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#2867361 - 07/17/17 06:00 AM Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller
bourniplus Offline
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Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 476
Loc: Québec
Hey guys, I'm in the brainstorming phase for one of my next projects, a controller made with an acoustic piano action and a Pianodisc sensor, intended for live use. I've already done some tests with an old grand action and I'm surprised with how good the velocity response is without any adjustment. So, which range would YOU find the most useful? I'm thinking of either:
-E1 to A6
or
-G1 to C7
It HAS to be 66. (Or a multiple of 22...:))
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#2867374 - 07/17/17 06:57 AM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: bourniplus]
AnotherScott Online   content
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I've thought in the past that, as much as people wish for 7x 2nd-tier boards, 69 keys would often be sufficient, as the biggest problem I have with 61 is not enough keys on the bottom for LH bass. Top C is fine, I just want to go down to that low E! So you might think I'd pick the E to A option, but I think I'd have a tough time losing any top keys below that C. I certainly wouldn't want to lose going to high C on an un/semi weighted board (so necessary for organ), but I'm not sure how I'd feel about it for piano either.

Since your 66 could be "seen" as a "61 plus some extra," I think the most comfortable thing for most users might be to encompass the full usual 61, which probably means either G to C or C to F. I'd be inclined to one of those, as opposed to your E to A option. (Then again, people didn't seem to be thrown by the to-key F-to-E range of the Clavinet...)
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#2867379 - 07/17/17 07:25 AM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: AnotherScott]
stoken6 Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
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Multiple of 22, you say? I vote for A0 to C8, which is 88 notes. That's always my preferred range for a controller made from a Pianodisc sensor.
laugh

Cheers, Mike.

(Joke, not snark - I hope that's obvious).


Edited by stoken6 (07/17/17 07:25 AM)
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#2867380 - 07/17/17 07:25 AM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: AnotherScott]
mate stubb Online   content
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A Chroma and a Wurli are 64 keys A to C. Add a couple on the bottom and make it G to C.
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#2867381 - 07/17/17 07:27 AM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: AnotherScott]
The Piano Man Offline
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I quite liked the Roland RD64 approach of starting on the low A. It's just a pity I hated the keybed action, disliked the sounds, was put off by the extra length for controls, found the external power supply annoying, disliked the lack of overlapping zoning possibilities.

So yeh, I liked that it started on the low A 🙂
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#2867383 - 07/17/17 07:31 AM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: The Piano Man]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Yes, A-to-C has some precedent. So, if you have two more keys to add, do you go A-to-D or G-to-C?
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#2867388 - 07/17/17 07:48 AM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: AnotherScott]
mate stubb Online   content
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So what will a 66 note grand action weigh? Do you leave the hammers on for proper feel, and what do they strike? Inquiring minds want to know.

And pics. Lots of pics.
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#2867391 - 07/17/17 07:54 AM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: The Piano Man]
drawback Online   content
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Originally Posted By: The Piano Man
I quite liked the Roland RD64 approach of starting on the low A. It's just a pity I hated the keybed action, disliked the sounds, was put off by the extra length for controls, found the external power supply annoying, disliked the lack of overlapping zoning possibilities.


laugh Well said - my experience too. And A to shining C is the most intuitive and least confounding. So if you must go 66, I'd vote to begin at G.

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#2867392 - 07/17/17 07:56 AM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: AnotherScott]
KeyMoe Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Yes, A-to-C has some precedent. So, if you have two more keys to add, do you go A-to-D or G-to-C?


My vote would be G-to-C if we are voting.
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#2867411 - 07/17/17 09:27 AM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: KeyMoe]
J. Dan Offline
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Too bad you can't squeeze in a few more keys, and I'd vote E to C. But if you have to do groups of 22, I'd have to say go to 88.
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#2867433 - 07/17/17 10:58 AM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: J. Dan]
mate stubb Online   content
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Remember this is a controller for gigging. Ever tried to heft the action alone from a grand piano?
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#2867536 - 07/17/17 06:38 PM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: mate stubb]
bourniplus Offline
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Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 476
Loc: Québec
Thanks for all your answers!

Originally Posted By: mate stubb
So what will a 66 note grand action weigh? Do you leave the hammers on for proper feel, and what do they strike? Inquiring minds want to know.
And pics. Lots of pics.

Actually I was thinking of using an upright action for this particular project, I might keep the grand action for something else I have in mind. In a best-case scenario (and I'm a bit dreaming awake), I'd like to have the hammers striking... strings. smile I'm not really aiming for lightweight, but more of a "can fit in a minivan" kind of thing. I still have a bit of decision-making before I actually grab the saw, but I'll make sure to let you guys know how this turns out!
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#2867537 - 07/17/17 06:44 PM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: bourniplus]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: bourniplus
I'd like to have the hammers striking... strings. smile I'm not really aiming for lightweight, but more of a "can fit in a minivan" kind of thing.

Take a weekend and drive the minivan to North Carolina, and save yourself a lot of effort...

www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-CP70-B-/263056108395
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#2867543 - 07/17/17 07:01 PM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: AnotherScott]
J. Dan Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: bourniplus
I'd like to have the hammers striking... strings. smile I'm not really aiming for lightweight, but more of a "can fit in a minivan" kind of thing.

Take a weekend and drive the minivan to North Carolina, and save yourself a lot of effort...

www.ebay.com/itm/Yamaha-CP70-B-/263056108395


I'd bet Kanker still has one laying around in his garage. He might even pay you to take it off his hands grin
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#2867544 - 07/17/17 07:07 PM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: J. Dan]
WesG Offline
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You don't need to drive to North Carolina, just Eastern Ontario. I know a guy with one for sale. Unless it sold already (doubt it). Knowing this guy, it would be in great playing shape, too.
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#2867551 - 07/17/17 07:53 PM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: WesG]
mate stubb Online   content
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Fantastic idea to start with a CP. Already has a nice action, strings if you want them and none if you don't, portable.

You could leave 6 keys off the midi scanner, or figure out a way to surgically cut a sensor board down.
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#2867615 - 07/18/17 08:30 AM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: bourniplus]
Wastrel Offline
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Registered: 05/13/09
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Originally Posted By: bourniplus

It HAS to be 66. (Or a multiple of 22...:))

I was hoping someone else would ask so I wouldn't have to expose my ignorance, but is it the Pianodisc sensor that dictates multiples of 22? As in it comes in four 22 note sections for an 88 key piano? It seems like an unusual grouping as it isn't a power of two or a number of octaves.
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#2867717 - 07/18/17 05:30 PM Re: Survey: range for a 66-note piano controller [Re: Wastrel]
bourniplus Offline
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Registered: 04/11/05
Posts: 476
Loc: Québec
Originally Posted By: Wastrel
is it the Pianodisc sensor that dictates multiples of 22?

Indeed, at least the ones I have are like this. This is what they look like.
http://www.pianodisc.com/products/details.aspx?id=43309 (picture in the bottom in the middle)
They "might" be modified, but the circuit boards have chips and such... not something I'll attempt. I have a few of these lying around, so I figured I'd try to do something with them. I just installed one in a small spinet piano, I'm hoping to take that little beast on gigs!
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