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#2864747 - 07/06/17 05:27 AM Like the look of these...
picker Offline
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#2864782 - 07/06/17 09:50 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: picker]
desertbluesman Offline
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Decent price for a cheapie. I bet with a little TLC you could make a decent instrument out of those.
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#2864785 - 07/06/17 09:56 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: desertbluesman]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Nice! Good price, even for "B Stock" 'blems'. Bet it rocks!
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#2864830 - 07/06/17 02:32 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
whitefang Online   content
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Look pretty good for a beginner on a tight budget, or even someone who's been playing a while and money's funny.

Like that "B" stock SG model. But, I always kinda liked the SG look.
Whitefang
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#2864912 - 07/06/17 10:46 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Can't beat the price if it plays good... cool
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#2864966 - 07/07/17 05:52 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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I've gotta admit, this is tempting:

Blake Wright Guitars Santa Fe - Rustic Sunrise : B STOCK $150

________

Originally Posted By: Blake Wright Guitars
B STOCK NOTICE: These B stocks have one of the following:
-crooked tuners
-finish cracks
-paint inconsistency
All playability is not affected
Pictures available of B Stock upon request


Hell, the 'A-Stock' Santa Fe in "Rustic Sunrise" is only fifteen dollars more at $165! Shipping to my address would be $30...

So, in and out, it'd be $180 for the B-Stock, and $195 for the 'regular', assuming there's no taxes or fees...

Rather tempting...
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#2864995 - 07/07/17 07:03 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Winston Psmith Offline
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I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.
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#2865012 - 07/07/17 07:47 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Winston Psmith]
Fred_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.


Agreed. No interest in this cheap junk.
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#2865113 - 07/07/17 10:46 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Fred_C]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.


Korean made imports (possibly made to order?), some of them "B-Stock", and marked down even more to liquidate ASAP due to a business-retooling, as I understand.

Originally Posted By: Fred_C
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.


Agreed. No interest in this cheap junk.


My interest is in having a cheap 'beater' that may be surprisingly good; very nearly an impulse purchase- IF I go for it- almost a disposable guitar, but not quite. It might be a lot of fun! Sometimes cheap (but not too "junky") can make a plenty good enough bang-around Blues and Rock 'n' Roll axe.

Overall, though, usually, my tastes in guitars are a bit- quite a bit- more discriminating.
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#2865122 - 07/07/17 11:05 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
d Offline
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The thing to me, & I can't explain the economics, which may, in fact, be multifaceted, is that these days ALL MAINSTREAM ELECTICALISED GTRS EVERYWHERE ARE MADE BY CAD & then trimmed/adjusted [damn, how may commas I gotta put it one sentence ?! laugh ].
The frets are all better placed, e.g., than any gtr before 1980.

To me that makes them all equal outside their electronix.
Am I missing something ?
---------------

Of course that applies to electric gtrs.
Acs, uh, axes & ac/elec models have real timbral issues that exist in the real physical world...but really who cares abt that anymore ?
[ poke ]
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#2865197 - 07/07/17 02:13 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: d]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: d
The thing to me, & I can't explain the economics, which may, in fact, be multifaceted, is that these days ALL MAINSTREAM ELECTICALISED GTRS EVERYWHERE ARE MADE BY CAD & then trimmed/adjusted [damn, how may commas I gotta put it one sentence ?! laugh ].
The frets are all better placed, e.g., than any gtr before 1980.

To me that makes them all equal outside their electronix.
Am I missing something ?
---------------

Of course that applies to electric gtrs.
Acs, uh, axes & ac/elec models have real timbral issues that exist in the real physical world...but really who cares abt that anymore ?
[ poke ]


Respectfully, I concede your point, to a point. While affordable Guitars, like upper-end Squiers & Epis or MIM Fenders, are much improved over what they once were, cheap Guitars are still cheaply made. Nobody is running a Plek machine for $99 Guitars, for example, and just because the bodies are cut to measure by machine doesn't mean there's a higher level of QC to go with the high-tech assembly line.

I've read of major issues with the cheaper Epiphone models, for example, (mis-aligned frets, bridges too far too one side for the strings to line up on the neck, headstock breaks in HSC's) and looking in the control cavity of a lower-priced Squier, one of the models that comes in a multi-pack with an Amp, I was amazed at the nasty crack through the center of the body; the trem cover hid it in back, the pick guard in front. Many factories would never have used that piece of wood as a one-piece body, but would have cut it into useable sections for a multi-piece body.

Woods aren't all equal, either, even if they're called by the same names. Epiphone SG's (G400's) and LP's are usually made of "Eastern" Mahogany, or Nato, which isn't related to Mahogany, at all, but I've seen reports that they've been made of Alder, Mahogany, Lauan or God-knows-what, with Maple caps, Maple veneers, or all-"Mahogany", at various times, by various factories. Same with the new, affordable, D'Angelico's that are being advertised everywhere. Turns out they're made of Sapele (sp?), another tropical wood generally used in furniture; not true Mahogany, either.

It may be that these guys are, miraculously, able to sell a quality instrument at a bottom-feeder price. Never having had one of their Guitars in hand, I can't honestly say. I'm not yet willing to risk my money to find out, even though the B-stock SG style appeals to me, as well, even with the missing "T".
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#2865216 - 07/07/17 03:13 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Winston Psmith]
JuJu Kwan Offline
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There was a thread awhile back about what was your first guitar, and I noticed no one mentioned Fender or Gibson. Most of you started out on some really cheap guitar and moved up to better guitars when you could afford to. Without that cheap first guitar you probably wouldn't be playing guitar today. This looks like an affordable entry level electric.
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#2865297 - 07/07/17 11:00 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Larryz Offline
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+1 JuJu, That's why I said you can't beat the price if it plays good. We do need cheap entry level guitars for the new kids in town. Back when us old dudes were kids, there was a common thread in those old threads. And that was, the strings were very high off the neck and the guitars were very tough for us to try and learn on when we were kids. But, we were dedicated and nothing was going to stop us LOL! I think the kids today have an easier time finding an easy to play cheap electric guitar that will fit into their budgets. It may not make a good rock star axe with the cheaper pups, but it will get you started. Gibson and Fender were out of the question as no one could afford to start out on one back in the old days...My buddy had a Fender Mustang by our Sophomore year in High School. I got to play gigs on my Dad's Gibson ES-330 in our 1st band, and used my cheap Japanese Kawai electric guitar for practices... cool
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#2865313 - 07/08/17 03:45 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Online   content
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+1 Larry.

And to stress that another way...

How many guys in here whose first CAR was a Mercedes? Fresh off the line?

Or whose first apartment was a PENTHOUSE? wink
Whitefang
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#2865379 - 07/08/17 09:28 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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thu
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#2865393 - 07/08/17 10:07 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
There was a thread awhile back about what was your first guitar, and I noticed no one mentioned Fender or Gibson. Most of you started out on some really cheap guitar and moved up to better guitars when you could afford to. Without that cheap first guitar you probably wouldn't be playing guitar today. This looks like an affordable entry level electric.


That's a fair point, and we wouldn't even be discussing these Guitars if they didn't look very good for the price.

I have to admit to a certain level of skepticism, however, because I see a lot of inexpensive Guitars offered online, often by companies I've never heard of, at prices that seem unrealistic, like the Guitars in this thread. Too often, the specs seem inflated, as well. In the photo of that B-stock Las Vegas (the SG clone), the Maple top must be an incredibly thin veneer, as it ends where top is contoured? Reminds me of the Foto-Flame Fenders.

B-stock Las Vegas Lava Red

I worked in Music Retail long enough to know that a decent finish can make almost any cheap Guitar look good, particularly in a photo, but that tells me nothing about how it plays, sounds or feels. I couldn't recommend these to anyone just starting out, until I'd played one.
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#2865571 - 07/09/17 06:36 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Winston Psmith]
picker Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.


Maybe they can make money off these instruments because the prices of all guitars, especially the "prestige" brands, are wildly, ridiculously, unbelievably inflated. Perhaps these prices are what guitars ought to cost. I like what Steve Miller said about vintage guitars; "I'm not interested in paying thousands of dollars for something cut out with as band saw."
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#2865590 - 07/09/17 08:06 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: picker]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: picker
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.


Maybe they can make money off these instruments because the prices of all guitars, especially the "prestige" brands, are wildly, ridiculously, unbelievably inflated. Perhaps these prices are what guitars ought to cost.


No argument there, brother. Looking at some of the new Gibson prices, I have to wonder who's paying nearly $5000 for an SG, and why?
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#2865598 - 07/09/17 09:04 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Winston Psmith]
Fred_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Originally Posted By: picker
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.


Maybe they can make money off these instruments because the prices of all guitars, especially the "prestige" brands, are wildly, ridiculously, unbelievably inflated. Perhaps these prices are what guitars ought to cost.


No argument there, brother. Looking at some of the new Gibson prices, I have to wonder who's paying nearly $5000 for an SG, and why?


I agree that guitars are ridiculously overpriced. I remember what a good quality instrument cost in the '60's and am amazed when I see prices on used guitars that are higher than the instrument was brand new.

This is why I am so impressed with instruments from companies like Peerless and Eastman which manufacture very high quality guitars for what are today, very reasonable prices. "Reasonable" does not necessarily equate with "cheap". There is a level of quality that I expect and I am not willing to settle for less. I'm guessing that at today's prices, this translates into about a $1,000 price point.

With regard to the guitars currently being discussed, someone who doesn't mind pissing away $150-175 should buy one and evaluate the level of quality.
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#2865612 - 07/09/17 11:01 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Winston Psmith]
d Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 5765
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
[No editing streamlining to clear the ground around points]
--------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Originally Posted By: d
The thing to me, & I can't explain the economics, which may, in fact, be multifaceted, is that these days ALL MAINSTREAM ELECTICALISED GTRS EVERYWHERE ARE MADE BY CAD & then trimmed/adjusted [damn, how may commas I gotta put it one sentence ?! laugh ].
The frets are all better placed, e.g., than any gtr before 1980.

To me that makes them all equal outside their electronix.
Am I missing something ?
---------------

Of course that applies to electric gtrs.
Acs, uh, axes & ac/elec models have real timbral issues that exist in the real physical world...but really who cares abt that anymore ?
[ poke ]

------------------------------------------------------
Respectfully, I concede your point, to a point.[*]
While affordable Guitars, like upper-end Squiers & Epis or MIM Fenders, are much improved over what they once were, cheap Guitars are still cheaply made. Nobody is running a Plek machine for $99 Guitars, for example, and just because the bodies are cut to measure by machine doesn't mean there's a higher level of QC to go with the high-tech assembly line.

I've read of major issues with the cheaper Epiphone models, for example, (mis-aligned frets, bridges too far too one side for the strings to line up on the neck, headstock breaks in HSC's) and looking in the control cavity of a lower-priced Squier, one of the models that comes in a multi-pack with an Amp, I was amazed at the nasty crack through the center of the body; the trem cover hid it in back, the pick guard in front. Many factories would never have used that piece of wood as a one-piece body, but would have cut it into useable sections for a multi-piece body.


Ok, but alla those, save the body crack prob, woulda been evident to any potential buyer, eh ?
Woulda gone back to the factory in whatever the process is these days.
The fact that they got by the sleepers in the QC booth is bad .
Maybe they don't even look at some low end models.
idk

All I know is I've never had a prob w/ a modern electric gtr that I actually bought other than replacing the PUs, etc, which I almost always did anyway on any old gtr.
That plus the fact that prices for older gtrs don't seem anything like what the were once, has made me give up on any idea of a $300 "Holy Grail" waiting for me on the wall.

The next is a more pertinent point but also one that, I think, applies more to acs than elecs (more below)...
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Woods aren't all equal, either, even if they're called by the same names. Epiphone SG's (G400's) and LP's are usually made of "Eastern" Mahogany, or Nato, which isn't related to Mahogany, at all, but I've seen reports that they've been made of Alder, Mahogany, Lauan or God-knows-what, with Maple caps, Maple veneers, or all-"Mahogany", at various times, by various factories. Same with the new, affordable, D'Angelico's that are being advertised everywhere. Turns out they're made of Sapele (sp?), another tropical wood generally used in furniture; not true Mahogany, either.

It may be that these guys are, miraculously, able to sell a quality instrument at a bottom-feeder price. Never having had one of their Guitars in hand, I can't honestly say. I'm not yet willing to risk my money to find out, even though the B-stock SG style appeals to me, as well, even with the missing "T".


Here's what I do when evaluating a gtr.
I don't read anything abt it (since I don't look for newly designed models) or buy anything over the Net.
I pick the gtr up & play it in several specific ways.
If it seems lacking in intonation probs I ask to borrow it to hear it through some gear I know.
Since, for the most part, I'm already planning to alter it, the less expensive, the better, if the basic structure works.

Of course, that's just me.
I'm not looking for something new from the gtr, only from the gear through which it's playe.
------------------------------
[*] That should be = "I concede yer point, uh, to a point" laugh ]

-----------------------------------
------------------------------------
In a separate area....
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Originally Posted By: picker
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.


Maybe they can make money off these instruments because the prices of all guitars, especially the "prestige" brands, are wildly, ridiculously, unbelievably inflated. Perhaps these prices are what guitars ought to cost.


No argument there, brother. Looking at some of the new Gibson prices, I have to wonder who's paying nearly $5000 for an SG, and why?


One thing I'm sure hasn't changed from The Olden Days is that stores, esp those dealing w/ long term clients, don't make money on everything they sell.
They make money on the overall operation so a loss leader here/there is a customer service factor.
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#2865774 - 07/10/17 07:07 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: d]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Well in any case, it`s hard to work up a lot of empathy or agreement when articles like this show up:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/...m=.4a0943fdd00b
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#2865788 - 07/10/17 08:05 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: skipclone 1]
whitefang Online   content
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Since Skip brought up the "death of electric guitar" theme again, I do have one question....

How do ACOUSTIC sales compare to the electrics?

And yes, I realize they can't keep any guitar manufaturers afloat indefinitely, but I was just wondering. And since the LAST "new" guitar I ever bought was a relatively inexpensive Washburn 12, and THAT was 18 YEARS ago, I do feel empathy for those who, like many here, are afflicted with the rabid obsession of constantly buying, selling and "swapping out" their collection of guitars. I know the desire is for continual improvement, and that can't be accomplished if the newer products out there continue to NOT be up to "snuff".
Whitefang
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#2865807 - 07/10/17 08:48 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: whitefang]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
Since Skip brought up the "death of electric guitar" theme again, I do have one question....

How do ACOUSTIC sales compare to the electrics?

And yes, I realize they can't keep any guitar manufaturers afloat indefinitely, but I was just wondering. And since the LAST "new" guitar I ever bought was a relatively inexpensive Washburn 12, and THAT was 18 YEARS ago, I do feel empathy for those who, like many here, are afflicted with the rabid obsession of constantly buying, selling and "swapping out" their collection of guitars. I know the desire is for continual improvement, and that can't be accomplished if the newer products out there continue to NOT be up to "snuff".
Whitefang


Two-part response - Acoustics seem to hold steady, but the "Taylor Swift effect" that's brought more girls and young women to the Guitar tends to favor Acoustic Guitars. It's also a lot easier to make cookie-cutter solid-body Electrics, which is responsible for the proliferation of cheap Electrics, IMHO.

As to your last, insightful remark, about seeking improvement, and not finding it in newer products, that's part of why I love used gear.

I figure any Guitar that's already withstood a few years of playing is probably going to hold up with good care; the real junkers don't last.

I'm not playing the inflated market price for whatever Gibson/Fender/Somebody is trying to push onto the market this season: If it's really any good, I'll be able to buy a nice used one in six months or so, for a lot less money.

A used Guitar is also likely to hold its value, if not increase, and I'm not afraid of getting the first ding on an otherwise pristine Instrument.
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#2865816 - 07/10/17 09:07 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Winston Psmith]
JuJu Kwan Offline
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Registered: 02/08/16
Posts: 176
Loc: Shenzhen, China
My first guitar was a Strat copy, one of those you can purchase in bulk for less than a 100 USD, depending on how many to buy. I'm sure my father paid less than 100 USD for it. I got a cheap battery operated amp. I loved that cheap guitar, I kept by my bed and it was the last thing I saw at night and first thing I saw in the morning. I got my first guitar before I got my second guitar, I believe that is true of everyone.
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#2865821 - 07/10/17 09:18 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Winston Psmith]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
the "Taylor Swift effect" that's brought more girls and young women to the Guitar tends to favor Acoustic Guitars.


I think we need a new Chrissy Hynde to bring some attitude back to the lives of teen girls. And to let them know how cool Telecasters are.
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#2865983 - 07/10/17 04:39 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Scott Fraser]
JuJu Kwan Offline
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Loc: Shenzhen, China
I wonder how many girls who bought a guitar because of Taylor Swift will ever buy another guitar. I also wonder how many bought the $329 signature model, or $129 look alike.
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#2866012 - 07/10/17 06:41 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Well, before there was Taylor Swift, there was Avril Levine. And before that, Jennifer Batten, Joan Jett and the ladies of Heart to name but a few. Some had signature guitars; all got more women playing guitars.

OTOH, we do also have St. Vincent, Jenn Wasner and Orianthi, all with their own signature guitars.
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#2866014 - 07/10/17 06:44 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Also, as a frequent gear buyer, I have to confess I don't sell much of anything. With the exception of a cello I "gave" to our church music director, I don't get rig of gear until I've well and truly killed it.

At least, I haven't so far. I'm not hard on my gear, truth be known- only my first guitar (an Alvarez starter acoustic) ever actually died.
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#2866038 - 07/10/17 08:35 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
Well, before there was Taylor Swift, there was Avril Levine. And before that, Jennifer Batten, Joan Jett and the ladies of Heart to name but a few. Some had signature guitars; all got more women playing guitars.
OTOH, we do also have St. Vincent, Jenn Wasner and Orianthi, all with their own signature guitars.


Can't overlook Bonnie Raitt.
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#2866041 - 07/10/17 08:54 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Scott Fraser]
Larryz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
Well, before there was Taylor Swift, there was Avril Levine. And before that, Jennifer Batten, Joan Jett and the ladies of Heart to name but a few. Some had signature guitars; all got more women playing guitars.
OTOH, we do also have St. Vincent, Jenn Wasner and Orianthi, all with their own signature guitars.


Can't overlook Bonnie Raitt.


and, our own Kaki King has a signature Ovation! cool
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#2866053 - 07/10/17 09:29 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Wasn't overlooking, just had to stop somewhere!
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#2866080 - 07/11/17 04:39 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Well there is also a basic point that is different for guitars-at least I hope so. The point of making music is not supposed to be buying or selling more instruments-it`s supposed to be, you know-about making music.
Guitars don`t go bad if you forget to put them in the refrigerator.
Is anybody saying this to Gibson or Fender?
The people who are telling me I HAVE to have a new guitar in Fall 2017-well am I going to play it or wear it? give me a break.
So like I said when I first read the article-sorry, I didn`t know it had already been posted-is that, I don`t know that the question of `why should we care` was ever answered. Not unless someone works for one of those companies. If some record company didn`t come knocking on your door when guitar ruled the world, they won`t even if the tuba is the sun god of music tomorrow. Play and enjoy.
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#2866087 - 07/11/17 05:27 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
My first guitar was a Strat copy, one of those you can purchase in bulk for less than a 100 USD, depending on how many to buy. I'm sure my father paid less than 100 USD for it. I got a cheap battery operated amp. I loved that cheap guitar, I kept by my bed and it was the last thing I saw at night and first thing I saw in the morning. I got my first guitar before I got my second guitar, I believe that is true of everyone.


smile

My first guitar was an old, terribly bad 1960's Japanese made "knock-off" of a Fender Jaguar- well, sort of. (Many later Japanese made guitars are wonderful guitars! This was their horrible, embarrassing ancestor... ! crazy grin ) It was used- fairly beat-up, and missing some parts- and I paid the princely sum of $27.00 for it. Plugged it into a rigged-up Sanyo portable stereo, which distorted very weirdly.

I was so stoked. rawk

Between that guitar's propensity for breaking strings, and the rather short scale-length of the next electric guitar that I bought a couple of years later (a Peavey T-15 with a 23.5" scale-length), I developed a taste for heavier gauge strings, such as "11's".

That Peavey T-15 was fairly inexpensive, even brand-new; if I recall correctly, I paid not much more than $200.00 for it in the Summer of 1983. It was a gigantic step up from that no-name Jaguar-esque torture instrument!

Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
I wonder how many girls who bought a guitar because of Taylor Swift will ever buy another guitar. I also wonder how many bought the $329 signature model, or $129 look alike.


I suspect that it's typical that the majority of first-time guitar buyers and players don't continue on with the instrument; not all are "bitten by the bug".
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#2866263 - 07/12/17 04:38 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
whitefang Online   content
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I'd guess with some girls it's also a matter of vanity. example:

A friend of mine's daughter didn't like the idea that she couldn't grow her NAILS on one hand as long as she wanted. Made it hard if not impossible to press down on the fretboard in order to play chords. And develop CALLUSES? God FORBID! shocked

Still yet, ANOTHER friend's daughter does OK. She never really CARED about any of that sort of thing. wink
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#2866270 - 07/12/17 05:11 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: skipclone 1]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
Well there is also a basic point that is different for guitars-at least I hope so. The point of making music is not supposed to be buying or selling more instruments-it`s supposed to be, you know-about making music.


Good call; so true.

Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
Guitars don`t go bad if you forget to put them in the refrigerator.
Is anybody saying this to Gibson or Fender?
The people who are telling me I HAVE to have a new guitar in Fall 2017-well am I going to play it or wear it? give me a break.
So like I said when I first read the article-sorry, I didn`t know it had already been posted-is that, I don`t know that the question of `why should we care` was ever answered. Not unless someone works for one of those companies. If some record company didn`t come knocking on your door when guitar ruled the world, they won`t even if the tuba is the sun god of music tomorrow. Play and enjoy.


I think that beside the matter of instrument sales- used as well as new- there seems to be considerable less interest in and more apathy concerning learning how to play guitar or bass out there these days, particularly among the youth.

Less expensive opportunities may be a good thing- and while we might think of some of these as cheap and shoddy, many or maybe even most are FAR better and less discouraging than MANY of the entry-level instruments that many of US endured in our youth!
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#2866299 - 07/12/17 07:24 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
JuJu Kwan Offline
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+1 Caevan.
I would add one more thing, a guitar playing parent may have a completely different idea of what is an acceptable price for a first guitar than a none guitar playing parent.


Edited by JuJu Kwan (07/12/17 07:25 AM)
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#2866304 - 07/12/17 07:37 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
+1 Caevan.
I would add one more thing, a guitar playing parent may have a completely different idea of what is an acceptable price for a first guitar than a none guitar playing parent.


Truth! I experienced that, myself. Even when I had a job and was spending my own hard earned money, my Mom tried to get a bass-playing friend of the family's to try to talk me out of buying what she thought of as being too expensive of a guitar. He politely told her that he disagreed, and that I should be encouraged to buy a better instrument like the one I'd picked out!
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#2866330 - 07/12/17 08:54 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
+1 Caevan.
I would add one more thing, a guitar playing parent may have a completely different idea of what is an acceptable price for a first guitar than a none guitar playing parent.


Truth! I experienced that, myself. Even when I had a job and was spending my own hard earned money, my Mom tried to get a bass-playing friend of the family's to try to talk me out of buying what she thought of as being too expensive of a guitar. He politely told her that he disagreed, and that I should be encouraged to buy a better instrument like the one I'd picked out!


I ran into this issue constantly, when selling Guitars! It was very difficult to make some parents see that buying the cheapest Instrument possible - "Until we're sure (s)he's going to stick with it" - was not a good, nor an economical move. The difference between the cheapest budget Guitars and the better-made mid-line models was considerable; $100 or so for the budget Guitars, as opposed to $350-400 for a good mid-priced Guitar that would last, and that a player could grow into. IMHO, the difference in quality was also considerable.
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#2866336 - 07/12/17 09:04 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Larryz Offline
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Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
+1 Caevan.
I would add one more thing, a guitar playing parent may have a completely different idea of what is an acceptable price for a first guitar than a none guitar playing parent.


+1 thu
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#2866437 - 07/12/17 02:39 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Online   content
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Lemme throw this in as another POV....

I too, tried to get my daughters interested in learning to play, and they were at an age when how their fingernails looked wasn't that big a concern.

But MY mistake was NOT in buying smaller models of cheap guitars( the girls weren't that physically big yet), but in not getting them the NYLON stringed instruments. They quickly lost interest when "It hurts my FINGERS" excuse was available to them. Trying to patiently explain they had to build up calluses didn't help either. They were 7 and 11 at the time.
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#2866533 - 07/13/17 01:56 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite

I think that beside the matter of instrument sales- used as well as new- there seems to be considerable less interest in and more apathy concerning learning how to play guitar or bass out there these days, particularly among the youth.

Less expensive opportunities may be a good thing- and while we might think of some of these as cheap and shoddy, many or maybe even most are FAR better and less discouraging than MANY of the entry-level instruments that many of US endured in our youth!


Yes agreed entirely, and I kind of went off on a personal tangent about the whole thing-wrong turn. New instrument sales-well here is what that is up against. Populist rhetoric that music education is not reading writing and arithmetic, and schools with tight budgets should be putting it and arts education in general on the chopping block. Then frankly-this may be arming a bomb but-IMO it`s also fallout from the DJ as musician and producer as pop star thing. let`s face it-being on stage is sexy, thrilling and highly addictive. Music education is none of those, at least not for most people. It`s a long-term commitment, with a lot of peaks and valleys. This, in the land of give it to me NOW-of course it`s going to be a problem.

I don`t know about where this leaves guitar music in particular. But I have to say it-the band Clean Bandit for example, is totally non-guitar music. But they know how to play their instruments. So does Zedd, you can see him play a very competent version of one of his EDM songs on acoustic piano on youtube. They may not inspire someone to run out and buy a guitar, but at least it`s a hope for music education.
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#2866537 - 07/13/17 04:02 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: skipclone 1]
whitefang Online   content
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Indeed, the idea of keeping or returning(in some cases) music education in schools has something OTHER to do with than just teaching kids music. And also true and sad is the first to go when "cutback" time comes.
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#2866560 - 07/13/17 06:31 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: whitefang]
skipclone 1 Offline
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One thing I have noticed in Japan-I`m not up on the fine print of school budgets but-the idea of cutting a part of the curriculum, doesn`t happen. For now at least, there will be music as part of the basic curriculum-end of dicussion. On average, I would say that leaving provincial culture influences aside, Japnese bands are better educated musically than their American counterparts. That only makes it more ironic that the pop idols-where did the name `American Idol` come from again?-are mostly mediocre singers. With some that is being generous. Their real job is looking good in front of a camera. In fact, many of them are hired by talent agencies-Johnny`s is the largest-and they are basically salaried employees. The real money is from promotions, TV appearances, commercials, etc-they don`t even necessarily CARE about music.
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#2866579 - 07/13/17 08:21 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: skipclone 1]
Larryz Offline
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I would always like to see the music programs funded in our schools. Most kids (like me) may not continue with their instrument studies after High School, but it is a great way to introduce them to music. Most kids also start out on cheaper versions of the instruments (much like this thread's comments on cheaper starter guitars). If they show a sincere interest and continue on, more expensive models will be in their future. If I were buying my kids or my grandkids a starter (which I bought a nice Ovation for my daughter who didn't continue after a few collage courses)...I would make sure it's an easy guitar to play and learn on and not be too expensive. cool
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#2866721 - 07/13/17 08:20 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Epiphone just introduced some new models, including a sort of Les Paul Jr with single coils for a street price of $99. With a name brand like that driving prices down in the entry level market I don't see how unknown upstarts have any chance.
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#2866731 - 07/13/17 10:19 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Scott Fraser]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Epiphone just introduced some new models, including a sort of Les Paul Jr with single coils for a street price of $99. With a name brand like that driving prices down in the entry level market I don't see how unknown upstarts have any chance.


Is theses thems?


____ Epiphone presents the 2017 Les Paul SL™

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#2866736 - 07/14/17 01:58 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Scott Fraser]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Personally I LOVE unknown upstarts-but not for beginner guitars (even though I`m still a beginner).
I think there is a balance-a lot of parents these days are aware
of environmental issues. No one wants to buy something that will be useless junk in a year-if not less. The other side is, buying something nice and it`s not being played. My parents went through that with the piano. I still kind of regret it sometimes but trends or no trends, I`ll never regret pledging allegiance to the guitar.
Anyway just because it`s cheap, doesn`t mean it will destroy everything in its path.
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#2866743 - 07/14/17 03:56 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: skipclone 1]
whitefang Online   content
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Caev---

Those Epi LPs have the same bridge set up my '67 Kalamazoo cheapie had! Gibson Inc. must have had a TON of leftover parts! grin

And what do cheap guitars have to do with the ENVRONMENT, Skip?
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#2866793 - 07/14/17 08:44 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Epiphone just introduced some new models, including a sort of Les Paul Jr with single coils for a street price of $99. With a name brand like that driving prices down in the entry level market I don't see how unknown upstarts have any chance.


Is theses thems?

____ Epiphone presents the 2017 Les Paul SL™



Yup, that's them.
If I were 14 & starting a garage band I'd be all over that sunburst model. Looks very much like a Melody Maker a bandmate had in my high school days. But the scratch plate is kinda silly, ugly.
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#2866798 - 07/14/17 09:04 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
p90jr Offline
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Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
There was a thread awhile back about what was your first guitar, and I noticed no one mentioned Fender or Gibson. Most of you started out on some really cheap guitar and moved up to better guitars when you could afford to. Without that cheap first guitar you probably wouldn't be playing guitar today. This looks like an affordable entry level electric.


Yep!!!

My first electric was a Memphis Les Paul copy. Within a year or so the neck was warped and the intonation was shot.

Saved up $800 over a couple of summer jobs and went guitar shopping... at the time, what I could afford with that from Gibson felt insulting, and nobody had any new Fenders except for Strats and Teles that were above $1,000 (and I didn't like them... the end of the CBS era). I bought a wonderful Yamaha! Still have it, and it's still a wonderful and a truly well-made guitar!

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#2866825 - 07/14/17 10:43 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: p90jr]
Larryz Offline
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The sunburst one looks kind of cute. It could be a kids starter, if it plays well...I like a master tone and volume with a 3-way! cool
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#2866836 - 07/14/17 11:17 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
.I like a master tone and volume with a 3-way! cool


That's what my PRS's have. Much as I like to get super tweaky about tone, I don't really need separate neck & bridge controls, just master volume & tone. Good formula I think. And especially good for a starter.
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#2866939 - 07/14/17 09:22 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Scott Fraser]
Larryz Offline
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+1 on the starter Scott. I don't mind a the Gibson style set up with 2 volumes and 2 tones. I like to blend the 4 volumes and tones in the center position and come up with some different sounds... cool

ps. I have never got to try a PRS yet, but I know they sound and look sweet! One of these days I'll find one hanging on the rack somewhere and give it a try!


Edited by Larryz (07/14/17 09:28 PM)
Edit Reason: ps.
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#2867005 - 07/15/17 08:09 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
ps. I have never got to try a PRS yet, but I know they sound and look sweet! One of these days I'll find one hanging on the rack somewhere and give it a try!


Just brace yourself for some sticker shock. Their entry level imports are around $750 & the US models are in the $3000 to $10,000 range. But, unlike Gibson, that kind of bread buys you a truly deluxe experience. And what I think is the perfect scale length; midway between Fender & Gibson, at 25".
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#2867033 - 07/15/17 09:25 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
JuJu Kwan Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
The sunburst one looks kind of cute. It could be a kids starter, if it plays well...I like a master tone and volume with a 3-way! cool

Add a practice amp, strap and cable and for 250 USD you are ready to go.
A flying v would be nice.


Edited by JuJu Kwan (07/15/17 09:29 AM)
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#2867042 - 07/15/17 09:55 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Larryz Offline
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@ Scott, Carlos Santana switched from an LP to a PRS, and that PRS scale length may have been one of the reasons? But, I think it was the way they can sustain a note for that singing violin sound he gets! cool

@ JuJu, I've never been much of a Flying V fan, but if I have a budding rock star grandkid, I'll make sure he or she gets one LOL! I wonder if they could produce that more expensive body style in a cheaper $99 guitar? cool


Edited by Larryz (07/15/17 09:57 AM)
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#2867185 - 07/15/17 10:11 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
Originally Posted By: Larryz
The sunburst one looks kind of cute. It could be a kids starter, if it plays well...I like a master tone and volume with a 3-way! cool

Add a practice amp, strap and cable and for 250 USD you are ready to go.
A flying v would be nice.


Yhup!

Originally Posted By: p90jr
Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
There was a thread awhile back about what was your first guitar, and I noticed no one mentioned Fender or Gibson. Most of you started out on some really cheap guitar and moved up to better guitars when you could afford to. Without that cheap first guitar you probably wouldn't be playing guitar today. This looks like an affordable entry level electric.


Yep!!!

My first electric was a Memphis Les Paul copy. Within a year or so the neck was warped and the intonation was shot.


I remember them... ! Cool looking hang-tags on 'em, but generally mediocre guitars...

Originally Posted By: p90jr
Saved up $800 over a couple of summer jobs and went guitar shopping... at the time, what I could afford with that from Gibson felt insulting, and nobody had any new Fenders except for Strats and Teles that were above $1,000 (and I didn't like them... the end of the CBS era). I bought a wonderful Yamaha! Still have it, and it's still a wonderful and a truly well-made guitar!


What Gibsons? L6-S's? Or some of those really stupidly painted variations on Les Pauls, Explorers, V's... or what?

And what is that Yamaha?
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