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#2850203 - 04/18/17 07:58 AM Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy?
Winston Psmith Offline
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Sorry, folks, have to rant here. Grab a good hot cup of coffee, or bowl of whatever, and pull up a piece of floor . . .

First up, I generally have all respect for professional FOH sound crews. They know their sound space far better than I do, and I know that if I work with them, they'll make me sound good. Note that I say "professional" . . .

This past weekend, I had a show with a bunch of local friends, at a neighborhood venue, a sort of loosely-run (very loosely) community center housed in a de-certified diner. They don't serve food or drinks, they just rent out the space for performers, that kind of thing. The place is funky to the point of being just this side of run-down, but most of us in here have probably played or hung out in worse places.

The in-house sound system is a beater Yamaha mixer, a pair of powered speakers, and a shit-simple cable snake/stage box set-up. You have one of three 1/4-inch Mono jacks to plug into, and that's all; generally, we only use two. Most of us bring our own small mixers, if we need more channels or inputs. There's not much to it, so there's not much to trouble-shoot, if it acts up.

At best, the system is idiosyncratic, but there's one guy who's able to get it to work. This past weekend, however, he was nowhere to be found . . .

The guy who showed up is one of the owner/organizers of the space; apparently, that was his sole qualification for being put at the soundboard. As the first act set up, asking to be plugged in, he started whining (yes, really, whining) about how he isn't really sure which Inputs to try, and that was the start of our night. I think it took fifteen or twenty minutes for him to get them coming through the house system. It did not get better from there.

I'd helped organize this weekend's schedule so there'd be as little set-up and break-down between acts as reasonably possible; in fact, the last three performances were set up to run through my mixer so there'd be NO need to change any settings on the house system, at all, between acts. It should have been nearly effortless. If the sound guy just sat on his hands, and left everything alone, his work was all but done for him, yet somehow, he managed to lose the sound while we took our brief breaks between acts?!?!?!?

I try to maintain a pleasant, professional attitude, wherever and whenever I perform, but this guy truly tested my patience. At best, he was useless; two drunks and a blind monkey couldn't have done much worse, and they might have been fun to watch, at least. I have never walked out on a performance, but I think if I see this guy at the board again, I may have to. If I'd paid to rent the place for the night, I'd want my money back, to say the least.

Thanks for letting me rant.
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#2850206 - 04/18/17 08:16 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Sorry, folks, have to rant here. Grab a good hot cup of coffee, or bowl of whatever, and pull up a piece of floor . . .

Thanks for letting me rant.


Understandable. I've had similar experiences!
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#2850215 - 04/18/17 09:10 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Larryz Offline
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I think the best thing to do for a place like this is to bring your own PA amp and speakers (not just a mixer that you have to switch out with each act) and run it yourself or have one of your friends do it...that way you don't have to rely on an old pair of drunk Yamaha powered speakers that sounds like they are not working and a blind monkey LOL! cool

ps. oh yeah, it's OK to kill the Sound Guy LOL! Most of the real ones are very good and worth saving though! If a real one shows up, they can run my system any day LOL! cool


Edited by Larryz (04/18/17 09:13 AM)
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#2850226 - 04/18/17 10:01 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Larryz]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
I think the best thing to do for a place like this is to bring your own PA amp and speakers (not just a mixer that you have to switch out with each act).


Believe me, brother, I tried . . .

The first act only needed two Mono Ins, and that devolved into bad comedy, quickly. Knowing that my friend Bev and I were going to carry most of the night between us (we were essentially 3 of the 4 acts that night), I'd purposely arranged our rig such that once it was set up at the beginning of the night, no one should have to adjust anything.

I was on solo as the second act, then I did a Synth Duo with my friend Bev, who followed with a solo act of her own; no equipment changes, no mic levels to set, no live drums, no re-cabling whatsoever. We (Bev and I) were fully plugged in and cabled up at the beginning of the night, levels set, mixer channels on, no switching required. Like I say, all this guy had to do was sit on his hands, and everything would have gone smoothly; instead, he kept screwing with things he clearly had no idea how to work, and having to find his way back to where they'd worked. Beyond incompetent.

Next time, I'm bringing a blind monkey . . .
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#2850228 - 04/18/17 10:05 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Winston Psmith]
Scott Fraser Offline
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In this case, since an actual sound guy is not involved, then, yes, the killing is understood to be morally justified.
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#2850253 - 04/18/17 12:16 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Scott Fraser]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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It's even worse when you were supposed to get paid, but didn't, after the "sound guy"/"DJ" and his sorry @$$3d excuse for a PA and monitors that destroyed everything DID get paid... mad saber HeadPop rolleyes
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#2850276 - 04/18/17 01:14 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
It's even worse when you were supposed to get paid, but didn't, after the "sound guy"/"DJ" and his sorry @$$3d excuse for a PA and monitors that destroyed everything DID get paid... mad saber HeadPop rolleyes


Even if I'm playing without pay, the audience is still entitled to a professional presentation, period. I do everything within my power to make sure they get that, from making sure my gear is tight, to dressing up for the occasion. This is what we do, so either do it right or GTFO . . .

In fairness, I can't honestly accuse this guy of damaging anything, and even if he did manage to blow the house system, well, replacing it would be his problem, not ours. Maybe they'd even have to get something that really worked?

BTW, Scott: If only that argument would stand up in court . . .
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#2850284 - 04/18/17 01:41 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
It's even worse when you were supposed to get paid, but didn't, after the "sound guy"/"DJ" and his sorry @$$3d excuse for a PA and monitors that destroyed everything DID get paid... mad saber HeadPop rolleyes


Even if I'm playing without pay, the audience is still entitled to a professional presentation, period. I do everything within my power to make sure they get that, from making sure my gear is tight, to dressing up for the occasion. This is what we do, so either do it right or GTFO . . .

In fairness, I can't honestly accuse this guy of damaging anything, and even if he did manage to blow the house system, well, replacing it would be his problem, not ours. Maybe they'd even have to get something that really worked?

BTW, Scott: If only that argument would stand up in court . . .


FWIW, I was meaning that the so-called "sound-guy" destroyed the gig (not any of our gear) and made it difficult to perform- and got paid, after which the money was gone and there was none left to divvy-up, only excuses and empty promises of taking care of us further on down the road.

He couldn't have been much less professional- unless he'd been like a r@c!st Kay Kay Kay Elvis-impersonating pedal-steel player and PA/monitor-system owner that I once encountered, and unplugged... ! crazy

We'd originally offered to bring our own PA and monitors and let anyone and everyone use it- as did another band that was there playing before us- but we were assured that the PA and monitors were going to be provided. rolleyes
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#2850317 - 04/18/17 04:08 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Lokair Offline
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I being a sound guy with a sound mind have noticed lately that some DJs/karaoke guys seem to think they are sound guys. I have showed up at gigs in the last few years where I had run sound for bands and the guy only knows how to control volume. One place saw me and asked me to help out and the wife and I just left. I said f*** em, they could have paid me to come in and do a job. I have become jaded over the years, I was playing a gig last year and offered to bring my small pa for an extra 200$ and run it, they said no and said the sound guy would be there. Their sound guy had no monitor mix, only 4 mic ins , and like 700 watts of DJ power. Lucky for me and the guys we didn't need anything else but the other bands all went down in flames. I felt bad for the bands but what could I do.

Lok

Nowa days My PA sits, and its not a great pa, but when run by a sound guy it does a good job. I was gonna upgrade a couple of years ago to all powered speakers and subs and use my existing monitor set up till I noticed everyone was under cutting prices.
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#2850363 - 04/19/17 04:00 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Lokair]
whitefang Offline
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I'm unfamiliar with all this stuff. But what I found interesting( and dismaying) was that the gleep who DID show up couldn't bring himself to admit he was clearly WAY out of his element, apologize for it, and humbly ask any one of the performers( like you Winston, who sounded like you knew WAY more about it)for any assistance. Did he at least, whenever the sound WAS working, offer an apology to the patrons?

This guy sounds as if the average DUNCE CAP would be FORM FITTING on him! wink
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#2850432 - 04/19/17 10:06 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: whitefang]
Danzilla Offline
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Yet another reason I need to get out to one of your shows, WPS. Tin ear or not, I can at least troubleshoot a pathway and pretend to move a few sliders and knobs for ya.
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#2850436 - 04/19/17 10:17 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Danzilla]
Dannyalcatraz Online   content
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What you do is set the soundboard as needed, then give the fill-in sound guy a Fisher-Price toy soundboard as a distraction.
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#2850442 - 04/19/17 11:13 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Larryz Offline
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK8icdqw7i8 <---kind of like this guy LOL! cool
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#2850447 - 04/19/17 12:08 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
What you do is set the soundboard as needed, then give the fill-in sound guy a Fisher-Price toy soundboard as a distraction.


Good call!
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#2850454 - 04/19/17 12:57 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
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Originally Posted By: Larryz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK8icdqw7i8 <---kind of like this guy LOL! cool


No, man, he was going wireless.
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#2850460 - 04/19/17 01:43 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Winston Psmith Offline
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@Whitefang - no apology, no excuse. FWIW, if you've ever successfully connected your television to your DVD player & your cable box, that's a more complex process than this guy faced.

@Danzilla - with all respect, brother, anyone in this Forum (and I include Whitefang, despite his claim to honest ignorance) could have done as well or better than this guy. Sometimes, just knowing when NOT to touch anything is enough; this guy wasn't even that smart.

@Caevan - sorry to say, you win there. Once we got the sound On, more or less in spite of his efforts, there were no problems with it, as such, and we didn't get stiffed to pay for his screw-up. Doubleplusnotgood.

OTOH, I have a plan for revenge. If I ever see this guy again, I'm going to patch the Bad Comrade into a S/R loop feeding only the FOH sound. When the hounds of hell start baying out of the speakers, I'll insist that all the noise is coming from his system, not mine, and to prove it, when I switch back to my little KB Amp, the sound will be pristine. Let him spend the rest of the Summer trying to find the problem . . .
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#2850472 - 04/19/17 02:13 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Winston Psmith]
desertbluesman Offline
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Quote:
Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy?


Nah the gendarmes take a dim view of someone messing the place with sound guy guts spewed all over the place after the grizzly murder that some of them deserve. It is OK to fire them however, set everything @ flat, and tweak from there until pleasant, then get on stage and boogie......
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#2850495 - 04/19/17 05:00 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: desertbluesman]
harvey Offline
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So really, you're not actually killing a 'sound guy'...

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#2850510 - 04/19/17 07:04 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: harvey]
p90jr Offline
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In my experience, when I hear the title "venue owner/soundman" I usually have my spirits crash and accept that there is nothing I can do, this gig will suck... and I will be blamed for it sucking.

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#2850536 - 04/19/17 11:11 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Scott Fraser]
Larryz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Scott Fraser
Originally Posted By: Larryz
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK8icdqw7i8 <---kind of like this guy LOL! cool


No, man, he was going wireless.


LOL! Love the kids watching him work those knobs too! w00t
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#2850550 - 04/20/17 04:07 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
whitefang Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
What you do is set the soundboard as needed, then give the fill-in sound guy a Fisher-Price toy soundboard as a distraction.


grin

Sounds like what they did to Murray Wilson in one of them Beach Boys "biopics". Gave him a "dummy" board and sit him in front of the sound guy who was working the REAL one. wink

Yeah, I had NO problem hooking my TV up to all the other stuff(PLUS my home sound system). Nothing to it. But I STILL think you wouldn't want ME to be your sound guy. grin And maybe THAT might be a solution....

At the bar my ex worked at, I noticed each band they had come in used both their OWN board(s) and soundman. A few didn't even USE any of that. Just set up their amps like a "garage band" would, and still managed to sound OK. wink
Whitefang
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#2850768 - 04/21/17 04:34 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: whitefang]
Eric Iverson Offline
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For a few years I played in a band whose bandleader was a professional sound guy, and he definitely knew how to get a good mix for us, and train the guy sitting at the board.
At one point I played in a church band in a building with terrible acoustics. The pastors were clueless about music and the kids at the sound board also; our bandleader would work with them on getting a soundcheck, but the kids apparently had the "blind monkey urge" to fiddle with the controls just for the hell of it, even turning off the mikes for the singers and sax player, which DID make us want to kill them.
They miked my guitar amp, and I could hear myself fine; I don't know what the audience heard, LOL.
In that environment, the only thing they really cared about was that the music should be LOUD, and if the mix was muddy or worse, so what?
Anyway, me and the bandleader finally quit, because there was a lot of other nonsense going on.
Oh well, I'm still friends with those people, but don't want to PLAY there again, for LOTS of reasons, LOL.

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#2851053 - 04/22/17 01:31 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
What you do is set the soundboard as needed, then give the fill-in sound guy a Fisher-Price toy soundboard as a distraction.


Good call!


Reminds me of the tactic K Richards used when organizing the Chuck Berry documentary Hail Hail Rock & Roll.
Onstage amp & mic attenuated at the board; "real" amp under the stage.

Per the thread title, success in such matters is dependent on careful, uh, execution & a good escape plan.
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#2851631 - 04/25/17 06:21 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: d]
A String Administrator Offline
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We ALWAYS brought our own PA and mixing board. Sound was run by the band leader, on stage. There were no amps allowed and the monitors carried the FOH mix so we could hear what the audience heard. To be honest, when I was playing bass, I like it much better as I could hear exactly where I was in the mix. It was much more like studio playing.

Here is a vid where you can see the gear we used to hual with us to every gig (sans light show as it was an outdoor, day time gig). The smaller mixing board (We used to have a full sized one), power amps and then, in the second half of the video, the PA stacks.
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#2851697 - 04/25/17 09:11 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: A String]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: A String
We ALWAYS brought our own PA and mixing board. Sound was run by the band leader, on stage. There were no amps allowed and the monitors carried the FOH mix so we could hear what the audience heard. To be honest, when I was playing bass, I like it much better as I could hear exactly where I was in the mix. It was much more like studio playing.


Seems like an ideal set-up, balanced sound, and no ear fatigue from standing in front of a too-loud Amp rig. (Loved hearing Steppenwolf in there, BTW.) It's probably past time I looked into a small, portable PA system of my own, just to avoid this sort of problem.
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#2851719 - 04/25/17 10:00 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Winston Psmith]
A String Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
It's probably past time I looked into a small, portable PA system of my own, just to avoid this sort of problem.


Yeah. The "Butterfly Bin" system we had was CRAZY big and Crazy heavy but was what we needed for the larger gigs so that's what we bought. Now a days, you can get the same power with WAY less weight and size.
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#2851752 - 04/25/17 11:45 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: A String]
Larryz Offline
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That's a cool monster PA! I love being able to hear what the audience hears. I like being able to adjust my own settings but sometimes a good sound man can do a better job on the bigger venues. My set up(s) can go big and can also go small. I have matching PA amps, monitors and mains two systems in one (and can cover any breakdowns). I also have two smaller amp systems for solo busking stuff that can be incorporated as pre-mix monitors. I like the easy in/out light and swift equipment best. At my age, weight and size becomes a serious factor LOL!

Back in my gigging days, we had some huge black widow wooden cabs that were heavy and awkward, but they got the job done on bigger venues...we were packing our own guitar amps in those days (not-mic'ed) and my Fender Twin would keep up very well. We did have a soundman that could keep us posted on volume levels, and a lighting man for the night time gigs... cool
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#2851826 - 04/25/17 04:04 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Larryz]
A String Administrator Offline
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The Black widows were nice!

I loved this set up (we normally used a 24 channel, Hill studio board for mixing, that sounded amazing). Previous to this set up, we had Cerwin Vega, Mini_earth Quakes that were based off of the bass bins they used in theaters, for the movie "Earth Quake". Sadly, those burned up in a truck fire, along with all the rest of our gear, on the side of the road, one cold Winter morning.

Cool thing about those folded, buterfly bass bins was, they used to belong to Super Tramp. The handles, on the side, became a ladder for carrying up each subsequent piece as you added them.
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#2851882 - 04/25/17 10:16 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: A String]
Larryz Offline
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That reminds me of Planes, Trains and Automobiles when John Candy and Steve Martin are watching their rental car go up in flames on the side of the road! That truck fire would be hard to watch...hopefully you got back in business! cool


Edited by Larryz (04/25/17 10:17 PM)
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#2851931 - 04/26/17 05:59 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Larryz]
A String Administrator Offline
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Basically, we had EVERYTHING in the back of a cube van as it was a 4 month tour. PA, guitars, drums, light show (Par 64s, trellises, controllers....), ALL of our clothing, TV, VCR, tapes (some personal recordings I had made; songs I had written etc.), pictures...basically everything I owned that I wanted to have with me for a four month tour.

Myself and another band member were driving down the highway, on the way to a gig, in the middle of winter. Suddenly we see the car with the other two band members in it, pulling up beside us and yelling that they saw smoke. Seconds later, smoke starts pouring out of the doghouse (the rounded metal box that covers the engine, between the seats). We pulled over to the side of the road and opened the hood to see the engine, engulfed in flames.

We grabbed empty soda bottles and tried to break the water, in a ditch that ran along the side of the highway, but we could only get very small amounts at a time.

I tried to pull the doghouse off so we could see into the engine and maybe dump some snow or something on the fire to extinguish it but, being an idiot, I grabbed it directly and burned the palms of my hands. There was no way it was going to open. Moments later, fire started coming up though the floor under the seats and a few seconds after that, it started to move toward the back seating compartment. We knew we had to get the gear out.

We had fitted our cube van with a boxed in area, behind the seats, and installed two car seats for the other band members to sit in. It was open to the van but cut off from the back by walls and a ceiling. Because of this, it was effectively cut off from the gear so you figured we had time to save things. Running around back we lifted up the sliding door and started moving the luggage and personal things out onto the road (the luggage was always loaded in at the end so it could be brought to the rooms before we had to do the gear load out)

After a few minutes, the personal luggage and things were out and we started on the guitars and drums (in their flight cases). By this point, the back of the truck was filling with smoke. Our bass player, at the time, had to keep running off to the side of the road to puke as the smoke was getting to him. I myself could feel the smoke inhalation damage kicking in...

By the time we got the guitars out and started pulling parts of the PA, the smoke was too much and we retreated to the car, parked 20 feet or so behind the truck.

We all sat in the truck, suffering from mild smoke inhalation and me with burns on the palms of my hands. We watched as the truck was slowly engulfed in flames, sad that a lot of the bigger gear was going to burn up but SO glad that we had saved our personal things and guitars, effects etc.

Moments later, there was a sudden change in the wind. I watched as the flames changed direction and went from blowing toward the front of the truck, to blowing toward the back. To my horror, the huge pile of things, on the road behind the truck, was suddenly in the flames. It only took a few seconds for the pile of guitars and luggage to begin to burn. I sat and watch as all my things burned up in a huge pile, like a book burning...

Before we could do much more, an ambulance and fire truck arrived. They packed us off to the local hospital. I was treated for my burns and myself and the others were treated for smoke inhalation.

The owner of a hotel we played at and were really good friends with, put us up for the night.

The next day, we were called into the office at the fire department. As we drove up, I could see the metal frame of what used to be our truck, sitting in the lot. Black and charred.

In the office, the fireman gave us the "Only thing that survived the fire". It was a red tool box. Thanking him, we opened it up only to find it was full of melted plastic (from the handles of the screwdrivers and pliers etc.) not really good for much of anything.

All we could do at this point was cancel our tour and take time of to recover and regroup.
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#2851947 - 04/26/17 07:28 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: A String]
Larryz Offline
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That's one hell of a story and I'll bet you re-live it everyday. Sorry for your loss, especially after watching the second pile of all of your salvaged stuff go up in flames too! Hope you got back on the road, later down the road! cool
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#2851961 - 04/26/17 08:28 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Larryz]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Seriously, A String, my respect! It takes heart, and gonads, to pick back up after a loss like that!
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#2851999 - 04/26/17 10:10 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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That is one awful, sad story, Craig. I'm sorry that you and your band-mates went through that! But I'm glad that you weren't hurt, or worse.
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#2852059 - 04/26/17 01:07 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: d]
The Real MC Online   content
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Originally Posted By: d
Reminds me of the tactic K Richards used when organizing the Chuck Berry documentary Hail Hail Rock & Roll.
Onstage amp & mic attenuated at the board; "real" amp under the stage.


Keef is hardly alone...

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#2852082 - 04/26/17 02:42 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: The Real MC]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Originally Posted By: d
Reminds me of the tactic K Richards used when organizing the Chuck Berry documentary Hail Hail Rock & Roll.
Onstage amp & mic attenuated at the board; "real" amp under the stage.


Keef is hardly alone...


I remember this company used to offer a handful of Rack Fillers that looked impressive, but did nothing. For those clients who insist you change something on a perfect mix, it gave them knobs to play with. Seems like they're down to one product, now - The Palindrometer
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#2852087 - 04/26/17 03:09 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Originally Posted By: d
Reminds me of the tactic K Richards used when organizing the Chuck Berry documentary Hail Hail Rock & Roll.
Onstage amp & mic attenuated at the board; "real" amp under the stage.


Keef is hardly alone...


I remember this company used to offer a handful of Rack Fillers that looked impressive, but did nothing. For those clients who insist you change something on a perfect mix, it gave them knobs to play with. Seems like they're down to one product, now - The Palindrometer



I love it!

...Rats live on no evil staR...
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#2852408 - 04/28/17 07:55 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: A String]
d Offline
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Originally Posted By: A String
We ALWAYS brought our own PA and mixing board. Sound was run by the band leader, on stage. There were no amps allowed and the monitors carried the FOH mix so we could hear what the audience heard. To be honest, when I was playing bass, I like it much better as I could hear exactly where I was in the mix. It was much more like studio playing.

Here is a vid where you can see the gear we used to hual with us to every gig (sans light show as it was an outdoor, day time gig). The smaller mixing board (We used to have a full sized one), power amps and then, in the second half of the video, the PA stacks.


Like the general idea (hearing what THEY hear is best) but , uh, how'd the cat hear what the audience heard when he's onstage ?
Don't y' gotsta have somebody out onna floor ?


On the other, that's one sad but true kinda on the road story y' told abt the highway fire.
Been done & there; didn't get no T shirt !
wave
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#2852925 - 05/01/17 09:43 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: whitefang]
picker Offline
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Should you kill a soundman? Maybe. But NEVER piss one off...
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#2852940 - 05/01/17 11:21 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: picker]
Winston Psmith Offline
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Originally Posted By: picker
Should you kill a soundman? Maybe. But NEVER piss one off...


Damn straight!
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#2853012 - 05/01/17 04:06 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: A String]
desertbluesman Offline
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Originally Posted By: A String

All we could do at this point was cancel our tour and take time of to recover and regroup.


Gawd what a terrible thing to happen to you and the band. Happily none of the band burnt up with the gear.
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#2853036 - 05/01/17 06:55 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: desertbluesman]
Larryz Offline
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Originally Posted By: desertbluesman
Originally Posted By: A String

All we could do at this point was cancel our tour and take time of to recover and regroup.


Gawd what a terrible thing to happen to you and the band. Happily none of the band burnt up with the gear.


+1 Astring may have burnt his hands a little, but they all lived to play another day...and that's a Godsend! thu
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#2853901 - 05/06/17 12:31 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: d]
A String Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: d
Like the general idea (hearing what THEY hear is best) but , uh, how'd the cat hear what the audience heard when he's onstage ?
Don't y' gotsta have somebody out onna floor ?


Surprisingly, no. Once the sound test was done, at the front of house, the onstage monitors carried the same FOH mix, minus the drum levels. There were no amps allowed on stage so basically, we got to hear what they heard. Made it amazingly easy to fit into the mix as you were playing. Much more like studio playing.
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#2853912 - 05/06/17 01:19 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: A String]
d Offline
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Doesn't the room change a bit when it's full of ppl ?
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#2856368 - 05/20/17 12:58 PM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: d]
A String Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: d
Doesn't the room change a bit when it's full of ppl ?

Sure does. Can change quite a bit, too. But, we would always pop out , at least once, when the room was filling so he could hear and make a quick change. After MANY years (the band leader was on the road most of his adult life), he got to know the rooms and know the affects a crowd had on audio output/EQ levels.
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#2856459 - 05/21/17 04:13 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: A String]
whitefang Offline
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Wow. No amps on the STAGE? THAT'S gotta be convenient. rolleyes

But, I don't gig so what do I know? But a buddy of mine who was in a band until a few years back told me it can be harrowing at times. Places where there's not enough ROOM on the stage for both the band AND the amps with no space off stage to place the amps, and some venues WITHOUT a stage and they had to play at floor level and try to dodge drunken dancers and crap like that. I suppose for a sound guy, those kind of inconsistencies can be annoying if he doesn't command an encyclopedic knowledge of "venue variants". eek
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#2856483 - 05/21/17 08:02 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: whitefang]
A String Administrator Offline
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More than, "no amps on stage" it was basically "no amps". We all ran direct, into the board (well, the guitar player ran into his multi effect unit and THEN into the board. But, over all the sound was amazing.

Here is an example. This was taken from my monitor mix so my vocals and bass are slightly louder than the house mix and there are VERY little drums other than what you hear through the mics. But, you can still hear the guitar and he is ROCKIN' it.

http://string.endoftheinternet.org/music/downing/PrideandJoy.mp3
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#2856504 - 05/21/17 10:30 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: A String]
Larryz Offline
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I have a Fender Floor multi that is made for going direct to the PA which works very well for running an electric guitar to a PA. It has left and right xlr and 1/4" outs so you can run to one or two channels if you want to and it has a boat load of effects. It also has an onboard noise gate and a ground lift which comes in very handy. I do use one amp for the bass which has an xlr and volume control output, before running it to the PA. I have to mic the drums a little. But it is very cool when you run everything through the PA and then I take the recording line out and can playback what we just played during the breaks at my cabin jams. My monitors are the same as my mains so I can hear what the audience hears... cool

My little Roland EX4 Street Cube also allows me to plug in a mic and an electric or acoustic guitar. It has left and right 1/4" outs for going direct to the PA. I can premix my signals using it as a monitor (or as the PA at small solo venues) and turn the PA effects off as the reverb and delay are already added. This really allows me to use some cool dynamics and judge the level of my backup guitar and my vocal. My Fishman Solo amp will do the same thing... cool


Edited by Larryz (05/21/17 10:50 AM)
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#2856622 - 05/22/17 04:50 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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He certainly WAS "rockin' it" Astring! Was that YOU? or..WHO?

And DEFINITELY no gripe about the SOUND! like
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#2856636 - 05/22/17 06:54 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: whitefang]
A String Administrator Offline
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I was singing and playing the bass in that song. Both the bass and guitar were run direct into the board.
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#2856641 - 05/22/17 07:08 AM Re: Is It Ever Okay To Kill the Sound Guy? [Re: A String]
Larryz Offline
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Now that's what I call some Pride and Joy Astring! My favorite SRV tune. Great job on the bass and vocals and the lead player did great too! cool
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