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#2869871 - 07/30/17 01:24 PM Why Me & Him / Why You ?
d Offline
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOnzDKvn7YI


Tell what y'think N know...
snax
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#2869876 - 07/30/17 02:02 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: d]
Larryz Offline
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I really don't sing the blues as I just don't have the right voice for it...but I do enjoy listening to BB tell us why he sings the blues! He always does a great job on Lucille, just like he does in that live performance! cool
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#2869884 - 07/30/17 02:59 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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I don't really know WHAT the "right voice" for singing the blues IS, but I imagine it would at least have to be on key, and not offensive to the ear, which is why I only sing the blues when nobody else is in the room. wink

But, what I can't do with the voice, I at least try to do on the guitar. And true enough, I've had enough in my life to sing the blues ABOUT. frown
Whitefang
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#2869901 - 07/30/17 06:23 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Nobody else does vibrato like that.
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#2869908 - 07/30/17 07:23 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Scott Fraser]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Nobody else does vibrato like that.


+1,000 Scott...

@ Fang, The right voice is how you feel about singing in the genre. I don't feel I have it. I'm more of a smoother Jazzy feel, Country Rock feel and old R&R feel. I can sing a little Stormy Monday but I just don't get into much more than that as I don't feel I can do the blues justice. Eric Clapton, Johnny Winter and others are good examples of those that can. I have always said BB just opens his mouth and the blues comes pouring out. If I could feel the vibe more, I would sing it more...I don't buy the I have to have had a rough time in my life to sing the blues bit... cool


Edited by Larryz (07/30/17 07:29 PM)
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#2869935 - 07/31/17 05:11 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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No, you don't, but it helps. It's what the ACTOR'S STUDIO folks call "sense/memory". I mean, there HAD to be SOMETHING in your life that made you feel bummed. Even if it's just your pet dog getting hit by a car when you were a kid. frown Think hard and bring THAT memory of how you felt then into it. wink
Whitefang
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#2869944 - 07/31/17 06:45 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Nobody else does vibrato like that.

Maybe, BBK def invented the standard but chk this...
[intro = 0:08~0:15]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yndfnaZbNYE


...but, L & WTF, y'all missing the why for the how.
Nixing the message for the media, as it were.
How is important but what is, uh, what it's all abt.

On w/ the show....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQQ_vl47CGc

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#2869954 - 07/31/17 07:06 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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I guess that's why I'm not interested in singing the blues. I'm not an actor and I don't care to think about being bummed when I'm singing. I do hear the blues influence in my playing and I love the chords and scales that go into it. I play a few bluesy tunes like Bob Dylan's Dear Landlord or the Marty Robbins version of Singing The Blues which I think Dylan got the idea for his Living The Blues tune. I do my blues version of Highway 61 too. I do a few of these tunes, but I don't want to cry over them and I don't care that much for sad songs either. I'm more into jump blues. I've had a long life with many bad times that could make me cry if I were to dwell on them. I have too much fun playing than to try using the technique and to quote Hank Jr. "I am into happy and I don't like sad"... cool
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#2869955 - 07/31/17 07:12 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
d Offline
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Actually, delivering the message of the blues isn't abt sadness but overcoming it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y6Sxv-sUYtM


Edited by d (07/31/17 07:20 AM)
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#2869957 - 07/31/17 07:13 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
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Well, the WHY should be obvious.

Because I LIKE to. I often find it a good and satisfying form of self expression. I like it's form and variety in delivery. Not chained to any particular "formula" in how it can be played or sung. Can make you laugh or cry, or laugh to KEEP rom cryin'.

Oh, and LARRY---

You said(among others) your voice has more of a "country rock" feel. Which can also be just a country feel. And the illustrious Mr. King DID once say, "Country music is just WHITE BOY blues!" wink
Whitefang
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#2869962 - 07/31/17 07:23 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
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Quote:
Well, the WHY should be obvious.

Seems so but somehow isn't.
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#2869970 - 07/31/17 07:45 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: d]
Larryz Offline
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@ Fang, I really don't have a country voice with all that nasal stuff going on. I'm more into country rock and jazzing up some old country. More of a Rockabilly guy... cool

@ D, Why? not sure...I like the blues but not for much longer than an hour at a time and I like it live better than on recordings for some reason... cool
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#2869996 - 07/31/17 09:11 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: d]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 4995
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: d
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Nobody else does vibrato like that.

Maybe, BBK def invented the standard but chk this...
[intro = 0:08~0:15]


There's something so tactile, like velvet, almost, more than sonic.

Anyway, but my real question is this: how the hell did I miss the Haynes-Trucks version of ABB until it was too late? I mean, this is what we call a trifecta. I have some researching to do.
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#2870086 - 07/31/17 02:40 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Originally Posted By: d
Actually, delivering the message of the blues isn't abt sadness but overcoming it.


No doubt. Move past it by getting it off your chest. I mean, just listen to a lot of B.B.'s stuff. He ain't "weepin' and moanin' " about his sadness, he's more or less telling his troubles where to get off!

And in a way, as a performer, even in music, you ARE somewhat of an "actor". You have to have SOME idea of how something expressed in some song's lyrics feels before trying to convincingly sing them. It's like what I read something singer/songwriter Joan Armitrading said about Marie Osmond....On the order of----"That little teeny-bop singin' all them love songs and it all sounding hollow. Then she grew up, got married and finally GOT her some, and THEN they started sounding real." wink
Whitefang
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#2870264 - 08/01/17 12:40 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Eric Iverson Offline
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Yes, that's often the case with young performers - their vocal interpretations don't sound "lived in" enough.

Case in point, Chris Thile, [no bluesman, LOL) whose vocals as a kid were too "earnest" somehow, for my taste anyway, though he was always a superb mandolinist. Now of course, he's grown up in many ways.

"Actors" - well, I think we're ALL actors to one degree or another if we expect to live in society.....

Re: blues being sad - BB said he didn't think the lyrics to "Sweet Little Angel" were sad:

I've got a sweet little angel
I love the way she spreads her wings

And there are others.

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#2870285 - 08/01/17 02:18 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Eric Iverson]
Larryz Offline
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Posts: 10192
Loc: Northern California
I think this was a cool interview with Johnny and BB...wish the video was better. Here' some happy blues with that Sweet Little Angel:



Johnny said just singing about it, makes you feel better...

cool cool


Edited by Larryz (08/01/17 02:20 PM)
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#2870300 - 08/01/17 04:25 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
d Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
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Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Dig how John Dawson Winter 3 plays a backup just like a horn section there on Angel.

Then at 5:30 they dip into the universal mind & go for the same lick !
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#2870334 - 08/01/17 10:26 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: d]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
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Loc: Northern California
thu
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#2870350 - 08/02/17 04:11 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Originally Posted By: Larryz
Johnny said just singing about it, makes you feel better...

cool cool


Uh....Well.....yeah. Ain't that what we be sayin'?

And really, Ain't that WHY we LIKE to PLAY music in the FIRST PLACE? wink

And anyway, THANK YOU!

Seeing Johnny Winter AND B.B. King in he same clip TOGETHER not only made my DAY, probably my WHOLE YEAR! love
Whitefang
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#2870390 - 08/02/17 07:26 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Northern California
Yeah, it's what we be sayin, that's [why]I went back and posted this interview/live playing video clip. It just sticks in my memory banks! Glad youse 2 like it! thu
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#2870400 - 08/02/17 08:02 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Scott Fraser]
d Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6080
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
...my real question is this: how the hell did I miss the Haynes-Trucks version of ABB until it was too late? I mean, this is what we call a trifecta. I have some researching to do.

Well, it's not too late.
They made several records + lotsa their shows are available online to audit when ya want.

If yer like me (& in some respects I think we have an affinity) y'may've dismissed Haynes as just another of the jam band mavens without actually hearing him.
Certainly by the end of the ABB he'd become a real titan of blues-derived techniques. He also wrote/cowrote much of their material, filling a collaborative role w/Gregg Allman that went in a diff direction than either Duane or Betts.

As for Trucks, my impression is that he started as an imitator but has become a true innovator, incorporating MidEastern microtonality into something new, if reminiscent of a space age Muddy Waters.
Many ignore that Waters was a master of deliberately offpitched notes.

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#2870401 - 08/02/17 08:08 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
Originally Posted By: d
Actually, delivering the message of the blues isn't abt sadness but overcoming it.


No doubt. Move past it by getting it off your chest. I mean, just listen to a lot of B.B.'s stuff. He ain't "weepin' and moanin' " about his sadness, he's more or less telling his troubles where to get off!

And in a way, as a performer, even in music, you ARE somewhat of an "actor". You have to have SOME idea of how something expressed in some song's lyrics feels before trying to convincingly sing them. It's like what I read something singer/songwriter Joan Armitrading said about Marie Osmond....On the order of----"That little teeny-bop singin' all them love songs and it all sounding hollow. Then she grew up, got married and finally GOT her some, and THEN they started sounding real." wink
Whitefang


Well file this somewhere between Just sayin, and FWIW-I think the message of punk-to the extent that I get it, and I get the message 90% more than I get the music-the message was, that if you are pissed off don`t wrap that up in some kind of neat package so no one will choke-be pissed off, put the emotion first. I mean, music is supposed to be a medium, right? I do agree with that part.
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#2870449 - 08/02/17 11:04 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: skipclone 1]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Short answer- I love the sound and feel and want to get inside it.
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#2870710 - 08/03/17 02:40 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Let's all thank Caev for paring down our collective ten or so dozen words to a simple, concise to the point 12! thu
Whitefang
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#2870712 - 08/03/17 02:50 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
desertbluesman Offline
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The blues, is sweet music as played by BB. I did see BB live once at a venue in Sun City West Arizona. He had to be helped to the stage, they sat him down, and handed Lucille to him, and he proceeded to make me like his work more than I ever did before, which was a big bunch. His showmanship was absolutely great, his playing was as always, sweet simple and pure. His banter between songs was as interesting as his playing. I went home suitably impressed. Whatever I paid for the tickets was well worth it.

I don't actually play the blues, I consider what I do blues based rock.
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#2870728 - 08/03/17 04:41 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: skipclone 1]
Bottom End Offline
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Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
I think the message of punk-to the extent that I get it, and I get the message 90% more than I get the music-the message was, that if you are pissed off don`t wrap that up in some kind of neat package so no one will choke-be pissed off, put the emotion first. I mean, music is supposed to be a medium, right? I do agree with that part.
IIRC, the message of punk was "do what you want to do, and do it yourself" it was a way to broke out of the "corporate" structure the music world had become in the '70's. Though most people equate guitar based anger and thrashing rage with punk, many bands of various sorts of music took that DIY ethic and made all sorts of music, which made for a lot of great hits as well as import-only undergound stuff, too.

As for BB King, I had the great fortune to see him multiple times over 15 years, and even in the later years he still put it all out on stage, that voice, and Lucille, giving the lie to his age.

As for another King, check out the PBS special with Albert King and Stevie Ray Vaughn.
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#2870734 - 08/03/17 05:35 PM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: Bottom End]
desertbluesman Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bottom End

As for another King, check out the PBS special with Albert King and Stevie Ray Vaughn.


Saw it several times, great show that one.
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If it sounds good, it is good !!
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#2870758 - 08/04/17 03:53 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: desertbluesman]
whitefang Offline
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Saw B.B. long ago at the Grande pre-"The Thrill Is Gone" reknown.

A few "underground" FM stations played his stuff before AM got ahold of "Thrill".

And that Albert and Stevie show IS a great one. wink
Whitefang
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#2871019 - 08/05/17 04:36 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: whitefang]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
BTW:

Tv Station THIS/Detroit played the movie "Crossroads" yesterday, in which actor Joe Seneca, as an old bluesman named Willie Brown, says, "The blues ain't nothin' but a good man feelin' bad." And in another part tells Ralph Macchio's character, You got the FLASH but it's lackin' somethin' "

And when asked, "what?" replies, "MILEAGE!" wink

I always took it to mean that you don't approach blues academically. I know it's just a movie, but it made sense to me.
Whitefang
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#2871078 - 08/05/17 08:52 AM Re: Why Me & Him / Why You ? [Re: d]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Registered: 03/20/05
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Originally Posted By: d
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
...my real question is this: how the hell did I miss the Haynes-Trucks version of ABB until it was too late? I mean, this is what we call a trifecta. I have some researching to do.

Well, it's not too late.
They made several records + lotsa their shows are available online to audit when ya want.


Sure, though too late to catch them live.

Quote:
If yer like me (& in some respects I think we have an affinity) y'may've dismissed Haynes as just another of the jam band mavens without actually hearing him.


Check.

Quote:
Certainly by the end of the ABB he'd become a real titan of blues-derived techniques. He also wrote/cowrote much of their material, filling a collaborative role w/Gregg Allman that went in a diff direction than either Duane or Betts.


Writing well is generally not the province of jam bands. Nothing in the guitar press led to think I should pay attention to him. But as far as note shaping I'm definitely wanting to look a lot further into his ouevre.

Quote:
As for Trucks, my impression is that he started as an imitator but has become a true innovator, incorporating MidEastern microtonality into something new, if reminiscent of a space age Muddy Waters.


Well, he started quite young, so we saw him start out as a talented, but not fully formed, kid. Now he's a mature artist. I think he's been watching Jeff Beck play slide. There's some very Eastern ornamentation going on there, zipping around both sides of the pitch, rather than just approaching it from below.

Quote:
Many ignore that Waters was a master of deliberately offpitched notes.


I'm kind of thinking, at least in this clip, that this is not so much deliberately subverting proper pitch, as much as not concerning himself with pitch as the primary issue. The main event is getting the emotion out.
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