Music Player Network Home Guitar Player Magazine Keyboard Magazine Bass Player Magazine EQ Magazine
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >
Topic Options
#2864898 - 07/06/17 10:01 PM Korg Grandstage (Released)
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
Intro Video


Six APs: Berlin, Heidelberg, Austria, Japan, as well as a newly sampled Italian grand piano, Upright.

"Responding to the requests of numerous professional players, the Grandstage also provides monaural piano sounds for all of these acoustic piano programs. These monaural piano sounds were voiced not from a mono mix of stereo samples but from monaurally recorded sources, and will shine clearly even within a band's mix."

Eight velocity layer clavs (all pickups), Looks like new Pianet sample as well.

Examples:
Main PIano
https://soundcloud.com/korg/dimensions?in=korg/sets/grandstage-sgx-2

German Grand (Mono)
https://soundcloud.com/korg/grand-island?in=korg/sets/grandstage-sgx-2

Italian Grand
https://soundcloud.com/korg/bedtime?in=korg/sets/grandstage-sgx-2

Upright
https://soundcloud.com/korg/blues-feelings?in=korg/sets/grandstage-sgx-2

All APs on Soundcloud
https://soundcloud.com/korg/sets/grandstage-sgx-2

Engines: SGX-2, Ep-1, CX3, Vox, Compact, AL-1, HD-1

Weight: 88: 44 lbs; 73: 37.5 lbs

Stand included

Price unknown

Owner's Manual
Sound Name List

Busch.

Top
KC Island
#2864900 - 07/06/17 10:19 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Ah crap, price unknown. Soon enough I imagine.
Monaural versions of the pianos is great response to feedback.
73k version is interesting choice, gets weight down around a CP4.
It's going to have the RH3 in it. Please say the RH3 is not the end of Korg's efforts to make a great feeling and playing weighted action. Is "Premium" RH3 an adjective or a distinguishing version of the action?
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2864901 - 07/06/17 10:23 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
RH3, no aftertouch.

Busch.

Top
#2864902 - 07/06/17 10:26 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
I just caught that in the promo video... No AT is ok with me on the weighted hammer action. Can't wait for a shop to have one on the floor. As usual, I've had no trouble getting on the Roland RD-2000 or the Yamaha Montage 8. But I can't play a Kurzweil Forte or Nord Piano or Stage 3 anywhere nearby. Hopefully the Grandstage is as easy to find on the floor as the SV-1.

Busch, did I just read that the substantial and funky stand (and pedal) are included?
Ah f*ck. This is not going to be a trickle down Kronos to $1799 stage piano range.
Definitely over $2k.
Now, what if I don't want the stand?
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2864908 - 07/06/17 10:36 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
According to a post on FB the 88 = $2499.

Busch.

Top
#2864917 - 07/06/17 11:29 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 3628
Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
So want to buy this!

If it sounds like the Krome or better, and its action is at least as good as or better than the NordPiano, this could be a painfully expensive year for me.

But since I'm working with my laptop now anyway, the sensible thing is to just get KeyScape and control that from the Nord.

Still, I want this...


Are the specs available yet?

Yup, they're here:

http://www.korg.com/us/products/synthesizers/grandstage/

Dimensions (W x D x H)
88-key: 1131 mm x 359 mm x 140 mm / 51.64" x 14.13" x 5.51" (excluding music stand)
73-key: 1099 mm x 359 mm x 140 mm / 43.27" x 14.13" x 5.51" (excluding music stand)

Weight
88-key: 20.0 kg / 44.09 lbs (excluding music stand)
73-key: 17.0 kg / 37.48 lbs (excluding music stand)


I think the width of the 88 is 1311 mm, not 1131.


Edited by zephonic (07/06/17 11:58 PM)
_________________________
connect


Top
#2864920 - 07/06/17 11:41 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: zephonic]
Theo Verelst Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 3636
From the YT I feel justified in feeling fine never to own this instrument.

T

Top
#2864925 - 07/06/17 11:58 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: zephonic]
Ashville.Guru Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 1843
Loc: India
Kraft Music has the GrandStage on pre-order:

88: $2,499.99
73: $2,299.99

Two more videos:





- Guru
_________________________
“This is really what MIDI was originally about — encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith

Top
#2864926 - 07/07/17 12:02 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Theo Verelst]
ApprenticeGary Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 08/08/13
Posts: 45
Loc: Beijing
I played a kronos 2 88 and felt the action was very good. Far superior than sv1-88 which I owned. Very interested in the grandstage and curious if it has a fan inside like the kronos. Few seems to care about the fan noise, but it's really a dealbreaker for me.
_________________________
I love Michel Petrucciani.

Top
#2864927 - 07/07/17 12:04 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ApprenticeGary]
FunkKeyStuff Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 1870
First mod most players will make: put some tape over that obnoxious glowing logo! Sheesh, what were they thinking?

Still, my interest is piqued. For years I was hoping for an SV-2, and this certainly seems to be it.

Edit: Just saw the in video that you can turn off the glowing logo. Whew!
_________________________
825000345

Top
#2864929 - 07/07/17 12:46 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: FunkKeyStuff]
FunkKeyStuff Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 1870
Next question: instead of splitting the board, can you MIDI in an external keyboard and play a second sound from it, i.e. Wurli locally and Clav from the external board? If so, and if it's as good as it seems like it may be, there's a good chance one of these and the forthcoming Legend Solo could keep me happy for a long time.
_________________________
825000345

Top
#2864930 - 07/07/17 12:59 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: FunkKeyStuff]
marczellm Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 778
Loc: Budapest, Hungary
I was hoping for at least 3 zones and (at least limited) sound editing, like in the Roland RD series or Nord Stage. I'd want to customize drawbar settings for example.
_________________________
Life is subtractive.
Current: Jazz, funk, rock, pop, Christian worship, BebHop
Wishlist: 80s-ish (synth)pop, symphonic pop, prog rock, fusion, musical theatre
Gear: NS2 + JUNO-G


Top
#2864935 - 07/07/17 01:29 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: marczellm]
Dockeys Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 131
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
Doesn't appear to have changed much from the prototype model earlier this year. Not a huge fan of the brushed finished but I like the logo. Overall I think it looks really nice. It seems to be leaning more towards a beefier SV1 than the Kronos. Granted elements of the Kronos have been borrowed. That stand looks pretty solid, though the extendable arms on either side look weird pointing up when you're in the seated position and playing. Still it looks like it's built to be expanded if you wanted to have another keys or two own top or a laptop? I wonder can you programme any of the presets outside of just adding effects like reverb/chorus etc?

I'm in the market for something new soon. I may be swayed by the 73 note especially for the weight factor. Then again I cold get the full 88 note CP4 for similar weight. Will hopefully get to demo these next to each other soon. Thanks for the update.
_________________________
Yamaha Motif XF8, Yamaha MOXF8, Hammond SK2.

Top
#2864936 - 07/07/17 01:30 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Dockeys]
Dockeys Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 131
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
and ElmerJFudd they mention that the stand comes with the keyboard along with a newly designed sustain pedal, not only in the video but it's also mentioned in the specs page. Gotta hold them to that!
_________________________
Yamaha Motif XF8, Yamaha MOXF8, Hammond SK2.

Top
#2864938 - 07/07/17 01:53 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Dockeys]
Nadroj Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 962
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Single split and layer capability...Seems to be targeting the Electro 5. Looking forward to trying one out.
_________________________
Nord E4 SW73 | Roland FA-06

Top
#2864940 - 07/07/17 02:23 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Nadroj]
The Piano Man Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 179
Two zones and only basic splitting/layering. This rules it out for me. Even the £600 Casio PX360 allows four zones

Is this an expensive feature? So few boards seem to have it unless you are paying significant money
_________________________
Home use: Roland FP3
Main Gigs: Nord Stage 2 ex hp76
Weddings: Technics P50
Pub Gigs: Technics P30, Korg X5dr
Rehearsals: Roland EP7e

Top
#2864960 - 07/07/17 05:26 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ApprenticeGary]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 4976
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: ApprenticeGary
I Few seems to care about the fan noise, but it's really a dealbreaker for me.


I like having noise from fans. I say bring on the fan noise. It shows they are interested wink

Top
#2864962 - 07/07/17 05:39 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: GregC]
George88 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 04/13/12
Posts: 703
While I have eagerly been awaiting this arrival, I am disappointed at the lack of available distortion effects.

Top
#2864969 - 07/07/17 05:57 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: George88]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 4976
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: George88
While I have eagerly been awaiting this arrival, I am disappointed at the lack of available distortion effects.


I tend to agree, from a Kronos perspective. I feel the Fx are somewhat limited.

Top
#2864987 - 07/07/17 06:51 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: FunkKeyStuff]
Beethree Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/20/05
Posts: 1562
I like it. I am very happy with my Forte, but if I was in the market this would jump right up there.

The stand is a very cool feature!!!
Got rid of the annoying and too tall curved top from the SV-1
Look forward to trying the mono pianos.
Since it has the CX-3 engine, I am guessing you can edit the drawbar settings. Maybe in real time with a drawbar module? I did not watch every second of all 3 videos.
_________________________
Vintage Vibe 64 EP, Fender Twin, Forte 7, Mojo 61, DotCom Modular, OB-6, Chroma Polaris, Kemper Profiler, Hammond A100/147, Vent ,Farfisa VIP, Wurlitzer 7300, Young Chang 6', Moog Voyager, E7 Clav

Top
#2865008 - 07/07/17 07:38 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Ashville.Guru]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: Ashville.Guru
88: $2,499.99
73: $2,299.99

A bit better than I'd predicted in the original thread on this, where I said "I would not be surprised to see it priced more like, say,$2400- $2500 for the 73 and a couple of hundred more for the 88"

Originally Posted By: Dockeys
Overall I think it looks really nice. It seems to be leaning more towards a beefier SV1 than the Kronos. Granted elements of the Kronos have been borrowed.

Yeah, seems like an SV1 aesthetics/interface applied to basically Kronos-derived sound engines. I could see this being a very desirable package, despite the loss of some things that made the SV1 special in its own way.

Originally Posted By: The Piano Man
Two zones and only basic splitting/layering. This rules it out for me. Even the £600 Casio PX360 allows four zones

Is this an expensive feature? So few boards seem to have it unless you are paying significant money

It's not just about cost, it's about interface/ergonomics and target audience. Some boards are about being able to do zillions of things, others do fewer things but aim to do those things with greater simplicity. Like the difference between a Kronos and a Nord Stage. So, keeping in mind that Korg already makes a keyboard that has almost all the same sonic capabilities as the Grandstage but is also much more flexible (Kronos), the idea here would seem to be to create a board that does the key bread-and-butter stuff in a simpler, more direct approach. They still have the Kronos for people who need more flexibility. At least it's a big step up from the SV1 in terms of split/layer. And you know, as much as everyone was looking forward to getting splits and layers on the Nord Electro, you also see people say they miss some of the old simplicity!

Originally Posted By: Beethree
Since it has the CX-3 engine, I am guessing you can edit the drawbar settings. Maybe in real time with a drawbar module? I did not watch every second of all 3 videos.

I haven't seen it all either. Ocean Beach's drawbars supported Kronos, so I would not be surprised if it worked with this. It likely may includes Kronos' ability to directly support USB controllers too, but a complication may remain in that Kronos CX3 drawbars respond to sysex rather than MIDI CC.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2865011 - 07/07/17 07:45 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5791
Loc: Rochester, NY
Nice worth checking out.
_________________________
"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com


Top
#2865035 - 07/07/17 08:34 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Outkaster]
Rusty Mike Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/05/10
Posts: 742
Loc: Central NJ
I certainly see this as an upgrade to the SV-1. Certainly more functionality/capability/content but still retains the simplicity. The variety of AP's is nice as well.

Not a fan of the stand. I play sitting down and the extended vertical chrome risers look kind of silly to me. Leave the stand out of the box and take $200 off the price.

Doesn't matter anyway. I'm not buying one. But it's a nice upgrade for the Korg fans.
_________________________
Mike from Central NJ
Tools: Ten fingers, two feet, middle-age brain, questionable judgement and taste
Toys: More gear than I could afford when I had talent and did this for a living

Top
#2865037 - 07/07/17 08:36 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Rusty Mike]
stoken6 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 1520
Looks very interesting!! I'm not really in the market, but good on Korg for bringing competition to Nord and the like.

Cheers Mike
_________________________
AX48.PM351.FC7.VFP2
One or two keyboards.

Top
#2865047 - 07/07/17 08:50 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Rusty Mike]
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 4402
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Rusty Mike


Not a fan of the stand. I play sitting down and the extended vertical chrome risers look kind of silly to me. Leave the stand out of the box and take $200 off the price.


I totally concur. That stand does not look very gig friendly in terms of setup.

As for the rest, very cool board.
_________________________
David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Arturia Keylab 61 | Roland Fantom X6 | Mainstage |


Top
#2865051 - 07/07/17 09:08 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: EscapeRocks]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
Owner's Manual, Sound List and MIDI Guide available here: http://www.korg.com/us/support/download/product/0/751/

Editing of program looks to be very basic with a max of four parameters. The 64 Favorites can be saved/loaded from USB Flash.

Busch.


Edited by burningbusch (07/07/17 10:40 AM)
Edit Reason: corrections

Top
#2865056 - 07/07/17 09:23 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
_Maximus_ Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/06/09
Posts: 364
Loc: Guatemala
I like it, the more crowded the stage piano scene gets the better for us, defently a different interpretation of a stage piano than the other competitors, the package including the stand and pedal is a nice touching hope they sell an extra tier for a top board, the glowing logo defently is a sign of the times, you can probably turn it off via software, all and it seems like a well sorted package. Is the ridged texture brushed metal or wood veneer, I dig it

Top
#2865147 - 07/07/17 12:08 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: _Maximus_]
ProfD Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 9235
Loc: Wash DC Area
D8mn. I hope the Grandstage does not have the FTEC (finger-to-ear connection) of the SV-1. grin

If the Grandstage has the best of the SV-1 and Kronos, I might feel a fire sale brewing. laugh cool
_________________________
PD

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

Top
#2865156 - 07/07/17 12:28 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ProfD]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
It's priced hot for a two split/layer stage piano, but it's priced right for a Kronos LE. I'm studying the manual now to see how editable and feature-full the Grandstage really is.

I'm confounded by this decision to bundle the stand. Unless they think if they get this stand into people's hands they'll want to fill it with more Korg synths... maybe this orange VOX organ is coming which is usually also hanging on this stand at the trade shows?
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2865169 - 07/07/17 12:51 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
bob_sd Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/24/14
Posts: 41
Loc: CA
Still looks like a prototype to me - not very pretty. Yeah, that part is important to me - I'm still in love with the curves on the SV1! They really took a step backward re effects. No independent distortion? No independent chorus?

But there is plenty to like- looking through the patch list available online, korg has thoughtfully incorporated access to certain modulators (like lfos) and effects (like chorus) that are not accessible from the front panel - and attached them to control surfaces on a per patch basis. (Control surfaces including pitch/mod wheels, pedals, two switches) doesnt look like any of these are assignable but rather hard wired (maybe an editor in the future?) This is definitely a "player's" instrument/rompler.

I also noticed that patches that incorporate delay utilize the mod wheel to set the depth, whereas the pot on front panel determines speed. Lots of thought put into this and it will satisfy a bunch of users. Others have compared it to the electro series, however I personally think this is "almost" in a separate category given it has pitch/mod wheels. Awesome!

Re drawbars- we can hold out hope that a third party solution would provide this, but I don't see it at least with the current firmware.

Just wish it looked better. Too many corners, not enough curves. And the stand? I sure hope the keyboard will be available without it. The stand looks like a tricked out medical walker.

Top
#2865184 - 07/07/17 01:45 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: bob_sd]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Sweetwater has a run through as well with Erskine Hawkins.

_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2865188 - 07/07/17 01:49 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: bob_sd]
CEB Offline
10k Club

Registered: 06/03/09
Posts: 12531
This one doesn't appeal to me at all.... I have no idea why. There is no little voice saying 'Buy me'. I hear that voice when I see the RD-2000 and I really like the MP-7. I like the CP-4 better than this. Maybe because it seems like a weak ass Kronos and not a stage piano with the synth and organ engines onboard. I like the SV-1 a lot.


Edited by CEB (07/07/17 01:49 PM)
_________________________
"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

Top
#2865190 - 07/07/17 01:50 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: CEB]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Originally Posted By: CEB
This one doesn't appeal to me at all.... I have no idea why. There is no little voice saying Buy me. I hear that voice when I see the RD-2000 and I really like the MP-7. I like the CP-4 better than this. Maybe because it seems like a weak ass Kronos and not a stage piano. I like the SV-1 a lot.


I'm getting that vibe too. I know it's early and I haven't sat at it, but listening to all demos so far... the acoustic piano sounds are meh for a piano centric instrument like this. The electrics sound better, just like the SV-1. The synths sound good. But maybe that's KORG.

These AP samples sound really short with a fast unrealistic decay.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2865191 - 07/07/17 01:51 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
drawback Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 3254
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted By: CEB
This one doesn't appeal to me at all.... I have no idea why. There is no little voice saying Buy me. I hear that voice when I see the RD-2000 and I really like the MP-7. I like the CP-4 better than this. Maybe because it seems like a weak ass Kronos and not a stage piano. I like the SV-1 a lot.


I'm getting that vibe too. I know it's early and I haven't sat at it, but listening to all demos so far... the acoustic piano sounds are meh for a piano centric instrument like this. The electrics sound better, just like the SV-1. The synths sound good. But maybe that's KORG.

These samples sound really short with a fast unrealistic decay.

I've been reading through this thread, caught all the demos, checked out the prices & the manuals (briefly) and am not getting what makes this stage piano any more interesting than Yamaha's MX88 at half the price?

Agree with the AP assessment – still sounding "Korgy" to me too.


Edited by drawback (07/07/17 02:01 PM)
_________________________
"I think we had it on take four, Burt." ~ Sir George Martin

Kawai KG2 | Studiologic SL88 | Mojo61 | Pianoteq 6 | Ravenscroft 275 | Korg Module

Top
#2865192 - 07/07/17 02:03 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Sweetwater has a run through as well with Erskine Hawkins.



Unfortunately the demo is mono. Maybe they'll repost it.

Busch.

Top
#2865193 - 07/07/17 02:06 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: drawback]
Synthoid Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 9674
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Originally Posted By: drawback
what makes this stage piano any more interesting than Yamaha's MX88 at half the price?


The MX88 is a totally different animal. It's an entry-level "Motif-type" keyboard with different features and sounds, and I would assume a lesser build quality than the Grandstage.
_________________________
To stop the flow of music would be like the stopping of time itself, incredible and inconceivable.
-- Aaron Copland

Top
#2865194 - 07/07/17 02:07 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
This is what they say the SGX-2 inside is delivering,

"These SGX-2 sound engines contain high-capacity
* unlooped stereo samples for every key
* 12 levels of velocity switching to perfectly convey the detailed and powerful expressiveness of an acoustic piano, extending to
* damper resonance that reproduces the spaciousness felt when the pedal is pressed, and even
* mechanical noise

I'll shut up on the AP sounds until I get on one, but... I'm hoping to hear something I'm not right now.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2865199 - 07/07/17 02:14 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd


These AP samples sound really short with a fast unrealistic decay.


Not hearing that with the new pianos myself.

https://soundcloud.com/korg/dimensions?in=korg/sets/grandstage-sgx-2

Busch.

Top
#2865202 - 07/07/17 02:24 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: drawback]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: drawback
not getting what makes this stage piano any more interesting than Yamaha's MX88 at half the price?

MX88 uses a sample playback engine with the equivalent of 166 mb of wave data.

Grandstage has the equivalent of 32 gb of wave data for its sample playback (largely for pianos), plus additional engines that use modeling rather than sample playback... i.e. it includes a clonewheel engine and a VA synth engine, etc. Also, I think most would consider RH3 to be a step-up in action from GHS. If it's like the Kronos, the seamless sound transition will work between any sounds or combinations of sounds, whereas MX only supports that between (user definable) sets of 16 sounds. Ergonomically, it also gives you a bit more of a "hands on " interface. More professional back panel... built-in power supply and XLR outs.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2865208 - 07/07/17 02:53 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
drawback Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 3254
Loc: Canada
Thanks guys. Different animal indeed.
_________________________
"I think we had it on take four, Burt." ~ Sir George Martin

Kawai KG2 | Studiologic SL88 | Mojo61 | Pianoteq 6 | Ravenscroft 275 | Korg Module

Top
#2865212 - 07/07/17 03:04 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: CEB]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: CEB
This one doesn't appeal to me at all.... I have no idea why. There is no little voice saying 'Buy me'. I hear that voice when I see the RD-2000 and I really like the MP-7. I like the CP-4 better than this. Maybe because it seems like a weak ass Kronos and not a stage piano with the synth and organ engines onboard. I like the SV-1 a lot.


Coming from the Kronos at only ~$1000 more, it's hard for me too excited either. I've owned many slab pianos and inevitably found them too restrictive due to their lack of sounds, programming, customization. Save a few sounds I can connect with, in the end I'm frustrated. Nice actions and all.

With the GS, from what I can see there are four Vox and two Compact presets which allow a single editable parameter. Seems like a huge waste of potential. Hope the new organs and APs make to the Kronos in some fashion.

Busch.

Top
#2865219 - 07/07/17 03:27 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
Coming from the Kronos at only ~$1000 more, it's hard for me too excited either.

I don't think it will have tons of appeal to lots of Kronos fans. But to get a lot of the "bread and butter" parts of the Kronos, not just for $1100-$1200 less, but with a friendlier interface*, more compact chassis and 9 lbs less travel weight gives you something with an appeal to a different player, I think.

(* I know, Set List mode is friendly. But the rest of the board's operation, not so much.)
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2865221 - 07/07/17 03:32 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
Sam Mullins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 08/21/07
Posts: 1310
Loc: Iowa City, Iowa
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
Coming from the Kronos at only ~$1000 more, it's hard for me too excited either.

I don't think it will have tons of appeal to lots of Kronos fans. But to get a lot of the "bread and butter" parts of the Kronos, not just for $1100-$1200 less, but with a friendlier interface*, more compact chassis and 9 lbs less travel weight gives you something with an appeal to a different player, I think.

(* I know, Set List mode is friendly. But the rest of the board's operation, not so much.)


Agree. As a Kronos owner, this isn't on my radar at all. But if I had something different as my top tier, then it would be appealing as a bottom tier keyboard. And there is enough sound variety to appeal to folks who only want to carry one keyboard.
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88, Korg Kronos 2 61, DSI Prophet 08 Module, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright
www.stickmanor.com
There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman

Top
#2865226 - 07/07/17 03:56 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Sam Mullins]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
I think the VOX Continental is coming, it has a very similar UI and aesthetic to the Grandstage and that's where the fully editable organ models will be.

_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2865231 - 07/07/17 04:13 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I think the VOX Continental is coming

I like that method of adjusting drawbars... the immediacy of hard controls (compared to Nord's buttons), but also the ability for them to instantly reflect recalled settings (or a different manual). That or something like Dexibel's motorized faders is really useful, I think.

One more thing about the GS vs Kronos is that I think the GS has a lot more immediate appeal on the showroom floor... you can probably walk over to it and right away feel like you basically know how to use it, unlike Kronos.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2865239 - 07/07/17 04:52 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
I imagine perfecting that drawbar tech might be what's holding up the VOX, right? I can't wait to see what it feels like. It's got to be quicker and a more familiar motion than the Nord +/- buttons.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2865277 - 07/07/17 07:16 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Ashville.Guru Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 1843
Loc: India
My prediction: Eventually, as more and more of our brethren start actually playing this thing on stage, the Dynamics knob is going to be recognized as the greatest innovation in DPs in recent years. Way ahead of stuff like escapement, pedal noise, triple sensors, even.

- Guru
_________________________
“This is really what MIDI was originally about — encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith

Top
#2865288 - 07/07/17 09:36 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Ashville.Guru]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2865289 - 07/07/17 09:37 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Ashville.Guru]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Originally Posted By: Ashville.Guru
My prediction: Eventually, as more and more of our brethren start actually playing this thing on stage, the Dynamics knob is going to be recognized as the greatest innovation in DPs in recent years. Way ahead of stuff like escapement, pedal noise, triple sensors, even.

- Guru


You might be right. Simple single knob control of velocity curve could very well make it easy to dial in the way you want the action to interact with the current sound - and hopefully save-able with the preset.

emusician copy suggests the GS A-frame stand might be "limited" as in for early adopters or until supply runs out?

"ships this summer with an eye-catching limited A-frame keyboard stand, a DS1H damper pedal, and a music stand in 88- and 73-note configurations for $2,499 and $2,299 respectively. It will debut at Summer NAMM ’17 at the Korg USA booth #953."
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2865295 - 07/07/17 10:35 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Ashville.Guru Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 1843
Loc: India
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Simple single knob control of velocity curve could very well make it easy to dial in the way you want the action to interact with the current sound

As I understand it, the Dynamics knob in the GS has nothing to do with velocity curve. Velocity curve is part of the system settings (p. 16 of the manual).

Dynamics affects only the volume difference between the softest and loudest notes. Velocity curves affect both volume and timbre.

Here's why the distinction matters: when your band mix is loud, the softest notes will get drowned out, forcing you to bang on the keys. You can 'fix' the problem with velocity curve, but at the cost of velocity sensitivity. Now you don't have to bang on the keys, but there's no difference between playing soft and playing loud, it sounds the same - both volume and timbre.

And what fun is an AP that isn't velocity sensitive?

Enter the dynamic knob. When you lower dynamics, the timbre is unaffected. Which means the softest notes are still heard above the band mix - but with a mellow timbre. And the timbre brightens up as you dig in, even if the volume doesn't change that much.

Bottomline, you get to play expressively on AP sounds even in a loud band mix.

Velocity curve adjustment has been there for ages now. Dynamics adjustment is a new thing - for hardware boards. It's buried as a parameter in the Kronos (and Casio PX-5S also, I believe). But this begs to be tweaked realtime, and the GrandStage is the first board to provide a handy knob for it.

- Guru
_________________________
“This is really what MIDI was originally about — encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith

Top
#2865307 - 07/08/17 02:55 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Ashville.Guru]
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 3628
Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
As you describe it, it sounds basically like compression...
_________________________
connect


Top
#2865319 - 07/08/17 04:22 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: zephonic]
Rusty Mike Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/05/10
Posts: 742
Loc: Central NJ
Originally Posted By: zephonic
As you describe it, it sounds basically like compression...


Yup
_________________________
Mike from Central NJ
Tools: Ten fingers, two feet, middle-age brain, questionable judgement and taste
Toys: More gear than I could afford when I had talent and did this for a living

Top
#2865321 - 07/08/17 04:42 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: Ashville.Guru
As I understand it, the Dynamics knob in the GS has nothing to do with velocity curve. Velocity curve is part of the system settings (p. 16 of the manual). Dynamics affects only the volume difference between the softest and loudest notes. Velocity curves affect both volume and timbre.

I don't think so. From the manual (p. 11), I see it differently. i.e. implying the knob affects tone as well as volume, it says "adjusts how the volume and tone will be changed in response to how hard the keys are played (velocity)" though I suppose one could interpret a tone NOT changing as being an adjustment to how tone will be changed. But then it also says "The dynamics will have no effect on programs that do not change in volume or tone with velocity, such as organ sounds or some synth sounds." If it weren't altering tone, it wouldn't matter whether or not it was being applied to a sound where the tone changed with velocity. (As for it having anything to do with the velocity curve, it also says "the effect will be applied according to the velocity curve that is set" though I think that's basically just saying that it doesn't over-ride that setting, but works in conjunction with it.)

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Simple single knob control of velocity curve could very well make it easy to dial in the way you want the action to interact with the current sound - and hopefully save-able with the preset.

Apparently not savable. From the same page, "Dynamics settings cannot be saved to the favorites. Dynamics will always be off when turning on the Grandstage. Turning DYNAMICS on will cause the effect to be applied, according to the position of the knob." It also applies equally to the two sounds of a split/layer.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
emusician copy suggests the GS A-frame stand might be "limited" as in for early adopters or until supply runs out?

"ships this summer with an eye-catching limited A-frame keyboard stand,

Nah... I think they're just saying that shipments start this summer, not that the stand only comes with it this summer, if that's what you meant. All indications are that the stand will come standard, and is not intended as a launch promotion. (Of course, that doesn't mean they might not choose to offer it without the stand at some point...)
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2865325 - 07/08/17 05:02 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: zephonic]
Ashville.Guru Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 1843
Loc: India
Originally Posted By: zephonic
As you describe it, it sounds basically like compression...

Exactly...! Except that compression isn't designed for real-time tweaking. Compression is applied post-facto, and you have five parameters that have to be adjusted very carefully to avoid artefacts - for each individual sample. Too messy and complicated for stage use.

Dynamics applies to the sound engine itself. Single parameter, perfectly clean, no artefacts. Ideal for on-stage tweaking.

- Guru
_________________________
“This is really what MIDI was originally about — encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith

Top
#2865326 - 07/08/17 05:18 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
Ashville.Guru Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 1843
Loc: India
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I don't think so. From the manual (p. 11), I see it differently. i.e. implying the knob affects tone as well as volume, it says "adjusts how the volume and tone will be changed in response to how hard the keys are played (velocity)"

Yes, I saw that. I'm pretty sure the manual is worded poorly, because I've actually tested it out on a Kronos. There's a parameter (I think it's called Velocity Bias or Intensity). Setting this to minimum is very instructive - hitting the keys harder changes only the timbre, but not the volume...! Pretty sure this is what the GrandStage knob controls.

And this is exactly how the Dynamic Range parameter in Pianoteq works. I've been using this live, mapped to a hardware knob for years now. The difference it makes, is something to be experienced.

- Guru
_________________________
“This is really what MIDI was originally about — encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith

Top
#2865331 - 07/08/17 05:52 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Ashville.Guru]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: Ashville.Guru
Originally Posted By: zephonic
As you describe it, it sounds basically like compression...

Exactly...! Except that compression isn't designed for real-time tweaking. Compression is applied post-facto, and you have five parameters that have to be adjusted very carefully

Well, there have been some single-knob implementations of compression (with varying levels of success).

Originally Posted By: Ashville.Guru
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I don't think so. From the manual (p. 11), I see it differently. i.e. implying the knob affects tone as well as volume, it says "adjusts how the volume and tone will be changed in response to how hard the keys are played (velocity)"

Yes, I saw that. I'm pretty sure the manual is worded poorly, because I've actually tested it out on a Kronos. There's a parameter (I think it's called Velocity Bias or Intensity). Setting this to minimum is very instructive - hitting the keys harder changes only the timbre, but not the volume...! Pretty sure this is what the GrandStage knob controls.

And this is exactly how the Dynamic Range parameter in Pianoteq works. I've been using this live, mapped to a hardware knob for years now. The difference it makes, is something to be experienced.

Sounds cool. I'll need to experiment with that in the Kronos some time.

I suppose it's also possible that the knob on the Grandstage is some hybrid of the two ideas... that it does affect both volume and timbre, but not equally.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2865342 - 07/08/17 06:43 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
Ashville.Guru Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 1843
Loc: India
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
I suppose it's also possible that the knob on the Grandstage is some hybrid of the two ideas... that it does affect both volume and timbre, but not equally.

Possible of course, but I sure hope not - that would be incredibly silly of Korg. Affecting timbre means killing expression - for no advantage whatsoever.

Besides, they didn't need to reinvent the wheel. They already have a parameter in the SGX engine, all they needed to do was map it to a knob to get it right.

I'd also recommend playing around with a Pianoteq demo - it's a small download. There's a built-in compressor, buried in the effects section. And yet, there's a dedicated Dynamics parameter prominently next to the volume control. Korg's engineers seem to have converged on the same idea.

- Guru
_________________________
“This is really what MIDI was originally about — encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith

Top
#2865351 - 07/08/17 07:18 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Ashville.Guru]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Heh, I'm still not clear on wether this is a one knob compressor (like on Yamaha live mixer's channel strips) or a single knob velocity curve adjuster. Does the GS also have a way to go in and select velocity (hard, normal, soft) like most every other stage piano? If not, is this intended to replace that? Does the GS offer compression in the fx section? Can it be edited or is it on or off?

I need to look at the manual deeper.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2865357 - 07/08/17 08:03 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
With the SGX on the Kronos you have two independent parameters related to velocity response:

VELOCITY BIAS (timbre): negative values compress the range giving you a darker tone while positive values expand the range, i.e. brighter.

VELOCITY INTENSITY (volume): negative values compress the dynamic range while positive values expand it. For example, a value of -100 will cause all notes to have the same volume regardless of how hard the keys are depressed.

In addition, the instrument has an overall velocity response parameter found in GLOBAL. The GS seems to be identical in this regard.

The DYNAMICS knob on the GS does not appear to be a standard compressor as the documentation says it relates to the velocity response curves set in GLOBAL. Also, it says it does not affect organ/synth tones which are not velocity sensitive. A compressor would of course affect all tones.

It sounds to me like some variation of the two parameters found in the SGX engine on the Kronos.

Busch.

Top
#2865362 - 07/08/17 08:14 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Ashville.Guru]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: Ashville.Guru

Possible of course, but I sure hope not - that would be incredibly silly of Korg. Affecting timbre means killing expression - for no advantage whatsoever.



VELOCITY BIAS does affect timbre but it does not kill expression. In fact it might increase expression for some players. If you have a particularly heavy touch or your trying to play expressive piano parts on a light action keyboard, it is very easy to bang into the upper, bright sample layers (MIDI notes 100+). In this sense your range is limited. By setting a negative value, you are simply starting with a bit of a handicap, so while you can still hit those highest velocities/timbres it takes more effort and might be more expressive, again for certain players/situations.

I always set my SGX pianos to a negative value BIAS (timbre) while setting the INTENSITY (volume) to a positive value. This suits my playing style.

Busch.

Top
#2865367 - 07/08/17 08:40 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Does the GS also have a way to go in and select velocity (hard, normal, soft) like most every other stage piano?

Yes, there are 9 selectable velocity curves.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Does the GS offer compression in the fx section?

Yes and no. Except for reverb/delay, it looks like there are no user-selectable effects on a given patch. Rather, effects have been pre-assigned to certain patches. So in this case, you can call up an Italian or German grand with compression, but there's no way to put compression on the Japanese, Austrian, or Berlin models, because patches with compression on those piano sounds don't exist. You can select a Wurli with compression, but not a Rhodes. You can have compression on your clav AD sound, but not AC, BC, or BD. Same idea with phaser, chorus, etc.... you get them by calling up sounds that have those effects pre-assigned, but as far as I can tell, you can not freely assign those effects to whatever sound you want.

And this one was a bit of a shocker... despite the CX3 engine, there appears to be no way to adjust the drawbar settings. No menu option, no CC control, and not even any sysex control. (So much for the Ocean Beach drawbars working.) In fact, there's no sysex for anything. So you're not going to see any deep editors, either. As the manual says, "the Grandstage does not support either transmitting or receiving system exclusive messages." (Well, except for five "universal" system exclusive messages... which always sounded like an oxymoron to me...) One possible saving grace here is that each program has 4 pre-selected editable parameters, customized to that particular program. It's possible that some of the organ patches have drawbar levels assigned to those parameters.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2865370 - 07/08/17 08:55 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Definitely choices made here to not offer a Kronos at $2299.99 and also to have cross over, but not too much with the expected VOX which will obviously be much more capable in the CX3 area but likely watered down in the SGX area.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2865374 - 07/08/17 09:17 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: drawback]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: drawback
Thanks guys. Different animal indeed.

One thing the MX88 has over the GS is that the sounds are full editable (via computer). GS is more a preset jockey's machine... though in reality, 99% of the MX owners probably use it the same way. ;-)
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2865448 - 07/08/17 01:51 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
Ashville.Guru Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 1843
Loc: India
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
VELOCITY BIAS does affect timbre but it does not kill expression.

In fact it might increase expression for some players. If you have a particularly heavy touch or your trying to play expressive piano parts on a light action keyboard, it is very easy to bang into the upper, bright sample layers (MIDI notes 100+). In this sense your range is limited. By setting a negative value, you are simply starting with a bit of a handicap, so while you can still hit those highest velocities/timbres it takes more effort and might be more expressive, again for certain players/situations.


We seem to be talking about different applications and contexts. You're referring to adapting to a keyboard with a lighter touch. I'm talking about the band mix drowning out the softer notes. Different problems, different remedial measures.

From the descriptions and videos, it looks like the Dynamics knob applies to the second scenario:

"Turning the dynamics knob toward the left provides a softer sound with a wider dynamic range in response to your keystrokes. This allows more sensitive expression since the sound responds directly to changes in your playing strength; ideal for piano solos or when playing accompaniment. Conversely, turning the dynamics knob toward the right provides louder sound relative to your playing strength, creating flatter dynamics. This is ideal when you want to play with a consistent touch so that your sound will stand out in the band or ensemble."

I'd say the Dynamics knob simply controls the Intensity parameter, not Bias. Ergo, timbre should be unaffected.

- Guru

P.S. The Bias parameter is perhaps another underrated innovation in the Kronos. I'm not aware of any equivalent in software. Still, it solves a very different problem from the Dynamics knob.
_________________________
“This is really what MIDI was originally about — encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith

Top
#2865508 - 07/08/17 06:16 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Ashville.Guru]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Knob to left:

Softer sound = overall decrease of piano volume sent to main outs. Softs, mediums, and louds are all decreased the same %, the equivalent of turning your master volume down.
Wider dynamic range = what does this imply? higher resolution in the velocity curve? Or that the resulting dB can go down to lower than when you have the knob at center?

Knob to Right:

"louder sound relative to your playing strength"
Does this mean lower values in the velocity curve have been limited at the bottom? Like it's not possible to play 0-50... Anything below 50 is a 51 and its there to 127 depending on the shape of curve?

The description isn't great. Trying to keep what it does a secret sauce?
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2865532 - 07/08/17 08:53 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
niacin Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 1280
Loc: down under
I was looking forward to this, but then a new gig that required a few samples and loops pushed me towards a Kronos 73. I also have an SV-1. With that in mind:

The SV-1 has better EPs, the best available in hardware. They're an absolute joy to play. And you have the equivalent of a row of quality fx pedals with knobs for everything. The Kronos EPs are good, but they don't quite put that smile on my face. The Grandstage has the Kronos EP engine.

I have tweaked and now really like the new Kronos acoustic piano sample, way better than those in the SV-1, and I've found that I enjoy the RH3 action on the Kronos significantly more than that on the SV-1. I don't just mean the better velocity curves matching the acoustic piano samples, I mean the physicality of it. Presumably due to the aftertouch on the Kronos providing a slightly softer landing. The Grandstage has no aftertouch and will play like the SV-1, perhaps with better velocity mapping to the new acoustic piano samples.

The lack of tweaking for the CX-3 makes the organ as useful (or useless) as those on the SV-1.

The velocity/compression knob you guys are discussing appears to be something like that on Roland's VR-09, which seems to be a sort of combination compression/eq knob designed to make managing the sound in different acoustic environments more doable on the fly. I think it's great that companies like Korg and Roland are thinking about these sorts of gig-friendly extras.

The stand, on the other hand, is way oversized. 73/76 note boards are bought for small cars and smaller stage footprints. Not a fan. The SV-1 stand is much better.

With the caveat that I haven't played one, but am familiar with the SV-1 and the Kronos, from which come all the elements of the Grandstage (with the exception of the new combo organ engines), while I will look to try one in the store when it starts shipping, I'm glad I went for the Kronos 73.
_________________________
Hammond SK2, HX3 (for blues gigs), Korg Kronos 73, Line6 L3T, Yamaha DBR-10

Top
#2865656 - 07/09/17 03:00 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: niacin]
analogman1 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/03/01
Posts: 767
Loc: UNITED STATES
Still loving my SV1!
I honestly can't see the reason to keep upgrading. (Also can't afford it!)
If I invest in anything else, it will probably be either a real piano or console organ.
_________________________
Tom

Top
#2865688 - 07/09/17 05:20 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: analogman1]
Randelph Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/30/09
Posts: 386
Loc: San Francisco, CA
60 gigs of memory total? Pretty sweet. I suppose that's where Korg will make more money, as part of their expansion packs.

Seems incredibly limited that you can only do split and layer with one part of that being from the ensemble sounds.

Overly limited in terms of editing capability, surely they must have a iPad or computer editor in the works. 60 gigs of memory and such a small screen, it'd be ludicrous otherwise. Guess I'm used to my Nord Stage- of course it's practically half the price, but still, I guess I'm unreasonably expecting more hands on controls. With an editor that'd make all the difference with this board, you'd prepare in advance and load up that favorites bank.

Reminds me a bit of the Korg SP 280, the user interface is overly simplified. For all of its limitations, I found it a fun board to play. But yeah, it does seem like the SV-1 in its simplicity.

A shame they couldn't come in under 35-40 pounds, but I'm sure they tried, manufacturers have got to know by now how many buying decisions this influences.

Can't say this gives me GAS. As the NS3 becomes available, you could probably get a used NS2 88, possibly even the EX, for around the same price, which weighs a little less, is 6 part multi-timbral, and has lots of real time controllers. And, I already know I like the sounds on the Stage.

I suppose it was only a matter of time that we'd get brightly illuminated signage on boards meant for the stage. I suppose for many of us it seems like a point of ridicule, but they did make it something you could turn off, dim or display in different colors, and hey, whatever it takes to get the keyboardist noticed!

Randy
_________________________
Nord Stage 88 Classic / Casio MZ-X500 / Yamaha melodica, soprano and alto recorders / Various congas and djembes
Roland Street Cube EX / QSC K10, K8.2 / SS V.3
Blue Encore 300, Rode M3



Top
#2865693 - 07/09/17 05:40 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Randelph]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Yamaha had the white back light though the chrome Yamaha symbol on the CP1. Very understated.
Korg with the multi colors through the KORG logo... well, that surely says something about aesthetic differences between these companies.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2865695 - 07/09/17 05:50 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Mitch Towne Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 947
I couldnt disagree more with the idea that the SV-1 has better EPs than the Kronos. The SV-1 Rhodes sample sounds like it changes half way up the keyboard. I could never connect with it. The Kronos has the best workstation Rhodes in the business, I think. The "Herbie's Butterfly" patch alone blows away anything the SV1 can do.

I don't see, however, where the GS has the editing ability that the Kronos does. Am I missing something?

Top
#2865697 - 07/09/17 06:05 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Mitch Towne]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
No I don't think you're missing anything. The GS has SV-1 simplicity with the Kronos engines - you get the sounds with very limited editing beyond EQ and some FX parameters. That's why it's a grand less. Giggers no muss no fuss setup and play. If one needs the rest, you get the Kronos.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2865698 - 07/09/17 06:08 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Randelph]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: Randelph
60 gigs of memory total? Pretty sweet.
specs say 32. Still, nothing to sneeze at.

http://www.korg.com/us/products/synthesizers/grandstage/specifications.php

Originally Posted By: Randelph
Overly limited in terms of editing capability, surely they must have a iPad or computer editor in the works.

I think they intend this to be for the preset jockeys, and they would suggest the Kronos for those who want to dig in. (Also, they specifically say it has no system exclusive implementation, I don't know that that makes it impossible to create an editor, but it at least means it's impossible for anyone other than Korg.)

Originally Posted By: Randelph
gigs of memory and such a small screen, it'd be ludicrous otherwise.

Not really. It has the 500 sounds it has (and 64 favorite locations). The fact that some of the sounds use gobs of wave sample data (i.e. that it has multi-gigabyte pianos) doesn't make an editor more or less essential, there's not a correlation between size of the samples and need for an editor.

Originally Posted By: Randelph
I guess I'm unreasonably expecting more hands on controls. With an editor that'd make all the difference with this board, you'd prepare in advance and load up that favorites bank.

Yeah, that's the Kronos approach. More uninviting then the GS in terms of hands-on control, but you prep in advance and load up your Set List slots.

Originally Posted By: Randelph
But yeah, it does seem like the SV-1 in its simplicity.

I think that's the point of it. Though the SV1 does have an editor! Albeit not a particularly extensive one. But I think they are going for a board with the SV1's successful simplicity, addressing the SV1's most notable shortcomings. People didn't really complain that the SV1 didn't allow you to sufficiently edit the sounds, again we're talking about something more designed for preset jockeys. What people did complain about was having only 8 Favorite locations, not being able to split/layer, having an awkward shape to carry or stack, having lackluster acoustic piano sounds, no mod/pitch wheels... all addressed with the GS. Smooth sound transition is a nice addition, too. (Unfortunately, there is also some tradeoff, as the effects have been scaled back.)

Originally Posted By: Randelph
A shame they couldn't come in under 35-40 pounds
...
Can't say this gives me GAS.

I'm with you on those. But I think the board will have a lot of appeal to a lot of people.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2865699 - 07/09/17 06:27 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Yamaha had the white back light though the chrome Yamaha symbol on the CP1. Very understated.
Korg with the multi colors through the KORG logo... well, that surely says something about aesthetic differences between these companies.


All the world's a stage.



Busch.

Top
#2865700 - 07/09/17 06:42 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
All the world's a stage.

I read that Jobs had wanted the Apple 180 degrees flipped from that, so it would be facing the "right" way when a user went over to it and opened it up, and it took a lot of persuasion from other design folk to convince him that it was more important that it look right when people saw it from the "outside."
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2865839 - 07/10/17 09:52 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: The Piano Man]
Synthaholic Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1379
Loc: Where the wild things are
Originally Posted By: The Piano Man
Two zones and only basic splitting/layering. This rules it out for me. Even the £600 Casio PX360 allows four zones

Is this an expensive feature? So few boards seem to have it unless you are paying significant money


It's another "what were they thinking?" moment. It can't be expensive - the Alesis Quadrasynth/QS Series lets you Split/Layer all 16 channels.
_________________________
The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin

Top
#2865852 - 07/10/17 10:04 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Synthaholic]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
In Korg's mind they just offered the Oasys/Kronos engines at a grand below a Kronos. It has to cost more than the SV-1 @ $1.5-$1.6k. And they think it's more in league with the RD-2000 and CP4. And in some ways they're right, and in others very wrong. But, that's what they did. Personally I think they should have offered the stand separate and the boards @ $1.9-$2.0k. But, that may be coming yet.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2865858 - 07/10/17 10:19 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Synthoid Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 9674
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Personally I think they should have offered the stand separate and the boards @ $1.9-$2.0k. But, that may be coming yet.


Give it time. There will be a price drop eventually. I am hoping for different color light inserts for the various holidays though. laugh
_________________________
To stop the flow of music would be like the stopping of time itself, incredible and inconceivable.
-- Aaron Copland

Top
#2865919 - 07/10/17 01:03 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Synthaholic]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
It's another "what were they thinking?" moment. It can't be expensive - the Alesis Quadrasynth/QS Series lets you Split/Layer all 16 channels.

It's not always a cost thing. If you're trying to design a board for simple operation with immediate control and minimal menu diving, it may not be sensible to provide 16-zone splits/layers. (And they do have boards that provide that feature for those who need it... not just the more expensive Kronos, but also the less expensive Krome/Kross).

The other thing about "it can't be expensive, because this cheaper board does it" is that you also need to keep in mind the other things the board does that the cheaper board does not do. As I've said before, there are lots of features you can find in thousand dollar boards, but if you put them all into the same board, you don't have a thousand dollar board anymore
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2866386 - 07/12/17 11:54 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: zephonic]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Just preordered a Grandstage after sending back an RD-2000 for action issues, getting a replacement, and replacing that with a Nord Piano 3, which I just got replaced...So, TWO Roland RD-2000s, and now TWO Nord Piano 3s... My Triton Studio treated me well for 16 years...Grandstage here I come!

Cheers!

Ben


Edited by Macsaint777 (07/13/17 07:34 AM)
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2866396 - 07/12/17 12:25 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
So I hear, saint. Sheesh, that's insane. I think you may have broken a record. You sure your UPS guy isn't to blame? wink

What did you think of the NP3 action when you played it? Or were they DOA?

Here's hoping your Grandstage arrived safely! Totally possible it might need a firmware update though, as I'm sure the RD-2000 needs as well.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2866399 - 07/12/17 12:31 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5527
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Ben, I just saw your post and watched your video on the Nord forum. facepalm mad

Man, I feel bad for you having to go all through all of this. What a nightmare !! shocked

Welcome to "Quality Control" circa 2017. wink I played my $900 Yamaha P120 on hundreds of gigs between 2000 to 2008 without a second's problem with the action. Only in the last year did a few keys start sticking and Yamaha sent me a free replacement action.

I'd question if you'll be happy with the Korg pianos and action a year after you buy it but good luck.

Don't know where to tell you to turn ... idk Maybe the MP11 and just play your Nord pianos with that ? And use the CP4 for gigs only ?
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5

Top
#2866404 - 07/12/17 12:55 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5791
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
Judt preordered a Grandstage after sending back an RD-2000 for action issues, getting a replacement, and replacing that with a Nord Piano 3, which I just got replaced...So, TWO Roland RD-2000s, and now TWO Nord Piano 3s... My Triton Studio treated me well for 16 years...Grandstage here I come!

Cheers!

Ben


Cool. I tried a RD-2000 the other day and hated the action.


Edited by Outkaster (07/12/17 12:57 PM)
_________________________
"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com


Top
#2866561 - 07/13/17 06:36 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Outkaster]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I find it hard to believe you would hate the RD-2000 action! It is one of the best out there right now. Far better than the Nord Piano 3, the SV-1, or the CP-4 in my opinion. What did you dislike about it specifically?


Mine had some issues for sure, but these were issues physically that showed up over time, not apparent from the feel of the keys immediately.
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2866567 - 07/13/17 06:52 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
I find it hard to believe you would hate the RD-2000 action!

I was just glad to see it wasn't just me! Admittedly, I only had the opportunity to play it with the sound off, but I didn't like the feel of the action at all.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2866578 - 07/13/17 08:19 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
I've spent good time on the RD-2000 as well and am not raving about the action. It's slightly sluggish and takes a bit to get used to it. The older Kawai ES-100 felt this way to me as well the ES-110 does not - not sure what they changed. Apparently Yamaha addresses this on the folded compact action in the CP4 with a leaf spring under each key. Maybe acoustic actions that play well just have better physics on the return with all that weight from the hammer mechanism coming back to original position? Not every folded compact digital action is designed the same and it's tricky to get them to feel and play well.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2866580 - 07/13/17 08:25 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5791
Loc: Rochester, NY
Find to hard I would hate it? Why? It sucked ass. I didn't like the response and it didn't feel very real.
_________________________
"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com


Top
#2866583 - 07/13/17 08:29 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I've spent good time on the RD-2000 as well and am not raving about the action. It's slightly sluggish and takes a bit to get used to it. The older Kawai ES-100 felt this way to me as well the ES-110 does not - not sure what they changed.

The ES100 did feel a bit sluggish to me, the ES110 feels a bit "rubbery", I'd have to play them next to each other to be sure which I'd prefer, though my memory (which could be playing tricks) makes me think that the ES100 seemed to "connect" a bit better to its internal sound. (The ES100 also reminded me of the TP100, but of the newer "better" versions of the TP100 I've played. So, not great, but not terrible.) I do remember seeing some discussion of what they changed from the ES00 to ES110, but don't remember the detail... maybe something about being less solid and more hollow? Apparently something that allowed a very significant reduction in travel weight...

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Apparently Yamaha addresses this on the folded compact action in the CP4 with a leaf spring under each key.

Korg RH3 does the same thing.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2866928 - 07/14/17 07:31 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Randelph]
LarsHarner Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/25/02
Posts: 195
Originally Posted By: Randelph
60 gigs of memory total? Pretty sweet. I suppose that's where Korg will make more money, as part of their expansion packs.

Seems incredibly limited that you can only do split and layer with one part of that being from the ensemble sounds.

Overly limited in terms of editing capability, surely they must have a iPad or computer editor in the works. 60 gigs of memory and such a small screen, it'd be ludicrous otherwise. Guess I'm used to my Nord Stage- of course it's practically half the price, but still, I guess I'm unreasonably expecting more hands on controls. With an editor that'd make all the difference with this board, you'd prepare in advance and load up that favorites bank.

Reminds me a bit of the Korg SP 280, the user interface is overly simplified. For all of its limitations, I found it a fun board to play. But yeah, it does seem like the SV-1 in its simplicity.

A shame they couldn't come in under 35-40 pounds, but I'm sure they tried, manufacturers have got to know by now how many buying decisions this influences.

Can't say this gives me GAS. As the NS3 becomes available, you could probably get a used NS2 88, possibly even the EX, for around the same price, which weighs a little less, is 6 part multi-timbral, and has lots of real time controllers. And, I already know I like the sounds on the Stage.

I suppose it was only a matter of time that we'd get brightly illuminated signage on boards meant for the stage. I suppose for many of us it seems like a point of ridicule, but they did make it something you could turn off, dim or display in different colors, and hey, whatever it takes to get the keyboardist noticed!

Randy


I agree with you on the weight- I actually have a SP280 as well and wish that were a little lighter as well. It is a good board to just dig into for playing rock/blues while my (slightly off topic) ES8 is more for practicing.

I am a huge Korg fan but in a way this is a Kronos "without the Kronos" in a way. Is it the same RH3 action as other boards?

I looked at the downloaded soundlist- so it seems it has mono and stereo versions of many of the AP's, and perhaps 40-50 different B3 sounds. This is good for those just using one speaker/monitor

However, perhaps the ES8 or FP90's are better deals as they have built in speakers for those who want those as well. Right now I use them on my ES8 along with the Electro Voice.

So for $1,500 more one gets a Kronos with actual drawbar controls for example, perhaps really only a $1,300 spread considering retailer discounts etc...

Top
#2866929 - 07/14/17 07:45 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: LarsHarner]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Yeah it's the same RH3. That's that with Korg.
Need to see how it feels either way - I haven't played the Kronos 88 much. Locally I see mainly the 61 on shop floors.

I like the ES8's action, much better than the ES100 or 110.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2866931 - 07/14/17 07:52 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: LarsHarner]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: LarsHarner
So for $1,500 more one gets a Kronos with actual drawbar controls for example

Kronos is much more flexible in tons of ways, but pricier, and bigger/heavier... and philosophically, aimed at a different user, in that you also lose something in exchange for all its extra capabilities... you lose the emphasis on simplicity with all the direct/dedicated controls.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2867214 - 07/16/17 06:38 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
Cybersoniq Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 322
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
It's another "what were they thinking?" moment. It can't be expensive - the Alesis Quadrasynth/QS Series lets you Split/Layer all 16 channels.

It's not always a cost thing. If you're trying to design a board for simple operation with immediate control and minimal menu diving, it may not be sensible to provide 16-zone splits/layers. (And they do have boards that provide that feature for those who need it... not just the more expensive Kronos, but also the less expensive Krome/Kross).

The other thing about "it can't be expensive, because this cheaper board does it" is that you also need to keep in mind the other things the board does that the cheaper board does not do. As I've said before, there are lots of features you can find in thousand dollar boards, but if you put them all into the same board, you don't have a thousand dollar board anymore

Reminds me of the adage you can have it three ways: Good, Fast and Cheap.
Good and Fast won’t be Cheap.
Cheap and Good won’t be Fast.
Cheap and Fast won’t be Good.

Top
#2867236 - 07/16/17 09:39 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Cybersoniq]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
My frustration with the GS remains, at least how it has been presented by Korg to date. It is class-leading with regards to the number and depth of its sound engines, but class-trailing in terms of programmability, customizability and interoperability. What's the point of saying it has HD-1, AL-1 and CX-3 sound engines if one can't access those engines in a meaningful way. For example, there seems to be no provision for loading a Kronos AL-1 program into it.

There are hundreds of song-specific Al-1/CX-3/HD-1 Kronos programs available that I'm sure would be of great benefit to GS users. There are ~200 Korg and third-party sound libraries available in HD-1 format at the Korg Web Store but it's not possible to bring these into the GS. Even if these needed to be modified in some way to bring them into the GS, I'm sure most developers would be on board. I know I would.

It seems at some point Korg has to make a software editor or Kronos conversion utility available.

Busch.

Top
#2867242 - 07/16/17 10:15 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
What's the point of saying it has HD-1, AL-1 and CX-3 sound engines if one can't access those engines in a meaningful way.

Besides the marketing point ("from the Kronos!"), it does communicate the inherent qualities of those engines. So sure, it is disappointing that the CX3 engine does not offer 9-drawbar manipulation in any manner... but the fact that they say it is CX3 based (rather than, say, the rompler playback that the SV1 organ sounds are) still tells us something about its sonic and performance characteristics, and I think that applies to HD1 and AL1 as well. But yeah, probably more marketing. ;-)

Originally Posted By: burningbusch
It seems at some point Korg has to make a software editor or Kronos conversion utility available.

I was hoping this was going to be something of a "Kronos playback" machine, where we could load in our Kronos sounds (albeit without all the real-time control you have on the Kronos), but my feeling is that Korg never intended this to be the board you or I were hoping it might be. There's no sysex implementation, so we can't even look to a third party to possibly create an editor. And with only 64 user-storable sound locations, a software editor or conversion utility would be of somewhat limited use anyway. But I could still see this being a really appealing board for lots of people, just as the SV1 has been, even if it's not the board some of us would have wanted it to be.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2867254 - 07/16/17 11:23 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
George88 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 04/13/12
Posts: 703
Well put, Scott.

Top
#2867255 - 07/16/17 11:26 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
Cybersoniq Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/24/12
Posts: 322
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: burningbusch

[quote=burningbusch]It seems at some point Korg has to make a software editor or Kronos conversion utility available.

I was hoping this was going to be something of a "Kronos playback" machine, where we could load in our Kronos sounds (albeit without all the real-time control you have on the Kronos), but my feeling is that Korg never intended this to be the board you or I were hoping it might be. There's no sysex implementation, so we can't even look to a third party to possibly create an editor. And with only 64 user-storable sound locations, a software editor or conversion utility would be of somewhat limited use anyway. But I could still see this being a really appealing board for lots of people, just as the SV1 has been, even if it's not the board some of us would have wanted it to be.

Agreed that Korg has to have some internal development software to build/manage the libraries for the Grand Stage. Even if Korg wants to tightly control GS libraries, with their existing/future Kronos 3rd party licensed developers, it would make sense to share this editor & conversion tool to port over new GS libraries from those created on the Kronos. Besides, if the Korg GS is borrowing here and there from the Nord Electro 5 playbook, might there be a Korg GS Sound Manager like Nord's?
http://www.nordkeyboards.com/downloads/software-tools/nord-sound-manager

Top
#2867257 - 07/16/17 11:37 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Cybersoniq]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: Cybersoniq
Agreed that Korg has to have some internal development software to build/manage the libraries for the Grand Stage. Even if Korg wants to tightly control GS libraries, with their existing/future Kronos 3rd party licensed developers, it would make sense to share this editor & conversion tool to port over new GS libraries from those created on the Kronos.

A conversion utility for developers sounds a little more feasible than one for end users... they presumably do have something along those lines in-house, and a developer does not necessarily need for everything to be as fully implemented, well documented, and bug free as an end user would demand, developers understand working with "beta" tools, and something like this may never get beyond the beta stage... it only has to be "functional enough." But again, I run into that "64 Favorite" roadblock, which also is all the room the owner has for storing things like custom splits and layers... Unless Korg decides to somehow open up more storage locations (or add the ability to store changes to the 500 sounds already resident), there is just not all that much benefit to be had in third party patches. There's just pretty much no place to put them.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2867396 - 07/17/17 08:04 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Placed my preorder today. My new Nord Piano 3 is starting to make clacking sounds on several keys. This is number three....so I've given it a really good try! The first two had super obvious action problems, but this third one was perfect out of the box. Oh well...I love the Nord Piano Library, so I'm glad I still have my trusty Electro 5D 73! Sweetwater has said I can keep the Nord Piano 3 until the Grandstage arrives, which is looking like about a month (8/18/17). Can't ask for better service than that!
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2867406 - 07/17/17 09:04 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2867440 - 07/17/17 11:08 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Elmer,

I've posted in the main Nord User Forum, the thread in your first link actually. I've not attempted to contact Nord directly, mainly because Sweetwater has handled my issues better than I could have hoped!

Back when I raised these same concerns with Pablo Mastadon regarding my Nord Piano 2, they were extremely responsive and quickly worked to get me a replacement. I didn't keep it long enough to know if it developed problems, because I played a Roland RD-800 and got hooked on that PHA4 concert action.



Edited by Macsaint777 (07/17/17 11:09 AM)
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2867447 - 07/17/17 11:23 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
M_G Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/17/09
Posts: 519
Loc: Germany

Will the SV-1 now discontinued??

It's still on the product page.....
_________________________
Studio: Hammond XK5+XLK5, Roland FP90, Roland FA07, Prophet 6, HX3-Expander, Neo Vent2
Live: Uhl X3-2, Korg Grandstage 73, Nord Electro 4D, Leslie 760 (11pin-mod), KP500S, Roland SA1000

Top
#2867449 - 07/17/17 11:26 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: M_G]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
No, I don't believe so. The SV-1 is still a great seller at $1-$1.7k and they've been playing the colour game. Last was metallic red.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2867454 - 07/17/17 11:33 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: M_G]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: M_G

Will the SV-1 now discontinued??

It's still on the product page.....

As Elmer said, it is in a whole different price category than the GS, so they will probably keep both. Which I think is good because, even regardless of price or all the other cool things the GS can do that the SV1 can't, I imagine some people will still prefer the SV1. It remains unique in its looks, and its particular soundset (EPs in particular), with the tube, and with its additional effects controls. And in fact that latest Red edition only came out in March of this year.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2867460 - 07/17/17 11:58 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 11187
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: M_G

Will the SV-1 now discontinued??

It's still on the product page.....

As Elmer said, it is in a whole different price category than the GS, so they will probably keep both. Which I think is good because, even regardless of price or all the other cool things the GS can do that the SV1 can't, I imagine some people will still prefer the SV1. It remains unique in its looks, and its particular soundset (EPs in particular), with the tube, and with its additional effects controls. And in fact that latest Red edition only came out in March of this year.


I wish I could get that SV1 Wurli EP sound out of my Kronos!

When we did the KC hang in Chicago a few years back, RedKey brought his Wurlitzer 200 and we had an SV1 and a Kronos there to do side by side comparisons. The SV1 definitely came the closest. You'd think having a dedicated engine, that the Kronos could get there. I'm guessing that the tube in the SV1 is the magic sauce. It would be cool in a future Kronos if they could add a tube and make it available as an IFX.


Edited by J. Dan (07/17/17 12:01 PM)
_________________________
Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

Top
#2867462 - 07/17/17 12:00 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5527
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
Placed my preorder today. My new Nord Piano 3 is starting to make clacking sounds on several keys. This is number three....so I've given it a really good try! The first two had super obvious action problems, but this third one was perfect out of the box. Oh well...I love the Nord Piano Library, so I'm glad I still have my trusty Electro 5D 73! Sweetwater has said I can keep the Nord Piano 3 until the Grandstage arrives, which is looking like about a month (8/18/17). Can't ask for better service than that!



Sorry for the OT but OMG ! Are you kidding me ?! facepalm

I would think at this juncture Pablo would jump in and make things right ? Is he (or anyone at Nord) aware of what you are going through with all this ?
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5

Top
#2867481 - 07/17/17 12:45 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Dave Ferris]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Apologies for the repost, but Dave, would you and any others mind looking at this and telling me if you feel this is just me being OCD (or crazy) I am perfectly willing to be one or both in this case!

Here is my original reply to Elmer, just FYI.


Elmer,

I've posted in the main Nord User Forum, the thread in your first link actually. I've not attempted to contact Nord directly, mainly because Sweetwater has handled my issues better than I could have hoped!

Back when I raised these same concerns with Pablo Mastadon regarding my Nord Piano 2, they were extremely responsive and quickly worked to get me a replacement. I didn't keep it long enough to know if it developed problems, because I played a Roland RD-800 and got hooked on that PHA4 concert action.




LINK TO ISSUE WITH NORD PIANO NUMBER 3.


https://youtu.be/RJLvuzdJwOI
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2868095 - 07/20/17 06:08 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5527
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
Apologies for the repost, but Dave, would you and any others mind looking at this and telling me if you feel this is just me being OCD (or crazy) I am perfectly willing to be one or both in this case!

LINK TO ISSUE WITH NORD PIANO NUMBER 3.
https://youtu.be/RJLvuzdJwOI


Sorry for the late reply, I'd totally forgot about this.

Yes, a little clicking on the Bb and obviously a lot on the Eb.

Do you hear this while you're playing - either through phones or speakers ? Would you notice it out on the gig in a band ?

In any case, it sounds like it's a done deal - you returned it and said enough already of the NP3. I don't think anyone would blame you at this point. rolleyes

Sorry Ben , hope you have better luck with the Korg.
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5

Top
#2868099 - 07/20/17 06:23 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Dave Ferris]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
No apologies needed! I'm keeping the Nord Piano 3 until the Korg GrandStage ships to me, then (assuming all is well with the Korg) I'll return the Nord. I still say Nord makes fantastic keyboards, the Stage 3 being a gigging musicians dream, and my Electro 5 D is my favorite clone wheel to date, but man oh man.. this Fatar TP 40 H is just... something. Feels nice actually, plays well.. but yes, I can hear all the clicks and clacks live and at home. Korg has had enough time to get this RH3 right this time around, surely they have learned from the debacle with the Kronos, so I feel good about the GS. I think though, more important than the company that makes your gear, is the one who sells it to you, and if it had not been for the one I am using, this would have been a much worse experience. I'll report back when I get it, and I will absolutely do a video showing ALL the sounds in the GS as I did for the NP3, CP4, and RD-2000.

The more I listen to the GS demos, the better I think these piano sounds are. In a live session, I think they should cut through quite nicely, and I've always got the Nord Electro 5D to get those Nord Pianos!


Cheers!


Ben
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2868147 - 07/20/17 11:51 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2868164 - 07/21/17 04:29 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
Ashville.Guru Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/29/07
Posts: 1843
Loc: India
Embedding the two videos above for better visibility:

Mickie Yoshino:



Rick Wakeman:



- Guru
_________________________
“This is really what MIDI was originally about — encouraging cooperation between companies that make the world a more creative place." - Dave Smith

Top
#2868180 - 07/21/17 06:03 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Ashville.Guru]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Oh my, did Rick just go through the motions? Phoning it in, as the actors say.

I think he's done a few too many endorsement spots in his day.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2868208 - 07/21/17 07:05 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Rusty Mike Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 10/05/10
Posts: 742
Loc: Central NJ
He's paid by the accolade LOL
_________________________
Mike from Central NJ
Tools: Ten fingers, two feet, middle-age brain, questionable judgement and taste
Toys: More gear than I could afford when I had talent and did this for a living

Top
#2868214 - 07/21/17 07:14 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Oh my, did Rick just go through the motions? Phoning it in, as the actors say.

I think he's done a few too many endorsement spots in his day.

The big question is, does he love it to bits?

_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2868218 - 07/21/17 07:39 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
smile
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2869014 - 07/24/17 03:02 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
So, the Grandstage uses the RH3 action, which I understand uses two sensors, not the now more commonly found three sensor per key. I'm coming from an RD-2000, CP4, and Nord Piano 3. Do you think that will be an issue for me? These kinds of specs often do not really matter in real life use, but I've not played anything with an RH3 action besides a Kronos for about an hour. I didn't play it like a piano, and the SV-1 my church has, I only used long enough to train our staff on, I wasn't really playing it 'for real".

Thoughts?

Thanks!
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2869017 - 07/24/17 03:28 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5527
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
It was never for me - the Kronos or SV1. I did a quick search and tried to find some old comments that I had playing both in a Jazz context. Couldn't find anything.

Basically in a nutshell I had a hard time executing Jazz lines and heads on the Korgs compared to the Yamaha CP4 and CP5. I felt my improvisational flow was highly hindered both by the sound and action of the Korgs , on AP.

My concern is you're coming from the three best actions - at least imo - available in a portable stage piano at this point in time. For someone who thinks of themselves as more a pianist then a rock keyboardist, I really feel this is a step down.

Like I said earlier, I'd have my doubts, a year out, if the Korg would be fulfilling for you - if the AP was the most important part of the musical equation.

On the other hand, everyone hears, plays and connects with these electronic keyboards differently, in addition to their musical context, so it might be ok for you.

Since it is Sweetwater, they know what you've gone through and you have it on order - try the Korg for a few weeks and see what you think. Definitely use it on a gig though.

If doesn't do it for you maybe the CP4 again or take another shot with the NP3 (and just live with the noisy action ) ? idk
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5

Top
#2869035 - 07/24/17 06:04 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
So, the Grandstage uses the RH3 action, which I understand uses two sensors, not the now more commonly found three sensor per key. I'm coming from an RD-2000, CP4, and Nord Piano 3. Do you think that will be an issue for me?

The third sensor is useful for same note repeats (particularly quiet ones) and trills, as you do not need to lift the key as high in order to be able to retrigger it. It also means that, without the sustain pedal down, you can repeat a note without having to silence it first (with the sustain pedal, you can always do that). So the importance of a third sensor depends on the importance of those techniques in your playing.

Regardless of third sensor, it's always somewhat subjective, but personally, I think RH3 is okay... not the best, not the worst. On the SV1, it somehow manages to connect especially well with the board's EP sounds. Though on the SV1, there is a phenomenon that many people experience where, every now and then, you'll play a note and it immediately drops out. Apparently this also happened on early Kronos, but was fixed later.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2869375 - 07/26/17 10:28 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Sent my third Nord Piano 3 back today, and went to test a Yamaha Montage and Korg Kronos 2 (73 and 88) side by side, since the Grandstage has the Kronos sound engines and same RH3 action. I was left with the shocking feeling that the Montage was an EDM toy with Motif sounds and an FM synth inside.. and by no means did I find it impressive, it was rather laggy and the action was sluggish, even more so than the RH3 on the Korg right next to it. I will say this, based on how the piano sounds responded to my playing in the Montage, I absolutely would not buy one for a stage piano. The Kronos on the other hand, I rather liked the Piano sounds, and 90% of the other sounds. All around, the Kronos 2 was very impressive! I called my Sweetwater sales rep right away and told him to cancel the Grandstage order and send me a 73 key Kronos 2! I resisted the workstation "super keyboard" bandwagon for a long while.. but here we go again, and I was very aware that the RH3 action was not as quick or responsive as the Nord Piano 3, CP4, or RD-2000...but it was pretty good nonetheless, much better than that Montage! I also ordered a Yamaha CP4 again, because...well... it can't be beat for a stage piano.. it just can't. Action wise, probability, and sounds, it is a killer package, and whatever they eventually replace it with, I will buy quickly! Even the CFX samples on the Montage didn't sound as good as the CP4, which was weird!

So, Kronos 2 73 for the road, gigs. CP4 for home, and the occasional all piano sound gigs. Most of the time it will be the Kronos 2 73 on bottom and Nord Electro 5D 73 on top. I've got the CP4 for those demanding piano gigs, so hopefully the journey is over for a while for me!

The Grandstage looks like a good option, but as a primary Stage Piano, the RH3 for sure is not going to cut it for the jazz and fast stuff.

Having had a Nord Piano 3, RD-2000, and CP4, I can say that the CP4 is a killer stage piano.

Cheers!



Ben


Edited by Macsaint777 (07/27/17 04:39 AM)
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2869383 - 07/26/17 11:59 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5527
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Sounds like a good move. Can't beat the CP4 !

I'd love to have a Kronos 2 73 has an auxiliary keyboard.
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5

Top
#2869415 - 07/27/17 05:28 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Sounds like a great solution!

FWIW, the RH3 on the Kronos feels a little different from the RH3 on the SV1, and I will assume, probably on the GrandStage as well, as I'm guessing that the difference may come from the fact that the Kronos has aftertouch and the others don't.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2869429 - 07/27/17 07:19 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
ProfD Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 9235
Loc: Wash DC Area
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
FWIW, the RH3 on the Kronos feels a little different from the RH3 on the SV1, and I will assume, probably on the GrandStage as well, as I'm guessing that the difference may come from the fact that the Kronos has aftertouch and the others don't.

That difference in terms of FTEC is the primary reason I prefer the SV-1 over the Kronos. IMO, the SV-1 EPs respond better to the RH3 action.

Listening to demos of the Grandstage, it sounds like a Kronos. If it feels the same too, my SV-1 is safe.

Of course, I'm still going to play the Grandstage but the online demo has been Tums-like. grin cool
_________________________
PD

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

Top
#2869712 - 07/28/17 05:53 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ProfD]
scales Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 93
Loc: Daphne, AL
I'm looking at the Grandstage as a dedicated DP as well, maybe NP-3. As far as Montage is concerned, way too heavy for a lot of gigging unless you have a super back or roadies to help. But I do have one in my studio. I get the whole EDM critique although I'm in no way engaged in that genre. I will say that after a year with the Montage it is quite the synth. It has taken some time for me to learn how to mix/match FM with AMW and not sound like the 80's. Time & Patience has been rewarding in terms of creativity. I also have a Kronos 61. The two compliment each other quite nicely. As far as actions, it feels very similar to the CP-4. I suppose I'm in the minority as I love the piano (sample)/ keys connection. I'm particularly fond of the CFX sample.

Like many of you I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the GS and/also NP-3 if I could find one. The key clicking thing scares me. I do like RH3 and truly believe the GS will be a killer gigging board.

Top
#2869727 - 07/28/17 10:08 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: scales]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Please do NOT feel obligated to watch this.. but this chronicles my recent journey through keyboard hades... from the RD-2000, to the Nord Piano 3, and now to the Kronos (which arrives Tuesday).



It is almost funny... except, it happened to me.


https://youtu.be/u2n4HQR4MaA


Cheers!


Ben


Edited by Macsaint777 (07/28/17 10:09 PM)
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2869785 - 07/29/17 01:11 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: scales]
davedoerfler Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 6396
Loc: thin ice
from our friends at Reverb, I hope someone finds this helpful

_________________________
I need to practice more than I do, and that will make my current gear - first rate, by any measure - sound even better than it already does.
Tim Wat

Top
#2869803 - 07/29/17 06:17 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: davedoerfler]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
That is one of the better videos! Ironically, it is drenched in well... REVERB!
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2870911 - 08/04/17 02:01 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
The Grandstage is now in stock at Sweetwater (just ordered one) and Kraft.
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2870915 - 08/04/17 02:05 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Oooo, that's interesting. After messing with everything else lately - curious how you compare it to CP4, NP3, RD2000.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2870920 - 08/04/17 02:20 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I'll let you know! I have a Kronos 2 73 right now, but alas it has a problem with one of the keys (verified by video sent to Sweetwater)... so the saga continues.. I LOVE the Kronos, killer machine, awesome awesome power. I unfortunately bought the Epic Grand piano pack and now I have no keyboard to use it in.. don't think refunds are available for that. Sending the Kronos 2 73 back, getting the Grandstage shipped. Will do a video on its sounds and write a review here as well, as soon as possible.
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2870925 - 08/04/17 02:25 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Your run of luck on actions delivered to your door in working order is abysmal. frown
So we're wondering if the RH3 plays any better without the after touch strip.

Have you tried the Forte 7? Or MP7?
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2870936 - 08/04/17 03:04 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I agree, and in this case, I think it is probably more important to choose a dealer who will stand behind you no matter what, than it is to pick a specific make of keyboard. Nord, Roland, Korg, they are all subject to action issues. At this point, I'm not even upset about it. I'm just resigned, we will see how the Grandstage goes!

I have not tried a Forte 7 or MP7 series, but I've had problems with Kurzweil in the past, and just never had enough courage to try a Kawai, given the quality issues I've read about. Then again, at this point, I think it is a bit of a crapshoot no matter what!
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2871351 - 08/07/17 04:14 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Sent my Kronos 2 73 back this morning, and the Grandstage 88 will arrive Wednesday. Stay tuned! Seeing as how not a single non-Korg/dealer video is out on this thing, I am planning to do a full review and demo of all sounds.



Edited by Macsaint777 (08/08/17 12:27 AM)
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2871794 - 08/09/17 08:27 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
This is coming from an unabashed Korg fan, so...

I played a GS at a local shop (American Music Seattle). Was pleasantly impressed with it. The overall feel is very solid but it's light in weight. Startup time is 40 seconds.

Most of the acoustic pianos are what we're familiar with on the Kronos, but I did like the new grand and upright, certainly some of the best Korg has done to date. I liked how the EP-1 Rhodes was dialed in. It sounded different than what I'm used to on the Kronos. The new clavinet samples sounded good, though I didn't notice any release samples. The German EP (assume Hohner Pianet of some sort) sounded more T than N. The new Vox and Farfisa sounded great. I really liked the Vox. These combined with the CX-3 makes organs an area with the GS stands apart from other stage pianos with their largely mediocre organs.

I was surprised by the number of string and brass sounds. Plenty from which to choose. And then the pads, synth leads and basses plus gtr and ele basses. Really a nice cross section of sounds. I don't know that I'd call it the "best of the Kronos" but still good quality stuff for the most part.

The DYNAMICS control seems to act as more of a velocity curve adjustment rather than a compressor. I liked it dialed back to maybe 11:00.

For people who view these stage pianos through the acoustic piano lens primarily with the other sounds a distant second, there are many other options which is good as there are strong preferences related to how these digital piano recreations are supposed to sound. But, the engines do make a difference and it's clear once you start going through the organs, the more extensively sampled instruments and the AL-1 sounds, that the GS is very strong across a broad range of sounds.

Busch.

Top
#2871811 - 08/09/17 09:33 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Helpful perspective, Busch. Without digging in the manual, what aspects of the piano sounds did you immediately have access to to tweak at a gig?
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2871828 - 08/09/17 10:24 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Helpful perspective, Busch. Without digging in the manual, what aspects of the piano sounds did you immediately have access to to tweak at a gig?


Not knowing how the two switches and wheels were assigned, I mainly just went through the variations (normal, mono, dark, etc.) and then used the Dynamics control and EQ. Very basic stuff here, especially for someone used to doing a lot of tweaking.

Busch.

Top
#2871837 - 08/09/17 10:44 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5527
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Your impressions are always held in the highest regard Bill. Thanks.

In spite of my initial misgivings on the GS, I'd certainly like to play one .

I did dig my two SV-1 88s I owned. Just not the APs or the action problems on the second one.
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5

Top
#2871840 - 08/09/17 10:49 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
zephonic Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 3628
Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
I liked how the EP-1 Rhodes was dialed in. It sounded different than what I'm used to on the Kronos.


The EP presets on the Kronos are some of my favorites, particularly the'Butterfly' and 'GeorgeDuke' preset. Are those not present on the Grandstage? That would be a pity, I could be play those presets for days.
_________________________
connect


Top
#2872139 - 08/10/17 03:38 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: zephonic]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
My Grandstage arrived today, and I am really enjoying it! Plays better than an SV-1 or a Kronos! Well built, though the reviewers saying it has a sturdy wooden bottom, need to remember that MDF is not wood. Working on a video review, but for now, here are all the Acoustic Piano sounds if anyone is interested. Oh.. and miracle of miracles... not a single problem with the action! The stand is quite nice too, very easily disassembled, and sturdier than I expected.

https://youtu.be/_TqDAZdTW1Q


Edited by Macsaint777 (08/10/17 03:39 PM)
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2872153 - 08/10/17 04:15 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Wow, after all you've been through, I wouldn't have guessed the GrandStage would get the gold star! Nothing against Korg (I have a Kronos and an SV1, among other Korgs), but they are rarely mentioned as anyone's top choice for either action or piano sound (a lot of people like them, but few rank them as best in these areas). Though this is a combination we haven't seen before... their latest piano tech, mated to the current RH3 without aftertouch.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2872164 - 08/10/17 04:49 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Could they be using a particle board base? Very possible given the 44.09lbs.
Can you comment on action compared to NP3 and RD-2000 and any others that are fresh in your memory? Key travel seem right/length of drop? Returns to position quickly enough? Path is clean and smooth, no excessive wabble? Impact seem natural, no tiring in wrist or or forearm when using piano technique? Are you dialing in the expression knob or using default?

I'm not thrilled generally about the previous RH3s I've played, like on the Kronos 8 but it did do pretty well on EP sounds in the SV-1. But I dislike the APs on the SV-1 so much it's hard to tell which is more to blame - the action or the piano sample/engine.

I'm intrigued, the variety of pianos is quite nice. Your YouTube is giving me the impression this is what it really sounds like with no messing about. Must find one on a shop floor... would I be happy with the 73k? The weight is right. I can do 37.48lbs no problem.

I wonder when the PX-5S successor is coming... will Kawai get weight down on their next MP? Enquiring minds want to know!
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2872165 - 08/10/17 05:01 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
16251 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 2638
I can't get past the acoustic piano sound. Too ________ . I've been following Korg since I owned a SGD1 and liked that piano. Great presentation 777.
_________________________
AG N2 | CP4 | SSv3 | GK MK & MP

Top
#2872168 - 08/10/17 05:13 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: 16251]
rickzjamm Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 661
Can you tweak the sounds or what you hear is what you get & is there space for imported sounds? I like the weight factor coupled withed the weighted bed.
_________________________
Plan your work & work your plan.

Top
#2872170 - 08/10/17 05:20 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: rickzjamm]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Apparently you can tweak the pianos with an articulation knob, EQ, and fx like reverb quickly. In that regard this does the job in a live piano setting which is what the Grandstage concept appears to be. For deep editing you want a Kronos.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2872179 - 08/10/17 06:17 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
rickzjamm Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 661
Probably the KorgKronos2 7, not too much heavier weight wise.
_________________________
Plan your work & work your plan.

Top
#2872184 - 08/10/17 06:52 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Dave Ferris]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Your impressions are always held in the highest regard Bill. Thanks.



Thanks Dave. Right back at you.

Busch.

Top
#2872189 - 08/10/17 06:55 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
My Grandstage arrived today, and I am really enjoying it! Plays better than an SV-1 or a Kronos! Well built, though the reviewers saying it has a sturdy wooden bottom, need to remember that MDF is not wood. Working on a video review, but for now, here are all the Acoustic Piano sounds if anyone is interested. Oh.. and miracle of miracles... not a single problem with the action! The stand is quite nice too, very easily disassembled, and sturdier than I expected.

https://youtu.be/_TqDAZdTW1Q


Great demos of those APs. Thanks for posting.

There's something nice and solid about the GS, how it plays and feels. Maybe they're on rev C of the RH3, I don't know. I do know it felt a lot better than my six-year-old-played-every-day-for-hours Kronos 73.

Busch.

Top
#2872196 - 08/10/17 07:40 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
rickzjamm Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 661
burningbusch aren't they the same keyed action?
_________________________
Plan your work & work your plan.

Top
#2872197 - 08/10/17 07:41 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: rickzjamm]
rickzjamm Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 661
keybed
_________________________
Plan your work & work your plan.

Top
#2872198 - 08/10/17 07:51 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: rickzjamm]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: rickzjamm
burningbusch aren't they the same keyed action?

Technically, yes. But these companies make changes and sometimes distinguish those changes with a different name/rev, but not always. The Kronos has aftertouch; the GS does not. The case is different. There could be other internal differences. I'd be speculating. But my Kronos action is well worn and I suspect playing a new Kronos will feel much tighter, maybe just like the GS. The store I was at doesn't carry the Kronos so I couldn't compare.

Busch.

Top
#2872208 - 08/10/17 08:32 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
This is not a full review, I will post that in video form in the next few days, but here are my thoughts thus far, having played a Kronos 2 73 (new) the last week, and now playing the Grandstage 88 all day.

1. Action: Something is DIFFERENT here besides just the missing aftertouch strip. The Grandstage, set without the dynamics knob turned on, and with the same velocity curve I was using on the Kronos 2 73 (number 9, the wide option) responds much better than the Kronos did. There is a feeling of lightness pressing into the keys, and the first few minutes of playing the Grandstage, made me feel like it was going to be too lightly weighted, but within an hour, that wore off and I was really warming up to it. I agree with Busch that Korg is likely using a different revision of the RH3 in the Grandstage. The general impression I get is that the whole keybed is just more solid and tight than the Kronos 2 73 I had for a few days. Again, this is with no adjustments of the dynamics knob. I like the response and feel of the Grandstage better than the Kronos 2 73, and MUCH better than the SV-1 we have at church. Something else that feels slightly different, is the gradation of the different zones. At least to me, it feels like there is a distinct difference in the upper and lower registers, something I didn't really notice on the Kronos. Action compared to the CP4, Nord Piano 3, and RD-2000/800. The CP4 is still the fastest and best to respond to quick movements. The Nord Piano 3 does very well in this regard as well, and the RD-2000, is a better feeling action, but not quite as quick as those two. The Grandstage RH3, while not as solid as the CP4 or Nord Piano 3, is not the typical RH3, and that is a good thing. The key travel seems natural, and even though this is a double sensor action, it responds quite well and is snappy, more so than the Kronos 2 73 I just returned. The RH3 feels smooth, and doesn't bottom out too hard. I don't get any feeling of sponginess or softness from the RH3. I've messed with the dynamics knob, but I tend to leave it basically the same as if it were off.

2. Build Quality: The Grandstage is built very well. The knobs, EQ sliders, pitch and mod wheel, keybed, end cheeks, metal piece under the keys, and the top and back case all feel reassuringly solid and well put together. It isn't an RD-2000 or Nord Piano 3, but it is miles above the CP4 in terms of feeling solid and hefty (in a good way). The knobs on the SV-1 have a wobble that I always hated. Not so the Grandstage. The OLED displays, while small, are bright and clear, and I don't see anyone having a problem with reading them. The KORG logo on the back...I'll turn it off live, no doubt, but it is fun! They have a feature where it flashes in response to your playing, I've been messing around with that. One thing I find odd, is the implantation of the power button. I really like the way the Kronos has the recessed button that flips open and closed. The Grandstage, has the soft button you press one time to turn on, and hold down to turn off. Power up time is 38 seconds on mine, so while they might be using an SSD here, it is much much faster than the Kronos.

3. Sounds: Having the two new pianos (Italian and Upright) is awesome. I wouldn't think "Korg" hearing these two sounds, since they have an attack and overall feel that is not as percussive or fast to decay as the others. They don't give you that "Korgy" piano sound feel. The other sounds, all from the Kronos except the handful of new organs and calvinets/pipe organs, are generally very good. The weak points are the same as those on the Kronos. Brass and reed orchestral instruments, and guitars. Bagpipes are pretty awful too, but I've never seen that done well except on the Jupiter 80!

The editing options for sounds is so limited, I don't know how Korg gets away with calling these "engines"...you can't even adjust the pedal noise, you just have the ability to turn on or off all piano noises. I expected the newest updates to SGX-2 to include sympathetic string resonance, like on the Kronos.. but the Grandstage does NOT have string resonance, though it does had pedal resonance. The CP4 doesn't have string resonance either, but the RD-2000 and Nord Piano 3 both do, so I got used to it. It is possible Korg could add this later with an update, but right now, you get Korgs idea of what the noise level should be on all the pianos, and frankly, it is extremely low. Last bit on the sounds. I'll connect the Grandstage to my Mac and use Omnisphere and a Korg NanoKONTROL 2, so this isn't a huge deal...however, on the Kronos, you can sweep the filter cutoff with knobs, or assign the cutoff to another controller. On the Grandstage, you can get to filter cutoff, but you do so by pressing Edit, and then scrolling through, then you can sweep the filter using the level knob. I really wish I would just assign cutoff to the mod wheel, but this is not possible. Another thing you can't do, is name your edited sounds. Yes, seriously. At present, you are limited to minor adjustments, and then saving the sounds in one of the favorites banks, but your sound will still retain the same name even if you have changed it. I hope an editor becomes available to allow you to at least name your own sounds.


Those are my initial thoughts. Hope that is useful!

Ben
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2872210 - 08/10/17 08:54 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Great review!

Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
even though this is a double sensor action, it responds quite well and is snappy

The advantages of a triple sensor (in those boards that have it) are only noticeable in very specific instances. Mostly in gentle note repetitions and trills. Also on legato repeated notes when you're not using the damper pedal. So it's not something most people would notice in a lot of typical playing.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2872213 - 08/10/17 09:06 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777


I expected the newest updates to SGX-2 to include sympathetic string resonance, like on the Kronos.. but the Grandstage does NOT have string resonance, though it does had pedal resonance. The CP4 doesn't have string resonance either, but the RD-2000 and Nord Piano 3 both do, so I got used to it. It is possible Korg could add this later with an update, but right now, you get Korgs idea of what the noise level should be on all the pianos, and frankly, it is extremely low.


Great info Ben. Possibly you've done this, but double check string resonance on all the pianos. I found that when Korg introduced the SGX-2 engine, the SR was more clearly heard on the Berlin vs. German/Japanese/Austrian. Maybe it's there but very quiet on some, or maybe it's not there at all.

Busch.

Top
#2872364 - 08/11/17 11:11 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Busch,

Yes I checked them all. No sympathetic string resonance. Plenty of damper resonance though, so it isn't really noticeable, like for example on the CP4.
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2872527 - 08/12/17 08:53 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area






Edited by ElmerJFudd (08/12/17 08:55 AM)
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2872543 - 08/12/17 11:04 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
gg22 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 71
EP's don't sound authentic to me, more like "Lounge Lizard" than "Rhodes".


Edited by gg22 (08/12/17 11:05 AM)

Top
#2872560 - 08/12/17 02:23 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: gg22]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
My new video of all EPs. https://youtu.be/ZPbUVvMlsI8
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2872561 - 08/12/17 02:24 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: gg22]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
For what it is worth, comparing them side by side with those in Keyscape, it is REALLY close.
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2872564 - 08/12/17 02:35 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
scales Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 93
Loc: Daphne, AL
What a fine specimen of a keyboard an outstanding representation of modern technology smile

Top
#2872573 - 08/12/17 05:56 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
My new video of all EPs. https://youtu.be/ZPbUVvMlsI8


Thanx for sharing. Unfortunately the Korg presets are so dressed up in fx I can't get a sense of what the base samples sound like. Anyone else feel that way?
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2872581 - 08/12/17 09:04 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
gg22 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/03/14
Posts: 71
Best Grandstage demo so far. Thanks Macsaint777.

Top
#2872587 - 08/13/17 12:06 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
My new video of all EPs. https://youtu.be/ZPbUVvMlsI8


Thanx for sharing. Unfortunately the Korg presets are so dressed up in fx I can't get a sense of what the base samples sound like. Anyone else feel that way?


Elmer, I'll do one with no reverb, and no effects showing just the EP sounds, so you can get a good idea of what the basic samples (I think it is modeled actually) sound like.
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2872651 - 08/13/17 11:56 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
drawback Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 3254
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
My new video of all EPs. https://youtu.be/ZPbUVvMlsI8


Thanx for sharing. Unfortunately the Korg presets are so dressed up in fx I can't get a sense of what the base samples sound like. Anyone else feel that way?


Elmer, I'll do one with no reverb, and no effects showing just the EP sounds, so you can get a good idea of what the basic samples (I think it is modeled actually) sound like.



I'm interested in this, too. I was pleasantly surprised with the lack of that familiar Korg cheese in the AP samples - they sound pretty dynamic! I've thought since the SV-1 that Korg had the best EPs in hardware, so they'd be a no-brainer, but yeah, each time I hear a Rhodes saturated with stereotypical tremolo/phaser/flanger/wah whatever, my ears glaze over and I fast forward. Just tones, please!! And... can you find time to give us another for basses?

Really do appreciate your work on this, Macsaint777.



Edited by drawback (08/13/17 12:08 PM)
Edit Reason: Clarity
_________________________
"I think we had it on take four, Burt." ~ Sir George Martin

Kawai KG2 | Studiologic SL88 | Mojo61 | Pianoteq 6 | Ravenscroft 275 | Korg Module

Top
#2872655 - 08/13/17 12:14 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: drawback]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: drawback
I've thought since the SV-1 that Korg had the best EPs in hardware, so they'd be a no-brainer

though as discussed in another thread a while back, the SV1 was from Korg Italy and the Grandstage (like Kronos) is from Korg Japan, and there are numerous differences in the technologies they are using. The SV1 had the tube, too.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2872656 - 08/13/17 12:18 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
drawback Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 3254
Loc: Canada
Ah - haven't been following. Admittedly Korg hasn't been on my radar!
_________________________
"I think we had it on take four, Burt." ~ Sir George Martin

Kawai KG2 | Studiologic SL88 | Mojo61 | Pianoteq 6 | Ravenscroft 275 | Korg Module

Top
#2872665 - 08/13/17 01:19 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
My new video of all EPs. https://youtu.be/ZPbUVvMlsI8


Thanx for sharing. Unfortunately the Korg presets are so dressed up in fx I can't get a sense of what the base samples sound like. Anyone else feel that way?


Elmer, I'll do one with no reverb, and no effects showing just the EP sounds, so you can get a good idea of what the basic samples (I think it is modeled actually) sound like.



That would be awesome.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2872775 - 08/14/17 03:04 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Elmer, as promised. SoundCloud is faster, and no video is needed. So here are all the Korg Grandstage EPs with no added effects, no Eq, and no reverb.

https://soundcloud.com/macsaint777/sets/korg-grandstage-eps-with-no-effects

Drawback, I am working on another video of all the other sounds, but won't have time to complete it until late this week. I'm going away for a few days, but should be done by this weekend.
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2872809 - 08/14/17 07:07 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
rickzjamm Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 661
So if I'm following the Korg logic (and I'm probably not), the SV1, Kronos & Grandstage all have different keybed actions?
_________________________
Plan your work & work your plan.

Top
#2872817 - 08/14/17 07:23 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
Elmer, as promised. SoundCloud is faster, and no video is needed. So here are all the Korg Grandstage EPs with no added effects, no Eq, and no reverb.

https://soundcloud.com/macsaint777/sets/korg-grandstage-eps-with-no-effects

Drawback, I am working on another video of all the other sounds, but won't have time to complete it until late this week. I'm going away for a few days, but should be done by this weekend.


Really helpful. OK - definitely a modeled sound. Not bad or good, just a quality. These timbres would work in a lot of settings, particularly with band. But not as detailed as what we're getting from large sample libraries in Kontakt or Omnisphere - stuff noticeable to us as players and lovers of these historic electromechanical instruments.

I think I prefer Pianoteq's tines and reeds over Korg's EP-1, at least in this situation where you don't get the edit-ability like you do on the Kronos.

The acoustic pianos I am pleasantly surprised by though, especially compared with what they put on the SV-1. wink
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2873986 - 08/20/17 02:22 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Just updated this playlist with Clav, Organ, and Strings category videos. More to come! All sounds have been recorded, just have a bit more camera work to do. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjCOMFI84DNY6e1_wE5UaXbCbYUq4IFP5
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2873993 - 08/20/17 04:56 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
Dockeys Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/12/13
Posts: 131
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
These videos are great Ben. Very detailed and they give an excellent indication of the sound source. Really appreciate you taking the time to do them. 👍
_________________________
Yamaha Motif XF8, Yamaha MOXF8, Hammond SK2.

Top
#2874005 - 08/20/17 08:48 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Dockeys]
Theo Verelst Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/27/10
Posts: 3636
I've gone over some parts of the hours of video, and think for sure it wouldn't be a keyboard of my interest. Probably more than a few sounds are musically usable, I'd feel a little Yamaha-d instead of only be-Korg-ed, which sounds cooler, but in reality the challenge of playing this board is not to my liking, it's like imposing a character that I suppose is O.K., but it doesn't appeal to me at all.

T

Top
#2874010 - 08/20/17 09:22 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Theo Verelst]
rickzjamm Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 661
Seems to be a watered down version of the Korg Kronos, and that's not a bad thing at all. Will definitely give boards in its price range a run for their money like the CP4 or the Roland RD – 800 which has been discontinued
_________________________
Plan your work & work your plan.

Top
#2874555 - 08/22/17 09:02 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: rickzjamm]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I don't mean to hog the forum with all my posts, but if anyone wants a long and extensive review of the new Korg Grandstage, I have just done one, and now finished with all the sound category videos.


Korg Grandstage Review (extended).

https://youtu.be/4h7z9tVUEQ4


And here is a shorter version. https://youtu.be/hlwHNGdYSv4

I've also completed the full playlist with all sound category examples and it contains the two reviews.

Here is the playlist.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLjCOMFI84DNY6e1_wE5UaXbCbYUq4IFP5

Hope this is helpful!

Ben


Edited by Macsaint777 (08/23/17 04:02 AM)
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2874748 - 08/23/17 12:41 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
scales Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 93
Loc: Daphne, AL
Ben,
I for one am very grateful for your hard work. Much appreciated! From the looks, you might be the only owner of one on this forum. I'm waiting for one to trickle into a store in my area and may be waiting a while. The local Korg dealer in my area is not going to order one until he moves some of his Kronos stock. If you don't mind, how would you compare the action to the NP-3? thanks

Top
#2874894 - 08/24/17 08:22 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: scales]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Scales,

Thanks! Glad you find the videos helpful! As for the action in the NP3, I like it a lot. It feels more substantial than the RH3, but is not graded. It is shallower than the RH3, but still deep enough to play with plenty of expression and feeling. I was loathe to give my NP3 up, but after three in a row, I just wasn't willing to try number four. Overall, I prefer the CP4 action to the RH3, and the NP3 action would be next. I would say the Grandstage would be nearly perfect if I could have the CP4 action in it! Even the NP3 action would be great too, but though the RH3 is the biggest weak point of the Grandstage, it is still fine for me. If Yamaha ever follows up the CP4, you can be sure I'll jump on that one!
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2874970 - 08/24/17 01:10 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
scales Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 93
Loc: Daphne, AL
Ben,
I used to have a CP-4. Very smooth action but caused me fatigue. I'm not blaming the keybed but have had surgery on both wrists and have lost strength. I was hoping the RH3 was a lighter action than the CP4. I've never played the fatar TP-40H which is in the NP-3. I assume the action is on the heavier side since it's designated "H". Would you consider the RH3 to be about the same or maybe a bit lighter than the NP-3.? I'm close to taking a chance and placing an order. Could be wrong but I think the predecessor to the CP4 could be in the distant future being that the CP4 is such a good seller.

Top
#2875034 - 08/24/17 06:16 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: scales]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Scales,

So sorry to hear about the issues with your surgery! I personally prefer a heavy action, which the TP40-H is supposed to be, but I didn't feel it was very heavy. Lucky for you, the RH3 in the Grandstage is actually lighter than the CP4 or NP3. If I could change one thing about it, I'd make it heavier, so in your case, it should work quite well! Sweetwater.com has plenty in stock, and though I wouldn't want to tell anyone where to purchase their equipment, Sweetwater has provided the most incredible support for me along this journey, I just cannot recommend them highly enough!

Hope that helps!

Ben


Edited by Macsaint777 (08/24/17 06:17 PM)
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2875040 - 08/24/17 07:18 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
scales Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 93
Loc: Daphne, AL
Excellent! That's what I was hoping. And yes, Sweetwater is a company I've used on and off for years. Excellent customer service and great financing. Thanks so much for answering my inquiries. I feel much better and confident

Top
#2875042 - 08/24/17 07:27 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: scales]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Amazing overview and feedback on the Grandstage, Ben.
I guess we can say as expected it's not the final word in stage pianos.
Quite limited in editability of the sounds, although it has many good ones.
And the RH3 isn't the worst or the best action for pianists that need a digital/portable stage piano.
That said, nothing replaces sitting down to play itself to see if the Grandstage checks off one's personal boxes and resonates as an instrument on a personal level.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2875346 - 08/26/17 09:25 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
ProfD Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 9235
Loc: Wash DC Area
First, I want to add my thanks to Ben for taking the time to give us an excellent hands-on review of the GrandStage. thu

Now, to the business. Yesterday, I had a chance to lay hands on the GrandStage.

To me, the GrandStage feels and sounds like a digital piano version of a Kronos. That isn't a knock at all.

The Kronos is an excellent synth/workstation. The GrandStage is a nice digital piano. I would prefer the GrandStage over the RD-2000.

However, IMO, neither the Kronos nor the GrandStage has the FTEC (Finger to ear connection) that I have found with the Korg SV-1.

If I had to choose between buying the GrandStage and SV-1 today, I'd still prefer the latter.

The SV-1 feels more like an instrument to me. It it is safe. No GAS or Tums required. grin cool
_________________________
PD

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

Top
#2875358 - 08/26/17 10:15 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ProfD]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Still waiting for one to pop up in a shop near me. I wonder if your impression of finger/ear connection is related to the SV-1 being a ROMpler and the Grandstage being a Linux PC and if there is in fact a 10ms (give or take) delay depending on which of the engines is being used? If that were the case, then the Kronos might exhibit the same (unless they have more robust hardware in the Kronos (since it is capable of so much more).
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2875370 - 08/26/17 11:56 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Finger-to-ear is a mystery, I doubt there's a universal answer, but latency could at least be part of it. It would be interesting to MIDI an SV1 to a Grandstage (or a Kronos, for that matter), and simultaneously record the audio from the SV1 along with the MIDI-triggered audio from the other, and see if there was a noticeable difference in time between the two. (And if you wanted to eliminate even the difference between the MIDI and the direct triggering, you could set the SV1 for Local Off, and go MIDI Out to a Thru box, and send the identical MIDI to the SV1 and the GS/Kronos simultaneously; or even just send a MIDI sequence to both simultaneously.)
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2875373 - 08/26/17 12:05 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
ProfD Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 9235
Loc: Wash DC Area
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I wonder if your impression of finger/ear connection is related to...the Grandstage being a Linux PC and if there is in fact a 10ms (give or take) delay...

Yep. I believe the "computer" has something to do with the difference between playing the SV-1 and Kronos/GrandStage. cool
_________________________
PD

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

Top
#2875388 - 08/26/17 01:34 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ProfD]
burningbusch Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7609
Loc: Ghost Planet
Until someone opens up the GS we don't know for a fact that it's running a general purpose CPU. I think it's also wrong to assume an ASIC-based keyboard is going to have inherently less latency than something like the Kronos. I have played several ASIC-based keyboards with very laggy interfaces. They are clearly underpowered. Why should I believe these have plenty of power when it comes to sound generation. I have also played several ASIC-based keyboards that would consistently lag in high polyphony situations and others that lagged when driven by their own internal sequencers. In these instances, the latency is widely apparent and inconsistent.

The first time I expressed the idea of an exemplary finger-to-ear connection was with the Yamaha CP-1 and later the CP-5. But that was with a few of the AP sounds. I think it has more to do specific players' connection with the keyboard and the responsiveness of the sound. I feel this more commonly with modeled products like Pianoteq. I also generally don't find it with products that only allow linear velocity response (I need it to be exponential in the upper velocities).

I think the whole finger-to-ear thing is highly subjective. Not everyone connects with the Yamaha CPs and others seem to connect with Nords, while I never really have.

Busch.

Top
#2875394 - 08/26/17 01:45 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Sure, so its still instrument specific as far as latency and latency under heavy lifting (ie. layers, fx and high poly situations).
Then there's the way the programming of the sound behaves with input from the action and under various velocity curves. Although this looks highly tweakable on the Grandstage.
I'd be surprised however if Korg compiled the 9 engines from the Kronos to run on yet a different processor family. Although, there was an Oasys PCI at one point. Is it also possible that the sounds in the Grandstage are just sampled from the Kronos engines?
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2875397 - 08/26/17 02:06 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I'd be surprised however if Korg compiled the 9 engines from the Kronos to run on yet a different processor family.

I suppose it could be configured to run on any processor that can run linux (and has sufficient capabilities/horsepower for the tasks at hand).

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Is it also possible that the sounds in the Grandstage are just sampled from the Kronos engines?

I don't think so, they're specifically referring to them as separate engines. As opposed to the Krome, for example, where they say the piano has been "derived" from the Kronos, which presumably means that it is sampled from the Kronos, as they make no claim of the Krome having the SGX1 engine.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2875527 - 08/27/17 06:21 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
scales Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 93
Loc: Daphne, AL
As Spock would say, fascinating. I need to locate an SV-1 and test this finger to ear theory. Never really gave that sort of thing much thought. The last time I played an SV-1 was 6 years ago and I liked it a lot

Top
#2875556 - 08/28/17 01:56 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: scales]
niacin Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 11/21/04
Posts: 1280
Loc: down under
The finger-sound connection in the SV-1 is great on the EPs. The sounds are really expressive and the control over tone is really great, and yeh this has something to do with the fx and the tube. APs not so much. I don't think it has anything to do with any sort of delay in the sound triggering. Imho, ymmv.
_________________________
Hammond SK2, HX3 (for blues gigs), Korg Kronos 73, Line6 L3T, Yamaha DBR-10

Top
#2875567 - 08/28/17 04:50 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: niacin]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: niacin
The finger-sound connection in the SV-1 is great on the EPs. The sounds are really expressive and the control over tone is really great, and yeh this has something to do with the fx and the tube. APs not so much. I don't think it has anything to do with any sort of delay in the sound triggering. Imho, ymmv.

Good point about the FTE being particularly noteworthy with the EPs. In general, there are probably numerous things that contribute to this phenomenon. On the SV1, I you may be right about the tube contributing, as the related tonal changes are analog and therefore possibly more "true" than a similar effect being calculated through an algorithm designed to emulate what would happen through a genuine analog circuit. But if overdrive is turned off, I think the FTE connection is still there. The sound may still be going through the tube, but even if it is, I'm not sure it has an audible effect, if it is essentially not being "driven." But I am still vague about exactly how the tube it is implemented and how much it matters in different circumstances. But yeah, I can see where it could be a factor.

I think that possibly much of the EP FTE connection may be coming from the implementation of the mechanical noises... the realism, and that they happen in the "right place" in the key travel.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2875577 - 08/28/17 05:40 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
ProfD Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/06
Posts: 9235
Loc: Wash DC Area
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: niacin
The finger-sound connection in the SV-1 is great on the EPs. The sounds are really expressive and the control over tone is really great...

Good point about the FTE being particularly noteworthy with the EPs. In general, there are probably numerous things that contribute to this phenomenon. On the SV1, I you may be right about the tube contributing, as the related tonal changes are analog and therefore possibly more "true" than a similar effect being calculated through an algorithm designed to emulate what would happen through a genuine analog circuit. But if overdrive is turned off, I think the FTE connection is still there.

IMO, the SV-1 FTEC is there with and without the tube.

I don't know if it has anything to do with how the sounds were sampled/modeled or the chip inside or both but it works and the SV-1 feels like an instrument.

To those in the market for or considering a digital piano, definitely take the time to play the Korg GrandStage especially if you're already a fan of the Kronos sound.

If I were buying a digital piano, I'd definitely cop the GrandStage instead of the Roland RD-2000.

The RD is deeper in terms of programmability, splits and layers but IMO, the FTEC on the GrandStage is better.

Thankfully, I'm not in the market for another KB. I'm perfectly fine with my SV-1 and Roland System 8 combo. smile

Considering the gear choices we have nowadays, these are great times my fellow KB players. thu cool
_________________________
PD

"The greatest thing you'll ever learn, is just to love and be loved in return."--E. Ahbez "Nature Boy"

Top
#2876040 - 08/30/17 06:40 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ProfD]
Bif_ Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/16/09
Posts: 1241
Loc: Indiana
Originally Posted By: ProfD


To those in the market for or considering a digital piano, definitely take the time to play the Korg GrandStage especially if you're already a fan of the Kronos sound.

If I were buying a digital piano, I'd definitely cop the GrandStage instead of the Roland RD-2000.

The RD is deeper in terms of programmability, splits and layers but IMO, the FTEC on the GrandStage is better.


Just so happens I was in Memphis today and was able to play a Grandstage and RD2000 side by side. (Disclaimer:I've never liked Roland's digital acoustic piano sound. It seems boxy to me in the midrange.)

I agree with Prof's comments. The RD is a fine instrument with a lot of capability.

The Grandstage sounds wonderful. The layout is simple, and doing things (like layering) is easy. Easy to balance the sounds in a layer. Easy to add effects. There's lots of variety in acoustic and EP's and they are all wonderful. One other thing the Grandstage has is patch remain. Notes don't cut off when changing sounds. That's a big feature to me.

Yeah, I'd pick the Grandstage.
_________________________
Kurzweil PC3X, Yamaha Motif ES7, Muse Receptor 2 Pro Max, Neo Ventilator

Top
#2877303 - 09/05/17 06:32 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Bif_]
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5527
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
I was able to play both the RD-2000 and Granstage next to each other today in Pasadena. I didn't want to take my Senn 650s out so I brought my older AKG 240s.

If I had to choose between the two for playing straight ahead jazz, in addiction to just playing at home through phones for practice or fun - I'd pick the Roland. It just feels and sounds closer to an acoustic experience..

This was my first go with the Roland since my initial 20 minute play at NAMM. I like it as much as my first impressions and probably even a little bit more. Again as initially, my preference went to the updated V-Piano sample over the other super-natural pianos that were in the RD-800. Those still give me the feeling of playing a stage piano with a blanket over the speakers. The updated Roland action did help matters over the RD800 with regard to response but not enough where I would play a gig with those pianos.

The Korg - I was pleasantly surprised. Night and Day better then the SV1 and I actually preferred it to a Kronos 2 88 they had out. Good sustain, especially on Ballads. An area I've always felt, historically, to be a Korg piano weakness. It had an even sound up and down and might have been just a tad quicker, or more agile, on the single note jazz lines.

Although for more floaty, ECMish, straight eighth feels , the Roland definitely had more of an organic feeling of space to the sound, as well as just an overall vibe to it for that style. Being more specific, think "Falling Grace", "Moon & Sand", or "Gentle Rain" type of tunes. I hear it as having a more lush and complex sound for chords. Especially double thirds and fourths...it sounded fuller then the Korg for those kind of piano devices.

The Grandstage had a more biting quality that would be good for more aggressive , uptempo stuff. Especially if the styles were more electric, fusiony type contexts. I did notice I was playing more notes on the Korg over the Roland. Not particularly a bad thing - as long as they are the right notes. smile

If I were playing mostly RnB, funk , Blues or rock - the Korg would be my choice. And for acoustic style jazz , again the Roland.

Basically though, I feel I could play a serious blowing gig on either one. Although out on a gig , through my speakers and pre/Di , I'd have to see if I'd still feel as excited about either one with bass & drums. I know the CP4 works. Rolands - there's always that unknown with them. In the past when I've been certain they would sound good out live, they simply didn't.

And the acid test of-- can either sound as good in mono, coming through the infamous Roland KC-550, as my CP4 does ? wink
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5

Top
#2877411 - 09/06/17 09:09 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Dave Ferris]
Legatoboy Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 3595
Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
"there's always that unknown with them (Rolands). In the past when I've been certain they would sound good out live, they simply didn't."

Amen!
_________________________
Where words fail, music speaks volumes

Top
#2877624 - 09/07/17 06:47 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Legatoboy]
TomKittel Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 459
Can the drawbars of the CX3 tonewheel engine in the Grandstage be moved with Midi controllers? I glanced through the manual but no information. Does anyone know?

Top
#2877629 - 09/07/17 07:19 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: TomKittel]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: TomKittel
Can the drawbars of the CX3 tonewheel engine in the Grandstage be moved with Midi controllers? I glanced through the manual but no information. Does anyone know?

Based only on the manual, the answer would be no. The MIDI implementation chart shows no CC controls for this function, and there is no sysex implementation.
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2877649 - 09/07/17 08:14 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Yeah that's unfortunate. Maybe thinking the other way, a SL88 or cheap 88k stage piano like a Casio PX-160 can midi to the Vox Continental and use its sounds.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2877652 - 09/07/17 08:32 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Maybe thinking the other way, a SL88 or cheap 88k stage piano like a Casio PX-160 can midi to the Vox Continental and use its sounds.

I'm sure you could do that, so you could play the Vox's pianos/EPs from a weighted action... but unless the Grandstage has some kind of multitimbral MIDI implementation, the external controller would only mirror the board's own keys (i.e. you wouldn't be able to play a GS piano from an external board while playing an organ or other sound on the Vox's own keys).
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2877663 - 09/07/17 09:50 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5377
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Right. Bugger. So, simplicity of use and lower price point on trickle down Kronos boards sheds considerable flexibility and features. Good job, Korg on avoiding cannibalization of your Kronos sales.
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

Top
#2878126 - 09/09/17 10:47 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Dave Ferris]
RogerL Offline
Member

Registered: 09/05/14
Posts: 7
Loc: California
Hi Dave

I like many others really follow your reviews. I was curious how the action of the Korg GS felt to you? Did it feel close to a real piano? Some have commented that it is on the light side. How does the action and feel compare with the Roland and the CP4 (Which I currently own but am looking at the GS)

Thanks for any thoughts

Top
#2878145 - 09/09/17 01:10 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: RogerL]
scales Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 93
Loc: Daphne, AL
Dave,
Ditto on the thanks! Unfortunately for us who live in small cities will not have the chance to demo these terrific boards due to internet sales. While you're sharing your thoughts, have you had a chance to A/B the Grandstage with the NP-3? I'm probably going to purchase one of those two. The Rolands always feel spongy to me.

Top
#2878154 - 09/09/17 01:48 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: scales]
scales Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 93
Loc: Daphne, AL
Dave,
Another I wish I could get my hands on is the Dexibell S7. The demos sound great but there's not much in the way of user reviews. Have you had a chance to demo the Dexibell. When you're done checks in the mail lol

Top
#2878221 - 09/10/17 03:18 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: RogerL]
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5527
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: RogerL
I was curious how the action of the Korg GS felt to you? Did it feel close to a real piano? Some have commented that it is on the light side. How does the action and feel compare with the Roland and the CP4 (Which I currently own but am looking at the GS)


Hey guys. Again I liked the Grand Stage action. No, like any DP, Avant Grand aside, it doesn't come close to feeling like an acoustic. I wouldn't call the Korg action light. My CP5 is light and fwiw I do prefer the player connection on it to the GS.

Unless you are playing out in a band and don't dig the "other sounds" of the CP4, I really don't feel the GS is a step up. Especially for home use and jazz.

Still, without a doubt it's the nicest playing AP oriented stage piano Korg has come up with imo….and I'm certain it will be very popular. I know this sounds like a broken record but I just prefer the CP4 for what I do.

Also again, I dug the Roland more, playing them side by side. If I had to choose a home digital piano, aside from the Avant Grand, the RD-2000 would be it. I don't think it's "better" then the CP4 but different in its own way.

Originally Posted By: scales
While you're sharing your thoughts, have you had a chance to A/B the Grandstage with the NP-3? I'm probably going to purchase one of those two. The Rolands always feel spongy to me.


I haven't. It was back in Feb. when I last played the NP3 at a private home, where the guy is a Nord dealer. Just going on memory, I think I like the Korg better. Pretty certain it was a faster response, action wise, for single note jazz lines then the Fatar. Unfortunately, this NP3 didn't have the Royal Grand loaded onto it. So I still haven't played the NP3 with what sounds to be their best "jazz" sample.

Also, I would be very leery to purchase one at such a high price tag with the current action noise/clicking problems they still seem to be having. Even at this late of a date into production. Witness Ben Allen, who posted here, having gone through three from Sweetwater and all exhibited this problem. I think at this point you'd have to be the ultimate Nord fan and optimist to take a leap of faith on one.

Now that the Grand Stage has come onto the scene, I'd actually rate the NP3 fourth behind the Korg then the Roland and the CP4.

There's always been something I didn't like about Roland pianos as well - it was either the sound , the action, or they didn't cut through live (I haven't used this live obviously but I have a good feeling about it) or something. But I feel the RD-2000 is different and really a step forward for them.

Still at 48 lbs., it's not that good and certainly isn't head and shoulders above the CP4 to make me want to consider schlepping one for a gig. Again, for home or studio use, it's a different story.

I've haven't played the Dexibell outside of about 15 seconds at NAMM. I don't even remember the model. It was noisy and crowded at their booth. There was one vacant and I just played it briefly. It struck me initially has just another unspectacular DP. Probably not a fair assessment considering the conditions so take that fwiw of course. smile
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5

Top
#2878257 - 09/10/17 11:50 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Dave Ferris]
scales Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 93
Loc: Daphne, AL
A million thanks Dave! You are really good at articulating that which really matters. I do know of a store close by that has an Roland RD 2000. I'll check it out.

Top
#2878324 - 09/10/17 11:06 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: scales]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I agree with Dave 100%, though I would say I rate the NP3 action above that of the Grandstage. The NP3 is faster and more responsive by virtue of the fact that it has triple sensors, whereas the Korg has double sensors. I still think the CP4 is the best stage piano you can get for feel and piano sounds, though I do prefer the Grandstage sound variety with all its different pianos. I had 4 (yes FOUR) Nord Piano 3s and I cannot recommend one based on my experience, though if you could get a good one, it would be a fantastic machine. I tried... HARD. As far as feel and sound combos go, the CP4 is still the best overall stage piano in my option, like I said, I have a Grandstage, and I miss the CP4. I planned on getting another one, but I just lost my job within Apple- so any purchases are on freeze for a good long while for me.

Cheers.

Ben


Edited by Macsaint777 (09/10/17 11:07 PM)
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2878326 - 09/11/17 12:17 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
TomKittel Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 459
I can't find any information on the Grandstage piano stand M-SV which is part of the Grandstage package. Is it easy to transport and setup? It seems to be tailored to fit the GS88. Can it be shortened to fit the GS73 or is there a big overhang if used with the smaller keyboard?

I already own quite a few keyboard stands. I don't like the fact that Korg forces GS buyers to buy one more stand extra. Mind you, if bought separately the M-SV costs about 350 bucks. Pure waste if you already own keyboard stands you're happy with!

Another drawback for me is the omission of Midi remote control for the CX3 drawbars. What the heck are product managers thinking these days? Just wondering. At the end of the day I am happy that Korg is helping me to keep my GAS under control ;-)





Top
#2878332 - 09/11/17 02:40 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: TomKittel]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 54
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Very easy. I'll be glad to scan and upload the full English version of the stand paper it comes with for you. I will say the one that comes with the GS88 is almost too narrow. It is quite sturdy overall if you place the keyboard in such a way that the rubber feet actually rest on the metal of the middle stand piece, otherwise, it bounces a bit too much for me. I much prefer my K&M Omega with stackers.


Edited by Macsaint777 (09/11/17 02:41 AM)
_________________________
Nord Electro 5D 73, Korg Grandstage 88, Lots of plugins, MacBook Pro 2016 TouchBar, Focusrite Clarett 8Pre, Grace Design M920, QSC K 12s, Focal CMS 65s.

Top
#2878349 - 09/11/17 05:38 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: TomKittel]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 11218
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
The NP3 is faster and more responsive by virtue of the fact that it has triple sensors,

It is doubtful that much of the difference is due to the third sensor. That comes into play only in very specific instances (basically when *softly* re-striking a key, or when playing trills).

Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
As far as feel and sound combos go, the CP4 is still the best overall stage piano in my option, like I said, I have a Grandstage, and I miss the CP4.

Why did you ditch the CP4 in the first place?

Originally Posted By: TomKittel
Another drawback for me is the omission of Midi remote control for the CX3 drawbars. What the heck are product managers thinking these days?

It could be one of intentionally reducing overlap between the GS and the Vox Continental,. Then again, lots of boards have odd limitations for no obvious reason, so who knows for sure...
_________________________
Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our new video at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out!

Top
#2878360 - 09/11/17 06:51 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
TomKittel Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 459
Originally Posted By: TomKittel
Another drawback for me is the omission of Midi remote control for the CX3 drawbars. What the heck are product managers thinking these days?

Quote:
It could be one of intentionally reducing overlap between the GS and the Vox Continental,. Then again, lots of boards have odd limitations for no obvious reason, so who knows for sure...


No.1 in the odd limitations / lack of updates game used to be Roland for many years. Hope Korg is not makin up in this matter.

Top
#2878363 - 09/11/17 06:58 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
TomKittel Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 459
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
Very easy. I'll be glad to scan and upload the full English version of the stand paper it comes with for you.


That would be awesome. Thanks!

Top
#2878424 - 09/11/17 12:31 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Dave Ferris]
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5527
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: scales
While you're sharing your thoughts, have you had a chance to A/B the Grandstage with the NP-3?


Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
I haven't. It was back in Feb. when I last played the NP3 at a private home, where the guy is a Nord dealer. Just going on memory, I think I like the Korg better. Pretty certain it was a faster response, action wise, for single note jazz lines then the Fatar. Unfortunately, this NP3 didn't have the Royal Grand loaded onto it. So I still haven't played the NP3 with what sounds to be their best "jazz" sample.

Now that the Grand Stage has come onto the scene, I'd actually rate the NP3 fourth behind the Korg then the Roland and the CP4


Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
I agree with Dave 100%, though I would say I rate the NP3 action above that of the Grandstage. The NP3 is faster and more responsive by virtue of the fact that it has triple sensors, whereas the Korg has double sensors.

I had 4 (yes FOUR) Nord Piano 3s and I cannot recommend one based on my experience,


Again I wasn't able to play both the Grand Stage and NP3 side by side- there has been a six month gap in playing the Nord. So I was going on memory from touch and sound. So actually a pretty long interval in between playing.

I will say my observations on the GS being a faster response action - for Jazz in particular- might be based on the fact that the Korg piano was more even in the higher registers then the Italian Grand on the NP3. I have the tonal characteristics, and where it thinned out, of that piano embedded into my mind from using it since it's release.

So basically just the fact I felt my lines were more even and coming out more clearly gave me the illusion that the Korg action is more responsive. Again, those pianos really have a nice bite to them which would sound great in a louder more aggressive jazz context.

To repeat, this particular NP3 didn't have the new Royal Grand loaded into it. Which from the reviews, seems to have addressed the unevenness in the higher registers on single note soloing lines.

I had forgotten you had not three NP3s but FOUR. All I can say to that is .... facepalm

And sorry to hear about your job at Apple, I hope you find something soon. smile


Edited by Dave Ferris (09/11/17 12:44 PM)
Edit Reason: added thought
_________________________
https://soundcloud.com/dave-ferris

2005 NY Steinway D
Yamaha CP4, CP5

Top
Page 1 of 7 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 >


Moderator:  Dave Bryce, Stephen Fortner