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#2863480 - 06/28/17 04:09 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Randelph]
Giancarlo Robles Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/03/14
Posts: 169
Originally Posted By: Randelph
To answer my own question about whether it'll run on the iPad mini 2: it doesn't specify on app page, all it says is ipad 4 and up. The ipad 4 has the 6x chipset running a dual core at 1.4 hz , the iPad mini 2 has the apple 7 chipset running a dual core at 1.3 hz, they both have 1 GB of RAM.

So it appears it'll probably run, though someone who responded on the You Tube commments section said he had some hiccups with the iPad mini 2.


I was the one who commented on the youtube video about the slight pops and crackling with the ipad mini 2. Just wanted to share a bit of my experience. It is by no means unplayable. Ravenscroft is very responsive IMO and the sound is excellent. I find it to be much better than any other iOS piano I've tried. The only problem I'm encountering is the pops when pushing the piano too hard. I tried to remedy it by lowering the latency (I started with 1.5ms latency just to test and went back from there). With 1.5 the pops and crackling is much more noticeabke but that is to be expected with an older ipad. However I kept going further back 2.5, then 5.2, then 11, then 22 and in all of those latency settings the pops are much less but the same in each. There was no noticeable difference as I went back. I was expecting the more the latency, the less the popping would occur. That is not the case. I did not go beyond the 22ms latency because I consider over 22 to be unplayable for any digital piano. I'm not sure of this is an app issue or if it is due to the ipad not having enough resources to handle such a load of data.
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#2863485 - 06/28/17 04:24 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Giancarlo Robles]
brenner13 Offline
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Loc: Kansas
I too, noticed some small pops, usually while lots of loud and repeated notes are decaying. There was already an update for the software last night. Am busting out of the day job right now to run it through the wringer again.
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#2863492 - 06/28/17 05:02 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: brenner13]
Giancarlo Robles Offline
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Registered: 12/03/14
Posts: 169
Originally Posted By: brenner13
I too, noticed some small pops, usually while lots of loud and repeated notes are decaying. There was already an update for the software last night. Am busting out of the day job right now to run it through the wringer again.


Give us an update when you can brenner. I have not gotten home yet to download the update but will do ASAP. However, I would like to know your impressions on sound and playability.
_________________________
Casio Privia PX-5S ::: DMC-122 with Gemini Module ::: Novation Launchkey 61 ::: Roland CM-30 Speaker ::: Ipad Mini 2 with a lot of apps for live playing (Korg Module, Galileo organ, Thumbjam, etc.)

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#2863494 - 06/28/17 05:09 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: miden]
Reezekeys Offline
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Registered: 02/07/11
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Loc: NYC area
Probably the best piano on iOS right now, but the hyperbole in that "review" didn't convince me especially with that 1024 buffer setting.

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#2863536 - 06/28/17 10:24 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Reezekeys]
ahutnick Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 102
Loc: san francisco bay area
I have an Ipad pro so I would be curious as to how well it works on it. The 1024 buffer setting is useless for piano playing.


Edited by ahutnick (06/28/17 10:25 PM)

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#2863559 - 06/29/17 04:38 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: ahutnick]
brenner13 Offline
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Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 1090
Loc: Kansas
Still the same popping that Giancarlo aptly describes above. I'm no expert (about anything) and total guess on my part but it seems to happen mostly in the sympathetic string resonance samples / modeling, however is not all the time, nor it it easily or consistently reproducible. Definitely happens more at the lowest latency setting but not much difference between the others or even between 48kHz or 44.1kHz. I find 10ms latency workable but begins to intrude on the enjoyment...takes a lot of work to keep timing accurate. 5ms is vastly better for me.

I love the sound and velocity expressiveness of the app though. All of the available tweaking knobs should provide ample adjustment to find a good place in the mix. I think we might try it out with the band this weekend as the little clicks are subtle enough that it probably will not be noticed in a live setting.
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#2863620 - 06/29/17 07:03 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: brenner13]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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If you purchased on app store try contacting the developer directly with what your hearing before posting a nasty review (0 stars, clicks and pops, poor latency performance make it unusable) on the app store. Assuming you're following their recommendation of iPad 4 or better.

Bad reviews, low stars, will kill sales and devs ability to invest man hours in fixing. Although I was thinking once this FLAC sample player (based on UVI I would imagine) is up and running well on iOS. This means an awful lot of libraries can be ported which is great for the platform.

If they don't respond to the complaints with updates and fixes, then slam them. Can't have gold wasting their money on an app that's not being supported by the developers.
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#2863622 - 06/29/17 07:07 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: ElmerJFudd]
RudyS Offline
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Sounds ok. I am searching a way to upgrade the piano in my jazz/pop combo. I use the PX5s and find it a bit too thin. Wondering however if this is a big leap from the PX5s piano.

Maybe I should carry my macbook and buy a decent plug in.....
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#2863627 - 06/29/17 07:27 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: RudyS]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6315
Loc: USA, greater NY area
The biggest issues with iOS devices as the platform will be getting low latency without dropouts, clicks and pops. Polyphony that you are happy with (especially when using the sustain pedal). 40 - 60 note is acceptable if the note stealing algorithm is effective - although if they are using voices to create pedal noise and sympathetic resonance that can eat up poly. And being able to have other music apps running and layering, splits, etc. if this app is a resource hog.

Obviously if you need Mainstage like performance for what you do, a MacBook Pro is a better pick.
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#2863673 - 06/29/17 10:18 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: ElmerJFudd]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6315
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Just checked in on the app store. They are busy, Tuesday, June 27 build that went live has:

Fix: unexpected behaviour with previous/next preset
Fix: compatibility update for some Kawai keyboards
Fix: Rate app link
Fix: Stability improvements

Keep sending them what they need to know.
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#2863677 - 06/29/17 10:24 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Fix: compatibility update for some Kawai keyboards

That's a surprise, I wonder what the Kawais were doing differently from other boards, MIDI-wise.
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#2863688 - 06/29/17 11:40 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: AnotherScott]
Roland_Guy Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/19/13
Posts: 38
Loc: South Africa
A comparison between the Desktop version and iOS version.

https://youtu.be/Q5jHSq5NgME
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#2863747 - 06/29/17 07:57 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: AnotherScott]
Kawai James Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 01/09/13
Posts: 1133
Loc: Hamamatsu, Japan
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Fix: compatibility update for some Kawai keyboards

That's a surprise, I wonder what the Kawais were doing differently from other boards, MIDI-wise.


Hmm...I'm not sure, but will try to find out.

I seem to recall some VPC1 customers experiencing an issue with the desktop version of Ravenscroft 275 whereby the software interpreted the Kawai action's triple-sensor velocity input as re-struck/ghost notes. This was corrected with a patch from VI Labs, so it could well be the case with this iOS version.

Cheers,
James
x
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#2863875 - 06/30/17 09:03 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Kawai James]
brenner13 Offline
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Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 1090
Loc: Kansas
Well ran all of my iOS pianos through a gamut of warm-up / dexterity practice tonight, pushing hard to test their limits with full-fisted chordal arpeggios covering all octaves with the pedal rarely releasing. Its been hellish at work this week so the boards really took a pounding.

It may be partly because it is newest, but Ravenscroft is certainly my favorite one. Module's Ivory comes in a respectable 2nd place in my ranking, only narrowly edging out Colossus because of better tweakability. Although I sometimes absolutely love the quirky artifacts and tuning of Colossus, it can be challenging to really connect with it. The other two are a breeze to play.

CMP comes solidly in fourth place, however it can still fit nicely in a busy mix. Poor iGrand Piano suffers from being the oldest of the apps...good for its day, but simply outshined by the new kids.

Is it possible that software can require some "seating-in" time? The clicks and pops only happened a couple of times tonight and only when adjusting parameters or really slamming the keys machine-gun style. It is quite impressive how expressive and dynamic the tone is. The pedal noise is set quite nice...good thing because it is not adjustable. No other app has this that I know of. None other has sympathetic string resonance either, right?

Wow, it really does sound quite nice and plays better everytime I try it. Very anxious to see how it goes at the show tomorrow night.
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#2863879 - 06/30/17 11:09 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: brenner13]
ahutnick Offline
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Registered: 08/14/05
Posts: 102
Loc: san francisco bay area
Are you using an Ipad pro and also what buffer setting are you using? Thanks!

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#2863886 - 07/01/17 12:56 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Roland_Guy]
fjzingo Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 01/26/04
Posts: 1090
Loc: Gothenburg, Sweden
Interestingly the difference as presented in this youtube clip was really notable just using the built in speaker in my ipad pro. The desktop version being the more dynamic sounding more open and less compressed. These might be dependent on soundcard and ad/da. After all very impressive how long way the ipads come as a platform, now we only need mainstage for iPad and off course even better latency to not feel disconnected.

Originally Posted By: Roland_Guy
A comparison between the Desktop version and iOS version. .

https://youtu.be/Q5jHSq5NgME


Edited by fjzingo (07/01/17 01:20 AM)
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#2863917 - 07/01/17 06:17 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: ahutnick]
brenner13 Offline
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Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 1090
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: ahutnick
Are you using an Ipad pro and also what buffer setting are you using? Thanks!

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting to share my settings and hodge-podge iOS setup. Recently picked up a New iPad 128GB after several years watching more and more apps become unusable on the aged iPad2. I'm still in honeymoon mode and am thrilled to have all of these synth and music apps instantly available and working again.

The rig is a little embarrassing but it works: Alesis i\o Dock 1st gen with a 30-pin to Lightning adapter cable.

As for Ravenscroft, it is running 48kHz, buffering with 256 samples providing 5.3 ms latency. I like a brighter tone to help cut through with the rock band. EQ: Timber 2, High 5.7, Mid 1.2, Low 1.8. Reverb: Decay 0.30, Size 9.8m, Mix 13%. Velocity: 88% with a 38% curve. Of course I'm constantly tweaking these to mood and situation.

Also, because the Alesis is prone to easily distort I usually have to pull back each app's master volume a bit; this one works well around -3.42 dB.

Got to go practice some more, now. keys
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#2863987 - 07/01/17 11:54 PM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: brenner13]
brenner13 Offline
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Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 1090
Loc: Kansas
Nope, the Kawai is the better gigging machine. The app kind of fizzles out on the top end in a live setting and while the timber changes nicely with velocity, volume does not quite kick in how I'm used to.. However I still feel the app could be the better recording instrument if they can sort out the clicks. Yep, they showed up briefly at the top of the first set, but didn't notice them again after the first song. Switched to the Kawai second and third set. It's just what I'm most comfortable with.
_________________________
Gig: Roland VR09, Fantom X7, AX09; Numa Compact2; QSC K12; JBL PRX615M
Studio: Korg MS2000R; Roland JX10, S550; Yamaha SY77, SY55, EX5; DM12; ES100
https://soundcloud.com/brad-renner

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#2864003 - 07/02/17 05:39 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: brenner13]
unitjazz Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 64
I have Ravenscroft 275 on my MBP, but would be interested in this for my iPad. What interface is needed to get the MIDI signal in to the iPad, and are you just using the headphone out jack? Or is there something carries MIDI and audio through the Lightning port on my iPad Air 2 ?
(Sorry to be technically illiterate. Never used my iPad for this kind of thing).
Thanx

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#2864007 - 07/02/17 06:24 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: unitjazz]
Sven Golly Offline
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Lots of threads about using the iPad in your rig here, take a look around so folks don't have to retype thousands of words... wink
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#2864018 - 07/02/17 08:13 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: unitjazz]
brenner13 Offline
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Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 1090
Loc: Kansas
Originally Posted By: unitjazz
I have Ravenscroft 275 on my MBP, but would be interested in this for my iPad. What interface is needed to get the MIDI signal in to the iPad, and are you just using the headphone out jack? Or is there something carries MIDI and audio through the Lightning port on my iPad Air 2 ?
(Sorry to be technically illiterate. Never used my iPad for this kind of thing).
Thanx

It depends on the interface hardware, but just a few do have both midi and audio accessed through the lightning connection, Alesis I/O Dock ii for one, but there are opinions that the sound quality falls short of pristine.
_________________________
Gig: Roland VR09, Fantom X7, AX09; Numa Compact2; QSC K12; JBL PRX615M
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#2864020 - 07/02/17 08:27 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: unitjazz]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: unitjazz
I have Ravenscroft 275 on my MBP, but would be interested in this for my iPad. What interface is needed to get the MIDI signal in to the iPad

Just like everything else, there are numerous options with different features. The first important thing you have to know is whether your keyboard sends MIDI over a standard 5-pin DIN jack, or if it sends MIDI over USB (or both), so you know what kind of interface you are looking for.

Originally Posted By: unitjazz
are you just using the headphone out jack? Or is there something carries MIDI and audio through the Lightning port on my iPad Air 2 ?

You can do it either way.
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#2864021 - 07/02/17 08:29 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: brenner13]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 6315
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Originally Posted By: brenner13
Originally Posted By: unitjazz
I have Ravenscroft 275 on my MBP, but would be interested in this for my iPad. What interface is needed to get the MIDI signal in to the iPad, and are you just using the headphone out jack? Or is there something carries MIDI and audio through the Lightning port on my iPad Air 2 ?
(Sorry to be technically illiterate. Never used my iPad for this kind of thing).
Thanx

It depends on the interface hardware, but just a few do have both midi and audio accessed through the lightning connection, Alesis I/O Dock ii for one, but there are opinions that the sound quality falls short of pristine.


^^^
The Alesis is nice because it gives you all the ports you need in one device that also holds the iPad securely (tilted toward you) and keeps it charged. The audio doesn't sound any worse than the 3.5mm out. Maybe a bit better.

http://www.alesis.com/products/legacy/io-dock-ii


Edited by ElmerJFudd (07/02/17 08:30 AM)
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#2864048 - 07/02/17 10:50 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: unitjazz]
miden Offline
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Registered: 01/30/06
Posts: 2233
Loc: Australia
Originally Posted By: unitjazz
I have Ravenscroft 275 on my MBP, but would be interested in this for my iPad. What interface is needed to get the MIDI signal in to the iPad, and are you just using the headphone out jack? Or is there something carries MIDI and audio through the Lightning port on my iPad Air 2 ?
(Sorry to be technically illiterate. Never used my iPad for this kind of thing).
Thanx


Check out the iRig stuff from IK Multimedia. I use the iRig MIDI 2 ( http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigmidi2/ ) interface when using the laptop setup, and the iRig Pro 2 ( http://www.ikmultimedia.com/products/irigproduo/ )when using just the iPad and SL88 as it does full stereo audio, with monitoring and MIDI in/out.
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#2864139 - 07/03/17 02:39 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: ElmerJFudd]
TomKittel Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 584
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Originally Posted By: brenner13
Originally Posted By: unitjazz
I have Ravenscroft 275 on my MBP, but would be interested in this for my iPad. What interface is needed to get the MIDI signal in to the iPad, and are you just using the headphone out jack? Or is there something carries MIDI and audio through the Lightning port on my iPad Air 2 ?
(Sorry to be technically illiterate. Never used my iPad for this kind of thing).
Thanx

It depends on the interface hardware, but just a few do have both midi and audio accessed through the lightning connection, Alesis I/O Dock ii for one, but there are opinions that the sound quality falls short of pristine.


^^^
The Alesis is nice because it gives you all the ports you need in one device that also holds the iPad securely (tilted toward you) and keeps it charged. The audio doesn't sound any worse than the 3.5mm out. Maybe a bit better.



The Alesis IO Dock audio quality is mediocre at best. I am using a Korg PlugKey. Sounds great.

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#2885701 - 10/18/17 09:03 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: TomKittel]
RoadHousePiano Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/12/08
Posts: 154
Loc: Long Island, NY
recently got the Ravenscroft app. Love the sound but I find that I have to run it, on my Ipad Air 2, with a 512 buffer. Anything less, and I start to get pops. Nothing major, but not something I want to hear in a live setting.
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#2885816 - 10/19/17 04:12 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: RoadHousePiano]
MalH Offline
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Registered: 08/05/07
Posts: 138
Loc: Switzerland
Originally Posted By: RoadHousePiano
recently got the Ravenscroft app. Love the sound but I find that I have to run it, on my Ipad Air 2, with a 512 buffer. Anything less, and I start to get pops. Nothing major, but not something I want to hear in a live setting.


That's a shame as I'm considering this (I love playing the desktop version). Is there any way to customise such as turn off release samples or change sample rate?

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#2885871 - 10/19/17 07:53 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: MalH]
RoadHousePiano Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/12/08
Posts: 154
Loc: Long Island, NY
Originally Posted By: MalH
Originally Posted By: RoadHousePiano
recently got the Ravenscroft app. Love the sound but I find that I have to run it, on my Ipad Air 2, with a 512 buffer. Anything less, and I start to get pops. Nothing major, but not something I want to hear in a live setting.


That's a shame as I'm considering this (I love playing the desktop version). Is there any way to customise such as turn off release samples or change sample rate?
I don't have it in front of me but I'm almost positive you can adjust the sample rate. Disabling the reverb seemed to help a bit as well. I will say that the 512 buffer seemed a lot more playable and responsive than trying to play at the same setting using my macbook and a piano VST. Might just be my imagination....but I wouldn't consider using any of my piano VSTs with a 512 buffer on my laptop. Also, there's probably some ways to optimize the ipad that I haven't tried yet, aside from airplane mode.
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#2885878 - 10/19/17 08:06 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: RoadHousePiano]
Reezekeys Offline
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Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 2793
Loc: NYC area
Lower the sample rate, disable reverb, increase the buffer. Sounds like a lot to deal with just to get a playable piano, even if the samples themselves are gorgeous.

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#2885893 - 10/19/17 08:47 AM Re: Ravenscroft 275 for iOS [Re: Reezekeys]
keyman27 Offline
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Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 453
Loc: United States
Wouldn't a higher sample rate result in LESS latency?

Would the interface make a difference in latency? In other words, would there be any difference between using the little on-board headphone jack vs. an interface that connects via Lightning?

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