Music Player Network Home Guitar Player Magazine Keyboard Magazine Bass Player Magazine EQ Magazine
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
Topic Options
#2849784 - 04/16/17 07:39 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9839
Loc: Northern California
It has come up before on the forum that the old AM radio rock and roll stations played a ton of songs that were really not rock and roll. Mack The Knife is an example (which is a song I really grew up liking). Along with some country, blues, jazz standard tunes, pop, etc. Us kids (always liked my aunts using that expression when they talked about the old days) got introduced to a lot of variety in music when trying to listen to our rock and roll. These days I refer to my material as being versatile...hopefully I'll play something for everyone in the audience when I play solo. [MY] newest song is from 1995 LOL! thu
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
GP Island
#2849832 - 04/16/17 12:48 PM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 4934
Loc: Los Angeles
Interestingly, when I first became aware of pop music, via Top 40 radio, was around 1960, when I was 8. In LA radio, at that time, Elvis was considered an Oldie But Goodie, not really current, but Chuck's tunes were still being played, as current records. So I was a little too late to the party to have Elvis as an influence, but Chuck, being a guitarist especially, was very much a part of my music formation.
_________________________
Scott Fraser

Top
#2849953 - 04/17/17 04:53 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: Scott Fraser]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9480
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
I also some time ago, started a discussion on the many ways the word "rock" and term "rock star" was(and still IS) being used.

Celebrity chef ANN BURRELL wrote a book titled, "Cook Like A Rock Star!". Which really didn't have ANYTHING to do with how actual Rock Stars cooked. Or other uses of the word, as in, "Man, he really ROCKS that shirt!" and such.

So, "Rock" is not only the label of a music genre, it's also become both a verb AND an adjective. wink

So now, anyone who's at the top of their particular field is sometimes referred to as a "Rock Star", and anyone who does ANYTHING particularily well is known to "Rock" it. Which to me indicates that the MUSIC the term is borrowed from is something special. wink
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2850369 - 04/19/17 04:50 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: whitefang]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9480
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
I hope, after all this, that JuJu takes away some insight as to what rock'n'roll is. There's only one other example that I can add that may or may not help.....

I was watching the movie "LA BAMBA" yesterday, the first time in many years. There was a part in the movie in which Ritchie Valens said that for the "B" side of "Donna" he wanted to do "La Bamba". His manager/producer tried to nix the idea by saying, "It isn't rock'n'roll." To which Ritchie answered, "It is the way I play it!" That might help explain things a bit, I'm not sure, but another way...

Rock'n'roll is but another vehichle in which a song can ride.

Classical would be the limousine, Jazz would be a sport car, and rock'n'roll would be the "MUSCLE CAR"! wink
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2850403 - 04/19/17 08:01 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9839
Loc: Northern California
I think La Bamba lead The Beatles to Twist and Shout...it's fun to run these two songs together as a rock and roll medley! cool
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2850559 - 04/20/17 04:52 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9480
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Now you're getting back into history. "La Bamba" is an old Mexican folk tune that was long in the "public domain" by the time Valens did his thing with it. And probably because it WAS in the public domain is probably why the guys who got writing credits for the Isley Brother's cover of "Twist and Shout"( yeah, it was a cover) in '62 didn't have the same hassel George Harrison did with "My Sweet Lord"/"He's So Fine".

My wife( born in '41) and her older sister( and their Dad) told me they'd hear "La Bamba" played at Mexican weddings and other parties when they were growing up. smile It was usually one of the first songs any "ese" who picked up a guitar learned. wink
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2850585 - 04/20/17 07:28 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9839
Loc: Northern California
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u__dnb9nop8 <---here's the movie version. Los Lobos is the band doing La Bamba and as the story goes Ritchie got the idea listening to an old Mexico band. At the end of the clip, you'll see Los Lobos on the acoustics. They do acoustic sets of the old Mexico music and one of these days I have to go see them live! If you watch closely you'll see a shot of Brian Setzer who played Eddie Cochran doing Summertime Blues in the movie...The Twist and Shout song was originally recorded by The Top Notes in '61, so the Isley Brothers version in '62 was as you say, a cover if you want to get historical!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YgVWot_xrxE <---here's the Beatles doing their cover of Twist and Shout...they did a lot of covers BTW in their early days. You can hear the similarities and I think the Beatles version of T&S was born in old Mexico as well... cool


Edited by Larryz (04/20/17 11:09 AM)
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2850774 - 04/21/17 05:25 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9480
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
You don't have to really look that "closely" to notice Setzer as Eddie Cochran in that movie. And I'd say it's another good example of "perfect casting". wink

But the point of my bringing both the movie and the song "La Bamba" up WASN'T to examine the history of the song. It was the the incident of Valens telling his manager that it IS rock'n'roll, "The way I play it." that was. JuJu wanted to know, "What is rock and roll?" And I thought it might help. But then, we here in the U S of A have become so accustomed to it that it's almost as hard to define as "What is LOVE?" But we DID give it a good try, and didn't resort to quoting Louis Armstrong who, when asked, "What is jazz?" answered, "If you have to ask, you'll NEVER know. " wink
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2850791 - 04/21/17 06:46 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: whitefang]
JuJu Kwan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/08/16
Posts: 191
Loc: Shenzhen, China
The U of Hawaii has an online course called The Evolution of American Popular Music. I have enough to worry about with my current class schedule, but may try to take it sometime in the future.

Thanks for all the help, my head is spinning.


Edited by JuJu Kwan (04/21/17 07:06 AM)
_________________________






Top
#2850795 - 04/21/17 07:42 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9839
Loc: Northern California
@ Fang, That one line in the movie sums up my philosophy perfectly. Ritchie took a song out of old Mexico and made it his own...+1 The casting of Brian Setzer to do Summertime Blues was also perfect as he not only has the look, he could play it and sing it just like the original. Both concepts of doing your own thing and/or playing it like the original, are part of rock and roll history. Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it! In the case of rock and roll, I look forward to repeating it LOL! cool

@ JuJu, just think of your head spinning like a 45rpm record and you'll find plenty of rock and roll history on them. Hope we didn't throw too many curves at you! I hope you do get to that Evolution of American Popular Music. Sounds like a real fun course! cool
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2850954 - 04/22/17 04:16 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9480
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
The "Evolution of American Popular Music"?

That ALONE will make your head spin, let alone the history of rock'n'roll! grin

+1 on sounding like a fun course. PLEASE feel free to post any info you get from it! smile
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2850965 - 04/22/17 06:11 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: whitefang]
JuJu Kwan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/08/16
Posts: 191
Loc: Shenzhen, China
UH has a class on the History of Rock and Roll, but they don't offer it online.
_________________________






Top
#2851112 - 04/22/17 08:35 PM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Delta Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/18/10
Posts: 211
Loc: Ormond Beach, FL
JuJu, I've been listening to R&R for 50 years and still love it. This may sound simplistic but Wikipedia has a decent definition and condensed history of the genre. Use it as a template, listen to the music and form your own opinion of what R&R is.

Top
#2851161 - 04/23/17 05:10 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: Delta]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9480
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
freak
OW! Delta.....

50 YEARS?

At THAT point, many of us here had been listening to it for 10+!
crazy

Remember....50 years ago was the "Summer of love". cool
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2851440 - 04/24/17 10:24 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: whitefang]
Eric Iverson Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 5216
Loc: Jackson Heights, NY
This all reminds me of what Louis Armstrong said when asked to define jazz: "Lady, if you have to ask, you'll never know!"
And John Mayall once said: "I won't define blues... blues is coathanger!"
Can we define classical music? Well the borders have become more blurry over the years - I'm sure Scott could tells us about THAT....

Define ROCK?? Maybe, "it's got a good beat and you can dance to it," if you remember Dick Clark and teenagers rating records.
Of course, Strauss waltzes have a good beat and you can dance to them......

Top
#2851619 - 04/25/17 05:02 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: Eric Iverson]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9480
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
crazy

Yeah. So do POLKAS! grin

Funny thing about that too. Back when I was a kid and The Dovells song "The Bristol Stomp" was all over the radio, my Grandmother( we're Polish) remarked something about it sounding somewhat like a Polka. We all laughed of course, but when, at her house, my brother put his 45 of it on her record player, our Grandparents DID the Polka to it in the middle of their living room! shocked

So....It's got a "GOOD BEAT", Dick? Hmph! A "good beat" for WHAT? grin
Whitefang (Did'ja see my thread about ya Eric?)


Edited by whitefang (04/25/17 05:04 AM)
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2852025 - 04/26/17 11:15 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9839
Loc: Northern California
I agree with Dicks Clark's American Bandstand reviews...R&R has to have a good beat and be easy to dance to LOL! I usually up tempo songs for dancing gigs but I remember one Beatle tune This Boy, that I slowed down a little. My bass player being a just like the record kind of guy didn't care for my slower version "as it's too hard to dance to when played slower". So, I threw my guitar cord out front and started dancing to it while playing it just to show him it's a nice fit (if you know how to dance LOL!)... cool
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2852160 - 04/27/17 05:29 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9480
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
????

Slow DOWN "This Boy"?

Wasn't it SLOW ENOUGH already? wink
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2852207 - 04/27/17 09:03 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9839
Loc: Northern California
Yeah, your right, my version is up-tempo using a jazzy like 2strum chord changes. It's not all that much faster. It's been so long since the gig I was talking about I forgot that I went faster instead of slower...

Anyway, I just went into my music room and picked up my acoustic and played it to find out LOL! It's not like the slow original and has a different vibe. The bass player was wrong though, it was/is exceptionally easy to dance to and has a good beat! Not that the Beatles didn't do a great job...I just like my version better! facepalm


Edited by Larryz (04/27/17 09:03 AM)
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2852371 - 04/28/17 05:13 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9480
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Well, when you consider that with a song to "slow dance" to can't really be TOO slow( as we really weren't that concerned with the DANCING then anyway wink ) Then I guess what you did was OK too. smile
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2852395 - 04/28/17 06:59 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: whitefang]
Eric Iverson Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 5216
Loc: Jackson Heights, NY
I read somewhere that French classical composer Maurice Ravel was upset at a performance of his famous Bolero (you've all heard it, doubtless) and said, "the Bolero is a dance, but it is a SLOW dance".........
Re: dancing - that was never a particular interest of mine, just something to do to make the girl I was with happy. My wife told me once, "How come you have good rhythm in your HANDS but not in your FEET??"
So I guess I'm not a candidate for ballet star of the year! Maybe I just have heard the right dance music...........

Top
#2852404 - 04/28/17 07:46 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: Eric Iverson]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 5873
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
FWIW & BTW, if ya gotta go to Uversity to learn abt the what's what fer hysteria O' pop music ya' ain't been alive long have ya ?
Least not dur'n' last 1/2 C.
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2852405 - 04/28/17 07:47 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: Eric Iverson]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9839
Loc: Northern California
It's a ton of fun when our dance band shows up and we rock the house. The whole dance floor is filled up with everyone dancing and having a great time! "It has to have a good beat and be easy to dance to", is true for both fast and slow tunes. You need about 3 slow tunes and 9 fast tunes per set and each set should build on the fun factor with the song choices. When playing solo, it's mostly a listening affair. So you can sit down and play 5 slow and 5 fast tunes and/or the in between tunes LOL! I don't really care to dance anymore but I still enjoy listening to live music... cool


Edited by Larryz (04/28/17 07:48 AM)
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2852539 - 04/29/17 04:44 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9480
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
ERIC:

The Bolero IS actually a style of dance as well as music. So Ravel had a reason to complain.

And actually, I've always found his "Bolero" a kind of a bore, but HAVE heard various recordings and was at a few performances of it and have to agree it does come off better at a slower tempo.

As far as dancing goes, I usually looked like ST. VITUS on the dancefloor grin so I never bothered with going to many dances when young, but slow dancing didn't seem to be a problem, and of course in MY house(as a kid) you HAD to learn to Polka. So....
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2852583 - 04/29/17 08:50 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 4934
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: whitefang
And actually, I've always found his "Bolero" a kind of a bore, but HAVE heard various recordings and was at a few performances of it and have to agree it does come off better at a slower tempo.
Whitefang


At the time it came on the scene it was an incredibly radical departure from the classical mainstream. That sort of repetition was some 40-45 years before Phillip Glass made it his signature. Ravel's own personal score indicates a tempo of 76, which is crossed out & replaced with 66, so he favored a slower tempo as well. It's his most well known & well loved piece, but he was not much enamored of it apparently.
Check out Pink Martini's version.
_________________________
Scott Fraser

Top
#2852593 - 04/29/17 09:23 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: Scott Fraser]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 5873
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Doesn't the actual tempo of "Bolero" accelerate as the piece progresses ?
Or does it just get busier ?
I'll have to recheck that....
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2852604 - 04/29/17 09:59 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: d]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 4934
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: d
Doesn't the actual tempo of "Bolero" accelerate as the piece progresses ?
Or does it just get busier ?
I'll have to recheck that....


The orchestration fills out & the dynamics are a constant crescendo throughout but the tempo remains the same.
_________________________
Scott Fraser

Top
#2852694 - 04/30/17 04:35 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: Scott Fraser]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9480
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
As "well loved" as it appears to be, I more prefer his Daphnis et Chloe.

But that's how it goes with some of those guys. Like, "The Nutcracker" and it's suite is Tchaikovsky's most "well loved" work, but he too, really didn't care that much for IT. It was a commissioned work, and he did it to hurry up and get out of the obligation. So he claimed. wink

I suppose there are a few(or more) rock'n'roll recordings out there that the band or artist did without much effort or care in order to fullfill the contracted "sides" they were required to do so they could move on to a different label with possibly a better contract. But, the PUBLIC might have wound up liking them so much that we're not AWARE of the artist NOT liking it that much too.
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2852745 - 04/30/17 09:17 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9839
Loc: Northern California
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsxzBCr2zNM <---when I think of Rock and how it relates to Classical, I think of the Tans-Siberian Orchestra. They can handle the tempo changes extremely well. I sat in the audience and watched their show live and it was fantastic! Everyone should experience their show at least once...but sit near the aisle and an exit as there is a ton of pyrotechnics going off LOL! The lazier light show is also incredible... cool
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2852764 - 04/30/17 11:30 AM Re: What is Rock&Roll? [Re: Larryz]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 5873
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
FWIW & BTW, I think the Trans Siberian Express is over.
Leader Paul O'Neill died abt 3 weeks ago.

Tying up recent trail here, there's this...

Bolero take 1


bolero take 2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=laXXXJ_1dHQ


...which should effectively bring us back to the topic at hand.
What is R&R ?
One answer might be remaking the musical landscape for a modern age/edge.
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
Page 3 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >


Moderator:  A String, Bluesape, myles_rose