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#2869712 - 07/28/17 05:53 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ProfD]
scales Offline
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Registered: 05/29/10
Posts: 83
Loc: Daphne, AL
I'm looking at the Grandstage as a dedicated DP as well, maybe NP-3. As far as Montage is concerned, way too heavy for a lot of gigging unless you have a super back or roadies to help. But I do have one in my studio. I get the whole EDM critique although I'm in no way engaged in that genre. I will say that after a year with the Montage it is quite the synth. It has taken some time for me to learn how to mix/match FM with AMW and not sound like the 80's. Time & Patience has been rewarding in terms of creativity. I also have a Kronos 61. The two compliment each other quite nicely. As far as actions, it feels very similar to the CP-4. I suppose I'm in the minority as I love the piano (sample)/ keys connection. I'm particularly fond of the CFX sample.

Like many of you I'm looking forward to getting my hands on the GS and/also NP-3 if I could find one. The key clicking thing scares me. I do like RH3 and truly believe the GS will be a killer gigging board.

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#2869727 - 07/28/17 10:08 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: scales]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 45
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Please do NOT feel obligated to watch this.. but this chronicles my recent journey through keyboard hades... from the RD-2000, to the Nord Piano 3, and now to the Kronos (which arrives Tuesday).



It is almost funny... except, it happened to me.


https://youtu.be/u2n4HQR4MaA


Cheers!


Ben


Edited by Macsaint777 (07/28/17 10:09 PM)
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#2869785 - 07/29/17 01:11 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: scales]
davedoerfler Offline
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Registered: 12/27/12
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from our friends at Reverb, I hope someone finds this helpful

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#2869803 - 07/29/17 06:17 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: davedoerfler]
Macsaint777 Offline
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Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 45
Loc: North Carolina, USA
That is one of the better videos! Ironically, it is drenched in well... REVERB!
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#2870911 - 08/04/17 02:01 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
Macsaint777 Offline
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Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 45
Loc: North Carolina, USA
The Grandstage is now in stock at Sweetwater (just ordered one) and Kraft.
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#2870915 - 08/04/17 02:05 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Oooo, that's interesting. After messing with everything else lately - curious how you compare it to CP4, NP3, RD2000.
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#2870920 - 08/04/17 02:20 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 45
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I'll let you know! I have a Kronos 2 73 right now, but alas it has a problem with one of the keys (verified by video sent to Sweetwater)... so the saga continues.. I LOVE the Kronos, killer machine, awesome awesome power. I unfortunately bought the Epic Grand piano pack and now I have no keyboard to use it in.. don't think refunds are available for that. Sending the Kronos 2 73 back, getting the Grandstage shipped. Will do a video on its sounds and write a review here as well, as soon as possible.
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#2870925 - 08/04/17 02:25 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 4967
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Your run of luck on actions delivered to your door in working order is abysmal. frown
So we're wondering if the RH3 plays any better without the after touch strip.

Have you tried the Forte 7? Or MP7?
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#2870936 - 08/04/17 03:04 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Macsaint777 Offline
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Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 45
Loc: North Carolina, USA
I agree, and in this case, I think it is probably more important to choose a dealer who will stand behind you no matter what, than it is to pick a specific make of keyboard. Nord, Roland, Korg, they are all subject to action issues. At this point, I'm not even upset about it. I'm just resigned, we will see how the Grandstage goes!

I have not tried a Forte 7 or MP7 series, but I've had problems with Kurzweil in the past, and just never had enough courage to try a Kawai, given the quality issues I've read about. Then again, at this point, I think it is a bit of a crapshoot no matter what!
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#2871351 - 08/07/17 04:14 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 45
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Sent my Kronos 2 73 back this morning, and the Grandstage 88 will arrive Wednesday. Stay tuned! Seeing as how not a single non-Korg/dealer video is out on this thing, I am planning to do a full review and demo of all sounds.



Edited by Macsaint777 (08/08/17 12:27 AM)
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#2871794 - 08/09/17 08:27 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
burningbusch Offline
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Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7444
Loc: Ghost Planet
This is coming from an unabashed Korg fan, so...

I played a GS at a local shop (American Music Seattle). Was pleasantly impressed with it. The overall feel is very solid but it's light in weight. Startup time is 40 seconds.

Most of the acoustic pianos are what we're familiar with on the Kronos, but I did like the new grand and upright, certainly some of the best Korg has done to date. I liked how the EP-1 Rhodes was dialed in. It sounded different than what I'm used to on the Kronos. The new clavinet samples sounded good, though I didn't notice any release samples. The German EP (assume Hohner Pianet of some sort) sounded more T than N. The new Vox and Farfisa sounded great. I really liked the Vox. These combined with the CX-3 makes organs an area with the GS stands apart from other stage pianos with their largely mediocre organs.

I was surprised by the number of string and brass sounds. Plenty from which to choose. And then the pads, synth leads and basses plus gtr and ele basses. Really a nice cross section of sounds. I don't know that I'd call it the "best of the Kronos" but still good quality stuff for the most part.

The DYNAMICS control seems to act as more of a velocity curve adjustment rather than a compressor. I liked it dialed back to maybe 11:00.

For people who view these stage pianos through the acoustic piano lens primarily with the other sounds a distant second, there are many other options which is good as there are strong preferences related to how these digital piano recreations are supposed to sound. But, the engines do make a difference and it's clear once you start going through the organs, the more extensively sampled instruments and the AL-1 sounds, that the GS is very strong across a broad range of sounds.

Busch.

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#2871811 - 08/09/17 09:33 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 4967
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Helpful perspective, Busch. Without digging in the manual, what aspects of the piano sounds did you immediately have access to to tweak at a gig?
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#2871828 - 08/09/17 10:24 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
burningbusch Offline
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Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7444
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Helpful perspective, Busch. Without digging in the manual, what aspects of the piano sounds did you immediately have access to to tweak at a gig?


Not knowing how the two switches and wheels were assigned, I mainly just went through the variations (normal, mono, dark, etc.) and then used the Dynamics control and EQ. Very basic stuff here, especially for someone used to doing a lot of tweaking.

Busch.

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#2871837 - 08/09/17 10:44 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5449
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Your impressions are always held in the highest regard Bill. Thanks.

In spite of my initial misgivings on the GS, I'd certainly like to play one .

I did dig my two SV-1 88s I owned. Just not the APs or the action problems on the second one.
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#2871840 - 08/09/17 10:49 AM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
zephonic Offline
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Registered: 10/06/05
Posts: 3539
Loc: Redondo Beach, CA
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
I liked how the EP-1 Rhodes was dialed in. It sounded different than what I'm used to on the Kronos.


The EP presets on the Kronos are some of my favorites, particularly the'Butterfly' and 'GeorgeDuke' preset. Are those not present on the Grandstage? That would be a pity, I could be play those presets for days.
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#2872139 - 08/10/17 03:38 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: zephonic]
Macsaint777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 45
Loc: North Carolina, USA
My Grandstage arrived today, and I am really enjoying it! Plays better than an SV-1 or a Kronos! Well built, though the reviewers saying it has a sturdy wooden bottom, need to remember that MDF is not wood. Working on a video review, but for now, here are all the Acoustic Piano sounds if anyone is interested. Oh.. and miracle of miracles... not a single problem with the action! The stand is quite nice too, very easily disassembled, and sturdier than I expected.

https://youtu.be/_TqDAZdTW1Q


Edited by Macsaint777 (08/10/17 03:39 PM)
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#2872153 - 08/10/17 04:15 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 10737
Wow, after all you've been through, I wouldn't have guessed the GrandStage would get the gold star! Nothing against Korg (I have a Kronos and an SV1, among other Korgs), but they are rarely mentioned as anyone's top choice for either action or piano sound (a lot of people like them, but few rank them as best in these areas). Though this is a combination we haven't seen before... their latest piano tech, mated to the current RH3 without aftertouch.
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#2872164 - 08/10/17 04:49 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 4967
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Could they be using a particle board base? Very possible given the 44.09lbs.
Can you comment on action compared to NP3 and RD-2000 and any others that are fresh in your memory? Key travel seem right/length of drop? Returns to position quickly enough? Path is clean and smooth, no excessive wabble? Impact seem natural, no tiring in wrist or or forearm when using piano technique? Are you dialing in the expression knob or using default?

I'm not thrilled generally about the previous RH3s I've played, like on the Kronos 8 but it did do pretty well on EP sounds in the SV-1. But I dislike the APs on the SV-1 so much it's hard to tell which is more to blame - the action or the piano sample/engine.

I'm intrigued, the variety of pianos is quite nice. Your YouTube is giving me the impression this is what it really sounds like with no messing about. Must find one on a shop floor... would I be happy with the 73k? The weight is right. I can do 37.48lbs no problem.

I wonder when the PX-5S successor is coming... will Kawai get weight down on their next MP? Enquiring minds want to know!
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#2872165 - 08/10/17 05:01 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
16251 Offline
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Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 2567
I can't get past the acoustic piano sound. Too ________ . I've been following Korg since I owned a SGD1 and liked that piano. Great presentation 777.
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#2872168 - 08/10/17 05:13 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: 16251]
rickzjamm Offline
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Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 633
Can you tweak the sounds or what you hear is what you get & is there space for imported sounds? I like the weight factor coupled withed the weighted bed.
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#2872170 - 08/10/17 05:20 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: rickzjamm]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 4967
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Apparently you can tweak the pianos with an articulation knob, EQ, and fx like reverb quickly. In that regard this does the job in a live piano setting which is what the Grandstage concept appears to be. For deep editing you want a Kronos.
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#2872179 - 08/10/17 06:17 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
rickzjamm Offline
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Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 633
Probably the KorgKronos2 7, not too much heavier weight wise.
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#2872184 - 08/10/17 06:52 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Dave Ferris]
burningbusch Offline
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Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7444
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Your impressions are always held in the highest regard Bill. Thanks.



Thanks Dave. Right back at you.

Busch.

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#2872189 - 08/10/17 06:55 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
burningbusch Offline
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Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7444
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
My Grandstage arrived today, and I am really enjoying it! Plays better than an SV-1 or a Kronos! Well built, though the reviewers saying it has a sturdy wooden bottom, need to remember that MDF is not wood. Working on a video review, but for now, here are all the Acoustic Piano sounds if anyone is interested. Oh.. and miracle of miracles... not a single problem with the action! The stand is quite nice too, very easily disassembled, and sturdier than I expected.

https://youtu.be/_TqDAZdTW1Q


Great demos of those APs. Thanks for posting.

There's something nice and solid about the GS, how it plays and feels. Maybe they're on rev C of the RH3, I don't know. I do know it felt a lot better than my six-year-old-played-every-day-for-hours Kronos 73.

Busch.

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#2872196 - 08/10/17 07:40 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
rickzjamm Offline
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Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 633
burningbusch aren't they the same keyed action?
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#2872197 - 08/10/17 07:41 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: rickzjamm]
rickzjamm Offline
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Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 633
keybed
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#2872198 - 08/10/17 07:51 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: rickzjamm]
burningbusch Offline
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Registered: 10/22/00
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Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: rickzjamm
burningbusch aren't they the same keyed action?

Technically, yes. But these companies make changes and sometimes distinguish those changes with a different name/rev, but not always. The Kronos has aftertouch; the GS does not. The case is different. There could be other internal differences. I'd be speculating. But my Kronos action is well worn and I suspect playing a new Kronos will feel much tighter, maybe just like the GS. The store I was at doesn't carry the Kronos so I couldn't compare.

Busch.

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#2872208 - 08/10/17 08:32 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: burningbusch]
Macsaint777 Offline
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Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 45
Loc: North Carolina, USA
This is not a full review, I will post that in video form in the next few days, but here are my thoughts thus far, having played a Kronos 2 73 (new) the last week, and now playing the Grandstage 88 all day.

1. Action: Something is DIFFERENT here besides just the missing aftertouch strip. The Grandstage, set without the dynamics knob turned on, and with the same velocity curve I was using on the Kronos 2 73 (number 9, the wide option) responds much better than the Kronos did. There is a feeling of lightness pressing into the keys, and the first few minutes of playing the Grandstage, made me feel like it was going to be too lightly weighted, but within an hour, that wore off and I was really warming up to it. I agree with Busch that Korg is likely using a different revision of the RH3 in the Grandstage. The general impression I get is that the whole keybed is just more solid and tight than the Kronos 2 73 I had for a few days. Again, this is with no adjustments of the dynamics knob. I like the response and feel of the Grandstage better than the Kronos 2 73, and MUCH better than the SV-1 we have at church. Something else that feels slightly different, is the gradation of the different zones. At least to me, it feels like there is a distinct difference in the upper and lower registers, something I didn't really notice on the Kronos. Action compared to the CP4, Nord Piano 3, and RD-2000/800. The CP4 is still the fastest and best to respond to quick movements. The Nord Piano 3 does very well in this regard as well, and the RD-2000, is a better feeling action, but not quite as quick as those two. The Grandstage RH3, while not as solid as the CP4 or Nord Piano 3, is not the typical RH3, and that is a good thing. The key travel seems natural, and even though this is a double sensor action, it responds quite well and is snappy, more so than the Kronos 2 73 I just returned. The RH3 feels smooth, and doesn't bottom out too hard. I don't get any feeling of sponginess or softness from the RH3. I've messed with the dynamics knob, but I tend to leave it basically the same as if it were off.

2. Build Quality: The Grandstage is built very well. The knobs, EQ sliders, pitch and mod wheel, keybed, end cheeks, metal piece under the keys, and the top and back case all feel reassuringly solid and well put together. It isn't an RD-2000 or Nord Piano 3, but it is miles above the CP4 in terms of feeling solid and hefty (in a good way). The knobs on the SV-1 have a wobble that I always hated. Not so the Grandstage. The OLED displays, while small, are bright and clear, and I don't see anyone having a problem with reading them. The KORG logo on the back...I'll turn it off live, no doubt, but it is fun! They have a feature where it flashes in response to your playing, I've been messing around with that. One thing I find odd, is the implantation of the power button. I really like the way the Kronos has the recessed button that flips open and closed. The Grandstage, has the soft button you press one time to turn on, and hold down to turn off. Power up time is 38 seconds on mine, so while they might be using an SSD here, it is much much faster than the Kronos.

3. Sounds: Having the two new pianos (Italian and Upright) is awesome. I wouldn't think "Korg" hearing these two sounds, since they have an attack and overall feel that is not as percussive or fast to decay as the others. They don't give you that "Korgy" piano sound feel. The other sounds, all from the Kronos except the handful of new organs and calvinets/pipe organs, are generally very good. The weak points are the same as those on the Kronos. Brass and reed orchestral instruments, and guitars. Bagpipes are pretty awful too, but I've never seen that done well except on the Jupiter 80!

The editing options for sounds is so limited, I don't know how Korg gets away with calling these "engines"...you can't even adjust the pedal noise, you just have the ability to turn on or off all piano noises. I expected the newest updates to SGX-2 to include sympathetic string resonance, like on the Kronos.. but the Grandstage does NOT have string resonance, though it does had pedal resonance. The CP4 doesn't have string resonance either, but the RD-2000 and Nord Piano 3 both do, so I got used to it. It is possible Korg could add this later with an update, but right now, you get Korgs idea of what the noise level should be on all the pianos, and frankly, it is extremely low. Last bit on the sounds. I'll connect the Grandstage to my Mac and use Omnisphere and a Korg NanoKONTROL 2, so this isn't a huge deal...however, on the Kronos, you can sweep the filter cutoff with knobs, or assign the cutoff to another controller. On the Grandstage, you can get to filter cutoff, but you do so by pressing Edit, and then scrolling through, then you can sweep the filter using the level knob. I really wish I would just assign cutoff to the mod wheel, but this is not possible. Another thing you can't do, is name your edited sounds. Yes, seriously. At present, you are limited to minor adjustments, and then saving the sounds in one of the favorites banks, but your sound will still retain the same name even if you have changed it. I hope an editor becomes available to allow you to at least name your own sounds.


Those are my initial thoughts. Hope that is useful!

Ben
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#2872210 - 08/10/17 08:54 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 10737
Great review!

Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
even though this is a double sensor action, it responds quite well and is snappy

The advantages of a triple sensor (in those boards that have it) are only noticeable in very specific instances. Mostly in gentle note repetitions and trills. Also on legato repeated notes when you're not using the damper pedal. So it's not something most people would notice in a lot of typical playing.
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#2872213 - 08/10/17 09:06 PM Re: Korg Grandstage (Released) [Re: Macsaint777]
burningbusch Offline
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Registered: 10/22/00
Posts: 7444
Loc: Ghost Planet
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777


I expected the newest updates to SGX-2 to include sympathetic string resonance, like on the Kronos.. but the Grandstage does NOT have string resonance, though it does had pedal resonance. The CP4 doesn't have string resonance either, but the RD-2000 and Nord Piano 3 both do, so I got used to it. It is possible Korg could add this later with an update, but right now, you get Korgs idea of what the noise level should be on all the pianos, and frankly, it is extremely low.


Great info Ben. Possibly you've done this, but double check string resonance on all the pianos. I found that when Korg introduced the SGX-2 engine, the SR was more clearly heard on the Berlin vs. German/Japanese/Austrian. Maybe it's there but very quiet on some, or maybe it's not there at all.

Busch.

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