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Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back


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But over the past year though I've seen more and more people try to jury rig their SS3 into a full range flat response system. Adding a sub. Then adding a quality powered speaker on top.

 

This caught my eye.

 

Yes, what I want is a 40 pound amp with the spread of the SS that is FRFR (full range, flat response).

 

And the journey continues.

..
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Yes, what I want is a 40 pound amp with the spread of the SS that is FRFR (full range, flat response).

 

The driver technology is already there from what I've read. Probably could be even lighter than current SS3 Lite, as it would involve using stronger, lighter magnets. Only problem would be the cost. Would there be a market for a SpaceStation-style amp if it cost twice as much?

 

Maybe Keyboard Corner should ask Aspen to start a Kickstarter/Indiegogo crowdfunded campaign to fund development of a high-end SSv4 and find out.

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But over the past year though I've seen more and more people try to jury rig their SS3 into a full range flat response system. Adding a sub. Then adding a quality powered speaker on top.

 

This caught my eye.

 

Yes, what I want is a 40 pound amp with the spread of the SS that is FRFR (full range, flat response).

 

And the journey continues.

 

Nailed it!!

KronosX, ssv3, Vpiano, fulcrum fa22ac, Rupert neve line mixer, tons of weird guitars, axe-fx ultra, a couple of nice tube amps (Elmwood and Carr)

Eventide Harmonizer

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Yeah, a while back a few of us were looking at upgrading individual components. Didn't end well. As in, a hugely upgraded coax, but leave the rest of the rig unmodified. The balance was lost.

 

The challenge is that it threw the mix off between the components, which is only something that can be addressed by the original designer :(

 

Here's my problem. I'm willing to pay for upgraded components (always) but not willing to deal with massive form factor, as in the forthcoming XL model.

 

If you expect me to schlep the weight of the XL model, all sorts of other very interesting approaches come into play ..

Want to make your band better?  Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band"

 

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-(L-R) = R-L = (Everything unique to R) + (-1 * Everything Unique to L) PianoMan's item #7

Where does this step occur with the SS3?

If I understand correctly, R-L is what comes out the "back" of the SS3's open side speaker, which is to say it's simply the 180-degrees-out-of-phase inverse of the L-R signal emitted from the front of that speaker.

MathOfInsects posted (can't get 4 level quoting to work :( ):

Thanks. I wondered if that's what it referred to. I don't think it's technically correct as written then. Isolating "everything unique to R" would require different information from that which is coming from the front of that side-firing speaker, no? I agree with the transitive math, I think the explanation might just be slightly off.

 

JazzPiano88 Replies:

"Everything unique to R" is just a wordy phrase for "All of the content in R that is not identical to anything in L"

 

L-R is generated electronically but can mentally be pictured (at least to me) as: (Everything unique to L) - (Everything unique to R)

 

I skipped some steps above, so combining the mental and math:

L-R = (All of L) - (All of R)

= (L unique + L Identical to R) - (R Unique + R Identical to L)

= (L unique) - (R unique) + (L Identical to R) - (R Identical to L)

 

the last two terms cancel giving:

 

(L-R) = (L unique) - (R unique) = (L unique) + -1.0*(R unique)

 

 

J a z z  P i a n o 8 8

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Yeah, a while back a few of us were looking at upgrading individual components. Didn't end well. As in, a hugely upgraded coax, but leave the rest of the rig unmodified. The balance was lost.

 

The challenge is that it threw the mix off between the components, which is only something that can be addressed by the original designer :(

 

Here's my problem. I'm willing to pay for upgraded components (always) but not willing to deal with massive form factor, as in the forthcoming XL model.

 

If you expect me to schlep the weight of the XL model, all sorts of other very interesting approaches come into play ..

I just have this feeling I'm going to get one...with the inputs and outputs you could run a wet and dry signal into it and dial in the wet to taste....if I'm looking at it right that is

KronosX, ssv3, Vpiano, fulcrum fa22ac, Rupert neve line mixer, tons of weird guitars, axe-fx ultra, a couple of nice tube amps (Elmwood and Carr)

Eventide Harmonizer

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When I first saw pics of the SS3 I imagined something the size of the XL. It was only when I realized how small it was that I fully determined I had to have one for its magical stereo properties. I've had a lot of fun over the last two years trying out different approaches to its shortcomings. It's still my goto amp if I don't need bottom end and I know it won't be too loud.

 

There's only one band situtation where I definitely will not use the SS3, and that's because the drummer in this band seems to hate it when he can hear me at all, or at least he can't hear the guitar over the top of everything. He used to get pretty nasty about my volume. I guess it demonstrates how well the sound fills the room. Anybody else experienced this?

Legend Live, Leslie 251/147, Yamaha UX1, CP4, CK61, Hammond SK1, Ventilator, Privia PX3, Behringer 2600, Korg Triton LE, various guitars and woodwinds, drum kits …

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JazzPiano88 Replies:

"Everything unique to R" is just a wordy phrase for "All of the content in R that is not identical to anything in L"

 

L-R is generated electronically but can mentally be pictured (at least to me) as: (Everything unique to L) - (Everything unique to R)

 

I skipped some steps above, so combining the mental and math:

L-R = (All of L) - (All of R)

= (L unique + L Identical to R) - (R Unique + R Identical to L)

= (L unique) - (R unique) + (L Identical to R) - (R Identical to L)

 

the last two terms cancel giving:

 

(L-R) = (L unique) - (R unique) = (L unique) + -1.0*(R unique)

 

 

Let me try this one more time. 'Unique' is undefined. 'Not Identical' is undefined. Fugetaboutit . These terms make understanding about this stuff impossible.

 

1). L is what comes from the Left output on your keyboard.

2). R is what comes from the Right output on your keyboard.

 

3). L+R is the strict summation of the two signals.

(This is the same as using the 'Mono' Left only jack on most boards.)

 

4). L-R is strictly the sum of the L signal plus the phase inverted R signal.

(You might get this if your mixer has a phase button. Or as Zaphod B. has pointed out, if you apply the L and R signals to the two input pins of a balanced XLR input, the input amplifier will output the difference: L-R)

 

This was all done back in 30s or 40s when M/S was invented and used. There's no DSPs, no algorithms, no secret sauce. They didn't have any then, and didn't need it. Just '+' and '-'.

 

This is easy to do in software, or in a well-featured digital mixer, or with a few OpAmps. What's missing from my perspective is a piece of commercially available hardware, most likely a mixer, that can output both L+R and L-R.

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GEEZ!

 

Front is everything.

 

Sides are basically zero anything panned center. If it's panned hard L or R it's loudest, and proportional everything in between center and L or R. On the SS, L and R are out of phase.

 

DONE

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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GEEZ!

 

Front is everything.

 

Sides are basically zero anything panned center. If it's panned hard L or R it's loudest, and proportional everything in between center and L or R. On the SS, L and R are out of phase.

 

DONE

 

Cool! You've described the end product. I've described how you do it. Two sides to the same coin. Done?

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4). L-R is strictly the sum of the L signal plus the phase inverted R signal.

 

Finally. Now it makes sense.

 

Thank you.

 

After years of reading your posts, with many thoughtful and interesting observations, you are welcome, and I'm pleased to have helped.

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Got mine last night and really like it so far...except there is a noticeable rattle when playing bass notes in a certin range. So I'll be sending it back for an exchange in the morning. Darn...

Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact

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There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman

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Make sure the unwanted sound isn't coming from the Sub Out. A "farting" sound has been reported from there. Putting a "dead" plug in the Sub Out mutes that sound.

 

Yes, I tried that to no avail. This is more like I'm hitting the resonant frequency of the cabinet..causing something to rattle. Above and below a definite range of notes it is fine.

 

Thanks for the response though.

Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact

www.stickmanor.com

There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman

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Yeah, I've had a rattle before that was due to the tweeter that screws into the back of the coaxial speaker becoming slightly loose.

 

Check with Aspen - I told him about this issue, and he said they had run into that a few times before. It's a really easy fix - you just take off the panel, reach in, and screw the tweeter more tightly into the main speaker.

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When I first got mine a couple of months ago, there was a buzzing/rattling, only when playing a few specific notes from the organ IIRC. I was worried about having to open it up and tighten things down, as others here have described.

 

But it turned out to be the fuse cover rattling against the housing of the plastic power supply connector part. On the back of the amp, the part I'm talking about is the black plastic housing where you plug in a three-prong power cord. The fuse cover is between the plug socket and the power switch, and it's flush with the black housing, so it's easy to miss.

 

I used electrical tape to secure it -- just put a single piece of tape, cut to size, over the entire fuse cover to secure it to the plastic housing -- and the rattle went away.

 

And THEN I could hear the (much quieter) "farting" noise from the unused SUB send. Plugged this up with a bare 1/4" plug, and that worked great. A little worried about the plug sticking out past the profile of the back panel (if I leave the plug in there while transporting, and it gets caught on something, it could snap or bend) so I used wirecutters to trim away the parts of the plug that stuck out, leaving just a little "stub" in there. This way it can be safely left in there all the time, and only removed when I'm actually using the SUB out.

 

Things to try before you take it apart, anyway. Hope it helps!

 

MODX7, Alesis QS8, Hammond XK-2, DSI Tetra

QSC K8.2 x2, CPS Spacestation v.3

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Thanks everyone. I tried tightening all the screws (internal and external) and also made sure the coax tweeter was tight. I didn't think about the fuse apparatus. It did not make the rattle when I unscrewed and separated the back panel, so that might be an interesting theory. Unfortunately, I just dropped the unit off at fedex for an exchange. If the next one rattles, I'll definitely check that.

Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact

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There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman

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When I need more than the Spacestation for my little one man band MIDI show I usually pair it with my small JBL 510s, also in stereo, with my mixer's Main Outs going to the JBLs and the Monitor Out going to my SSV3, so that I have independent control.

 

Last Friday I decided to pair it with my new Electro-Voice ZLX-12P, in the same mixer configuration. It sounded good, but not much different than the JBLs.

 

On Saturday night, I hit on the perfect way to set this up, for me anyway. I ran the EV from my Effect Send (Pre) instead of the Main Outs. This way, I could just dial in each channel as desired. For me, that means bass, drums, and a little keys and no vocals - I like the way my vocals sound from just the SSV3. I also had the SSV3 sitting sideways on an amp stand for full blooming effect. What a huge difference this setup made. And since bass/kick/snare were the main sounds bolstered by the EV I really didn't sacrifice any stereo.

The fact there's a Highway To Hell and only a Stairway To Heaven says a lot about anticipated traffic numbers

 

People only say "It's a free country" when they're doing something shitty-Demetri Martin

 

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I had an opportunity to spend a few days testing the new slimmed down version of the Spacestation, and putting it up against my unit made nearly 2½ years ago.

 

Long story short: in a double-blind shootout both I and a golden ears friend and colleague, keyboardist/composer Chris Rhyne, had a very slight preference for the sound of the new one as compared to mine. The new one has a fractionally clearer sound, the fact that it's about 9 pounds lighter is a huge benefit, and I love that the knobs no longer stick out slightly.

 

In our testing the variables which made far more of a difference in sound, rather than the composition of the cabinet or difference in power supplies, were proximity to a wall, addition of a sub, or simply making minor adjustments to the onboard EQ on my Nord. Chris commented that he'd be delighted to take either Spacestation home with him.

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Can you give us more detail about when you added a sub Alan? Position, hook-up, sound etc.

 

I thought I had a handle on this speaker, but since hearing that the "sub out" is actually "full sound spectrum out", I'm wondering if perhaps an EV or a DXR 10 might be a better match.

 

Many thanks,

 

SSM

Occasionally, do something nice for a total stranger. They'll wonder what the hell is going on!
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Can you give us more detail about when you added a sub Alan? Position, hook-up, sound etc.

It was only after Chris and I decided that any difference between the two Spacestations was a wank, or that we had an ever so slight preference for the sound of what turned out to be the new one.

 

I then added a B1 bass module from my Bose L1 Model II system, powered by a PackLite Model A1 amp. I had it sitting several inches away from the front of the side speaker (stage left of the SSv3). I plugged the left side of the Nord into the A1, then came out its pass thru into the left input on the Spacestation. (The levels were a better match doing it this way rather than using the sub out.) Chris, sitting at the keyboard, didn't immediately notice the difference when I switched it on, but then missed the extra warmth the moment I switched it off.

 

I'm going to play around, perhaps in a few days, with sending the bass module a groomed signal by way of a mixer send into an EQ, or a separate out from MainStage with a low pass filter inserted. Clearly there are better, certainly more versatile choices for use as a sub in a non-Bose setup; it's just what I had handy.

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The whole notion of SSv3 plus (additional speaker) has proven to be useful for me on occasion.

 

For example, on one gig where I had a lot of synth bass parts, I dragged along a 1000w sub. Low frequencies are highly omnidirectional, so no stereo magic needed in that range. Sounded awesome, although it took a moment or two to match levels between the two units.

 

For quieter gigs with lots of acoustic piano, it's the patented Al Quinn face-on-the-floor position with a nice full-range PA unit centered on top of the side-firing unit. Again, great sounding once the levels are adjusted.

 

That being said, 4 out of 5 times it's just the SSv3 by itself. Nice that it can be augmented in different directions without too much grief.

Want to make your band better?  Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band"

 

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When I first got mine a couple of months ago, there was a buzzing/rattling, only when playing a few specific notes from the organ IIRC. I was worried about having to open it up and tighten things down, as others here have described.

 

But it turned out to be the fuse cover rattling against the housing of the plastic power supply connector part. On the back of the amp, the part I'm talking about is the black plastic housing where you plug in a three-prong power cord. The fuse cover is between the plug socket and the power switch, and it's flush with the black housing, so it's easy to miss.

 

I used electrical tape to secure it -- just put a single piece of tape, cut to size, over the entire fuse cover to secure it to the plastic housing -- and the rattle went away.

 

 

Well, I got my replacement via FedEx today, turned it on, and same problem. Sure enough, I put my finger on the fuse cover and it goes away. Thanks for the tip!

Yamaha CK88, Arturia Keylab 61 MkII, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Casio CT-S500, Mac Logic/Mainstage, iPad Camelot, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2, JBL EON One Compact

www.stickmanor.com

There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman

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