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#2870060 - 07/31/17 01:07 PM Re: Need some advice on Piano VI's [Re: Ashville.Guru]
CaptainUnderpant Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 06/15/12
Posts: 647
Loc: Long Beach, CA
Originally Posted By: Ashville.Guru
Originally Posted By: CaptainUnderpant
Keyscape - I love the Rhodes in Keyscape. This alone is reason for me to own Keyscape. It is buttery smooth and luscious.

VI piano - I have pianoteq, and have enjoyed it. But once I got the Ravenscroft, pianoteq got put to the back burner. Ravenscroft has a more organic sound with a much greater richness.

I haven't yet messed around with layering pianos.

Captain, have you tried the built-in layered presets in Keyscape? There's one or two where the C7 is layered with the Upright.

My question is more about how resource-hungry it is, than tonal aspects. If you hit dozens of notes with the pedal down, does the CPU hit 100%, do you hear glitches?

- Guru


Just loaded up Keyscape and tried maxing out some of the "Hybrid" (Layered) keyboards samples. With the sustain peddle held down. I mashed on my 88 key controller. The monitor in Cantabile shows about 30% typical max load, with one patch getting to 40% once. Load times took quite a while however. But I would always load all patches into memory for performances, so in practice this would not be a problem.

I have no issues running any patches in Keyscape.

System: RME Fireface UCX USB 2.0 interface running 128 samples
Core i7-7700k Kaby Lake quad core at 4.2, Asus Rog strix Z270i, Corsair vengeance 32GB (2x16) memory, Samsung 960 Pro M.2 512GB NVMe, Corsair Hydro series H60 cooler, Lian Li PC-TU100B mini ITX lunch box size case, 10" Mimo monitor HDMI touch screen.

_________________________
Yamaha S90XS, Studiologic VMk-161 Organ
Small/powerful (i7, 32GB, M.2 SSD) PC controlled by 10" Touch Screen
Cantabile, Ravenscroft 275, Keyscape, OPX-II, Omnisphere 2, VB3, Chris Hein Horns, etc.

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KC Island
#2870072 - 07/31/17 01:52 PM Re: Need some advice on Piano VI's [Re: CaptainUnderpant]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6315
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Hey, Underpants. This isn't the result for most laptops being used in rigs for VIs, so thanks for sharing the specs for your custom box because it definitely gives people an idea of what they will need to use this application live (at home in studio where you can freeze tracks is a different story).

Since Keyscape is really a piano player's collection, the real test is piano playing techniques - in particular glisses, trems, arps, and the like with heavy pedal use at low latency (32, 64, 128 buffer) without the need to turn on sample thinning. Keyscape is only capable of 64 note poly - and they say reduce to 16 or 10 voices if your PC is choking. They also say to use at 44.1 or 48k live (not a big deal but indicates it's a resource heavy app), disable fx and disable streaming. If one is using anything less than the rig Underpants has put together... then one has to be aware that Keyscape for all it's goodness might not run well on your computer and you might be better off sticking with Kontakt and libraries that make use of that engine. The Keyscape/Omnisphere STEAM engine is a fricking resource hog and sounds great for it. But they could definitely work on optimizing it and the price of high end PCs can keep falling (for those that are not comfortable building their own).

I haven't tried the UVI player yet, anyone have any experience with that one?
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

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#2870137 - 08/01/17 04:08 AM Re: Need some advice on Piano VI's [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Lee T Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/15
Posts: 119
Loc: North West UK
Well I loaded up Keyscape (something appeared to be wrong with the USB drives as it took an age, several hours, to load).
Some lovely sounds out of the box and I'm getting no glitches on my MBP. I am glad though that I have Omnisphere because some of the stock patches needed some tweaking for my own tastes and the options I changed weren't available from the Keyscape GUI (the Wurli 200A in particular didn't appeal to me straight off).
Elmer, I also have UVI player for B5 and it appears to work fine, but in practice I don't see a lot of difference between that and STEAM in CPU usage. In some of my Gig Performer racks (patches) I am running 3 or 4 instances of Omnisphere without any issues, plus a Kontakt piano patch.
_________________________
So many drummers, so little time.

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#2878995 - 09/13/17 07:38 PM Re: Need some advice on Piano VI's [Re: Ashville.Guru]
chas50 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 129
Originally Posted By: Ashville.Guru
[quote=chas50]my experience with it was mega glitching.
that was with a new laptop with an i5.
I just played it and really stressed it (lots of notes. lots of pedal), with a new desktop with an i7. 64 samples buffer size.
no glitching.
I think it used to glitch. (much to my chagrin and frustration after building what I thought was a strong desktop: NVMe M.2 SSD for sample libraries, a separate M.2 SSD for system, etc.)

This is really interesting. It looks like the CPU is the weakest link in the chain, and faster read/write speed via M.2 doesn't help. It has something to do with the way Spectrasonics has implemented streaming, I understand. I understand that you can avoid glitching by turning off streaming - at the cost of increased load times, and you'll need to max out your RAM. But that's where the M.2 would come to the rescue, I'd imagine.

I'm curious to know the exact model of the CPUs - both on your laptop and the desktop.

just saw this:
laptop i5 6300 HQ 2.30 GHz Quad core


desktop: i7 7700k

https://www.newegg.com/Product/NewProduc...520170913193307

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#2890273 - 11/14/17 01:19 PM Re: Need some advice on Piano VI's [Re: miden]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 8780
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Well, as I mentioned elsewhere, my 2017 iMac is up to the task of rendering with The Hammersmith Pro from orange Tree Samples, and I have been busily replacing all of my Pianoteq (even the much-improved v6) and Galaxy (usually Vintage D) Steinway tracks with this incredible library.

My 2010 MacPro (which died a few months back) couldn't handle it, so it was hard for me to judge at the time, and I almost regretted buying it, but not now!

This piano has the most articulateness and the best pedal handling of any Steinway library currently on the market -- with the caveat that I do not own the one from Garritan.

It is a bit brighter than the Galaxy Vintage D, but that's in the nature of the piano itself as it is a newer Steinway than the 1920 model that Galaxy chose. You can easily make it darker; no problem.

The interface is magnificent, and it explains quite clearly what you are really getting with the default settings and why they were chosen as the default.

I have experimented a lot, but prefer MOST of the defaults, with the exception of going for 25% addition to the stereo spread as I prefer a more intimate "closer to the piano" sound when doing jazz combo work.

The miking choices and techniques are the best of any piano library I have from any vendor. I'm very picky about mics.

I do not always want a Steinway sound. Ravenscroft 275 is my next-most-used piano now, as it is sort of in between a Steinway and Fazioli sound.

I often use Fazioli for stuff with fast repeated notes, and intend to do a more thorough shootout soon of TrueKeys Italian vs. Wavesfactory Mercury, which seems excellent in initial tests I have done with it.

For Yamaha, as mentioned earlier, I am torn a bit between Orange Tree Samples Rosewood Grand, and Impact Soundworks Pearl. They are different enough that they are redundant with each other. Both are well-recorded and quite flexible in adjusting depth etc.

The Hammersmith comes with a combination of unique impulses recorded from the piano or the original room, and stock room impulses from Kontakt itself. I tried them all, and still prefer to apply my own reverbs later in the processing chain, but the sound design oriented "all strings" impulses are useful to have.

Pianoteq 6 is such a huge step forward, and still by far the best for performing live (I mean when composing or improvising etc.; I don't use computers at gigs), that it really has to be the first recommendation to anyone just starting out.

Only if you get pushback on mock-ups (as I do) is it really necessary to then start considering the better sample libraries, but most of those don't react as well to the nuances of live playing as Pianoteq does. The ones I mention above are the easiest one to re-track with, with minimal MIDI editing.
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Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager

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#2897893 - 12/25/17 03:17 PM Re: Need some advice on Piano VI's [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 8780
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
I just bought Fluffy Audio's Scoring Piano for $53 on sale today. I had a $50 loyalty coupon; not sure how many received those. Added to its current mark-down, it seemed worth the risk, due to some excellent feedback from the few who have talked about it constructively.

Quite nice -- recorded well, with Schoeps and Audio-technica mics. It's a Steinway "B", and there aren't many libraries for that other than Pianoteq's modeled one. I hope to try it out on an atmospheric tune later today, as I never quite found the perfect match for that one.

This is a deep library, and fairly new, so probably already belongs in the Top Twenty list for most people. They have a special technique (via Kontakt scripting) to avoid phase issues with note overlap on repeated notes. This piano is specifically designed to sit well in a dense mix.
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager

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#2897924 - 12/25/17 06:06 PM Re: Need some advice on Piano VI's [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Stokely Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1891
Loc: Florida
I grabbed CFX lite since it was 59 (on sale from 79).

Sounds good, better tone than Addictive Keys IMO, but more intensive if I load the "Full" version of the patches (also takes way longer to load). Also finding it's more "sensitive", in that slight velocity changes can pretty radically change the sound and levels. That's probably a good thing, I'm just not used to it!

I was going to get a couple others instead...but iLok...I know it can be software only but I still hear too many stories about it. Hopefully there will be some non-iLok high-end pianos left when/if I upgrade my system at some point! (though after dealing with my wife's brand new dog of a macbook pro, I'm considering jumping ship for windows, which means moving on from Logic...which means I need to fill in some gaps left by Logic's built-in instruments...at this point, it would be an imac or windows; I'd prefer a laptop but I won't consider a new macbook pro now.)

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#2897928 - 12/25/17 06:44 PM Re: Need some advice on Piano VI's [Re: Stokely]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 8780
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Oh shoot, I thought the CFX sale had ended before Christmas! I just used my 15% additional coupon at Time+Space, but have a new 10% coupon so maybe should use that. I would have preferred Garritan's Steinway but this Yamaha consistently gets great reviews and it's the Yamaha model I prefer vs. the oft-recorded C7 model.
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager

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#2897946 - 12/25/17 11:27 PM Re: Need some advice on Piano VI's [Re: Mark Schmieder]
Mark Schmieder Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/08/05
Posts: 8780
Loc: San Francisco Bay Area
Fluffy Audio's Scoring Piano ended up being the perfect match for the ambient piece that I had swapped pianos on at least eight times so far. :-)

Perfect warmth and breadth, the "right size" in terms of the piano's sound stage, and every note articulates clearly so that it cuts through the dense mix even while sounding like it's in the background the entire time (as intended).

What an amazing library! I'm surprised it's been overlooked, but it's probably as the developer only recently (a few years ago, from my timeframe perspective) started making serious libraries vs. toys and freebies. Their new choir library sounds fantastic too, but I can't justify spending for it quite yet.
_________________________
Eugenio Upright, 60th P-Bass, Select J-Bass, Geddy Lee J-Bass, Yamaha BBP35, Viking Bari
Select Strat, Select Tele, Am Pro JM, LP 57 Gold Top, RS520T, T486-RB, ES295, PM2, EXL1
WX5, XK1c, Voyager

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