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Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems #2867418
07/17/17 01:47 PM
07/17/17 01:47 PM
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bluesharpbob Offline OP
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Figured I'd throw this out there to see if any other CP4 owners have had this problem. Love the keyboard , but some time after I'd been using it for a while a few black keys became wobbly- for lack of a better word. They still worked, but they moved back & forth a bit annoyingly. I thought that I had broken the keys somehow so I ordered replacements from Yamaha. After receiving them & opening the piano up to replace them ,I found out the keys weren't broken after all- it turned out a little rubber piece that sits on a plastic post under the key I believe is called a guide cap had become dislodged & had fallen under the key.This happened to three black leys - no problem at all with the white keys. The part looked fine, I put the three of them back & the keys were working perfectly again, but after playing a while a Bb key became shaky & I guess the piece became dislodged again. Anyone else out there run into something like this, or am I just lucky?

KC Island
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: bluesharpbob] #2867421
07/17/17 02:00 PM
07/17/17 02:00 PM
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Bobadohshe Offline
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It happened to a bunch of my CP4 keys. I had several wobbly black keys as well and was bummed. One day I had the board worked on for other reasons and the tech after completing my other work explained about these guide caps and how he'd reseated them at no charge. I think that since then I've had a couple wobbly keys return or possibly some new ones show up.


Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section
https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: Bobadohshe] #2867427
07/17/17 02:33 PM
07/17/17 02:33 PM
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WesG Offline
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I had some wobbly black keys due to accidental abuse. Kenheeter is my local tech and he had everything working perfectly by the time he put CP4 in its new chassis. No problems since.


Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3
Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H
Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85
Roland: VR-09
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: WesG] #2867435
07/17/17 03:02 PM
07/17/17 03:02 PM
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How are they seated? Perhaps they should be seated with rubber cement?

My experience with Roland in Kawai digital pianos led me to discover that the vertical plastic guide posts have pink or white silicone grease wiped on them to keep them quiet and that overtime the grease slides down the vertical guide rails and the keys begin to clack noisily.


Casio PX-S3000 | Mojo 61 | Rhodes 88 key Suitcase | Fender Rumble 40 Bass amp w/ Eminence speaker (17 lb) amazing! | Fender Champ tube amp clone (14 lb) | 1966 Mason & Hamlin | EV SxA360 speakers
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: WesG] #2867475
07/17/17 04:29 PM
07/17/17 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: WesG
Kenheeter is my local tech


Lucky you, Wes. thu


"Use what works. Gear is overrated." CEB
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: bluesharpbob] #2867636
07/18/17 02:48 PM
07/18/17 02:48 PM
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suffolk county,New York
bluesharpbob Offline OP
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Somewhat comforting to know I'm not alone ! LOl I guess I'll try putting glue or rubber cement on the one that fell off again as someone suggested, can't see how it could hurt & it sure beats removing all the screws to open the sucker up every time it happens! Seems like this is a bit of a design flaw.

Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: bluesharpbob] #2867646
07/18/17 04:13 PM
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I've been putting off opening the case to address the two black keys that wobble on my CP-4. Was afraid I'd open up a can of worms instead.

Thanks for posting this!

Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: PianoMan51] #2867672
07/18/17 06:19 PM
07/18/17 06:19 PM
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suffolk county,New York
bluesharpbob Offline OP
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Good luck, it's a lot of freakin' screws! If you've never done it before, here's a link to a video of how to pop the keys out- he's working on an s90 but the cp4 keys come out the same way. You have to remove the white keys on either side of a black one to get the black key out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8xM2H5EyfM

Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: bluesharpbob] #2867687
07/18/17 07:10 PM
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Thanks!

Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: PianoMan51] #2867714
07/18/17 09:11 PM
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Yamaha replaced my whole keyboard 3 years passed warranty expiration on my Cp1 a few months ago because of guide caps coming off. I had the problem repaired twice under warranty. The problem became more frequent after the warranty expired so I was opening up the keyboard once or twice a month. That is a heck of a lot of screws to undo and keep track of.
The caps only came off of black notes. The caps on the white notes all click into place. None of the black notes click onto the key guide.
I greatly appreciate the excellent customer service provided by Yamaha Canada.

Last edited by Pete the bean; 07/18/17 09:14 PM.
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: Pete the bean] #2867718
07/18/17 09:34 PM
07/18/17 09:34 PM
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That's Yamaha doing the right thing. Which I find they are usually good about... even if you go to a Yamaha certified repair shop - when they call it in, Yamaha usually says it's a go to do the repair as a warranty job. Of course, particularly on their higher end stuff.


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2867744
07/18/17 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
That's Yamaha doing the right thing.


That's true. There have been numerous examples given over the years of Yamaha going beyond, sometimes well beyond, the warranty period to fix issues. But the CP-1 came out 7.5 years ago and this appears to be a fairly regular problem across the CP line that they have yet to properly address.

Busch.

Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: burningbusch] #2867749
07/19/17 01:02 AM
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That's true - Yamaha replaced motherboard in my 1997 AN1x for free in 2015 - 17 years after warranty expiration.


Korg GrandStage|NS3C|P155
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: bluesharpbob] #2868498
07/22/17 01:04 PM
07/22/17 01:04 PM
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bluesharpbob Offline OP
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Update to my post - Went back in & Put a small amount of Gorilla white glue on the Bb guide cap that fell off again.The package says it "bonds virtually anything", but then the fine print on the back says,"not for use on polyethylene or polypropylene plastics"- not sure what the guide caps are made of so I've got my fingers crossed. Seems to be working fine so far, did it a few days ago. Doing my first gig since gluing it tonight so this will be the real test.
Also contacted Yamaha customer support about this problem & gave them a link to this forum. This was their reply-
"Thank you for contacting Yamaha Support. This is not an issue that I am aware of in the support department. I will forward your inquiry about the CP4 Model to the right department."

Last edited by bluesharpbob; 07/22/17 01:09 PM.
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: bluesharpbob] #2868503
07/22/17 01:16 PM
07/22/17 01:16 PM
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WesG Offline
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Cue Bad Mister?


Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3
Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H
Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85
Roland: VR-09
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: burningbusch] #2868518
07/22/17 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted By: burningbusch
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
That's Yamaha doing the right thing.


That's true. There have been numerous examples given over the years of Yamaha going beyond, sometimes well beyond, the warranty period to fix issues. But the CP-1 came out 7.5 years ago and this appears to be a fairly regular problem across the CP line that they have yet to properly address.

Busch.


It's also true that Yamaha doesn't like to admit a flaw. They will fix and even replace till the cows come home before doing a recall of some kind. At least that's my experience in the US anyway.


Live: Casio PX-560, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k, Yamaha S90ES
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: ElmerJFudd] #2869857
07/30/17 01:49 PM
07/30/17 01:49 PM
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suffolk county,New York
bluesharpbob Offline OP
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Ok- have done 2 gigs & many hours of playing, the gorilla glue has stood the test so far. I noticed an Eb key that hadn't been loose before now is & I don't think it happened while I was playing. My theory at this point is perhaps they get loosened from playing, & when I put the keyboard in it's case & stand it up on it's side they fall off.
I'm glad to hear from others that Yamaha backs up their products even after the warranty is up , but I use the CP4 too often to have it laid up in the shop for any significant period of time. I've been doing my own repairs for many years on all sorts of keyboards so I'm comfortable going this route. Bottom line is the repair seems to work - will update if one I've fixed falls off again.

Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: bluesharpbob] #2938129
07/16/18 07:17 PM
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Any update on how your repair did over time? Bluesharpbob?

I just discovered one black Eb that acts like the problem described here.

Barry


Barry

Home: Steinway L, just sold Bob Schleicher A100 chop, now selling 142 Leslie.

Gigs: Yamaha CP4, Crumar Mojo 61, A&H QU-SB mixer, MiPro 909 IEMs
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: Barryjam] #2938130
07/16/18 07:21 PM
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I have quite a few keys suffering with this malady right now too.


Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section
https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: Bobadohshe] #2939570
07/26/18 04:10 AM
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I now have a black key wobbling on the replacement keyboard sent out just over a year ago. Damn I hate the thought of the 2 hours devoted to removing and keeping track of all the screws that need to come out to get to the keyboard. : (


Yamaha CP1 UHL X3-2 QSC K10's
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: Pete the bean] #2939587
07/26/18 08:25 AM
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Are you transporting the keyboard in any position but flat on itís back? I wonder if they are vibrating loose. Also, when you take it apart, it might be time to take them all off and gluing them on.


CP4, ZXA1, CA93, SP-6
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: Coker] #2939606
07/26/18 10:39 AM
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You guys do realize that you're talking me out of a CP4, right?

Grey


I'm not interested in someone's ability to program. I'm interested in their ability to compose and play.
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: GRollins] #2939610
07/26/18 11:32 AM
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I just got one....


Rudy

Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: RudyS] #2939666
07/26/18 03:37 PM
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GRollins, key cap guides are not a biggy to the point that this should dissuade you. I had a couple loose keys for about 2 years before I read on this site that this was specific problem. I just thought I was wearing out the keybed because I play aggressively (pound). When I found out how easy it was to fix it, i took it apart, put a spot of thread lock on the offending guides, buttoned it all up, and all is good. The good news is that this fix requires you only to pop the hood, not to remove the action. I think it took less than an hour end to end. By the way, after four years this action still feels like new, unlike a couple Rolands I have had in the past.


CP4, ZXA1, CA93, SP-6
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: Coker] #2939678
07/26/18 04:53 PM
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On the Cp1 it is more than pop the hood. There are many screws to remove to get to the action. You have to get to and undo all the action screws so you can shift the action far enough forward to pop the key out to get at the cap.
I can do the repair myself but it I have to be very organized to keep all the screws in order. There are many and all seem to be different sizes.
As far as transporting it flat, I do that, but the keyboard gets tipped vertical transporting it to my car on the hand truck.

Last edited by Pete the bean; 07/26/18 04:59 PM.

Yamaha CP1 UHL X3-2 QSC K10's
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: GRollins] #2939706
07/26/18 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: GRollins
You guys do realize that you're talking me out of a CP4, right?

Grey


I love the board but it really is something worth considering.


Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section
https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: Bobadohshe] #2939722
07/26/18 08:36 PM
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What the heck are you guys doing? I am ROUGH on gear but have never issues that weren't abuse-related. My CP4 travels in a Gator GK-88-Slim.


Hammond: L111, M100, M3, BC, CV, Franken CV, A100, D152, C3, B3
Leslie: 710, 760, 51C, 147, 145, 122, 22H, 31H
Yamaha: CP4, DGX-620, DX7II-FD-E!, PF85
Roland: VR-09
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: WesG] #2939748
07/26/18 11:25 PM
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Originally Posted By: WesG
What the heck are you guys doing? I am ROUGH on gear but have never issues that weren't abuse-related. My CP4 travels in a Gator GK-88-Slim.


I use the exact same case and am rough on gear too. Just using the hell out of it. Probably 150 hits a year with several sets each. Load in load out load in load out load in load out, smash keys smash keys smash keys smash keys.


Kawai C-60 Grand Piano : Hammond A-100 : Hammond SK2 : Yamaha CP4 : Yamaha Montage 7 : Moog Sub 37

My latest album: Funky organ, huge horn section
https://bobbycressey.bandcamp.com/album/cali-native
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: Bobadohshe] #2939753
07/27/18 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted By: Bobadohshe

I use the exact same case and am rough on gear too. Just using the hell out of it. Probably 150 hits a year with several sets each. Load in load out load in load out load in load out, smash keys smash keys smash keys smash keys.


post of the month. keys twothumbs


"Use what works. Gear is overrated." CEB
Re: Yamaha CP4 key guide cap problems [Re: davedoerfler] #2939940
07/27/18 07:20 PM
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I've reviewed keyboard technique books and could find no reference to this "smash keys" approach. Is this inborn talent or does it require painstaking and systematic practice?


Barry

Home: Steinway L, just sold Bob Schleicher A100 chop, now selling 142 Leslie.

Gigs: Yamaha CP4, Crumar Mojo 61, A&H QU-SB mixer, MiPro 909 IEMs
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