HX3 MIDI expander module

[Markyboard]

If you can program it to sound the way *you* like it and believe it should sound, then who cares how it sounds stock, out of the box? That's just someone else's opinion on how it sounds *to their ears*. There aren't two B3's or A100's that sound identical, are there? Dial in the settings you like and be happy.

 

+1

 

The menu structure on the HX-3 is somewhat tedious. But I think once you dial in say your ideal C/V parameters and you're happy with it, you save the patch and theoretically never have to go there again. Of course it would be great if the default settings for every parameter were to one's liking and that everyone liked the exact same thing...err.. no ...that actually would not be good. As wd8dky wisely pointed out the guy who programmed the defaults most likely did so based on his preferences (with other's inputs as well). But he may have totally ignored the specific /unique Hammond sound that someone else prefers knowing that they could dial it in themselves.

 

Maybe that's why they don't bother with a demo of certain configurations since it would not be representative of the wide variety the device is capable of delivering - even for one specific feature like C/V.

[KRK]

There aren't two B3's or A100's that sound identical, are there?

 

this is a "urban myth"

 

when they were new, just out of the factory, they had no reasons for have different sound...

(direct sound or with the same leslie)

 

also, if they are nowadays completely restored by a good technician (some components, etc.) they do sounds almost identical

 

than, the difference between two C3s is given by how many hours they have been played and abused on tour (load it on a truck, take it around for miles and miles, use a knife on the keybed for some realistic ELP cover, etc.)

[Throbert]

On the other hand, isn't it nice to just turn the thing on and hear that it's already there?

Wouldn't be nice if you could pick up your B3 with one hand slide it in your rack and play it from your choice of board.

[TKN]

I looked at some of the latest parameters of the HX3 and to their credit, quite a bit of work has been done on the CV. So they are taking it seriously.

 

However - tweaking this or that forever and ever can lead to at least temporary insanity.

 

The HX3 now has adjustable parameters for Scanner Gears, Scanner Leak \Vibrato Amp Mod,Vib Channel Pre emphasis,Vib Channel reflect,Vib Channel response,Line box level, and Modulation amount.

 

I would think that you would really have to know what you are doing to edit on this level. One thing could cancel out something else.

 

I am used to Hammonds and I know what sounds good, but am I up to this? A little more info might be helpful about what I am messing with.

 

I do know that the HX3 I had in 2015 had a very strong throb in the upper octave, and sounded like it could benefit from a line box level adjustment and perhaps a change in modulation amount.

 

So I am glad they are at least addressing it.

 

On the other hand, isn't it nice to just turn the thing on and hear that it's already there?

 

I was A NAMM in 2011 and saw Joey D. show Dr. Lonnie Smith the Numa.

 

The first thing Dr. Lonnie said was "they got the chorus right"

 

And they did.

 

I have made a new recording today with the final version 4.25 to let you hear the C/V without any tweaking.

 

The recording from yesterday was from the beta version.

 

The link:

 

 

 

 

[LX88]

Thanks again to TKN for taking the time to do this.

 

It looks like the HX3 is headed on the right track.

[mate stubb]

Still sounds phasey to me.

[Paul Harrison]

Still sounds phasey to me.

 

I agree. Part of what makes a C/V "purr" and "shimmer" nicely rather than "warble" excessively is how much the effect tapers with frequency. Too much modulation of the high end makes a phasey warble, whereas increasing the taper tames it into a smooth purr on mellow tones like 888 0000 000 plus a subtle shimmer on bright tones like 888 0000 008 and 888 8888 888.

[LX88]

The above recorded example sounds like an improvement over what I was given less than two years ago though.

 

I couldn't believe they let that go out . As an excuse the dealer was telling me that "all Hammonds sound different".

 

At least there are a few other people who think that CV is important and that there is more to an organ than how much it can growl.

 

 

 

 

[M_G]

 

OK, now we can ask for an CV-update on the XK3c and the C2D ??

 

Oh, wait, I forgot..... the never responded....

;-)

 

[LX88]

I am trying to be fair and at least give the HX3 people some kind of credit for trying. And I do hear progress on the clips that were provided above and I appreciate that.

 

Once again, my interest stems from the fact that I could really use a module right now. I need something lightweight and simple. But I also need something with good CV that I can run in mono.

 

A lot of people get upset if you try to put a stereo rig on a small bandstand. And just try to find a stereo keyboard amp .

 

So I revisited the HX3 and I am trying to see if I can get it to work. Sorry, I don't have the money for a Mojo or Key B right now. I am really waiting to see if this Viscount thing will work out with Key B.

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

Potential answer: Gemini module; the C/V in it is 'right'; the leslie sim is almost Vent quality plus you get physically modeled: Rhodes, Wurli, D6 Clav, hybrid sample/modeled acoustic piano. Also contains horns, strings, VA synth and a dozen other instruments, for only a few hundred dollars more than the HX3 module.

 

[LX88]

I almost went that route Dave. I was confused about the variations and I thought that the model made for the dual manual controller would some how work.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but a standalone Gemini is running over a thousand dollars.

.

The difference between a used HX3 and a new Gemini is actually around 500 or more, and I need a roof worse right now.

 

So there are all these HX3's out there at low prices ( ebay, reverb, garage sale ) so I am thinking I won't lose much to give it a try and see if some of these guys really know what they are talking about.

 

If I have to I guess I can run in stereo and use the sim, which I recall was decent.

 

 

 

 

[Delaware Dave]

The variation model used for the dual manual controller is specific to that controller; it plugs into the slot on the DMC122. The other two variations, the desktop and the rack, can be used midi. They both support single manual use as well as double manual. Yes, it is just over $1000.

[TomKittel]

Potential answer: Gemini module; the C/V in it is 'right'; the leslie sim is almost Vent quality.

 

It always seems to be a matter of taste if a C/V sounds 'right'. A short demo with CV on/off would be greatly appreciated.

[Delaware Dave]

Right, to my ears, is how it compares to a B3; in this particular case how it sounds compared to my B3. To others right might be how they would like it to sound; which may or may not sound like a B3's C/V. So others may like it but it might not sound authentic as compared to the real deal. When I listen to the Mojo (in my case the Gemini module) to my ears it says this sounds like my Hammond sounds. That's what I'm looking for and that is what the Gemini delivers. I call it a purr, Moe calls it a shimmer; I'm pretty sure we're talking about the same thing.

 

I also own an L100p (porta B). Aside from being overall brighter it uses a vibrato line box instead of a scanner. Kinda what the HX3's C/V sounds like to me.

[LX88]

I have found that the CV effect is fairly consistent from Hammond to Hammond especially on the 3 series from 1955 thru 1974.

 

I probably don't see it as a matter of taste unless you use C1 or C2 instead of C3. It's something you can depend on if everything works right.

 

And its's one of those things that makes A Hammond a joy to play. I'ts inspiring every time

[TomKittel]

Just wondering why some HX3 owners are ready to upload demos of the C/V. I wish Mojo owners would do the same. This would help to compare the SOUND instead of discussing personal taste.

 

I also owned a L100 and a Voce V5+. I find it ridiculous to compare the HX3 C/V with either of these. There is no comparison. Not a single bit.

[LX88]

Even though I was hoping to find sound clips of the HX3, the reality is that you have to get your hands on one and hear how it responds to what you do.

 

I can't even find a Crumar instrument to demo much less an updated HX3. You just about have to buy one to find out what it can do.

 

My Numa is down right now and it may be a while before I can get it going. A long story I would rather not get into, but there were no qualified techs in my area to help me with it so In will have to wait till NAMM to speak to the guys from Italy who designed it.

 

So I am looking for an affordable solution to get me through the rest of the year.

 

 

 

 

[Doerfler]

So I am looking for an affordable solution to get me through the rest of the year.

 

so have you found a more affordable solution than a used HX3 that can get you close to what you want? :idk

[LX88]

I wouldn't mind getting my hands on a Roland VK8m right now. I really liked it when I had it, but I sold it to get a Numa.

 

The VK8m has great CV. The VR 09 actually has good CV too, but they made the fatal mistake of putting CV on the percussion.

 

There are some that would say that the Roland VK engine lacks balls WHICH IS NONSENSE. Roland has the correct parameters on the drawbar tones as do many organ clones including Casio.

 

Roland VK8m has great overdrive too. And the overdrive does not affect the gain like the HX3, which I assume is global. Correct me if I am wrong on that. Global overdrive would be a PIA IMO because you would have to go into edit every time you want a clean sound.

 

The Vk8m does not have a great sim, but that could be addressed obviously.

 

To get good CV from the VK8m you do have to send sysex messages to defeat the sim. Once you do that, the CV rivals anything out there today.

[LX88]

OK I got a used HX3 that I am experimenting with.

 

And I have a CV set up that is working reasonably well. It kind of drove me nuts because there are so many parameters. At first it did not sound right through a Yamaha mixer -an MG 10/2. I gave up on tweaking the CV for a few days.

 

The next thing I tried was a Yamaha receiver instead of the mixer. The CV sounded different. Some of the percussion harmonics ( I use 3rd harmonic slow decay) that were giving me fits smoothed out.

 

So now it's reasonable.Enough about CV for now.

 

I really do like the leslie sim with this. That is what makes this package the great deal that it is. When I was not getting the CV to behave, I could go to the leslie effect and at least get some music out of it.

 

I do have some questions...

 

Can the key click be turned down ? The reason I ask is because it shows up every inaccuracy if the note is not attacked just right. Clonewheel keys respond differently than Hammond keys do. Yes I know Hammonds have key click. That is one thing I like about some clones is that you can turn it down thank god.

 

Also... is the tube amp effect global? I know it makes for some great grunge but please... not all the time. It's way loud too. I'd like to be able to use it on occasion but so far I have to get into the edit menu to adjust anything to do with this.

 

Another good thing. My Hammond XK2 controls HX3 drawbars, presets and expression pedal ( I have the original Hammond one.) The XK2 is a good controller for the HX3.... I use the presets as percussion controls right now.

 

Cost was definitely a factor in my decision. I got a good price on a used HX3. My Numa is down until I can speak to the guys from Italy at NAMM next year. American Music is low on Numa 1 parts. I don't want to get into that....

 

So I may be able to make this XK2/ HX3 thing work. Great Keybed on the XK2 BTW.It's better than the original TP 80 that the Numa and Mojo had. I think it rivals the new Mojo. Definitely responds nicely to the HX3.

[Doerfler]

OK I got a used HX3 that I am experimenting with.(snip)

So I may be able to make this XK2/ HX3 thing work.

 

[The_Star_Guy]

OK I got a used HX3 that I am experimenting with.

 

 

Another good thing. My Hammond XK2 controls HX3 drawbars, presets and expression pedal ( I have the original Hammond one.) The XK2 is a good controller for the HX3.... I use the presets as percussion controls right now.

 

Cost was definitely a factor in my decision. I got a good price on a used HX3.

 

So I may be able to make this XK2/ HX3 thing work. Great Keybed on the XK2! BTW.It's better than the original TP 80 that the Numa and Mojo had. I think it rivals the new Mojo. Definitely responds nicely to the HX3.

 

Great to hear that you were successful in getting the two to work together. I agree 100% that the XK-2 keybed is great, and as a bonus it also has a flat surface top & a built-in audio input that makes it ideal for use with an external module. So now my decision is going to come down to either getting an HX3 or selling my XK-2 and getting the new Mojo 61, which is further complicated by the fact that the Mojo 61 now has a built-in Clav option as well......decisions...decisions...!

[LX88]

OK... another burning question.

 

Does the leslie "brake" stop in random positions on the HX3?

 

I am getting some indications that this might be the case. With the brake on, it may sound different depending on where it stops.

 

This one thing that I discussed with Elvio Previati years ago.The Key B sim stopped in random positions, but fortunately you could by pass the sim altogether for CV in mono.

 

 

[Doerfler]

you could by pass the sim altogether for CV in mono

 

pretty sure you can do the same on the HX3. There are 2 audio output configurations, A and B. Scroll through the different settings on one of them and see if you find something else you like better than what you are currently using.

[LX88]

Thank you Dave.

 

I just demoed this through one 12'' JBL D130 speaker. The percussion sounds even, the CV not bad. It's the Hammond tone cabinet approach... no high frequency drivers. It helps minimize key click which BTW was one aim of the tone cabinet.

 

Still a bit much click through phones.

 

 

[LX88]

Dave Doerfler was correct... audio configuration A seems to give the sound more of a mono effect whereas configuration B seems to give stereo even with the sim on brake.

 

Is there a more comprehensive user's guide than the brief one I was given with the unit? This one doesn't seem to go into detail to explain specific applications.

 

It kind of reminds me of cell phones... the assumption is that you are just supposed to be born knowing.

 

So I got some better CV on config A. I am not sure about these push buttons to scroll through the menu. And don't move this unit suddenly, or the power supply will send a power surge through your amp. There must be a better way. The plug is not snug... it moves way too easily as you merrily scroll through all these parameters.

 

I am getting results with this. CV much improved from the 2015 issue I had. Bang for the buck.

[TKN]

Is there a more comprehensive user's guide than the brief one I was given with the unit? This one doesn't seem to go into detail to explain specific applications.

 

https://github.com/keyboardpartner/HX3/blob/master/DOCS_PDF/UserManual_plexi.pdf

 

 

http://www.diversi.us/support.html

 

 

[LX88]

Yes... that gives me an update on the output configurations.

 

Thank you

 

And yes it does affect the stereo/ mono scenario. That whole jazz CV issue is probably best done in mono. It's more in focus that way.I'm working with all those CV parameters...sheesh.

 

I did get into the grunge sound. There is a girl who helps me around the house and I played Born to be Wild with the tube amp gain up for her. Next thing I knew she was dancing around...

 

So maybe there is something to that sound with some " snarl" in it. Rock listeners are probably most familiar with "the beast" - as Jon Lord once put it. The HX3 does that one extremely well.

 

 

 

 

 

[hardware]

I've tweaked my ramps to get the exact sound from the Pusher by Steppenwolf.

I agree a mono focus, or spread at 20 works really well.

Balance on Rotary at 65 for better Doppler emphasis is the finishing touch.

 

What's really cool is having an entire bank of controllers on my Physis K4 means I can alter CV, ramp, grit...any parameter per preset.

A different B3 sound since I don't need drawbar presets other than default.

 

For even more Doppler beauty I can kick in Pitch Shift and Phaser during ramp.

Is it authentic..No.

Is it effective.....Hell yeah.