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#2867294 - 07/16/17 03:34 PM Re: Roland FA-07 [Re: Sven Golly]
jeffinpghpa Online   content
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Is there a ship date announced for the FA-07 yet?
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#2867297 - 07/16/17 03:55 PM Re: Roland FA-07 [Re: jeffinpghpa]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Musicians Friend is showing an estimated ship date of Aug 4. For whatever that's worth...
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#2867394 - 07/17/17 08:01 AM Re: Roland FA-07 [Re: AnotherScott]
EscapeRocks Online   content
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Musicians Friend is showing an estimated ship date of Aug 4. For whatever that's worth...


A few of the major online players are showing the same thing give or take a couple days.
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#2867511 - 07/17/17 03:43 PM Re: Roland FA-07 [Re: EscapeRocks]
Marillo Offline
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I wonder if the TP-9 keybed will work for piano? I played a Jupiter-50 at the w/end and think I could manage it on that, although the 80 underneath was worse.

If it's closer to the 50 it might just work.

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#2867516 - 07/17/17 04:18 PM Re: Roland FA-07 [Re: Marillo]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: Marillo
I wonder if the TP-9 keybed will work for piano?

There are variations of the TP9. The P used in the Numa Compact is not bad for piano (as non-hammer actions go); but I would not be as optimistic assuming it's indeed the S version from boards like the Kurz PC361. But you know, sometimes some version of an action can surprise you, and be better than you expect from past experience (or worse)... whether due to a different software implementation or a subtle change to the design that didn't justify a new model number, I don't know, but you can't assume that every action with a particular designation will feel the same. (And that doesn't even take into account unit-to-unit manufacturing variation, perhaps from sourcing components from different suppliers, I don't know, but that's something I've experienced as well.)
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#2867635 - 07/18/17 10:32 AM Re: Roland FA-07 [Re: AnotherScott]
ApprenticeGary Offline
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A fatar action seems more like a response to the complaints for Fa 06's, instead of a purposeful upgrade.


Edited by ApprenticeGary (07/18/17 10:32 AM)
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#2867637 - 07/18/17 10:54 AM Re: Roland FA-07 [Re: ApprenticeGary]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ApprenticeGary
A fatar action seems more like a response to the complaints for Fa 06's, instead of a purposeful upgrade.

or it could be as simple as that being the least expensive 76-key action currently available to them. It may be our good fortune that the FA-06 action doesn't exist in a bigger-than-61 key version, and having decided they wanted an FA-07, the time/expense of tooling up to create such an action may have made it sensible to evaluate other options, in-house and elsewhere. But it's all speculation. (Though if they wanted to be responsive to complaints about the Jupiter50 and the FA as commonly found online at least, they might have added aftertouch while they were at it. If it is a TP9, it is available with AT.)
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#2867641 - 07/18/17 11:36 AM Re: Roland FA-07 [Re: AnotherScott]
stoken6 Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
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I find it interesting that they didn't use an inhouse action (J50 for example) but went out to a third-party product. Wonder why?

Cheers Mike
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#2867643 - 07/18/17 11:56 AM Re: Roland FA-07 [Re: AnotherScott]
Sven Golly Offline
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Originally Posted By: stoken6
I find it interesting that they didn't use an inhouse action (J50 for example) but went out to a third-party product. Wonder why?

Cheers Mike


Allow me.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
or it could be as simple as that being the least expensive 76-key action currently available to them.


snax
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#2867652 - 07/18/17 12:25 PM Re: Roland FA-07 [Re: Sven Golly]
stoken6 Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
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Originally Posted By: Sven Golly
Allow me.
Got it first time, thanks Sven thu

If Scott is right, and Fatar's action (including Fatar's profit margin) is cheaper than Roland's own at-cost action, then I'm surprised.

(To pre-empt a load of replies, yes I can imagine a situation where Roland's "action department" is a profit centre, and so there's a cross-charge from the "instruments department" to the "action department" which includes a profit margin. And Roland Instruments found it cheaper to buy from Fatar including Fatar's margin, than from Roland Actions including Roland Action's profit margin).

In any event, always nice to see a decent action on a 76 board.

Cheers, Mike.
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#2867665 - 07/18/17 02:00 PM Re: Roland FA-07 [Re: stoken6]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: stoken6
If Scott is right, and Fatar's action (including Fatar's profit margin) is cheaper than Roland's own at-cost action, then I'm surprised.

(To pre-empt a load of replies, yes I can imagine a situation where Roland's "action department" is a profit centre, and so there's a cross-charge from the "instruments department" to the "action department" which includes a profit margin. And Roland Instruments found it cheaper to buy from Fatar including Fatar's margin, than from Roland Actions including Roland Action's profit margin).

Yes, but there are other possible scenarios as well. The Fatar design could be inherently cheaper to build based on mechanics, or Fatar's parts costs. Or based on where they're built, Fatar could have a lower cost of labor; or have some custom automation that eliminates what could otherwise be a more labor-intensive process for someone else. Or Fatar could own certain technology (patents) that lower their cost compared to companies that must license similar tech. Also, availability can be as important as price. Roland could have determined that it would take x amount of time to manufacture enough new actions to bring the board to market, and Fatar could have been equipped to get them what they needed more quickly. There's also questions of allocations of resources. For example, short of building a new manufacturing facility, producing a new action within existing lines of production could impact Roland's ability to produce as many as they need of the other actions they are already building. There are so many variables to these things... like I said, plenty of room for speculation. ;-)
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#2867670 - 07/18/17 02:17 PM Re: Roland FA-07 [Re: AnotherScott]
stoken6 Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
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+1 Scott - I like this debate!

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
The Fatar design could be inherently cheaper
Indeed, although given the volumes of keyboard actions produced by both companies, I would have expected them to drift down to similar cost bases. Otherwise Roland would have outsourced actions long ago. Just like Kurz and Nord have done, for example.

Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Also, availability can be as important as price.
I can't deny it, although this doesn't feel like "big launch" flagship board that absolutely had to make a launch deadline. The suspicious part of me wondered if Roland had shutdown their "premium synth action" capacity after disappointing sales of the J80/J50 (remember the Fantom G7 had been discontinued long before that), and then decided to launch the FA07 after making that decision.

Quote:
like I said, plenty of room for speculation. ;-)
twothumbs

Cheers, Mike.
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#2867697 - 07/18/17 03:52 PM Re: Roland FA-07 [Re: stoken6]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: stoken6
given the volumes of keyboard actions produced by both companies, I would have expected them to drift down to similar cost bases. Otherwise Roland would have outsourced actions long ago. Just like Kurz and Nord have done, for example.

I'm not sure Kurz or Nord have ever manufactured their own actions. Maybe Kurz back in the Midiboard days? But I suppose the cheaper boards get, the harder it is for a small company to be able to cost-effectively make for themselves what other companies specialize in.

As for similar cost bases, even Fatar themselves have a variety of actions at (presumably) a variety of prices. I don't know what determines pricing in this case, but it's usually a combination of factors... actual cost to manufacture; amortization of one-time fabrication costs; and competitively what the market will bear/justify... But it's obviously possible that it can be cost effective for a company to make certain actions themselves, while outsourcing others.
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#2867702 - 07/18/17 04:13 PM Re: Roland FA-07 [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Fatar is providing so many actions for so many keyboard manufacturers, they may very well have bested even Roland at the economy of scale. It's not a great development if it means less competition, less innovation, and actions are no longer a differentiating feature between keyboard developers. On the other hand, it may bring cost down to for end user. However, in this scenario a TP-09 plays much better than the action Roland stuck on the FA-06. Yet in weighted hammer designs, thank goodness Kawai, Yamaha and Roland still duke it out. Korg... no comment. wink
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