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#2862886 - 06/26/17 09:55 AM Ravenscroft 275 for iOS
Sven Golly Offline
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Okay, all you budding iPad rig players... just announced, Ravenscroft 275 for iOS.

https://www.uvi.net/ravenscroft-275-piano.html

Pertinent details:

SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS

Supported Operating System: iOS 9.3+
Works on:
- iPad 4 or newer
- iPhone 5 or newer (iPhone 6 or newer recommended)
- iPod Touch 6 or newer
883 MB of disk space

THIRD-PARTY SUPPORT

Inter-App Audio, Audio Unit v3 Plugin and Audiobus
External keyboard and MIDI-over-LAN support via CoreMIDI
Bluetooth MIDI Keyboard Compatible

$35.99 USD / $49.99 CAD
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#2862887 - 06/26/17 09:57 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Sven Golly]
Sven Golly Offline
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#2862891 - 06/26/17 10:31 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Sven Golly]
miden Offline
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thanks for the heads up SG smile
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#2862900 - 06/26/17 10:57 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: miden]
tfort Offline
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Appreciate the heads up. Mobile devices' move into music takes another (maybe big) step.

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#2862902 - 06/26/17 11:13 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: tfort]
Randelph Offline
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So, you Ravenscroft 275 users out there- whaddayatink?

I wonder if my iPad mini 2 will play it. Surprised they only need 833 MBs of space for so many samples. Looking forward to iOS reviews.
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#2862909 - 06/26/17 11:52 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Randelph]
PianoMan51 Offline
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Ravenscroft compressed their files a few years ago. On my Mac it's 5.72Gb.

Perhaps they've left out a bunch of the mic positions, each with their own set of samples. Even with that, it's an amazing feat.

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#2862911 - 06/26/17 12:06 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: PianoMan51]
Stokely Offline
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The phrase "My God, it's full of stars" comes to my head for some reason.

I'm inching ever closer to a partial ipad rig, possibly for guitar as well--which complicates matters as then I'd need an audio in, so many interfaces won't do it. Anyway though, this is really interesting.

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#2862912 - 06/26/17 12:08 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: PianoMan51]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Well alright then. iPad 4 or better is a decent starting point. Can't wait for what follows with the older iOS devices being phased out. This new iPad Pro is said to benchmark like last year's MacBook Pros on some tasks. As storage and RAM goes up too devs will take advantage quickly.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/9to5mac.com/2017/06/14/ipad-pro-versus-macbook-pro-speed-tests/amp/

I wonder if we'll ever see Apple allow AU or plugin architecture on iOS? They still don't permit AU/VST on the macOS app store.
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#2862920 - 06/26/17 12:56 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: ElmerJFudd]
miden Offline
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Being an owner of a current iPad Pro 12" model, I can attest that it is handling all my iOS synths with ease. Albeit they are not as intensive as Ravenscroft (yet to buy this one). It handles four instruments in Sampletank as well as either iGrand or iLectric concurrently without a glitch and really good latency (well none, really that I can notice).

The only thing I do notice is occasional note dropout (have to listen REALLY closely hahaha) but I suspect that is more to do with the polyphony of the app rather than the iPad OS and architecture.
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#2862926 - 06/26/17 01:28 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: miden]
Roland_Guy Offline
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Very nice! Now we just need a Mainstage or Gig performer type App to run all these synths. I am currently using AUM mixer and it's great, but does not have the customization that Mainstage has. It's clear Apple is phasing out the older iPads and soon only the 64 bit devices will be supported now that ios11 is on its way. So it will be interesting to see if the iPad gets desktop quality synths in the near future as I am sure the new iPad pros could handle easily.
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#2862931 - 06/26/17 01:37 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Roland_Guy]
miden Offline
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^^^^ +1 for adding Mainstage as an iOS app!
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#2862934 - 06/26/17 01:51 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: miden]
jeffinpghpa Offline
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What amount of polyphony could a current model iPad (not iPad Pro) support?
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#2862936 - 06/26/17 01:54 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: miden]
Reezekeys Offline
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Don't software developers usually try to maximize whatever processing power is available to them? Or are they more interested in providing apps that run on the widest range of available devices? The iPad Pro has been out for a while now but we haven't seen a Mainstage-like app yet. Either the tech is not quite there yet or devs are waiting for a larger installed base of devices that can handle the load. Something tells me it's gonna be a while, but I'm sure we'll get there.

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#2862939 - 06/26/17 02:12 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Reezekeys]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Those look like mini keys

I'll pass.


grin
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#2862941 - 06/26/17 02:23 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: EscapeRocks]
fjzingo Offline
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Sounds great, interestng they mention loseless flac engine which hints to the compression...
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#2863078 - 06/27/17 07:02 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Roland_Guy]
Sven Golly Offline
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Originally Posted By: Roland_Guy
Very nice! Now we just need a Mainstage or Gig performer type App to run all these synths.


It already exists, with Audiobus 3 and the MIDIflow modules.
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#2863085 - 06/27/17 07:36 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Reezekeys]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
Don't software developers usually try to maximize whatever processing power is available to them? Or are they more interested in providing apps that run on the widest range of available devices? The iPad Pro has been out for a while now but we haven't seen a Mainstage-like app yet. Either the tech is not quite there yet or devs are waiting for a larger installed base of devices that can handle the load. Something tells me it's gonna be a while, but I'm sure we'll get there.


Apple makes it a little hard for developers to take advantage of the newest hardware only, as they frown upon apps being device specific. But Apple does always recommend latest version of iOS and they do cut off iOS updates to older hardware. App developers have been very clever in the way they they've dealt with weak CPU, minuscule RAM, and limited storage. Unfortunately not always with the answers we want to hear like running the audio engine at lower sample rate, raising buffer/latency, keeping samples small and stretching, limiting voices of polyphony, etc. Either with active sensing of performance or by allowing users to alter settings whet things don't run well. But app purchasers can be scathing in their reviews on the app store when things don't run to their expectations... 0 stars Fail! can wreck sales and reputation fast and this can make small developers hesitant to put out a hardware intensive app.

Thankfully, every generation of the tablets has seen improvements to the hardware. So we have great things yet to come! Who knows what these creative minds will dream up for us! Audiobus and audio copy/paste midiFlow etc. were answers to shortcomings great devs came up with!
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#2863088 - 06/27/17 07:43 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Randelph]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Randelph
Surprised they only need 833 MBs of space for so many samples.

Just because it has the same name, that doesn't mean it's the same thing. I suspect it's as much the full Ravensoft as IOS Ivory (for Korg Module) is the full Ivory. I would not expect anything like the same experience as on their full Mac/Win implementation. It will be some subset, with a smaller sample set. (Of course, it can still be good... 833 mb for piano is still a whole lot more sample data than most hardware pianos have.)
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#2863105 - 06/27/17 08:51 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: AnotherScott]
Sven Golly Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Randelph
Surprised they only need 833 MBs of space for so many samples.

Just because it has the same name, that doesn't mean it's the same thing.


Well, duh. snax

(I know you know, Scott, and are only stating the painfully obvious... wink )
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#2863132 - 06/27/17 10:38 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Sven Golly]
Ashville.Guru Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sven Golly
Originally Posted By: Roland_Guy
Very nice! Now we just need a Mainstage or Gig performer type App to run all these synths.

It already exists, with Audiobus 3 and the MIDIflow modules.

SG, When you save a patch on MS and the like, internal state ("preset", but not quite) of each softsynth/plugin is saved as well - along with splits/layers. Is there an equivalent operation with Audiobus 3/MIDIflow?

I'm aware you can do it like old-school MIDI - via sending a bunch of PC/CC messages. MS and other hosts take it to the next level, where the musician doesn't even have to bother about all that. Heck, you don't even have to save presets on individual softsynths! Host patches remember the position of every control on every softsynth in the setup.

That's what I'm really intrigued about.

- Guru


Edited by Ashville.Guru (06/27/17 11:53 AM)
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#2863225 - 06/27/17 06:43 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Ashville.Guru]
Sven Golly Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ashville.Guru

SG, When you save a patch on MS and the like, internal state ("preset", but not quite) of each softsynth/plugin is saved as well - along with splits/layers. Is there an equivalent operation with Audiobus 3/MIDIflow?

I'm aware you can do it like old-school MIDI - via sending a bunch of PC/CC messages. MS and other hosts take it to the next level, where the musician doesn't even have to bother about all that. Heck, you don't even have to save presets on individual softsynths! Host patches remember the position of every control on every softsynth in the setup.

That's what I'm really intrigued about.

- Guru


Yes, AB3 can save the state of the apps within it. Of course, there may be situations where this MAY not work, depending on which apps you're running, but I'm not aware of any.

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#2863238 - 06/27/17 08:46 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: Randelph
Surprised they only need 833 MBs of space for so many samples.

Just because it has the same name, that doesn't mean it's the same thing. I suspect it's as much the full Ravensoft as IOS Ivory (for Korg Module) is the full Ivory. I would not expect anything like the same experience as on their full Mac/Win implementation. It will be some subset, with a smaller sample set. (Of course, it can still be good... 833 mb for piano is still a whole lot more sample data than most hardware pianos have.)


We can get a good idea of what's here from the product page. It's 833mb however it's compressed to FLAC - so perhaps more here than the size suggests with regard to how much stretching/thinning done or velocity layers removed. But, only one perspective (close) is included.
No Unacorda
No Half Pedal
No Mute Strikes
No Keys, pedal, sympathetic resonances volumes control
The convolution reverb has been replaced by a more CPU friendly SparkVerb from UVI
No precise tuning
Limited MIDI curve control

And even so, as already mentioned, iPad 4 is minimum spec.
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#2863259 - 06/27/17 11:58 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Sven Golly]
Ashville.Guru Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sven Golly
Yes, AB3 can save the state of the apps within it. Of course, there may be situations where this MAY not work, depending on which apps you're running, but I'm not aware of any.

Thanks for the heads up. I just checked out some of the videos and documentation on the State Saving feature of AB3. It does seem to bring things on par with laptop hosts - so long as apps comply with AB3 standard.

This is one more of the many reasons to celebrate being a keyboard player in this day and age. thu

- Guru
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#2863269 - 06/28/17 02:05 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Ashville.Guru]
Roland_Guy Offline
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A User Review. He runs it on iPad Air 2.

https://youtu.be/zDHVgEr9R0g
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#2863346 - 06/28/17 09:08 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Roland_Guy]
miden Offline
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$56 out here in Oz grin makes it probs one of the most expensive apps in the store!!

Be nice if they gave some sort of free note/time limited demo, especially a that price (for an iOS app). But it does look nice though wink
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#2863352 - 06/28/17 09:23 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: miden]
ahutnick Offline
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I noticed the user review person had the audio setting on 1028!Not good for normal piano playing

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#2863355 - 06/28/17 09:35 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Roland_Guy]
tfort Offline
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Thanks for the link to the review.

Youtube suggested other reviews of the Ravenscroft for iOS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSna00noinw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIDC-uJduXc

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#2863357 - 06/28/17 09:40 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: miden]
Sven Golly Offline
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Originally Posted By: miden
$56 out here in Oz grin makes it probs one of the most expensive apps in the store!!


Not even close.

Look up Yamaha's Professional Piano Tuning Application PT-A1.

You might want to be sitting down before you do so. snax

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#2863386 - 06/28/17 10:49 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Sven Golly]
Randelph Offline
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To answer my own question about whether it'll run on the iPad mini 2: it doesn't specify on app page, all it says is ipad 4 and up. The ipad 4 has the 6x chipset running a dual core at 1.4 hz , the iPad mini 2 has the apple 7 chipset running a dual core at 1.3 hz, they both have 1 GB of RAM.

So it appears it'll probably run, though someone who responded on the You Tube commments section said he had some hiccups with the iPad mini 2.
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#2863395 - 06/28/17 11:18 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Sven Golly]
miden Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sven Golly
Originally Posted By: miden
$56 out here in Oz grin makes it probs one of the most expensive apps in the store!!


Not even close.

Look up Yamaha's Professional Piano Tuning Application PT-A1.

You might want to be sitting down before you do so. snax



HeadPop OMG!! i stand corrected - $700!!!
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#2863480 - 06/28/17 04:09 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Randelph]
Giancarlo Robles Offline
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Originally Posted By: Randelph
To answer my own question about whether it'll run on the iPad mini 2: it doesn't specify on app page, all it says is ipad 4 and up. The ipad 4 has the 6x chipset running a dual core at 1.4 hz , the iPad mini 2 has the apple 7 chipset running a dual core at 1.3 hz, they both have 1 GB of RAM.

So it appears it'll probably run, though someone who responded on the You Tube commments section said he had some hiccups with the iPad mini 2.


I was the one who commented on the youtube video about the slight pops and crackling with the ipad mini 2. Just wanted to share a bit of my experience. It is by no means unplayable. Ravenscroft is very responsive IMO and the sound is excellent. I find it to be much better than any other iOS piano I've tried. The only problem I'm encountering is the pops when pushing the piano too hard. I tried to remedy it by lowering the latency (I started with 1.5ms latency just to test and went back from there). With 1.5 the pops and crackling is much more noticeabke but that is to be expected with an older ipad. However I kept going further back 2.5, then 5.2, then 11, then 22 and in all of those latency settings the pops are much less but the same in each. There was no noticeable difference as I went back. I was expecting the more the latency, the less the popping would occur. That is not the case. I did not go beyond the 22ms latency because I consider over 22 to be unplayable for any digital piano. I'm not sure of this is an app issue or if it is due to the ipad not having enough resources to handle such a load of data.
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#2863485 - 06/28/17 04:24 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Giancarlo Robles]
brenner13 Offline
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I too, noticed some small pops, usually while lots of loud and repeated notes are decaying. There was already an update for the software last night. Am busting out of the day job right now to run it through the wringer again.
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#2863492 - 06/28/17 05:02 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: brenner13]
Giancarlo Robles Offline
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Originally Posted By: brenner13
I too, noticed some small pops, usually while lots of loud and repeated notes are decaying. There was already an update for the software last night. Am busting out of the day job right now to run it through the wringer again.


Give us an update when you can brenner. I have not gotten home yet to download the update but will do ASAP. However, I would like to know your impressions on sound and playability.
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#2863494 - 06/28/17 05:09 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: miden]
Reezekeys Offline
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Probably the best piano on iOS right now, but the hyperbole in that "review" didn't convince me – especially with that 1024 buffer setting.

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#2863536 - 06/28/17 10:24 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Reezekeys]
ahutnick Offline
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I have an Ipad pro so I would be curious as to how well it works on it. The 1024 buffer setting is useless for piano playing.


Edited by ahutnick (06/28/17 10:25 PM)

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#2863559 - 06/29/17 04:38 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: ahutnick]
brenner13 Offline
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Still the same popping that Giancarlo aptly describes above. I'm no expert (about anything) and total guess on my part but it seems to happen mostly in the sympathetic string resonance samples / modeling, however is not all the time, nor it it easily or consistently reproducible. Definitely happens more at the lowest latency setting but not much difference between the others or even between 48kHz or 44.1kHz. I find 10ms latency workable but begins to intrude on the enjoyment...takes a lot of work to keep timing accurate. 5ms is vastly better for me.

I love the sound and velocity expressiveness of the app though. All of the available tweaking knobs should provide ample adjustment to find a good place in the mix. I think we might try it out with the band this weekend as the little clicks are subtle enough that it probably will not be noticed in a live setting.
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#2863620 - 06/29/17 07:03 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: brenner13]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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If you purchased on app store try contacting the developer directly with what your hearing before posting a nasty review (0 stars, clicks and pops, poor latency performance make it unusable) on the app store. Assuming you're following their recommendation of iPad 4 or better.

Bad reviews, low stars, will kill sales and devs ability to invest man hours in fixing. Although I was thinking once this FLAC sample player (based on UVI I would imagine) is up and running well on iOS. This means an awful lot of libraries can be ported which is great for the platform.

If they don't respond to the complaints with updates and fixes, then slam them. Can't have gold wasting their money on an app that's not being supported by the developers.
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#2863622 - 06/29/17 07:07 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: ElmerJFudd]
RudyS Offline
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Sounds ok. I am searching a way to upgrade the piano in my jazz/pop combo. I use the PX5s and find it a bit too thin. Wondering however if this is a big leap from the PX5s piano.

Maybe I should carry my macbook and buy a decent plug in.....
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#2863627 - 06/29/17 07:27 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: RudyS]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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The biggest issues with iOS devices as the platform will be getting low latency without dropouts, clicks and pops. Polyphony that you are happy with (especially when using the sustain pedal). 40 - 60 note is acceptable if the note stealing algorithm is effective - although if they are using voices to create pedal noise and sympathetic resonance that can eat up poly. And being able to have other music apps running and layering, splits, etc. if this app is a resource hog.

Obviously if you need Mainstage like performance for what you do, a MacBook Pro is a better pick.
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#2863673 - 06/29/17 10:18 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: ElmerJFudd]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Just checked in on the app store. They are busy, Tuesday, June 27 build that went live has:

Fix: unexpected behaviour with previous/next preset
Fix: compatibility update for some Kawai keyboards
Fix: Rate app link
Fix: Stability improvements

Keep sending them what they need to know.
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#2863677 - 06/29/17 10:24 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Fix: compatibility update for some Kawai keyboards

That's a surprise, I wonder what the Kawais were doing differently from other boards, MIDI-wise.
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#2863688 - 06/29/17 11:40 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: AnotherScott]
Roland_Guy Offline
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A comparison between the Desktop version and iOS version.

https://youtu.be/Q5jHSq5NgME
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#2863747 - 06/29/17 07:57 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: AnotherScott]
Kawai James Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Fix: compatibility update for some Kawai keyboards

That's a surprise, I wonder what the Kawais were doing differently from other boards, MIDI-wise.


Hmm...I'm not sure, but will try to find out.

I seem to recall some VPC1 customers experiencing an issue with the desktop version of Ravenscroft 275 whereby the software interpreted the Kawai action's triple-sensor velocity input as re-struck/ghost notes. This was corrected with a patch from VI Labs, so it could well be the case with this iOS version.

Cheers,
James
x
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#2863875 - 06/30/17 09:03 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Kawai James]
brenner13 Offline
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Well ran all of my iOS pianos through a gamut of warm-up / dexterity practice tonight, pushing hard to test their limits with full-fisted chordal arpeggios covering all octaves with the pedal rarely releasing. Its been hellish at work this week so the boards really took a pounding.

It may be partly because it is newest, but Ravenscroft is certainly my favorite one. Module's Ivory comes in a respectable 2nd place in my ranking, only narrowly edging out Colossus because of better tweakability. Although I sometimes absolutely love the quirky artifacts and tuning of Colossus, it can be challenging to really connect with it. The other two are a breeze to play.

CMP comes solidly in fourth place, however it can still fit nicely in a busy mix. Poor iGrand Piano suffers from being the oldest of the apps...good for its day, but simply outshined by the new kids.

Is it possible that software can require some "seating-in" time? The clicks and pops only happened a couple of times tonight and only when adjusting parameters or really slamming the keys machine-gun style. It is quite impressive how expressive and dynamic the tone is. The pedal noise is set quite nice...good thing because it is not adjustable. No other app has this that I know of. None other has sympathetic string resonance either, right?

Wow, it really does sound quite nice and plays better everytime I try it. Very anxious to see how it goes at the show tomorrow night.
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#2863879 - 06/30/17 11:09 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: brenner13]
ahutnick Offline
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Are you using an Ipad pro and also what buffer setting are you using? Thanks!

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#2863886 - 07/01/17 12:56 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Roland_Guy]
fjzingo Offline
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Interestingly the difference as presented in this youtube clip was really notable just using the built in speaker in my ipad pro. The desktop version being the more dynamic sounding more open and less compressed. These might be dependent on soundcard and ad/da. After all very impressive how long way the ipads come as a platform, now we only need mainstage for iPad and off course even better latency to not feel disconnected.

Originally Posted By: Roland_Guy
A comparison between the Desktop version and iOS version. .

https://youtu.be/Q5jHSq5NgME


Edited by fjzingo (07/01/17 01:20 AM)
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#2863917 - 07/01/17 06:17 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: ahutnick]
brenner13 Offline
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Originally Posted By: ahutnick
Are you using an Ipad pro and also what buffer setting are you using? Thanks!

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting to share my settings and hodge-podge iOS setup. Recently picked up a New iPad 128GB after several years watching more and more apps become unusable on the aged iPad2. I'm still in honeymoon mode and am thrilled to have all of these synth and music apps instantly available and working again.

The rig is a little embarrassing but it works: Alesis i\o Dock 1st gen with a 30-pin to Lightning adapter cable.

As for Ravenscroft, it is running 48kHz, buffering with 256 samples providing 5.3 ms latency. I like a brighter tone to help cut through with the rock band. EQ: Timber 2, High 5.7, Mid 1.2, Low 1.8. Reverb: Decay 0.30, Size 9.8m, Mix 13%. Velocity: 88% with a 38% curve. Of course I'm constantly tweaking these to mood and situation.

Also, because the Alesis is prone to easily distort I usually have to pull back each app's master volume a bit; this one works well around -3.42 dB.

Got to go practice some more, now. keys
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#2863987 - 07/01/17 11:54 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: brenner13]
brenner13 Offline
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Nope, the Kawai is the better gigging machine. The app kind of fizzles out on the top end in a live setting and while the timber changes nicely with velocity, volume does not quite kick in how I'm used to.. However I still feel the app could be the better recording instrument if they can sort out the clicks. Yep, they showed up briefly at the top of the first set, but didn't notice them again after the first song. Switched to the Kawai second and third set. It's just what I'm most comfortable with.
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#2864003 - 07/02/17 05:39 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: brenner13]
unitjazz Offline
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I have Ravenscroft 275 on my MBP, but would be interested in this for my iPad. What interface is needed to get the MIDI signal in to the iPad, and are you just using the headphone out jack? Or is there something carries MIDI and audio through the Lightning port on my iPad Air 2 ?
(Sorry to be technically illiterate. Never used my iPad for this kind of thing).
Thanx

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#2864007 - 07/02/17 06:24 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: unitjazz]
Sven Golly Offline
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Lots of threads about using the iPad in your rig here, take a look around so folks don't have to retype thousands of words... wink
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#2864018 - 07/02/17 08:13 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: unitjazz]
brenner13 Offline
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Originally Posted By: unitjazz
I have Ravenscroft 275 on my MBP, but would be interested in this for my iPad. What interface is needed to get the MIDI signal in to the iPad, and are you just using the headphone out jack? Or is there something carries MIDI and audio through the Lightning port on my iPad Air 2 ?
(Sorry to be technically illiterate. Never used my iPad for this kind of thing).
Thanx

It depends on the interface hardware, but just a few do have both midi and audio accessed through the lightning connection, Alesis I/O Dock ii for one, but there are opinions that the sound quality falls short of pristine.
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#2864020 - 07/02/17 08:27 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: unitjazz]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: unitjazz
I have Ravenscroft 275 on my MBP, but would be interested in this for my iPad. What interface is needed to get the MIDI signal in to the iPad

Just like everything else, there are numerous options with different features. The first important thing you have to know is whether your keyboard sends MIDI over a standard 5-pin DIN jack, or if it sends MIDI over USB (or both), so you know what kind of interface you are looking for.

Originally Posted By: unitjazz
are you just using the headphone out jack? Or is there something carries MIDI and audio through the Lightning port on my iPad Air 2 ?

You can do it either way.
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#2864021 - 07/02/17 08:29 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: brenner13]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6416
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Originally Posted By: brenner13
Originally Posted By: unitjazz
I have Ravenscroft 275 on my MBP, but would be interested in this for my iPad. What interface is needed to get the MIDI signal in to the iPad, and are you just using the headphone out jack? Or is there something carries MIDI and audio through the Lightning port on my iPad Air 2 ?
(Sorry to be technically illiterate. Never used my iPad for this kind of thing).
Thanx

It depends on the interface hardware, but just a few do have both midi and audio accessed through the lightning connection, Alesis I/O Dock ii for one, but there are opinions that the sound quality falls short of pristine.


^^^
The Alesis is nice because it gives you all the ports you need in one device that also holds the iPad securely (tilted toward you) and keeps it charged. The audio doesn't sound any worse than the 3.5mm out. Maybe a bit better.

http://www.alesis.com/products/legacy/io-dock-ii


Edited by ElmerJFudd (07/02/17 08:30 AM)
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#2864048 - 07/02/17 10:50 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: unitjazz]
miden Offline
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Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 2286
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: unitjazz
I have Ravenscroft 275 on my MBP, but would be interested in this for my iPad. What interface is needed to get the MIDI signal in to the iPad, and are you just using the headphone out jack? Or is there something carries MIDI and audio through the Lightning port on my iPad Air 2 ?
(Sorry to be technically illiterate. Never used my iPad for this kind of thing).
Thanx


Check out the iRig stuff from IK Multimedia. I use the iRig MIDI 2 ( http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigmidi2/ ) interface when using the laptop setup, and the iRig Pro 2 ( http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigproduo/ )when using just the iPad and SL88 as it does full stereo audio, with monitoring and MIDI in/out.
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#2864139 - 07/03/17 02:39 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: ElmerJFudd]
TomKittel Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 595
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted By: brenner13
Originally Posted By: unitjazz
I have Ravenscroft 275 on my MBP, but would be interested in this for my iPad. What interface is needed to get the MIDI signal in to the iPad, and are you just using the headphone out jack? Or is there something carries MIDI and audio through the Lightning port on my iPad Air 2 ?
(Sorry to be technically illiterate. Never used my iPad for this kind of thing).
Thanx

It depends on the interface hardware, but just a few do have both midi and audio accessed through the lightning connection, Alesis I/O Dock ii for one, but there are opinions that the sound quality falls short of pristine.


^^^
The Alesis is nice because it gives you all the ports you need in one device that also holds the iPad securely (tilted toward you) and keeps it charged. The audio doesn't sound any worse than the 3.5mm out. Maybe a bit better.



The Alesis IO Dock audio quality is mediocre at best. I am using a Korg PlugKey. Sounds great.

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#2885701 - 10/18/17 09:03 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: TomKittel]
RoadHousePiano Offline
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Registered: 10/12/08
Posts: 154
Loc: Long Island, NY
recently got the Ravenscroft app. Love the sound but I find that I have to run it, on my Ipad Air 2, with a 512 buffer. Anything less, and I start to get pops. Nothing major, but not something I want to hear in a live setting.
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#2885816 - 10/19/17 04:12 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: RoadHousePiano]
MalH Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
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Originally Posted By: RoadHousePiano
recently got the Ravenscroft app. Love the sound but I find that I have to run it, on my Ipad Air 2, with a 512 buffer. Anything less, and I start to get pops. Nothing major, but not something I want to hear in a live setting.


That's a shame as I'm considering this (I love playing the desktop version). Is there any way to customise such as turn off release samples or change sample rate?

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#2885871 - 10/19/17 07:53 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: MalH]
RoadHousePiano Offline
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Registered: 10/12/08
Posts: 154
Loc: Long Island, NY
Originally Posted By: MalH
Originally Posted By: RoadHousePiano
recently got the Ravenscroft app. Love the sound but I find that I have to run it, on my Ipad Air 2, with a 512 buffer. Anything less, and I start to get pops. Nothing major, but not something I want to hear in a live setting.


That's a shame as I'm considering this (I love playing the desktop version). Is there any way to customise such as turn off release samples or change sample rate?
I don't have it in front of me but I'm almost positive you can adjust the sample rate. Disabling the reverb seemed to help a bit as well. I will say that the 512 buffer seemed a lot more playable and responsive than trying to play at the same setting using my macbook and a piano VST. Might just be my imagination....but I wouldn't consider using any of my piano VSTs with a 512 buffer on my laptop. Also, there's probably some ways to optimize the ipad that I haven't tried yet, aside from airplane mode.
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#2885878 - 10/19/17 08:06 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: RoadHousePiano]
Reezekeys Offline
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Lower the sample rate, disable reverb, increase the buffer. Sounds like a lot to deal with just to get a playable piano, even if the samples themselves are gorgeous.

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#2885893 - 10/19/17 08:47 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Reezekeys]
keyman27 Offline
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Wouldn't a higher sample rate result in LESS latency?

Would the interface make a difference in latency? In other words, would there be any difference between using the little on-board headphone jack vs. an interface that connects via Lightning?

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#2885897 - 10/19/17 09:04 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: keyman27]
Reezekeys Offline
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Originally Posted By: keyman27
Wouldn't a higher sample rate result in LESS latency?

Would the interface make a difference in latency? In other words, would there be any difference between using the little on-board headphone jack vs. an interface that connects via Lightning?

Yes a higher sample rate would reduce latency, all other things being equal. But it also requires more processor juice. I mentioned lowering the sample rate as one of the steps taken to give the processor more headroom, to avoid buffer underruns.

I don't know the answer to your second question as I don't use iOS for anything music related other than listening to songs in my car. In the computer world interfaces do matter, as manufacturers often write their own drivers. I'm not sure if Apple gives iOS developers the same amount of latitude.

Personally I don't get hung up on numbers. I started years ago with a Mac G4 laptop rig at a 512 buffer and while I could feel some sluggishness on a few sounds (mostly those with percussive attacks) I was able to adapt to it. I think the question here is whether the portability and convenience of an iPad VI outweighs the compromises of possibly having to make these adjustments for trouble-free playing. For some I'm sure it will. A really good piano VI is a pretty demanding piece of software if you want low latency with no clicks & pops. I have no doubt there will be iPads in the coming years that'll equal the performance we get from our MacBook Pros and Windows laptops. Maybe the new iPad Pro is already there, I don't know.

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#2885918 - 10/19/17 10:13 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Reezekeys]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: RoadHousePiano
I will say that the 512 buffer seemed a lot more playable and responsive than trying to play at the same setting using my macbook and a piano VST. Might just be my imagination....but I wouldn't consider using any of my piano VSTs with a 512 buffer on my laptop.

At 44.1 kHz, 512 buffer = 11.6ms, that's fixed. It can't be any less. However, if there are other things that are contributing to latency, it can be more, as the different sources of latency will be additive.

In general (not specific to Ravenscroft or iOS), I find 256 acceptable, and 128 great. I would not enjoy playing piano at 512. If 512 was the best I could get in a given software environment, I'd trade-off sound quality if need be and play whatever piano sound is in my board.

Originally Posted By: Reezekeys
Lower the sample rate, disable reverb, increase the buffer. Sounds like a lot to deal with just to get a playable piano, even if the samples themselves are gorgeous.

The blessing and curse of iOS is that, really, there's very little you can do. Usually, a given app either works well enough for you or it doesn't. I doubt most people do anything more than try adjusting the buffer, and honestly, I'm not sure any other change would even make a difference. (The fact that someone here suggested something else doesn't tell us anything about the chances of it working. ;-) ) The ability to tweak the performance of an iPad is minimal. You can do a little more on a Mac. You can spend your life doing it in Windows. Or you buy a Kronos/Montage/Forte/Nord/whatever.

I assume the Ravenscroft makes more demands on an iPad than some other pianos do, which I would expect would at least impact its ability to play well with others if you're trying to run multiple apps at once, especially on a less modern iPad. But I'd be curious to know if people find that, on a given i-device, they actually need to set the buffer to a higher number than they do for other piano apps they've tried.

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#2932457 - 06/12/18 02:14 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: keyman27]
tfort Offline
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Registered: 05/06/16
Posts: 263
Ravenscroft 275 iOS is on sale for half off ($18) from today through June 18th.

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#2932529 - 06/13/18 05:53 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: keyman27]
Six-string-man Offline
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Registered: 08/06/13
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Just announced today AFAIK. App on 50% discount for five days. Offer closes Monday 18 June. If you were sitting onthe fence, now is your chance!
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#2932533 - 06/13/18 06:37 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Six-string-man]
Bobby Simons Offline
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Registered: 12/28/17
Posts: 502
Loc: Northport, L.I., NY
Already had R275, but I did grab that Beathawk app. Seems like it would pass the time on a flight or the train. Some of the IAP sound packs sound great. . .

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#2932587 - 06/13/18 10:44 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Bobby Simons]
Six-string-man Offline
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Registered: 08/06/13
Posts: 1484
Loc: U.K.
Originally Posted By: Bobby Simons
Already had R275, but I did grab that Beathawk app. Seems like it would pass the time on a flight or the train. Some of the IAP sound packs sound great. . .




I grabbed it too Bobby, and you're right, some of the sound packs sound wonderful. Trouble is, I spent over £60 in under 20 minutes........
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#2932600 - 06/13/18 11:57 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Six-string-man]
Bobby Simons Offline
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Registered: 12/28/17
Posts: 502
Loc: Northport, L.I., NY
Yeah. I'll wait until I actually start using it before I invest any more.

As it is, I already have so many great iOS apps that I hardly ever launch. It's the fatal attraction of these 10 buck synths - it seems silly not to buy them when you used to spend thousands for the same aural wonders. I'm collecting them like baseball cards - with all the effort of a scan of my thumbprint. Crazy.
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#2932788 - 06/14/18 01:50 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Bobby Simons]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Registered: 03/22/06
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Beathawk might be tied with Gadget for siphoning the most money out of my pocket via IAPs. Several months ago, there was a 50% off sale for Beathawk IAPs, so I bought the IAPs for flamenco, Indian music, Turkish music, etc.
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#2932821 - 06/14/18 05:30 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: GovernorSilver]
brenner13 Offline
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Posts: 1109
Loc: Kansas
Dang it! Just can't kick this app addiction. Really didn't need yet another beat-machine / music production app, but BeatHawk is dern cool.

Must...
Resist....
IAP's.......
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#2932874 - 06/15/18 03:09 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: GovernorSilver]
Six-string-man Offline
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Registered: 08/06/13
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Originally Posted By: GovernorSilver
Beathawk might be tied with Gadget for siphoning the most money out of my pocket via IAPs. Several months ago, there was a 50% off sale for Beathawk IAPs, so I bought the IAPs for flamenco, Indian music, Turkish music, etc.



You are the picture of restraint. There is a 50% sale atm, and I scrolled through the 40 odd soundbanks, thinking "Oh, that sounds good, it's only a couple of pounds.....". Before I knew what I'd done, I'd bought more than half of them.
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#2932954 - 06/15/18 12:15 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Six-string-man]
GovernorSilver Offline
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Here's the demo video that got me to buy the Spanish Gypsy IAP for Beathawk... quickly followed by other IAP purchases.

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