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#2854644 - 05/10/17 03:28 PM Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever.
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4379
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. I have been playing one of my tunes Good Luck Cowboy which I recorded years ago. I play it every 3rd day and have been doing so for at least 12 years (I have 3 sets of different tunes that I practice, one a day). And every single time I miss some notes in the solo's, I have had a mental block or something. It is a country chicken picken type of tune, lots of notes in a major pentatonic scale. This day I got it right for the first time ever. As I started the solo, I said to myself; relax the picking hand so I did, and viola, I got 'er done. Goes to show the old adage is right; if at first you don't succeed try and try again. It only took me about 1500 tries, now to see if I can duplicate it in 3 days.

http://www.soundclick.com/html5/v3/player.cfm?type=single&songid=12677369&q=hi&newref=1
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If it sounds good, it is good !!
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Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick

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#2854667 - 05/10/17 06:02 PM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: desertbluesman]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Congratulations! I know how it can be, working on something that's been elusive and frustrating. And fortunately, I also know how it can be to finally make that breakthrough and get it right!

Another old adage- practice it until you can't get it wrong.
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#2854668 - 05/10/17 06:20 PM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Northern California
It's always a good thing when you start climbing above that plateau and finally find what you've been after for so long! Congrats DBM! thu
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#2854672 - 05/10/17 06:43 PM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: Larryz]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4379
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
Thanks both of you. Now on to the next challenge repeating that.
_________________________
dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick

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#2854873 - 05/11/17 03:34 PM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: desertbluesman]
harvey Offline
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Loc: Sydney, Australia
This is great! Good on your for your diligent and tenacious routine!

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#2854932 - 05/12/17 05:10 AM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: harvey]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
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Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
I think what DBM was saying was that he found himself not able to play something of his OWN that he's played so many times before. Which musically is like forgetting the lyrics to a song YOU wrote! Not like "climbing above that plateau", but rather, getting back UP TO it.

I'm familiar with BOTH of those frustrations. And it IS a great feeling when(if it does) it all comes back. smile

On the other hand, the way he worded the OP does kind of make it seem like he's NEVER played it "right"---"...I recorded years ago", "I play it every 3rd day....every single time I miss some notes in the solos"

I dunno. That's the way I took it.
Whitefang
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#2854966 - 05/12/17 07:29 AM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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http://hubguitar.com/articles/guitar-plateau-how-to-jumpstart-progress <---here's an interesting article for you Fang, on "climbing above that plateau"...I took it as he "nailed it for the first time ever". He had a "mental block or something" until he concentrated on relaxing his picking hand. After 1,500 tries, he finally got what he has been hearing in his mind. He was still involved in writing that solo and was not going to give up until he got it the way he wanted it. He knew he had the chops to make it work and finally made it happen. "The first time ever"...that's the way I took it...

I have had that similar feeling and worked and worked and worked on a line until I finally got it just the way I wanted it. Then one day after playing it 1,500 times, I heard something new in my little pea brain that I liked even better. Then, I forgot how I used to play it LOL! coffee

ps. I have forgot more than I will ever know LOL!


Edited by Larryz (05/12/17 07:32 AM)
Edit Reason: ps.
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#2855079 - 05/12/17 07:54 PM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: Larryz]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4379
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
Originally Posted By: Larryz
I took it as he "nailed it for the first time ever". He had a "mental block or something" until he concentrated on relaxing his picking hand. After 1,500 tries, he finally got what he has been hearing in his mind. He was still involved in writing that solo and was not going to give up until he got it the way he wanted it. He knew he had the chops to make it work and finally made it happen. "The first time ever"...that's the way I took it...

No Ceegar Larryz. When I recorded it I played it improvised in, improvisation is my forte, the reason I could not repeat cleanly it is; I do not practice enough to play repeated things that well. I have been doing my scales a bit more lately, and playing at least an hour to an hour and a half daily. There was no mental block, it is relatively simple to play on that level, practicing is the only way to get there. And I was simply not practicing enough. I am also older & I have old age memory problems forming, and memory problems do reach the "fingers memory" as well. It is simple "If you wanna get to Carnage Hall, Practice, Practice, Practice......
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dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick

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#2855104 - 05/12/17 10:43 PM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: desertbluesman]
Larryz Offline
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Loc: Northern California
"I have been playing one of my tunes Good Luck Cowboy which I recorded years ago. I play it every 3rd day and have been doing so for at least 12 years (I have 3 sets of different tunes that I practice, one a day). And every single time I miss some notes in the solo's, I have had a mental block or something." DBM.

This is why I commented on your having a mental block or something DBM...I refer to it as having senior moments and/or reaching a plateau LOL! +1 as I get older, I too have old age memory problems (to include muscle memory). In the article I posted, I think you'll find practice, practice practice is a top recommendation for overcoming plateaus. The difference is that in addition to your regular practice, you focus on that thing that is giving you a problem for some reason. I love improvisation too and it leads me to new discoveries. One of the big problems when it comes to improvisation, is so much of it was lost due to the lack of recordings. Some Jazz clubs finally got the idea of not losing it all and started recording it. It was not easy for many artists to duplicate the original recordings again as improvisation is intended to be in the moment. It can be learned and remembered and played back note for note, but then it becomes a practiced solo which may have come from improvisation. That's why I say I have forgotten more than I will ever know.

What happens when you take something you improvised and then you write it down? It is/was improvisation, but now it has become something you wrote as opposed to a free style on the fly improv that got captured on a recording device. It may very well be worth repeating note for note. The only problem is when you first played it, you may have exceeded yourself. Now you have to recapture it and it is frustrating when you just can't get it right the way you initially thought of it.

I read an interesting article or heard it in an interview with Lindsey Buckingham of Fleetwood Mac. He had to go back and re-learn all of his own licks and leads that got recorded as he wanted to duplicate the original sounds he got in the studio when playing before a live audience. It took a lot of experimentation and practice to do it the way the solo and the sound landed on the record. He was talking about his on stage rig and why he has many different amps/speakers/etc., up there...

anyway, those are just a few of my thoughts on improv...which is also my forte... cool


Edited by Larryz (05/13/17 10:48 AM)
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#2855107 - 05/13/17 04:37 AM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9882
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
As you always claim to NOT be a "like the record" guy, I'd imagine that would also mean even if it was one of YOUR records! wink One thing I could relate....

Me and a buddy went to Detroit's Olympia stadium to see CREAM during one of their several "farewell" tours. Noticed straight off when they did "Crossroads", Clapton's solo was NOT what he played on the live recording pressed on the WHEELS OF FIRE album.

We weren't disappointed however, because what he DID play was equally fantastic. wink
( a bit of "derail" concerning Olympia)

When The Beatles finally came to Detroit in '64, they played at Detroit's old Olympia stadium. It was the place where the Detroit Red Wings played hockey. Now, FF to about 2002 or so. I saw Paul McCartney on TV talking about some of his and The Beatles tunes, and he was holding an old Epiphone Western acoustic. On the guitar was a sticker of the "winged wheel" symbol of the Red Wing team. I saw it and imagined he might have found a sticker of it lying around Olympia when they were there, or got one offered to him( and all of them) by Olympia officials, or asked if one was available because maybe he liked the design or something. Well, anyway....

Although still structurally sound despite the surrounding neighborhood delapitating, the team moved to the brand new JOE LOUIS Arean in '79. Well, since then the team and the fans were complaining in the last decade or so about conditions at "The Joe" as it got to be called, and game ticket demand FAR outnumbered the amount of seats available, so they decided to build another, newer arena. They're calling it "Little Caesar's arena"(due to team owner Mike Ilitch being the founder of the Little Caesar's pizza company) and the FIRST non-hockey event to take place there after it opens in October this year is a PAUL McCARTNEY concert! I thought it oddly "kismet" like due to the FIRST time Paul came here he performed in a Red Wing venue! And in Oct.too! And it got me to thinking....will he THIS time perhaps get ANOTHER Red Wing Sticker for one of his guitars? wink The crowd will probably go NUTS if he pulls out that old Epi with the sticker on it!
Whitefang
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#2855117 - 05/13/17 07:39 AM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Posts: 10205
Loc: Northern California
@ Fang, I have played with the play it like the record guys where the record rules. If I recorded a record I would most likely be able to play it again note for note but I would prefer not to be locked into doing it. The Clapton story is so real in my case that I'll tell you just a bit of it. My play it like the record bass buddy gave me a Clapton song book so I could learn a few of his leads from note for note tab and play it like the record. In the back it had an interview with Clapton in which he said paraphrasing: "I never play the song live the way I did it in the studio and that includes my famous riffs like Sunshine of You Love". I highlighted that comment and gave the book back to my bass player and told him that's my philosophy too and I like to play it my way. I never copy leads and really don't want to spend the time trying to sound just like SRV, Clapton, Elvis/Scotty, Doobies, Croce, Taylor, Beatles, Berry, etc. I would buy their books just to get their chords and lyrics back in the day (i.e. before YouTube and Chordie.com LOL!).

It was funny that I have my own fake it intros to songs like Lodi, Brown Eyed Girl, Johnny B. Goode, etc. It's not like the record but everybody knows what songs are coming and they enjoy my take on the intros. My old lead player could get the intros note for note just like the record, which is really a great thing to be able to do by ear. One day, my old bass buddy asked me to show his latest guitar player how I play the intro to Lodi as he just can't get it. I told him it's not like the record, and taught him my rendition. They are still using it LOL! Some of my riffs on songs like Truck'en, Pretty Woman, Day Tripper are very close to the record. I tell any potential band offer up front, if you are a play it like the record parrot band, I'm not your guy. I appreciate fully those that can do it "right" though...it's just not my style and I like to improvise my own leads, intros and fills. cool


Edited by Larryz (05/13/17 07:49 AM)
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#2855153 - 05/13/17 02:16 PM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: Larryz]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4379
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
I was always a jam band type of player. I figure out a way to twist the cover tunes that I do to be very different than the original recordings. I simply do not copy licks from anyone, not because those licks are bad, but because the original artist came up with it by being original. He may have learned licks from others but he then puts it together his way. That is what I aspired to do.

No cover band makes the big time, they may play the casinos as their big time, and make a few K each performance, but they ain't gonna retire after a 5-10 year career with enough money to live their life out in comfort, The cover artists have to keep on plugging away for the rest of their days.

So my choice to go original, is still my preference, but it is my hobby and no one can tell me what or how to play, because I do it for my own enjoyment.

I wanted to hit the big time and get lots of groupies, and be drippin with money. But of course when I saw how to get there, by moving to a big city, then finding other players that think the same way, and then rehearsing up a show over and over again. Then the frustration of trying to sell it. My attitude after realizing all that was; no thanks. End of big time dream.....The music became a hobby, a beloved hobby, but a hobby none the less.
_________________________
dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick

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#2855204 - 05/14/17 04:13 AM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: desertbluesman]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9882
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
I think a lot of us, especially those like me(who never really played "pro" for any length of time) can relate to a lot of what you two just posted.

LARRY:

I read once that John Lennon said, "There's been plenty of times we've left the studio with the feeling there was some other way to have done something or other on some particular song differently. Well, George probably wouldn't let us go back in and do it again, so we just wait until the next time we play it somewhere and do it THEN." And I too, am paraphrasing.

But there are SOME songs the audience probably won't accept your changing the intro to, like "Day Tripper" and "Pretty Woman" due to those intros being so INTEGRAL. And not really all that difficult. But I'd say a VARIATION of them that's still recognizable(like Van Halen's "Pretty Woman" intro) would easily "pass muster" . And on another note....

Since any band I was in never played any crowd bigger than what could fit comfortably in the average basement, and usually not that "sophisticated" of a crowd, we(one of the bands) used to do a cover of "Jeff's Boogie" that I'd open with the intro from "Over, Under, Sideways down"! grin

As for copying SOLOS "note for note", well, it's not always possible when you're talkin' about a tune by Van Halen, SRV, Hendrix and guys on THAT level, and I think anybody would be forgiving if you DIDN'T play them "note for note" wink


DBM:

I don't know if you mean "cover" bands, or "tribute" bands. To me there's a difference. I would think a "tribute" band would be held to a higher and stricter standard. I mean, who'd want to pay good money to see a BEATLES "tribute" band that sounds more like a cross between The Dave Clark Five and Uncle Kracker? grin And I think the "Big Time" guys GOT to be "big time" by doing the same things the same way over and over to the point that they BECAME "big time" enough to where they THEN could do as they pleased and nobody would compain because their fans LOVED them so much they were OK with the band doing anything they wished. The Beatles and The Stones took advantage of that it seems, and easily got away with it. wink
Whitefang
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#2855227 - 05/14/17 07:14 AM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 10205
Loc: Northern California
There are tunes with a recognizable lead or little part which the audience expects to hear like Folsom Prison, Memphis, etc. One tune my bass guy wanted me to play the lead like the record was Traveling Man by James Burton. It was a simple little ditty so I oblige when I can. Now Jimi, SRV, etc., I leave those leads alone as I can't/won't try to duplicate them. I did play with a guy that could play SRV note for note and was very talented but only for a very short period. Average audience size in the bars was about 50 or 60. Average at the Grange, Elks, Moose was about 150 to 200. Private parties and weddings about 200. County Fair, I lost count. They all appreciated our stuff, which was very close to the record but with a twist here and there which made things fun. Live audiences do not expect you to be a top notch cover band at local dives.

Like DBM, I'm a hobby case now. I play mostly at home for my own enjoyment. I still jam with friends at parties, etc. I do get in front of people and play solo now and then or with a couple of buddies. When playing solo, I do my thing even more with the tunes I play, as I don't have a band backing me and I have to create my own. I enjoy the freedom. If people I play for didn't appreciate what I do, I wouldn't bother loading my stuff up. While I do not play like the record, it comes very close to being true to the song. There are a few twists and turns as I like to arrange the tune's keys, chords, timing, structure, etc. When playing with others, I like to improvise on the leads. cool
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#2855245 - 05/14/17 10:53 AM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: whitefang]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4379
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
Originally Posted By: whitefang
DBM:

I don't know if you mean "cover" bands, or "tribute" bands.


I was talking about both, but now that you mention it the Tribute bands do make a decent living, however it would surprise me if they ever equaled the income of those whom they pay tribute to.

I have a friend Lou Maresca who fronts and leads Live At The Fillmore, http://liveatthefillmoreband.com/ an Allman Bros Tribute band, I know Lou from when he owned Tekcom a recording studio store now defunct in Philly. I must have spent a hundred fifty grand in his place back in the mid 80's. So I know him pretty well. I know he is doing well, but I am sure he can't retire with millions in the bank after a few years in the charts like the original bands can.

One story about Lou; When I decided to sell my tape studio, I put it on consignment at Tekcom. I was selling my Otari MX70 16 track 30 IPS tape speed an Otari MTR 12 2 C half track with dolby SR, and the Tack Scorpion 24x16 board I was asking twenty five grand. What I did not know he had a bad partner who ran Tekcom into bankruptcy at the same time my stuff was there. I was living in Carson city Nevada, or Florida, or California at the time a long ways away from him. When he sold the equipment he sent me a cashiers check which cashed. That is a man of integrity.

By the way, at an earlier time I sold some synths and related gear consigned at Tekcom and the guys who bought that stuff was Will Smith the millionaire Oscar winning actor, and his pard in the rap days Jazzy Jeff. Both of whom were customers of Tekcom as well.
_________________________
dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick

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#2855320 - 05/15/17 04:18 AM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: desertbluesman]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9882
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Now, THAT'S interesting. I'm guessing you're talking about WAY before he BECAME "millionaire Oscar winning actor Will Smith." But still....

Hope you don't mind if some of us use that at PARTIES...

You know, like; "Well I know a guy who helped WILL SMITH get to where he is NOW!" love wink
Whitefang


Edited by whitefang (05/15/17 04:18 AM)
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#2855440 - 05/15/17 04:23 PM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: whitefang]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4379
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
Originally Posted By: whitefang
Now, THAT'S interesting. I'm guessing you're talking about WAY before he BECAME "millionaire Oscar winning actor Will Smith." But still....

Hope you don't mind if some of us use that at PARTIES...

You know, like; "Well I know a guy who helped WILL SMITH get to where he is NOW!" love wink
Whitefang


The store Tekcom was famous in Philly for years, many a Philly recording artist shopped there. I never saw any of them there but I was told that Jazzy Jeff bought my TX816 rack http://www.vintagesynth.com/yamaha/tx816.php which is the guts of 8 Yamaha DX7's in a 5 rack space unit, he also bought one of my 2 Roland D 550's (the first Roland all digital synth in a 2 rack space unit). Will Smith bought the other D 550. At least that is what Looie (Tekcoms owner) told me when I went to pick up the money or use it for different gear. I believe him......Yes it was before the Fresh Prince Of Bel Air was in production. 87 or so, maybe a little earlier or later....Both Jazzy Jeff and Will Smith were Philly folks before fame and fortune......
_________________________
dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick

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#2855521 - 05/16/17 04:24 AM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: desertbluesman]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9882
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
So, I guess this means you can't snag us an autograph? Or wrangle us an introduction to JADA? wink

Then, what GOOD are ya? grin
Whitefang
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I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

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#2855603 - 05/16/17 10:00 AM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: whitefang]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4379
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
Originally Posted By: whitefang
So, I guess this means you can't snag us an autograph? Or wrangle us an introduction to JADA? wink

Then, what GOOD are ya? grin
Whitefang


You can always drop my his place in Sou Cal and tell him you know the guy who owned the D550 that he bought used at TeKcom....Maybe he will invite you in for the party.

_________________________
dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick

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#2855605 - 05/16/17 10:16 AM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: desertbluesman]
Fred_C Online   content
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Loc: PA
@DBM,

I know exactly how it feels to finally get a diifficult and challenging tune or phrase "under your fingers". It really gives you a wonderful feeling of accomplishment.

Nice work, pal!

P.S. I haven't posted in a while. I really don't "shiv a git" about celebrity birthdays.
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#2856007 - 05/18/17 01:40 PM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: Fred_C]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4379
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
Nailed it again today. Now that is progress 2x in 3 tries. (well there was a tiny pho pa in there in the second solo but more than acceptable enough for live performance)(only another player would have noticed it)

_________________________
dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick

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#2858682 - 06/01/17 01:25 PM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: desertbluesman]
desertbluesman Offline
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Registered: 05/22/07
Posts: 4379
Loc: Near Phoenix Az
Nailed it again today, that is thee times in a month. Geez maybe I could go out and perform it if I practiced it more.
_________________________
dbm
If it sounds good, it is good !!
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=143231&content=music
Harvey Cedars is my stage name on Soundclick

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#2858696 - 06/01/17 02:04 PM Re: Hooray !!!! I nailed it for the first time ever. [Re: desertbluesman]
Larryz Offline
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 10205
Loc: Northern California
By Jove, I think you've got it DBM! Congrats! thu
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