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#2864747 - 07/06/17 05:27 AM Like the look of these...
picker Offline
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#2864782 - 07/06/17 09:50 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: picker]
desertbluesman Offline
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Decent price for a cheapie. I bet with a little TLC you could make a decent instrument out of those.
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#2864785 - 07/06/17 09:56 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: desertbluesman]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Nice! Good price, even for "B Stock" 'blems'. Bet it rocks!
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#2864830 - 07/06/17 02:32 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
whitefang Offline
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Look pretty good for a beginner on a tight budget, or even someone who's been playing a while and money's funny.

Like that "B" stock SG model. But, I always kinda liked the SG look.
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#2864912 - 07/06/17 10:46 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Can't beat the price if it plays good... cool
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#2864966 - 07/07/17 05:52 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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I've gotta admit, this is tempting:

Blake Wright Guitars Santa Fe - Rustic Sunrise : B STOCK $150

________

Originally Posted By: Blake Wright Guitars
B STOCK NOTICE: These B stocks have one of the following:
-crooked tuners
-finish cracks
-paint inconsistency
All playability is not affected
Pictures available of B Stock upon request


Hell, the 'A-Stock' Santa Fe in "Rustic Sunrise" is only fifteen dollars more at $165! Shipping to my address would be $30...

So, in and out, it'd be $180 for the B-Stock, and $195 for the 'regular', assuming there's no taxes or fees...

Rather tempting...
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#2864995 - 07/07/17 07:03 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Winston Psmith Offline
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I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.
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#2865012 - 07/07/17 07:47 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Winston Psmith]
Fred_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.


Agreed. No interest in this cheap junk.
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#2865113 - 07/07/17 10:46 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Fred_C]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.


Korean made imports (possibly made to order?), some of them "B-Stock", and marked down even more to liquidate ASAP due to a business-retooling, as I understand.

Originally Posted By: Fred_C
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.


Agreed. No interest in this cheap junk.


My interest is in having a cheap 'beater' that may be surprisingly good; very nearly an impulse purchase- IF I go for it- almost a disposable guitar, but not quite. It might be a lot of fun! Sometimes cheap (but not too "junky") can make a plenty good enough bang-around Blues and Rock 'n' Roll axe.

Overall, though, usually, my tastes in guitars are a bit- quite a bit- more discriminating.
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#2865122 - 07/07/17 11:05 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
d Offline
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The thing to me, & I can't explain the economics, which may, in fact, be multifaceted, is that these days ALL MAINSTREAM ELECTICALISED GTRS EVERYWHERE ARE MADE BY CAD & then trimmed/adjusted [damn, how may commas I gotta put it one sentence ?! laugh ].
The frets are all better placed, e.g., than any gtr before 1980.

To me that makes them all equal outside their electronix.
Am I missing something ?
---------------

Of course that applies to electric gtrs.
Acs, uh, axes & ac/elec models have real timbral issues that exist in the real physical world...but really who cares abt that anymore ?
[ poke ]
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#2865197 - 07/07/17 02:13 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: d]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: d
The thing to me, & I can't explain the economics, which may, in fact, be multifaceted, is that these days ALL MAINSTREAM ELECTICALISED GTRS EVERYWHERE ARE MADE BY CAD & then trimmed/adjusted [damn, how may commas I gotta put it one sentence ?! laugh ].
The frets are all better placed, e.g., than any gtr before 1980.

To me that makes them all equal outside their electronix.
Am I missing something ?
---------------

Of course that applies to electric gtrs.
Acs, uh, axes & ac/elec models have real timbral issues that exist in the real physical world...but really who cares abt that anymore ?
[ poke ]


Respectfully, I concede your point, to a point. While affordable Guitars, like upper-end Squiers & Epis or MIM Fenders, are much improved over what they once were, cheap Guitars are still cheaply made. Nobody is running a Plek machine for $99 Guitars, for example, and just because the bodies are cut to measure by machine doesn't mean there's a higher level of QC to go with the high-tech assembly line.

I've read of major issues with the cheaper Epiphone models, for example, (mis-aligned frets, bridges too far too one side for the strings to line up on the neck, headstock breaks in HSC's) and looking in the control cavity of a lower-priced Squier, one of the models that comes in a multi-pack with an Amp, I was amazed at the nasty crack through the center of the body; the trem cover hid it in back, the pick guard in front. Many factories would never have used that piece of wood as a one-piece body, but would have cut it into useable sections for a multi-piece body.

Woods aren't all equal, either, even if they're called by the same names. Epiphone SG's (G400's) and LP's are usually made of "Eastern" Mahogany, or Nato, which isn't related to Mahogany, at all, but I've seen reports that they've been made of Alder, Mahogany, Lauan or God-knows-what, with Maple caps, Maple veneers, or all-"Mahogany", at various times, by various factories. Same with the new, affordable, D'Angelico's that are being advertised everywhere. Turns out they're made of Sapele (sp?), another tropical wood generally used in furniture; not true Mahogany, either.

It may be that these guys are, miraculously, able to sell a quality instrument at a bottom-feeder price. Never having had one of their Guitars in hand, I can't honestly say. I'm not yet willing to risk my money to find out, even though the B-stock SG style appeals to me, as well, even with the missing "T".
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#2865216 - 07/07/17 03:13 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Winston Psmith]
JuJu Kwan Offline
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There was a thread awhile back about what was your first guitar, and I noticed no one mentioned Fender or Gibson. Most of you started out on some really cheap guitar and moved up to better guitars when you could afford to. Without that cheap first guitar you probably wouldn't be playing guitar today. This looks like an affordable entry level electric.
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#2865297 - 07/07/17 11:00 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Larryz Offline
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+1 JuJu, That's why I said you can't beat the price if it plays good. We do need cheap entry level guitars for the new kids in town. Back when us old dudes were kids, there was a common thread in those old threads. And that was, the strings were very high off the neck and the guitars were very tough for us to try and learn on when we were kids. But, we were dedicated and nothing was going to stop us LOL! I think the kids today have an easier time finding an easy to play cheap electric guitar that will fit into their budgets. It may not make a good rock star axe with the cheaper pups, but it will get you started. Gibson and Fender were out of the question as no one could afford to start out on one back in the old days...My buddy had a Fender Mustang by our Sophomore year in High School. I got to play gigs on my Dad's Gibson ES-330 in our 1st band, and used my cheap Japanese Kawai electric guitar for practices... cool
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#2865313 - 07/08/17 03:45 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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+1 Larry.

And to stress that another way...

How many guys in here whose first CAR was a Mercedes? Fresh off the line?

Or whose first apartment was a PENTHOUSE? wink
Whitefang
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#2865379 - 07/08/17 09:28 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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thu
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#2865393 - 07/08/17 10:07 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
There was a thread awhile back about what was your first guitar, and I noticed no one mentioned Fender or Gibson. Most of you started out on some really cheap guitar and moved up to better guitars when you could afford to. Without that cheap first guitar you probably wouldn't be playing guitar today. This looks like an affordable entry level electric.


That's a fair point, and we wouldn't even be discussing these Guitars if they didn't look very good for the price.

I have to admit to a certain level of skepticism, however, because I see a lot of inexpensive Guitars offered online, often by companies I've never heard of, at prices that seem unrealistic, like the Guitars in this thread. Too often, the specs seem inflated, as well. In the photo of that B-stock Las Vegas (the SG clone), the Maple top must be an incredibly thin veneer, as it ends where top is contoured? Reminds me of the Foto-Flame Fenders.

B-stock Las Vegas Lava Red

I worked in Music Retail long enough to know that a decent finish can make almost any cheap Guitar look good, particularly in a photo, but that tells me nothing about how it plays, sounds or feels. I couldn't recommend these to anyone just starting out, until I'd played one.
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#2865571 - 07/09/17 06:36 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Winston Psmith]
picker Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.


Maybe they can make money off these instruments because the prices of all guitars, especially the "prestige" brands, are wildly, ridiculously, unbelievably inflated. Perhaps these prices are what guitars ought to cost. I like what Steve Miller said about vintage guitars; "I'm not interested in paying thousands of dollars for something cut out with as band saw."
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#2865590 - 07/09/17 08:06 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: picker]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: picker
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.


Maybe they can make money off these instruments because the prices of all guitars, especially the "prestige" brands, are wildly, ridiculously, unbelievably inflated. Perhaps these prices are what guitars ought to cost.


No argument there, brother. Looking at some of the new Gibson prices, I have to wonder who's paying nearly $5000 for an SG, and why?
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#2865598 - 07/09/17 09:04 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Winston Psmith]
Fred_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Originally Posted By: picker
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.


Maybe they can make money off these instruments because the prices of all guitars, especially the "prestige" brands, are wildly, ridiculously, unbelievably inflated. Perhaps these prices are what guitars ought to cost.


No argument there, brother. Looking at some of the new Gibson prices, I have to wonder who's paying nearly $5000 for an SG, and why?


I agree that guitars are ridiculously overpriced. I remember what a good quality instrument cost in the '60's and am amazed when I see prices on used guitars that are higher than the instrument was brand new.

This is why I am so impressed with instruments from companies like Peerless and Eastman which manufacture very high quality guitars for what are today, very reasonable prices. "Reasonable" does not necessarily equate with "cheap". There is a level of quality that I expect and I am not willing to settle for less. I'm guessing that at today's prices, this translates into about a $1,000 price point.

With regard to the guitars currently being discussed, someone who doesn't mind pissing away $150-175 should buy one and evaluate the level of quality.
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#2865612 - 07/09/17 11:01 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Winston Psmith]
d Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
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[No editing streamlining to clear the ground around points]
--------------------------------------------------------
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Originally Posted By: d
The thing to me, & I can't explain the economics, which may, in fact, be multifaceted, is that these days ALL MAINSTREAM ELECTICALISED GTRS EVERYWHERE ARE MADE BY CAD & then trimmed/adjusted [damn, how may commas I gotta put it one sentence ?! laugh ].
The frets are all better placed, e.g., than any gtr before 1980.

To me that makes them all equal outside their electronix.
Am I missing something ?
---------------

Of course that applies to electric gtrs.
Acs, uh, axes & ac/elec models have real timbral issues that exist in the real physical world...but really who cares abt that anymore ?
[ poke ]

------------------------------------------------------
Respectfully, I concede your point, to a point.[*]
While affordable Guitars, like upper-end Squiers & Epis or MIM Fenders, are much improved over what they once were, cheap Guitars are still cheaply made. Nobody is running a Plek machine for $99 Guitars, for example, and just because the bodies are cut to measure by machine doesn't mean there's a higher level of QC to go with the high-tech assembly line.

I've read of major issues with the cheaper Epiphone models, for example, (mis-aligned frets, bridges too far too one side for the strings to line up on the neck, headstock breaks in HSC's) and looking in the control cavity of a lower-priced Squier, one of the models that comes in a multi-pack with an Amp, I was amazed at the nasty crack through the center of the body; the trem cover hid it in back, the pick guard in front. Many factories would never have used that piece of wood as a one-piece body, but would have cut it into useable sections for a multi-piece body.


Ok, but alla those, save the body crack prob, woulda been evident to any potential buyer, eh ?
Woulda gone back to the factory in whatever the process is these days.
The fact that they got by the sleepers in the QC booth is bad .
Maybe they don't even look at some low end models.
idk

All I know is I've never had a prob w/ a modern electric gtr that I actually bought other than replacing the PUs, etc, which I almost always did anyway on any old gtr.
That plus the fact that prices for older gtrs don't seem anything like what the were once, has made me give up on any idea of a $300 "Holy Grail" waiting for me on the wall.

The next is a more pertinent point but also one that, I think, applies more to acs than elecs (more below)...
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Woods aren't all equal, either, even if they're called by the same names. Epiphone SG's (G400's) and LP's are usually made of "Eastern" Mahogany, or Nato, which isn't related to Mahogany, at all, but I've seen reports that they've been made of Alder, Mahogany, Lauan or God-knows-what, with Maple caps, Maple veneers, or all-"Mahogany", at various times, by various factories. Same with the new, affordable, D'Angelico's that are being advertised everywhere. Turns out they're made of Sapele (sp?), another tropical wood generally used in furniture; not true Mahogany, either.

It may be that these guys are, miraculously, able to sell a quality instrument at a bottom-feeder price. Never having had one of their Guitars in hand, I can't honestly say. I'm not yet willing to risk my money to find out, even though the B-stock SG style appeals to me, as well, even with the missing "T".


Here's what I do when evaluating a gtr.
I don't read anything abt it (since I don't look for newly designed models) or buy anything over the Net.
I pick the gtr up & play it in several specific ways.
If it seems lacking in intonation probs I ask to borrow it to hear it through some gear I know.
Since, for the most part, I'm already planning to alter it, the less expensive, the better, if the basic structure works.

Of course, that's just me.
I'm not looking for something new from the gtr, only from the gear through which it's playe.
------------------------------
[*] That should be = "I concede yer point, uh, to a point" laugh ]

-----------------------------------
------------------------------------
In a separate area....
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Originally Posted By: picker
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
I just have to wonder how they're able to make money at these prices? A decent set of pickups alone can cost more than any of these Guitars.


Maybe they can make money off these instruments because the prices of all guitars, especially the "prestige" brands, are wildly, ridiculously, unbelievably inflated. Perhaps these prices are what guitars ought to cost.


No argument there, brother. Looking at some of the new Gibson prices, I have to wonder who's paying nearly $5000 for an SG, and why?


One thing I'm sure hasn't changed from The Olden Days is that stores, esp those dealing w/ long term clients, don't make money on everything they sell.
They make money on the overall operation so a loss leader here/there is a customer service factor.
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#2865774 - 07/10/17 07:07 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: d]
skipclone 1 Online   content
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Well in any case, it`s hard to work up a lot of empathy or agreement when articles like this show up:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/...m=.4a0943fdd00b
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#2865788 - 07/10/17 08:05 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: skipclone 1]
whitefang Offline
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Since Skip brought up the "death of electric guitar" theme again, I do have one question....

How do ACOUSTIC sales compare to the electrics?

And yes, I realize they can't keep any guitar manufaturers afloat indefinitely, but I was just wondering. And since the LAST "new" guitar I ever bought was a relatively inexpensive Washburn 12, and THAT was 18 YEARS ago, I do feel empathy for those who, like many here, are afflicted with the rabid obsession of constantly buying, selling and "swapping out" their collection of guitars. I know the desire is for continual improvement, and that can't be accomplished if the newer products out there continue to NOT be up to "snuff".
Whitefang
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#2865807 - 07/10/17 08:48 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: whitefang]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: whitefang
Since Skip brought up the "death of electric guitar" theme again, I do have one question....

How do ACOUSTIC sales compare to the electrics?

And yes, I realize they can't keep any guitar manufaturers afloat indefinitely, but I was just wondering. And since the LAST "new" guitar I ever bought was a relatively inexpensive Washburn 12, and THAT was 18 YEARS ago, I do feel empathy for those who, like many here, are afflicted with the rabid obsession of constantly buying, selling and "swapping out" their collection of guitars. I know the desire is for continual improvement, and that can't be accomplished if the newer products out there continue to NOT be up to "snuff".
Whitefang


Two-part response - Acoustics seem to hold steady, but the "Taylor Swift effect" that's brought more girls and young women to the Guitar tends to favor Acoustic Guitars. It's also a lot easier to make cookie-cutter solid-body Electrics, which is responsible for the proliferation of cheap Electrics, IMHO.

As to your last, insightful remark, about seeking improvement, and not finding it in newer products, that's part of why I love used gear.

I figure any Guitar that's already withstood a few years of playing is probably going to hold up with good care; the real junkers don't last.

I'm not playing the inflated market price for whatever Gibson/Fender/Somebody is trying to push onto the market this season: If it's really any good, I'll be able to buy a nice used one in six months or so, for a lot less money.

A used Guitar is also likely to hold its value, if not increase, and I'm not afraid of getting the first ding on an otherwise pristine Instrument.
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#2865816 - 07/10/17 09:07 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Winston Psmith]
JuJu Kwan Offline
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My first guitar was a Strat copy, one of those you can purchase in bulk for less than a 100 USD, depending on how many to buy. I'm sure my father paid less than 100 USD for it. I got a cheap battery operated amp. I loved that cheap guitar, I kept by my bed and it was the last thing I saw at night and first thing I saw in the morning. I got my first guitar before I got my second guitar, I believe that is true of everyone.
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#2865821 - 07/10/17 09:18 AM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Winston Psmith]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
the "Taylor Swift effect" that's brought more girls and young women to the Guitar tends to favor Acoustic Guitars.


I think we need a new Chrissy Hynde to bring some attitude back to the lives of teen girls. And to let them know how cool Telecasters are.
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#2865983 - 07/10/17 04:39 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Scott Fraser]
JuJu Kwan Offline
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I wonder how many girls who bought a guitar because of Taylor Swift will ever buy another guitar. I also wonder how many bought the $329 signature model, or $129 look alike.
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#2866012 - 07/10/17 06:41 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Well, before there was Taylor Swift, there was Avril Levine. And before that, Jennifer Batten, Joan Jett and the ladies of Heart to name but a few. Some had signature guitars; all got more women playing guitars.

OTOH, we do also have St. Vincent, Jenn Wasner and Orianthi, all with their own signature guitars.
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#2866014 - 07/10/17 06:44 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Also, as a frequent gear buyer, I have to confess I don't sell much of anything. With the exception of a cello I "gave" to our church music director, I don't get rig of gear until I've well and truly killed it.

At least, I haven't so far. I'm not hard on my gear, truth be known- only my first guitar (an Alvarez starter acoustic) ever actually died.
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#2866038 - 07/10/17 08:35 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
Well, before there was Taylor Swift, there was Avril Levine. And before that, Jennifer Batten, Joan Jett and the ladies of Heart to name but a few. Some had signature guitars; all got more women playing guitars.
OTOH, we do also have St. Vincent, Jenn Wasner and Orianthi, all with their own signature guitars.


Can't overlook Bonnie Raitt.
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#2866041 - 07/10/17 08:54 PM Re: Like the look of these... [Re: Scott Fraser]
Larryz Offline
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Posts: 10192
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
Well, before there was Taylor Swift, there was Avril Levine. And before that, Jennifer Batten, Joan Jett and the ladies of Heart to name but a few. Some had signature guitars; all got more women playing guitars.
OTOH, we do also have St. Vincent, Jenn Wasner and Orianthi, all with their own signature guitars.


Can't overlook Bonnie Raitt.


and, our own Kaki King has a signature Ovation! cool
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Take care, Larryz

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