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#2866053 - 07/10/17 09:29 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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#2866080 - 07/11/17 04:39 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Well there is also a basic point that is different for guitars-at least I hope so. The point of making music is not supposed to be buying or selling more instruments-it`s supposed to be, you know-about making music.
Guitars don`t go bad if you forget to put them in the refrigerator.
Is anybody saying this to Gibson or Fender?
The people who are telling me I HAVE to have a new guitar in Fall 2017-well am I going to play it or wear it? give me a break.
So like I said when I first read the article-sorry, I didn`t know it had already been posted-is that, I don`t know that the question of `why should we care` was ever answered. Not unless someone works for one of those companies. If some record company didn`t come knocking on your door when guitar ruled the world, they won`t even if the tuba is the sun god of music tomorrow. Play and enjoy.
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#2866087 - 07/11/17 05:27 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
My first guitar was a Strat copy, one of those you can purchase in bulk for less than a 100 USD, depending on how many to buy. I'm sure my father paid less than 100 USD for it. I got a cheap battery operated amp. I loved that cheap guitar, I kept by my bed and it was the last thing I saw at night and first thing I saw in the morning. I got my first guitar before I got my second guitar, I believe that is true of everyone.


smile

My first guitar was an old, terribly bad 1960's Japanese made "knock-off" of a Fender Jaguar- well, sort of. (Many later Japanese made guitars are wonderful guitars! This was their horrible, embarrassing ancestor... ! crazy grin ) It was used- fairly beat-up, and missing some parts- and I paid the princely sum of $27.00 for it. Plugged it into a rigged-up Sanyo portable stereo, which distorted very weirdly.

I was so stoked. rawk

Between that guitar's propensity for breaking strings, and the rather short scale-length of the next electric guitar that I bought a couple of years later (a Peavey T-15 with a 23.5" scale-length), I developed a taste for heavier gauge strings, such as "11's".

That Peavey T-15 was fairly inexpensive, even brand-new; if I recall correctly, I paid not much more than $200.00 for it in the Summer of 1983. It was a gigantic step up from that no-name Jaguar-esque torture instrument!

Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
I wonder how many girls who bought a guitar because of Taylor Swift will ever buy another guitar. I also wonder how many bought the $329 signature model, or $129 look alike.


I suspect that it's typical that the majority of first-time guitar buyers and players don't continue on with the instrument; not all are "bitten by the bug".
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#2866263 - 07/12/17 04:38 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
whitefang Offline
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I'd guess with some girls it's also a matter of vanity. example:

A friend of mine's daughter didn't like the idea that she couldn't grow her NAILS on one hand as long as she wanted. Made it hard if not impossible to press down on the fretboard in order to play chords. And develop CALLUSES? God FORBID! shocked

Still yet, ANOTHER friend's daughter does OK. She never really CARED about any of that sort of thing. wink
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#2866270 - 07/12/17 05:11 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: skipclone 1]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
Well there is also a basic point that is different for guitars-at least I hope so. The point of making music is not supposed to be buying or selling more instruments-it`s supposed to be, you know-about making music.


Good call; so true.

Originally Posted By: skipclone 1
Guitars don`t go bad if you forget to put them in the refrigerator.
Is anybody saying this to Gibson or Fender?
The people who are telling me I HAVE to have a new guitar in Fall 2017-well am I going to play it or wear it? give me a break.
So like I said when I first read the article-sorry, I didn`t know it had already been posted-is that, I don`t know that the question of `why should we care` was ever answered. Not unless someone works for one of those companies. If some record company didn`t come knocking on your door when guitar ruled the world, they won`t even if the tuba is the sun god of music tomorrow. Play and enjoy.


I think that beside the matter of instrument sales- used as well as new- there seems to be considerable less interest in and more apathy concerning learning how to play guitar or bass out there these days, particularly among the youth.

Less expensive opportunities may be a good thing- and while we might think of some of these as cheap and shoddy, many or maybe even most are FAR better and less discouraging than MANY of the entry-level instruments that many of US endured in our youth!
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#2866299 - 07/12/17 07:24 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
JuJu Kwan Offline
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+1 Caevan.
I would add one more thing, a guitar playing parent may have a completely different idea of what is an acceptable price for a first guitar than a none guitar playing parent.


Edited by JuJu Kwan (07/12/17 07:25 AM)
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#2866304 - 07/12/17 07:37 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
+1 Caevan.
I would add one more thing, a guitar playing parent may have a completely different idea of what is an acceptable price for a first guitar than a none guitar playing parent.


Truth! I experienced that, myself. Even when I had a job and was spending my own hard earned money, my Mom tried to get a bass-playing friend of the family's to try to talk me out of buying what she thought of as being too expensive of a guitar. He politely told her that he disagreed, and that I should be encouraged to buy a better instrument like the one I'd picked out!
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#2866330 - 07/12/17 08:54 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
+1 Caevan.
I would add one more thing, a guitar playing parent may have a completely different idea of what is an acceptable price for a first guitar than a none guitar playing parent.


Truth! I experienced that, myself. Even when I had a job and was spending my own hard earned money, my Mom tried to get a bass-playing friend of the family's to try to talk me out of buying what she thought of as being too expensive of a guitar. He politely told her that he disagreed, and that I should be encouraged to buy a better instrument like the one I'd picked out!


I ran into this issue constantly, when selling Guitars! It was very difficult to make some parents see that buying the cheapest Instrument possible - "Until we're sure (s)he's going to stick with it" - was not a good, nor an economical move. The difference between the cheapest budget Guitars and the better-made mid-line models was considerable; $100 or so for the budget Guitars, as opposed to $350-400 for a good mid-priced Guitar that would last, and that a player could grow into. IMHO, the difference in quality was also considerable.
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#2866336 - 07/12/17 09:04 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Larryz Offline
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Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
+1 Caevan.
I would add one more thing, a guitar playing parent may have a completely different idea of what is an acceptable price for a first guitar than a none guitar playing parent.


+1 thu
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#2866437 - 07/12/17 02:39 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Lemme throw this in as another POV....

I too, tried to get my daughters interested in learning to play, and they were at an age when how their fingernails looked wasn't that big a concern.

But MY mistake was NOT in buying smaller models of cheap guitars( the girls weren't that physically big yet), but in not getting them the NYLON stringed instruments. They quickly lost interest when "It hurts my FINGERS" excuse was available to them. Trying to patiently explain they had to build up calluses didn't help either. They were 7 and 11 at the time.
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#2866533 - 07/13/17 01:56 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite

I think that beside the matter of instrument sales- used as well as new- there seems to be considerable less interest in and more apathy concerning learning how to play guitar or bass out there these days, particularly among the youth.

Less expensive opportunities may be a good thing- and while we might think of some of these as cheap and shoddy, many or maybe even most are FAR better and less discouraging than MANY of the entry-level instruments that many of US endured in our youth!


Yes agreed entirely, and I kind of went off on a personal tangent about the whole thing-wrong turn. New instrument sales-well here is what that is up against. Populist rhetoric that music education is not reading writing and arithmetic, and schools with tight budgets should be putting it and arts education in general on the chopping block. Then frankly-this may be arming a bomb but-IMO it`s also fallout from the DJ as musician and producer as pop star thing. let`s face it-being on stage is sexy, thrilling and highly addictive. Music education is none of those, at least not for most people. It`s a long-term commitment, with a lot of peaks and valleys. This, in the land of give it to me NOW-of course it`s going to be a problem.

I don`t know about where this leaves guitar music in particular. But I have to say it-the band Clean Bandit for example, is totally non-guitar music. But they know how to play their instruments. So does Zedd, you can see him play a very competent version of one of his EDM songs on acoustic piano on youtube. They may not inspire someone to run out and buy a guitar, but at least it`s a hope for music education.
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#2866537 - 07/13/17 04:02 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: skipclone 1]
whitefang Offline
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Indeed, the idea of keeping or returning(in some cases) music education in schools has something OTHER to do with than just teaching kids music. And also true and sad is the first to go when "cutback" time comes.
Whitefang
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#2866560 - 07/13/17 06:31 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: whitefang]
skipclone 1 Offline
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One thing I have noticed in Japan-I`m not up on the fine print of school budgets but-the idea of cutting a part of the curriculum, doesn`t happen. For now at least, there will be music as part of the basic curriculum-end of dicussion. On average, I would say that leaving provincial culture influences aside, Japnese bands are better educated musically than their American counterparts. That only makes it more ironic that the pop idols-where did the name `American Idol` come from again?-are mostly mediocre singers. With some that is being generous. Their real job is looking good in front of a camera. In fact, many of them are hired by talent agencies-Johnny`s is the largest-and they are basically salaried employees. The real money is from promotions, TV appearances, commercials, etc-they don`t even necessarily CARE about music.
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#2866579 - 07/13/17 08:21 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: skipclone 1]
Larryz Offline
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I would always like to see the music programs funded in our schools. Most kids (like me) may not continue with their instrument studies after High School, but it is a great way to introduce them to music. Most kids also start out on cheaper versions of the instruments (much like this thread's comments on cheaper starter guitars). If they show a sincere interest and continue on, more expensive models will be in their future. If I were buying my kids or my grandkids a starter (which I bought a nice Ovation for my daughter who didn't continue after a few collage courses)...I would make sure it's an easy guitar to play and learn on and not be too expensive. cool
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#2866721 - 07/13/17 08:20 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Epiphone just introduced some new models, including a sort of Les Paul Jr with single coils for a street price of $99. With a name brand like that driving prices down in the entry level market I don't see how unknown upstarts have any chance.
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#2866731 - 07/13/17 10:19 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Scott Fraser]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Epiphone just introduced some new models, including a sort of Les Paul Jr with single coils for a street price of $99. With a name brand like that driving prices down in the entry level market I don't see how unknown upstarts have any chance.


Is theses thems?


____ Epiphone presents the 2017 Les Paul SL™

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#2866736 - 07/14/17 01:58 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Scott Fraser]
skipclone 1 Offline
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Personally I LOVE unknown upstarts-but not for beginner guitars (even though I`m still a beginner).
I think there is a balance-a lot of parents these days are aware
of environmental issues. No one wants to buy something that will be useless junk in a year-if not less. The other side is, buying something nice and it`s not being played. My parents went through that with the piano. I still kind of regret it sometimes but trends or no trends, I`ll never regret pledging allegiance to the guitar.
Anyway just because it`s cheap, doesn`t mean it will destroy everything in its path.
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#2866743 - 07/14/17 03:56 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: skipclone 1]
whitefang Offline
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Caev---

Those Epi LPs have the same bridge set up my '67 Kalamazoo cheapie had! Gibson Inc. must have had a TON of leftover parts! grin

And what do cheap guitars have to do with the ENVRONMENT, Skip?
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#2866793 - 07/14/17 08:44 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Epiphone just introduced some new models, including a sort of Les Paul Jr with single coils for a street price of $99. With a name brand like that driving prices down in the entry level market I don't see how unknown upstarts have any chance.


Is theses thems?

____ Epiphone presents the 2017 Les Paul SL™



Yup, that's them.
If I were 14 & starting a garage band I'd be all over that sunburst model. Looks very much like a Melody Maker a bandmate had in my high school days. But the scratch plate is kinda silly, ugly.
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#2866798 - 07/14/17 09:04 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
p90jr Offline
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Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
There was a thread awhile back about what was your first guitar, and I noticed no one mentioned Fender or Gibson. Most of you started out on some really cheap guitar and moved up to better guitars when you could afford to. Without that cheap first guitar you probably wouldn't be playing guitar today. This looks like an affordable entry level electric.


Yep!!!

My first electric was a Memphis Les Paul copy. Within a year or so the neck was warped and the intonation was shot.

Saved up $800 over a couple of summer jobs and went guitar shopping... at the time, what I could afford with that from Gibson felt insulting, and nobody had any new Fenders except for Strats and Teles that were above $1,000 (and I didn't like them... the end of the CBS era). I bought a wonderful Yamaha! Still have it, and it's still a wonderful and a truly well-made guitar!

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#2866825 - 07/14/17 10:43 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: p90jr]
Larryz Offline
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The sunburst one looks kind of cute. It could be a kids starter, if it plays well...I like a master tone and volume with a 3-way! cool
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#2866836 - 07/14/17 11:17 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
.I like a master tone and volume with a 3-way! cool


That's what my PRS's have. Much as I like to get super tweaky about tone, I don't really need separate neck & bridge controls, just master volume & tone. Good formula I think. And especially good for a starter.
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#2866939 - 07/14/17 09:22 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Scott Fraser]
Larryz Offline
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+1 on the starter Scott. I don't mind a the Gibson style set up with 2 volumes and 2 tones. I like to blend the 4 volumes and tones in the center position and come up with some different sounds... cool

ps. I have never got to try a PRS yet, but I know they sound and look sweet! One of these days I'll find one hanging on the rack somewhere and give it a try!


Edited by Larryz (07/14/17 09:28 PM)
Edit Reason: ps.
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#2867005 - 07/15/17 08:09 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
ps. I have never got to try a PRS yet, but I know they sound and look sweet! One of these days I'll find one hanging on the rack somewhere and give it a try!


Just brace yourself for some sticker shock. Their entry level imports are around $750 & the US models are in the $3000 to $10,000 range. But, unlike Gibson, that kind of bread buys you a truly deluxe experience. And what I think is the perfect scale length; midway between Fender & Gibson, at 25".
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#2867033 - 07/15/17 09:25 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
JuJu Kwan Offline
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Registered: 02/08/16
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Loc: Shenzhen, China
Originally Posted By: Larryz
The sunburst one looks kind of cute. It could be a kids starter, if it plays well...I like a master tone and volume with a 3-way! cool

Add a practice amp, strap and cable and for 250 USD you are ready to go.
A flying v would be nice.


Edited by JuJu Kwan (07/15/17 09:29 AM)
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#2867042 - 07/15/17 09:55 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Larryz Offline
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@ Scott, Carlos Santana switched from an LP to a PRS, and that PRS scale length may have been one of the reasons? But, I think it was the way they can sustain a note for that singing violin sound he gets! cool

@ JuJu, I've never been much of a Flying V fan, but if I have a budding rock star grandkid, I'll make sure he or she gets one LOL! I wonder if they could produce that more expensive body style in a cheaper $99 guitar? cool


Edited by Larryz (07/15/17 09:57 AM)
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#2867185 - 07/15/17 10:11 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
Originally Posted By: Larryz
The sunburst one looks kind of cute. It could be a kids starter, if it plays well...I like a master tone and volume with a 3-way! cool

Add a practice amp, strap and cable and for 250 USD you are ready to go.
A flying v would be nice.


Yhup!

Originally Posted By: p90jr
Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
There was a thread awhile back about what was your first guitar, and I noticed no one mentioned Fender or Gibson. Most of you started out on some really cheap guitar and moved up to better guitars when you could afford to. Without that cheap first guitar you probably wouldn't be playing guitar today. This looks like an affordable entry level electric.


Yep!!!

My first electric was a Memphis Les Paul copy. Within a year or so the neck was warped and the intonation was shot.


I remember them... ! Cool looking hang-tags on 'em, but generally mediocre guitars...

Originally Posted By: p90jr
Saved up $800 over a couple of summer jobs and went guitar shopping... at the time, what I could afford with that from Gibson felt insulting, and nobody had any new Fenders except for Strats and Teles that were above $1,000 (and I didn't like them... the end of the CBS era). I bought a wonderful Yamaha! Still have it, and it's still a wonderful and a truly well-made guitar!


What Gibsons? L6-S's? Or some of those really stupidly painted variations on Les Pauls, Explorers, V's... or what?

And what is that Yamaha?
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