself claim to not know or use these elements, but I assure you that you do. If you didn't, you wouldn't be playing the blues. You can believe it or not...it's just my comment. cool


Edited by Larryz (08/22/17 08:49 AM)
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#2874501 - 08/22/17 02:52 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9866
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
I'll try one lasttime, then we'll leave it be because I don't wish to piss you off. That's not my intent. And the not being a good blues player was just a bit of a "rib" wink

I never claimed the old blues players DIDN'T know what all that was. Just that they never knew(or cared) what all of it was called. Or even considered any of it when coming up with a new tune. I did often mention a friend of mine who was in one of the "rag-tag" basement bands I was in who was classically trained. Well, one time I came up with a new tune I "wrote"(which really means I "made it up", since I don't "write" music). When I finished a quick run-through of it, he said, "I thought you said you never studied music formally." And I said I didn't. He then asked me, "You mean you DIDN'T realize that song is in a 5/4 time signature?"

I told him no, I just liked the way the changes SOUNDED. cool
Whitefang
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#2874754 - 08/23/17 01:16 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Don't worry about pissing me off Fang, you do it all of the 5/4 time LOL! cool
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#2874833 - 08/24/17 04:23 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
grin

That's how I've been workin' on the railroad! wink

Anyway( and it struck me humorously), I was lookin' though my CD collection the other day for something to strike my fancy at the time, and chose an old JOHN MAYALL re-issue("Crusade")

While listening, your comment about not having "the right voice" came haunting back. Now, many would say John doesn't exactly SOUND like a blues singer, yet he's STILL considered a respected "bluesman". wink So, it must be the "heart and interest" that's the major players, eh? Anyway....

That LP starts out with "Driving Sideways", an instrumental blues tune by Freddie King, who's done several of those. So THAT approach might work for ya. wink And as far as "Singin' The Blues", did you forget Guy Mitchell? wink
Whitefang
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#2874865 - 08/24/17 06:46 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Yeah, forget about Guy Mitchell...Marty Robbins is my favorite when it comes to Singing the Blues. There were a lot of old white country blues tunes going back to 1928 like the ones I mentioned from Oh Brother Where Art Thou. I think Bob Dylan copped his tune from Mitchell and Robbins when he did his version called Living The Blues:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lq0xZQvvX20

I was watching a few YT interview clips about the blues and caught Buddy Guy talking about those old dudes. He had put his guitar on the back burner for awhile and just went and watched the greats. He said they "were naturals and I was just a student." Howlin Wolf said it's all about money and Son House said it's all about a man and a woman...Buddy attended the greats concerts back in the day and is around today to tell us what he was thinking. Luckily there are clips of the older "naturals" that I describe as being born with it. Something in their voices that I just don't have. Sorry it haunted you Fang LOL! I have said many times that BB just opens his mouth and the blues comes pouring out...and Buddy said he loved the way BB hit that note and just waved his hand, with that clean sound plugged straight in with no effects...he did not need them to play the blues...

My favorite instrumental blues is Sleep Walk. It hit the rock and roll classic charts with a bang, but for me it's a blues. That trick of going from Fmajor to Fminor in the same song is found in a few of the songs I do like: Since I Fell For You 1945, where I think Santo and Johnny got the idea for their '59 tune. Brian Setzer does my favorite version of Sleep Walk with a ton of improvisation...which is the key to the Blues, Jazz, Blue Grass and Rock and Roll instrumental music that I love to hear... cool


Edited by Larryz (08/24/17 10:10 AM)
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#2875102 - 08/25/17 05:18 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Well, I was more or less being facetious with the Guy Mitchell thing. wink

https://youtu.be/BrBpT05be18

But it was just a thought. And you give the impression that you might not consider John Mayall to be a respectable bluesman, and I thought the fact that HE doesn't have that "blues voice" you seem to think somebody HAS to have might have loosened you up a bit too. And my mention of Freddie King was to point out you don't ALWAYS have to SING blues, nor is it always about playing or singing in minor keys.

But I like that connection you made with "Sleepwalk" and "Since I Fell For You". Heh. Never took notice of it before. wink

And if you DID listen to the Josh White clip I posted you'd have noticed TOO, that he wasn't also that "bluesy" a singer. Not in the B.B. or Buddy vein at least. Actually, it SOUNDED quite "pitchy" and crackly at times, but the EMOTION was there.

And BTW..I think the world of Brian Setzer, but still prefer the Santo and Johnny original "Sleepwalk". wink
Whitefang
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#2875145 - 08/25/17 07:24 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVaypxYh8aY <---here's Marty...I prefer this version and "blues voice" over the whistle dude LOL!

What you may someday notice Fang, is you do not have to have that "blues voice" I'm talking about like BB and many of the black blues greats have (i.e. as you are trying to point out with your John Mayall clip). The country white blues voice that I pointed out in the clips I posted from Oh Brother Where Art Thou go back to 1928. Eric Clapton and Johnny Winter are a couple of white guys that have good "blues voices". All you really have to do is be into it and you too can sing the blues. I'm not into the vibe and don't have the right pipes for it IMHO. If you are not into the blues or any other genre for that matter, don't bother singing it...that's my rule, it doesn't apply to everybody to include you.

"And you give the impression that you might not consider John Mayall to be a respectable bluesman" when you make comments like this, you state something I did not say or that you feel I infer. It's not true...and I don't listen to every clip you post nor do I listen to John Mayall. I do like old jump blues and rock and roll based upon blues chords and scale patterns. I hope you'll give Marty Robbins a chance (as posted above) for a minute or two. But if you don't, I won't comment on what you may or may not have inferred.

The Brian Setzer version is an example of improvisation on a theme. I enjoy both his and the original version. For instrumentals, I loved The Ventures version. My Ventures buddies and I played it wrong back in the 60's. We use C Am F G. It's actually C Am Fm G. I like the wrong way as when you go to that Fmajor to Fminor in the bridge, the change really stands out more, if you are using Fmajor in the verse throughout. Setzer plays the chords correctly and also adds a ton of jazz and passing chords to the tune. My version uses C Am G# G, C Am Fminor G in the intro and then C Am F G throughout (i.e the way me and the boys used to play it). Which sounds more like the Ventures IMHO. It's all a matter of taste. What you like and who you listen to is for your enjoyment...and yes, those two songs Sleep Walk and Since I Fell For You, have a lot in common and I'm glad you can hear the similarities I'm thinking of when I play and sing them... cool


Edited by Larryz (08/25/17 07:29 AM)
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#2875241 - 08/25/17 03:06 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
And what YOU may someday notice Larry, is that I mean to imply that it isn't how GOOD you sing when singing a blues tune, it's what you sing and the meaning you put into it is what counts. It don't HAVE to be "pretty" or some percieved notion of what "soulful" is, as blues is one genre that has NO such requirements for it's execution. Meaning basically, if you think you're better suited for COUNTRY music vocals, you could probably pull off blues, because the EMOTION is really the same.

I mean, you proved my point by claiming MARTY ROBBINS has a "blues voice". And I doubt that Marty would have considered himself a "blues" singer. I can almost hear him say, "I'm just a country boy doin' the best I can." wink And I'D say that MY voice isn't good for blues. OR rock, country or even folk. But whenever any band I was in would do a blues tune, the rest of the band insisted that I do the vocals because for some strange reason, they thought I was BETTER at it than they were. Go figure....
Whitefang

Oh, and BTW....since you HAD a "Ventures" band, lemme ask.....

When some of us early on would play "Walk, Don't run" we'd play Am, G, F,E. But listening closely, I though I instead heard the first chord a Amaj. Right or wrong? Or am I remembering something wrong...


Edited by whitefang (08/25/17 03:19 PM)
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#2875252 - 08/25/17 03:51 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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+1 Marty has too sweet of a "blues voice" to be a real blues singer and you can have a raspy voice like Taj Mahal, Janis Joplin or Joe Cocker, that I love, and sound sweet singing the blues...

Funny, but in the movie Hamburger Hill, the black guys in the platoon make fun of the white guys singing this same song (i.e. Singing the Blues) and really lay that yodel part on thick LOL!

I know we used Amajor G F E for Walk Don't Run...In Pipeline for the chorus run down we used Am G F and back to G then repeat and go down to E...but when I play Pipeline and/or when I'm adlibbing a on a surf vibe, I like to just keep using Am G F E...we would run these two tunes together along with a couple more in a surf medley, much like what Junior Brown does. We did pretty good for some high school kids [picking] out the songs by ear, wearing holes in our 33 rpm's LOL! When we go back over some of those tunes these days, my lead guitar guy says we were playing some of the chords wrong back in those days and I tell him, that's cuz I was play'in the rhythm guitar LOL! I get accused of being the chord master and/or jazzing it up. But playing rhythm guitar in that old high school band really helped me with my back up guitar for my vocals/solo act...the lead players get all the credit but the rhythm player is what makes them sound good! Now if you're Jeff Beck, Jimi or SRV, you don't need no chord hacker like me! cool


Edited by Larryz (08/25/17 09:50 PM)
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#2875312 - 08/26/17 05:11 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Well, in "Pipeline" the Am is clear. But many years after first playing "Walk, don't Rn", I was listening to it on an "oldies" radio station, and on better sound equipment that the old portable "phonograph" I wore the old 45 of mine to translucence on, and it DID then sound like A and not Am. DUH! I should just do a "google" search, eh? wink

As for Marty....Yeah, sure. Had a "sweet" voice, but still managed to get the "blue" across. Meaning you don't HAVE to have some particular sounding pipes in order to BE a "blues" singer. Just like "husk and growl" and running up and down the scales five or six times on one syllable DOESN'T necessarily make anyone a "soul" singer. Joan Armitrading for example, manages to get TONS of soul in an otherwise "smooth as silk" sounding voice. smile

BTW...I had that old Guy Mitchell tune on an old 78 once and it always made me laugh. grin
Whitefang
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#2875331 - 08/26/17 07:54 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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You could do a google search or you can just grab your guitar. Try it both ways and you'll find that Amajor is the way to go on Walk Don't Run...





cool
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#2875446 - 08/27/17 05:12 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9866
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
There WERE other tunes( I think) that used an Am-G-F-E pattern BEFORE WDR, and The Ventures just changed it up. But a lot of guys just never bothered to notice is what probably happened.

That "google search" BTW, took me to a few places with a couple having it as Am, and a couple of others at Amaj. crazy
Whitefang
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#2875457 - 08/27/17 07:27 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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You play by ear don't you? I'll bet you'll like the Amajor for WDR...for all other tunes, I use the Aminor and play the lead using the Aminor scale. The Aminor is more bluesy and Latin sounding. cool
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#2875500 - 08/27/17 02:56 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Safe bet. Since WDR IS an "upbeat" kind of tune, Amaj works better. wink For me at least.
Whitefang
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#2875528 - 08/27/17 06:47 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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A couple of bluesy tunes you can do using Aminor G F E are Stray Cat Strut by Brian Setzer and 16 Tons by Merle Travis... cool
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#2875560 - 08/28/17 04:13 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
THERE ya go! wink
Whitefang
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#2875601 - 08/28/17 08:19 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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My prayers and best wishes go out to all those good people down in Texas! It's why I have the blues today...



cool

ps. Hope you are OK up in Dallas Texas DannyA!


Edited by Larryz (08/28/17 02:36 PM)
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#2875722 - 08/29/17 04:28 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Cripes! I go off the rails if a little water backs up from the basement drains. I can't IMAGINE what those poor folks are enduring down there. And it's what the KIDS are suffering is what bothers me the most.
Whitefang
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#2875853 - 08/29/17 04:31 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=swhEa8vuP6U


As far as how bad that scene is ....can't help pointing out there was a worse situation in New Orleans w/ Katrina
Dig
The Storms
Katrina: It made landfall near the Louisiana/Mississippi border on Aug. 29, 2005, as a Category 3 storm and measured 350 miles across. However, the relatively low classification, based on wind speed, was deceptive because Katrina produced the highest storm surge ever recorded in the United States.
Harvey: It made landfall in Rockport, Tex., on Friday as a Category 4 storm, measuring 200 miles across, but was quickly downgraded. As of Monday, it was expected to linger for days, causing the National Weather Service to warn, “This event is unprecedented and all impacts are unknown.”
Deaths and Damage
Katrina: One of the deadliest hurricanes ever to strike the United States, Katrina was responsible for 1,833 deaths, and some bodies were untouched for days. The storm inflicted more than $100 billion in damage, with most of it caused by wind, storm surge and the failure of the levees. Katrina also left three million people across the region without power.
Harvey: Local officials have reported at least 10 deaths in Texas since the storm began, and the number could rise. Heavy rains and flooding are expected to continue at least through Friday, and most of the damage could be caused by flooding.

Armed police immediately roamed the streets of the Crescent City.
Think we'll see that in Houston ?

"And Everybody Wanna Know Why I Sing The Blues"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJrZ1LAOLYQ&spfreload=5
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#2875952 - 08/30/17 09:08 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: d]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Northern California
Katrina was very bad...could have been much worse the predictions of a direct hit were 10,000 deaths. New Orleans was built below sea level and the levees broke. The pumps (that could have saved the day) didn't work cuz the vandals took the handles (actually due to no electricity but Bob Dylan wrote about such levee failures in his song posted below). Houston had many floods and the shipping channel Houston built to become a port city, may have had something to do with the flood of 1929.



cool
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#2876084 - 08/31/17 05:02 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
It doesn't matter which one was worse. It's the worst since Katrina, and hopefully FEMA has it's kinks all worked out.
Whitefang
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#2876114 - 08/31/17 07:40 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Katrina hit in August too...it was in 2005. It doesn't seem that long ago, but it was 12 years ago. All of the private citizens showing up with their boats to help in the evacuation of the Harvey victims, is a God send. cool
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#2876123 - 08/31/17 08:26 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
All of the private citizens showing up with their boats to help in the evacuation of the Harvey victims, is a God send. cool


Reminds me of Dunkirk; the call goes out & the civilian fleet just shows up & knows what to do. In spite of all the divisiveness, when people need help, people help.
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#2876197 - 08/31/17 04:11 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Scott Fraser]
JuJu Kwan Offline
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There are weather related events happening at an alarming rate all over the world, and some still don't get it. Having been through a major flood last summer, my thoughts go out to the people in Texas and Louisiana. Also to the forgotten weather event on the West coast, record setting heat.
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#2876234 - 08/31/17 08:50 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
Also to the forgotten weather event on the West coast, record setting heat.


Hottest day of the year so far in LA, 104 according to Google. Fortunately I was in my studio all day where it averaged about 82.
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#2876252 - 09/01/17 03:47 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Scott Fraser]
whitefang Offline
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OY! And here in MI, we're experiencing unseasonably cool weather. 55 as I'm typing this right now.

Not complaining, just noticing the oddness of it.
Whitefang
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#2876283 - 09/01/17 07:20 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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We are expecting 110 degrees today here in Northern Cal...hope it falls a little short of that mark! crazy
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#2877131 - 09/05/17 04:17 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
We just yesterday evening got some "spin-off" from Harvey up here in the form of thunderstorms and heavy rain. But the rain only lasted a half hour or so and caused no problem. But in other nearby counties they had "severe weather" watches and warnings until 11:00pm.
Whitefang
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#2877163 - 09/05/17 07:42 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Northern California
We hit 108 degrees and it's been a long hot summer! But, we are looking at a cool down into the 80's today, Yeah! We won't have to sing the blues now like James Taylor's tune: "I've seen Fire and I've seen Rain, I've seen sunny days that I thought would never end!" cool


Edited by Larryz (09/05/17 09:58 AM)
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