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#2850542 - 04/20/17 12:40 AM Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen
macgig Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 5
My beloved PC3x freaks me out recently as it increasingly refuses to boot when I turn it on. Half of the times, when I turn it on, all the LEDs will light and the screen displays a strange message "A system failure seen...." with a lot of zeros. Half of the times, it is just a blank bright blue screen. I have to turn the thing off and on again, sometimes 2,3 times before the PC3x boots properly. A hard reset would not help and the problem becomes more and more frequent. I very much appreciate your kind help.
Regards,
Macgig


Edited by macgig (04/20/17 12:40 AM)

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#2850549 - 04/20/17 04:06 AM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: macgig]
Analogaddict Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 3147
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I had a ribbon cable that come loose in my PC3. It got stuck in the boot loader with a system failure error message. There's a hatch you can open underneath it - make sure all ribbon connections you can find are solid. Best of luck!

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#2850557 - 04/20/17 04:49 AM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: Analogaddict]
Stokely Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1301
Loc: Florida
Ugh...mine did this as well, or something similar. I couldn't get it to boot at all after it did this at a gig....until finally I went into the system menu (or whatever it is called, the equivalent to a "safe mode" in Windows) to try a hard reset; I saw the option to boot from there, and it worked normally. It hasn't freaked out since, but I'm very wary of it and bring our singer's Juno D to every gig now as a backup (I also always gig with a 2nd board, whereas occasionally before I'd do shorter gigs with just the pc3...not anymore).

I had a tech look at it but he couldn't find any issues. Wouldn't hurt for me to doublecheck that ribbon cable mentioned above. It's probably related: I've had the screen occasionally go dark on me for a while now, I just tap it to bring it back (again, the tech couldn't see anything causing it). At this point, I can't sell it without a massive discount, so I'm just riding it out trying to get as many gigs with it as possible before it gives out. It's a fantastic keyboard but of course it has to work! smile


Edited by Stokely (04/20/17 04:50 AM)

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#2850569 - 04/20/17 05:47 AM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: macgig]
TomKittel Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 379
Originally Posted By: macgig
My beloved PC3x freaks me out recently as it increasingly refuses to boot when I turn it on. Half of the times, when I turn it on, all the LEDs will light and the screen displays a strange message "A system failure seen...." with a lot of zeros. Half of the times, it is just a blank bright blue screen. I have to turn the thing off and on again, sometimes 2,3 times before the PC3x boots properly. A hard reset would not help and the problem becomes more and more frequent. I very much appreciate your kind help.
Regards,
Macgig


I had a similar problem with my K2500 in the past. It turned out that the power supply device was defective. Hope it's only the above mentioned connector issue but if not you should include the transformer in your fault finding. Good luck!

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#2850572 - 04/20/17 06:17 AM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: TomKittel]
hipogrito Offline
Member

Registered: 05/13/11
Posts: 22
Loc: East Northport,NY
Make sure you ask for help here: http://kurzweil.com/support/repair/

Regards,
Fran

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#2850575 - 04/20/17 06:51 AM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: hipogrito]
synthizen2 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/19/04
Posts: 603
Loc: USA
Hmmmm... this news is making me nervous about gigging my PC3 without a backup. Guess I will be packing the old Z1 in the gig truck as a backup for important gigs from now on. tired
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Kurzweil PC3, Yamaha MOX8, Korg Z1, Alesis Ion, Alesis QS8.2, Kawai K3M, Arturia CS-80V, VAZ Modular, co-author of MinimogueVA and Arppe2600va.

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#2850723 - 04/20/17 07:44 PM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: synthizen2]
macgig Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 5
Ouch. Did not know that I am not the only one having this problem. I will definitely check the ribbon solution. I believe that the hatch is for the expansion boards. What happens if there are also other ribbon cables in other places? Do I need to open the whole thing? It seems like the PC3x did a system check before booting and something is not right and it does not boot....
Thank you so much for all the kind help so far. Anyone with similar problem please kindly share your experience.
Macgig

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#2850725 - 04/20/17 08:16 PM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: macgig]
Moonglow Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/15/03
Posts: 4295
Loc: Northwest Indiana
My PC3X started to make this loud crackling sound shortly after startup. I subsequently contacted Kurzweil and they advised it was probably related to a failed component associated with the screen. Will cost around $400 to replace the screen. I haven't taken it in for repairs yet, because I've been using it as a backup/rehearsal keyboard. At this point I would much rather apply the 400 bucks toward a shiny new thing.
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#2850733 - 04/20/17 09:38 PM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: Moonglow]
GDP Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/18/09
Posts: 1015
Loc: So-Cal
I really loved my PC3x until I had to replace the backlight screen. Couldn't have that failure at a gig, so it has been replaced....by something red....

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#2850746 - 04/21/17 12:43 AM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: GDP]
Analogaddict Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 3147
Loc: Stockholm, Sweden
I've had ribbon cables coming loose in my Virus Ti, my Nord Electro decided to unload all samples at a soundcheck, my Triton did a hard reset on itself deleting ALL patches... Right now my SK-1 needs cleaned keyboard contacts since a D isn't triggering neither organ nor samples. Stuff happens! smile

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#2850750 - 04/21/17 01:36 AM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: Analogaddict]
aronnelson Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 611
That LCD is around $200 by itself and it it's painful IMO to replace. I sold my PC3 but I miss it.


Edited by aronnelson (04/21/17 01:36 AM)
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#2850752 - 04/21/17 01:51 AM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: aronnelson]
macgig Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/16
Posts: 5
Wondering if Mr. Weiser would have insight on this issue...

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#2850753 - 04/21/17 01:56 AM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: Analogaddict]
TomKittel Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/09/13
Posts: 379
Originally Posted By: Analogaddict
I've had ribbon cables coming loose in my Virus Ti, my Nord Electro decided to unload all samples at a soundcheck, my Triton did a hard reset on itself deleting ALL patches... Right now my SK-1 needs cleaned keyboard contacts since a D isn't triggering neither organ nor samples. Stuff happens! smile


Not sure if it's just me. But this kind of stuff always only happened to my Kurzweil boards, f.e. broken soft buttons on K2500 and PC3 (a long known Kurzweil disease!), PC3LE blinking problem, PC2 jammed keybed with fallen off key weights and so on. Never had a single issue with my Japanese brands or with DSI. But I am masochistic enough to still love Kurzweil ('It's the sound!') and I am on the fence of getting an Artis 7 (which again potentially suffers from a white noise problem which obviously led to product recalls). If they only had a better quality control...

Wondering how Kurzweil would perform if there were a J.D. Power report for keyboards?

;-)

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#2850761 - 04/21/17 03:04 AM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: TomKittel]
Al Coda Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 3763
Loc: The Rig
Originally Posted By: TomKittel


Not sure if it's just me. But this kind of stuff always only happened to my Kurzweil boards, f.e. broken soft buttons on K2500 and PC3 (a long known Kurzweil desease!), PC3LE blinking problem, PC2 jammed keybed with fallen off key weights and so on. Never had a single issue with my Japanese brands or with DSI. But I am masochistic enough to still love Kurzweil ('It's the sound!') and I am on the fence of getting an Artis 7 (which again potentially suffers from a white noise problem which obviously led to product recalls). If they only had a better quality control...

Wondering how Kurzweil would perform if there were a J.D. Power report for keyboards?

;-)


I agree 100% !
Kurzweil needs to use higher quality electronic components,- especially in the pots, buttons and slider department, a display allowing replacement of backlight and better mechanic interlock of ribbon cable connections.
The pitch-wheel w/ itīs arrangement of pins holding the (wheel-return-)spring in place and in combination w/ THAT spring (which has a special shape) is also not ideal īcause it introduces some play making it difficult precisely calibrating the pitch-bend range and zero/dead-zone even when better multi-gang precision trimmers replaced the original trimmers on the wheel-board.
The pitchbend-mechanism in a Kurzweil is a notorious source for tuning issues where no re-calibration really helps īcause thereīs that play in the mechanism mentioned above.

I replaced the "Alpha" pots by sealed "Alps" pots which are also used by Yamaha,- since then no pot failure anymore, but that play in the mechanism still exist, making it neccessary to set the display functionality in master mode to "controls", just to have some visual control about the real-world pitch-bend controller value, which is sometimes still not zero w/ pitchbend wheel centered,- 1, 2 or 3 values pitchbend down or up instead.
When itīs +/-3, you already hear it and I myself already recognize when itīs a +/-2 difference.

It were all easy fixes for Kurzweil when they ressourced better quality componets working better together in THAT combination resulting in a more reliable instrument.
My PC3(61) model is a in general well built really cool instrument and one of the best MIDI controllers out there, but these little issues make it wonky.

The only reason I didnīt buy a FORTE is the experience w/ the PC361,- even I donīt have a bad one working most of the time.
But my other keyboard instruments and rack units I bought much earlier than my PC3, they all donīt show such "minor" issues, even not after heavy usage and roadie treatment,- and they also need no dust covers and similar amateurish protections users might have in their home but youīll never find on the road.
On the road, the gear goes into already dusty flightcases and no roadie will hoover each of your cases after show and before the gear goes in.
Professional instruments have to withstand those treatments.

A.C.
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#2850777 - 04/21/17 05:32 AM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: Al Coda]
Stokely Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1301
Loc: Florida
Well, the tech guy who checked mine over--he was not a shop or certified tech, but friend-of-a-friend and I figured it wouldn't hurt to have him take a look--definitely mentioned the screens specifically for the Kurz boards he's had/fixed. That, and the power supplies. That jives with some of the anecdotes I see above.

As someone said, I'm not going to pay $400 to fix a keyboard I bought used for $875 (in mint shape, on the outside at least!). Just going to keep gigging, with backup, and try to get more mileage out of mine. I guess I could try to sell as-is at a major discount....heck it's worked fine ever since the system-menu reboot so someone might get a super bargain.


Edited by Stokely (04/21/17 05:33 AM)

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#2850797 - 04/21/17 07:44 AM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: Stokely]
Delaware Dave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2485
Loc: Take a guess ....
and I'm sure that there would be full disclosure regarding its pre-system menu reboot issues to the next potential buyer as well .... or would the major discounted price be a good enough signal to the buyer?
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#2850820 - 04/21/17 09:28 AM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: Delaware Dave]
Stokely Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1301
Loc: Florida
No, I'd certainly tell a buyer what happened and the history. As it is, I figure that pretty much makes it unsellable, short of setting the price so low that I may as well keep it. It would make a very good controller sitting unmoving in a studio if nothing else (though I don't really need another one!) It's done maybe 10-12 gigs since
"the incident", though the "tap the screen to make it light up again" issue occasionally still happens.

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#2850838 - 04/21/17 11:31 AM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: Stokely]
aronnelson Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 09/04/14
Posts: 611
It's sad because the PC361 is such a great board. I really wanted to try and fix mine, but the price of the LCD plus the fact that it is totally buried in the case made me sell it. I miss having it since it was the 2nd most powerful keyboard I ever owned next to the Kronos. It just had a smooth, nice sound. I was happy playing it.
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Minimoog, Micromoog, Arp Odyssey, Yamaha CS-01, Roland JP-8000, MS2000R, Yamaha VL1, author of unrealBook for iPad.

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#2850931 - 04/21/17 08:25 PM Re: Kurzweil PC3x crash with blue screen [Re: aronnelson]
Tom Williams Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 513
Loc: West Virginia
Kilo-dittos. Love my PC361, and feel fear and trembling each time I boot it in the field. The scanner often freezes. Sometimes I can clear it up by plucking at the buttons, other times by dropping it 1-2 cm on the correct side. No, I am not kidding.

Last week I opened it up and tightened things. Closed it, put in all the screws -- and found I had disabled the aftertouch. Fixed that (for now) with electrical tape.

Any idea if later PC3s or the Forte are more reliable? I really don't want to give up the sound nor the playability, but damn, I have to be able to trust my axe.
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PC361, AX-Synth, K2600S
M-Audio Keystation 88, Axiom 61, Boss RT-20

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