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#2848791 - 04/12/17 04:48 AM Yamaha MX88-BK
The_Star_Guy Offline
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Went to the local Guitar Center and came across an unexpected item on display. Yamaha appears to have joined a number of other manufacturers in the sub $1000 weighted 88 key synth arena with a newly released 88 key version of the updated MX-BK 49/61 synths. The action appears to be similar to the GHS action used on the 88 key MOXF. I played it for about 20 minutes with a MOXF8 nearby. According to labels on the MX88-BK, it also appears to directly support the FM Essentials app as well. For those without access to an 8 element Motif and in need of a weighted Yamaha 88 note action in their setups this could be worth investigating as an alternative to the Casio PX-5S and the Juno DS-88.
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#2848798 - 04/12/17 05:21 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: The_Star_Guy]
Dockeys Offline
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that's weird. No sign of any announcement online nor did I see any coverage of one at Musikmesse??? Might make sense as a cutdown version of the MOXF but the MOXF is itself already a cutdown version of the XF series. If the weight was a good bit lighter then Id be interested in trying one tho I don't really enjoy the GHS action. Anyone see any information online for this?
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#2848803 - 04/12/17 05:42 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: Dockeys]
AnotherScott Offline
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Well, it makes sense, as Yamaha hasn't really had a competitor in the lightweight-88-under-a-grand category to go against the PX5S/DS88 mentioned and also the Kross. They've had the MM8, but it's really old and doesn't stack up well against it's competitors, in features or in sound. It's 10 years old already, and even when it came out, it was a low-cost repackage of Motif sounds that were already years old.

Though personally, I would have liked to see a lightweight (non hammer action) 7x key version of the MX.
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#2848895 - 04/12/17 10:29 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: AnotherScott]
The_Star_Guy Offline
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The MX series is based upon the Motif XS architecture and does not include an on-board sequencer like the MOXF, although it is capable of some very interesting multiple layer options when used in performance mode and edited from an external editor. The S08 and MM8 were Yamaha's earlier budget 88 note boards, based upon the S-80 and Motif ES, respectively.
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#2848910 - 04/12/17 11:13 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: The_Star_Guy]
allan_evett Offline
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Star Guy, are you sure you didn't dream this last night ? wink

I Googled MX-88, and this is what came up for Yamaha's site:



Yamaha, Discontinued Product
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#2848917 - 04/12/17 11:42 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: allan_evett]
The_Star_Guy Offline
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Ha ha! Guess I should have taken photos! My GC had two, one on display which I played for 20 minutes, and one still in a sealed box. Since it had a marketing display label highlighting the fact that it supported FM Essentials (which is also a new app) it is definitely a new product. Do a Google search for MX88-BK, and you will find that Yamaha applied for & registered the FCC MSIP ID for the name on 1/26/2017 of this year. It was not my imagination, as I was actually in the market for a Digital Piano for my gig setup. I also played the new RD-2000 again (2nd time) as well.
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#2848939 - 04/12/17 01:10 PM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: The_Star_Guy]
allan_evett Offline
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Interesting....

How did you like the MX88, as compared to other keyboards in that price range ? First impressions ?
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#2848943 - 04/12/17 01:15 PM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: allan_evett]
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#2849012 - 04/12/17 07:28 PM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: CEB]
The_Star_Guy Offline
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Okay.....well, the saga continues...

Apparently, I was in the right place at the wrong time yesterday, as the GC where I saw this yesterday had it pulled off the floor today. The official GC release date is the 20th, but Yamaha shipped it in early and it was supposed to be "on hold" status & stored safely in the back room until then. So you get to tease me for 8 more days... laugh . I just hope that no one got in trouble over this!


As for basic sound comparisons, IMHO it beats the Kross hands down. The PX5S might have a (slightly) faster action but the MX88 BK sounds better to my ears. Only the Juno DS88 seems competitive, as it does have the pads & a number of flexible features. As a basic pro-level keyboard the Yamaha is a good value, and even if the GHS action is not to everyone's taste it is far from unplayable, & plays very well with the voices that I tried. It is a great option to add weighted keys to a stage setup for someone who is primarily synth/organ based. The real question would be if this updated model includes the full XS waveform ROM, or still uses a truncated version like the original MX? Only 8 more days to find out.....


Edited by The_Star_Guy (04/13/17 05:51 AM)
Edit Reason: clarification & spelling
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#2849018 - 04/12/17 07:52 PM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: The_Star_Guy]
aronnelson Offline
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> IMHO it beats the Cross hands down

It may beat the Cross but no way does it beat the Kross!!!!
Not when the Kross has a TR-808 style step sequence, drum loop, and arpeggiator on every program. Plus a sequencer, stereo audio recorder and battery power!
:-)
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#2849019 - 04/12/17 07:53 PM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: The_Star_Guy]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: The_Star_Guy
As for basic comparisons, IMHO it beats the Cross hands down.

Compared to MX, I think it falls out this way: Kross has better MIDI controller and sequencer functions, audio recorder, bigger (more informative) display, more on-board editing, mic input, battery operation, more simultaneous effects. But I think the Yamaha generally comes out ahead in sound, polyphony, USB/DAW integration and presumably action.
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#2849026 - 04/12/17 08:22 PM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: AnotherScott]
miden Offline
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So would the Kross be better than a Krome (oddly enough) or is the Krome in another market demographic again?
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#2849028 - 04/12/17 08:36 PM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: miden]
AnotherScott Offline
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Kross has some advantages over Krome (lighter weight, 16 dedicated patch select buttons, step sequencer, mic/line in, battery operation, audio recording) but Kross has a lot more wave memory (especially piano/EP), more polyphony, touchscreen interface. So, it depends...


Edited by AnotherScott (04/13/17 06:13 AM)
Edit Reason: whoops!
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#2849030 - 04/12/17 08:38 PM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: AnotherScott]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Krome has some advantages over Kross (lighter weight, 16 dedicated patch select buttons, step sequencer, mic/line in, battery operation, audio recording) but Kross has a lot more wave memory (especially piano/EP), more polyphony, touchscreen interface. So, it depends...


You have that backwards smile

Krome has the touch screen, etc..etc...
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#2849069 - 04/13/17 01:27 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: EscapeRocks]
aronnelson Offline
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The Kross is not supposed to be very good since it is so cheap, but on the gig -this thing spits fire! You can get crazy soloing sounds and the analog synth brass kills through a QSC. I paid for it with one gig and I love it.

It's good enough to cover a gig or jam session and it only weights around 9 pounds. The drum loops are fun to jam over and it really does sound better than it should.

The piano sound is nothing to talk about but with a band - it cuts and people like the sound of it.
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#2849085 - 04/13/17 05:46 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: aronnelson]
The_Star_Guy Offline
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Originally Posted By: aronnelson


It's good enough to cover a gig or jam session and it only weights around 9 pounds.


The 88 key version of the Kross is listed as having a weight of 27.3 lbs.

Allan asked for my first impressions of the MX88-BK after a brief 20 minute audition. IMHO, given the differences in both sound quality and keyboard action between the Korg Kross and the Yamaha at the same price point, I would be swayed to the Yamaha. However, the Korg Kross unquestionably has one of the most intuitive & easy to use interfaces around, and would probably excel for use in a live gig situation. I hope that clarifies my earlier statements.
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#2849093 - 04/13/17 06:16 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: EscapeRocks]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks
You have that backwards smile

Thanks, fixed! Hopefully it didn't throw anyone... in the context of the previous posts, it was obviously an accidental word-flip, but especially by itself... yup, whoops!
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#2849095 - 04/13/17 06:28 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: aronnelson]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: aronnelson
The Kross is not supposed to be very good since it is so cheap, but on the gig -this thing spits fire! You can get crazy soloing sounds and the analog synth brass kills through a QSC. I paid for it with one gig and I love it.

It's good enough to cover a gig or jam session and it only weights around 9 pounds. The drum loops are fun to jam over and it really does sound better than it should.

Yeah, it's a fun little board, and especially if you're focussing on its synthier sounds. It's mostly the acoustic instrument sounds where they tend to fall behind Yamaha. And yeah, you can't beat the light weight in a 61. Out of the Roland/Yamaha/Casio competition, it's the lightest by 1-2 pounds. Though if you want more of the focus on acoustic sounds and are willing to drop to 49 keys, you can get lighter with an MX49, whose action is a bit better too.
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#2849573 - 04/14/17 11:24 PM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: AnotherScott]
DecentJam Offline
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https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-MX88BK-Keyboard-Production-Station/dp/B06XSRMGM8

Disappointed if that's correct. Same size as the MOXF8 and only 2 lbs lighter. Was hoping it would be more compact and compete with the PX-5S.

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#2849576 - 04/15/17 12:01 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: DecentJam]
JohnH Offline
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Delete


Edited by JohnH (04/15/17 03:07 AM)

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#2850541 - 04/20/17 12:36 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: JohnH]
The_Star_Guy Offline
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#2850543 - 04/20/17 01:00 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: The_Star_Guy]
aronnelson Offline
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>Though if you want more of the focus on acoustic sounds and are willing to drop to 49 keys, you can get lighter with an MX49, whose action is a bit better too.

I found the mx keyboard to be bad as well and most of the demo keys were broken which swayed me to the Kross. I like the programming power of the Kross a lot more than the MX at the time. Don't regret getting it at all.

I would assume the new MX88 to be much better.
If it has the usual GH action - it will be great! I love the Yamaha weighted action!


Edited by aronnelson (04/20/17 01:01 AM)
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#2850544 - 04/20/17 01:28 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: aronnelson]
zephonic Offline
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To me, it looks better than the MOXF8. But that doesn't take much.




I hope it doesn't have the flimsy plastic that seems to be standard on current low-budget models. If a relatively small company like StudioLogic (or Arturia) can build them with better materials at low prices, surely Yamaha/Roland/Korg can make that happen with their vastly larger yields?
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#2850547 - 04/20/17 02:16 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: DecentJam]
Dockeys Offline
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Originally Posted By: DecentJam
https://www.amazon.com/Yamaha-MX88BK-Keyboard-Production-Station/dp/B06XSRMGM8

Disappointed if that's correct. Same size as the MOXF8 and only 2 lbs lighter. Was hoping it would be more compact and compete with the PX-5S.


I didn't think it was going to be much lighter than the MOXF8. That's already got the plastic chassis and the keyed is nearly always the heaviest part of an 88 key keyboard. I remember taking apart my old Yamaha S90 and when I removed the keyed it felt like it weighed about 90% of the actual unit weight. And that had a metal chassis.

Still if Casio can do relatively good action with the PX5s and the PX560 and keep them around the 10/11kgs mark you got to wonder why can't Yamaha?

Looks like a pretty good entry level keyboard. You still get some great Motif sounds though it they just say "Motif" and not XS of XF so the Motif "sound" could be from an older generation and is pretty long in the tooth these days. Seems to be limited to layering only two sounds and one split point?
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#2850561 - 04/20/17 05:04 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: Dockeys]
The_Star_Guy Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dockeys

Looks like a pretty good entry level keyboard. You still get some great Motif sounds though it they just say "Motif" and not XS of XF so the Motif "sound" could be from an older generation and is pretty long in the tooth these days. Seems to be limited to layering only two sounds and one split point?


The original MX series is based upon the 8 element Motif XS sound set. Not sure about the split point limitations but the original MX series also had some pretty amazing performance layering capabilities...provided that you used the free external VycroMX editor. There was a limit as to what can be done directly from the front panel, but if you edited & created your performances beforehand on computer and then saved them you could have some amazing super stacked performance multi-layers. We have yet to explore as to what can be done with this updated version.
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#2850563 - 04/20/17 05:16 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: Dockeys]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: aronnelson
>Though if you want more of the focus on acoustic sounds and are willing to drop to 49 keys, you can get lighter with an MX49, whose action is a bit better too.

I found the mx keyboard to be bad as well and most of the demo keys were broken which swayed me to the Kross. I like the programming power of the Kross a lot more than the MX at the time. Don't regret getting it at all.

I would assume the new MX88 to be much better.
If it has the usual GH action - it will be great! I love the Yamaha weighted action!

The reason I said that the MX49 action is a bit better than the Kross 61 is that the Kross action is less consistent from front to back. For the same effect, you need to use more force toward the back of the keys than you do at the front, and i's also harder to control dynamics in general when playing there. It's not so much of an issue on the Yamaha.

As for the MX88, it uses the GHS action like the MOX8, not the GH action of boards like the CP40 and P255.

Originally Posted By: zephonic
To me, it looks better than the MOXF8
...
I hope it doesn't have the flimsy plastic that seems to be standard on current low-budget models.

I think that squared-off looking picture is misleading, and it's actually using the same kind of chassis as the MOX8 in shape and material. The cleaner squared off look of the pic is appealing through. Kind of reminds me of the GrandStage.

Originally Posted By: Dockeys
Still if Casio can do relatively good action with the PX5s and the PX560 and keep them around the 10/11kgs mark you got to wonder why can't Yamaha?

"X can do it so why can't Y" sounds logical, but actually isn't. Companies are made of people, who all have different skill sets and talents... the intellectual and design resources of the companies are not interchangeable. It's like saying, pitcher X is getting everyone out, why can't pitcher Y? Or, Keith Emerson could play that, why can't you? (Though maybe you can. ;-) ) Besides that, the first company to design something a certain way often has patents. So then it's up to company Y to design something just as good, without doing it the way company X did.

But kudos to Casio for their current design. It wasn't that long ago that their lightweight piano action was worse than Yamaha's. i.e. I though the PX-130/PX-330 design felt worse than Yamaha's competitive GHS... and actually worse than some of Casio's earlier boards, for that matter. Sometimes designs that are improvements in one way--in this case, adding a third sensor--can be worse in another.

As for whether or not Yamaha is actually working one improving the design, well, who knows. It's not like no one is buying the one they have. ;-)

Originally Posted By: Dockeys
Looks like a pretty good entry level keyboard. You still get some great Motif sounds though it they just say "Motif" and not XS of XF so the Motif "sound" could be from an older generation and is pretty long in the tooth these days. Seems to be limited to layering only two sounds and one split point?

Assuming this is electronically identical to the non-88 versions of the MX, the soundset is from the Motif XS, though it doesn't include all the sounds that the XS did (166 mb wave data vs. 355). Correct about a front panel limit of layering two sounds and one split point, though you can go beyond that with a software editor, i.e. http://vycromx.com
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#2850576 - 04/20/17 06:53 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: AnotherScott]
nickd Offline
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Forgive my ignorance, but what does this offer compared to the MOX8 Yamaha sold in 2011?

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#2850579 - 04/20/17 07:03 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: nickd]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: nickd
Forgive my ignorance, but what does this offer compared to the MOX8 Yamaha sold in 2011?

About $600 more in your pocket, as I recall.

Also, simpler operation. Yeah, it's not as capable, but some people are turned off or overwhelmed by the complexity of the more Motif-like Yamahas, and don't need the other features.
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#2850583 - 04/20/17 07:18 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: AnotherScott]
nickd Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: nickd
Forgive my ignorance, but what does this offer compared to the MOX8 Yamaha sold in 2011?

About $600 more in your pocket, as I recall.

Also, simpler operation.


Fair points! Just seems like Yamaha haven't progressed in 6 years...

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#2850590 - 04/20/17 07:52 AM Re: Yamaha MX88-BK [Re: nickd]
The_Star_Guy Offline
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The original MOX8 was only 64 note polyphonic, and also used an older firmware that didn't support many of the more current enhanced operational developments. It did have an on-board sequencer as well, which the MX88-BK does not have. Connected to a laptop or IOS device however, & the MX88-BK offers quite a bit of improved functionality, including the ability to play back connected IOS apps directly thru the MX88-BK's integrated USB hardware DAC connectivity. It also has a much more streamlined interface compared to the MOX8, which may be it's best feature for many non-Yamaha-types. We will need the operators manual to confirm other features, of course, whenever that becomes available.
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