slowtraveler Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 In case any European friends are wondering, I enquired directly with Thomann and they said the ones they have in stock are all from August 2016, so on this basis it doesn't sound like they have any of the 'v5s'. Did Thomann provide information based on unit serial numbers, or on the dates they received shipments? Based on Aspen's previous posts regarding production runs and serial numbers, I'd suspect that SpaceStation units with serial numbers ending in "0816" (assuming any such units exist) could actually be from production run #9, which Aspen described as the first run to incorporate the "v5" changes. Unless he's made public statements elsewhere about the relevant dates and serial number ranges, weight may be the only reliable way (other than internal inspection) to characterize SS units produced during 2016. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tfort Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 I've been looking at the Spacestation, primarily for acoustic piano sounds in smaller spaces. I was worried that the new version might not be as good for that purpose, so wrote Aspen for his take. He responded the next day. First of all, what the thread has been calling v3 and v4 he considers the same, and what the thread has been calling v5 he likes to call the "SS3 Lite." He thinks the SS3 Lite sounds essentially the same, if not better, than it did before. From his email to me: "First off, there has only ever been ONE SS3 amp, nothing had changed in the first 8 runs except a very few minor improvements like adding a cover, one side speaker additional hi pass filter and an increasing of the wire lengths on a few cable assemblies for easier servicing. And, none of these 'fixes' changed the weight at all. These first 8 runs of my SS3 amps (so called because it was the 3rd version of the Spacestation) all weighed about 39 lbs from the start. There was some confusion as our first spec sheet we packed with the v.3 used a weight spec from the old SS MK2 spec sheet that showed 42 lbs. That was the weight of the old MK2, not the new SS3. There were no SS v.3 amps that weighed 42 lbs. Sorry about that, it was a misprint on the early spec sheet and also that spec went up on the Sweetwater page too. Then with run #9, which arrived here late last year, I significantly upgraded the SS3 in two ways; 1) we switched over to a DPSU (Digital Power Supply Unit) replacing the heavier and less efficient linear power transformer. FYI, the power supply is NOT in the audio chain, but is the component that converts external AC wall current to internal DC current that supplies the audio amps. Think of this as a better battery...nothing more. And 2) we changed over from particle board (MDF) to plywood for the cabinet...to add strength and prevent stripping of screws that held things together....as we had some complaints about that. We didn't do these upgrades to lighten the SS3, but to improve it's performance and durability...but the fact that we lost about 7 lbs, now weighing in about 32 lbs...was an additional benefit." I asked Aspen about whether the original SSv3 might be better than the the SS3 Lite for acoustic piano reproduction, and he strongly believed no: Logically speaking, there really should be NO difference b/w the latest run and all previous SS3 runs because we did not change ANY of the critical audio path components; Run #9 has EXACTLY the same speakers, same amps, and same design. Then also, the new and better DSPU actually had higher supply ratings. It is possible the lighter weight cab could make a small difference in the extreme low frequency of the SS3, but since the SS3 is not really a sub cabinet it is not noticed at all. I asked him specifically about any muddiness/lack of midrange clarity and lower SPL in the SS3 Lite, and he said they did extensive testing before moving forward with the changes and their testing didn't show anything like that (he even forwarded me some testing numbers). His best guess was that a midrange driver on that particular unit might be loose, but he was a bit baffled to be honest. Aspen was very responsive to concerns that the new lighter model was in any way sonically inferior than before. He offered a money back guarantee on the SS3 Lite, and offered to pay for shipping both ways if I wanted to try one on a gig, or arrange a loaner if I lived near a retail partner (I don't). He extended that offer to any forum members. I'm not in a rush to buy anything right now, but all in all I feel reassured that the SS3 Lite is probably no worse than before and is likely still the best amplification option for what I'd need. I'd still like to compare one directly against some of the less expensive line array systems, but on price and potential benefits with stereo patches I think I'm leaning toward the Spacestation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Aspen did contact me and offer to try and figure out what was happening with my unit/get me a new one...but only if I let him back on to the forum. I had to decline. I know what I hear, guys. My band noticed it (multiple members, without being told). My wife noticed it. zxcvbnm098 noticed it. I have yet to show it to someone who didn't notice it. Both units were here for close to two weeks for anyone who wanted to come over and listen for themselves; moreover, I have nothing to gain by reporting what I'm hearing other than to share my experience of having had both versions. I want the newer one I have to sound like the older one... I do not believe the midrange driver on my unit is loose. That doesn't sound like what I'm hearing at all. It sounds like the unit is working too hard somewhere, and that the dynamic range has changed. It's especially noticeable when I play piano in the midrange - it's almost like the program hasn't got a lot of velocity response. When zxcvbnm098 was here, we listened to the exact same program on both versions of SS, then upstairs in my studio on the PA that's up there. The difference was not subtle. For the record, the low frequency response is not an issue. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudyS Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Too bad this isn't cleared out. I maybe want to buy a SS3, but am a bit reserved because of your review about the later series Dave. Quote Rudy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotiDave Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 I would take Aspens review with a grain of salt personally. No offense but ... I'll trust unbiased pro keyboardists first. I didn't like ss3 v1 but that was just me obviously. Quote The baiting I do is purely for entertainment value. Please feel free to ignore it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymb1 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 I've had my SSV3 for over 2 years now and have never regretted buying it. It's the best amp/speaker that I've used in 50 years of playing keyboards. The 3D sound is unlike any other unit unless you're in the narrow sweet spot of a pair good speakers. Everyone hears the 3D sound of the SSV3. Probably thousands of the SSV3s have been sold already with a very small number of players who didn't like it. A very good friend of mine, (a good player), wasn't happy with his SSV3 and returned it. I suspect he didn't want to spend the time to dial it in correctly. Quote Casio PX5s, XWP1 and CPS SSV3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudyS Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 I also trust Dave's review, but I could still be a defective unit or something. That's why I am curious what Aspen has to say about the unit of dB. Quote Rudy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J. Dan Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 I would guess despite the rating, that the digital power supply would be the culprit. There are concerns that have to be addressed with switching power supplies that don't need to be addressed with traditional power supplies. Quote Dan Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 It's an interesting question, if two units can have the exact same amplification, the exact same drivers, the exact same electronics, and just the minor differences in the type of AC->DC power transformer and the density of the cabinetry, yet sound so different... is it possible that the difference has nothing to do with the recent changes, and that it is either some defect OR, with all components still being supplied within spec yet still possibly exhibiting some variance within that range, that maybe ANY two units could sound this different from one another, regardless of which "generation" of the V3 they are from? Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 I would guess despite the rating, that the digital power supply would be the culprit. There are concerns that have to be addressed with switching power supplies that don't need to be addressed with traditional power supplies. Honestly, that'd be my guess as well based on my extremely limited EE knowledge. I know how differently a 500 series audio processor can behave/sound in a +/-16v supply than a dedicated version of it with a much beefier supply....and that can show up in dynamic range. There's no doubt in my mind that dynamic range is the issue I'm hearing (or hearing less of, in this instance) in the latest version of the SS. is it possible that the difference has nothing to do with the recent changes, and that it is either some defect OR, with all components still being supplied within spec yet still possibly exhibiting some variance within that range, that maybe ANY two units could sound this different from one another, regardless of which "generation" of the V3 they are from? I was wondering exactly that as well, tbh...but specifically about the new power supply. Just because a company you buy a part from says every unit that comes off their line behaves within certain tolerence levels doesn't automatically mean they all do. I also want to emphasize that I am an extreme case - I hope folks understand that. I've had three incarnations of the SS, which almost no one else has experienced...and I spend most days listening to high end audio gear, so I'm extra geeky. If I hadn't had the opportunity to bond with the original v3, I'm not sure I'd be so aware of this issue. As previously mentioned - it still sounds like an SS. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zxcvbnm098 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Too bad this isn't cleared out. I maybe want to buy a SS3, but am a bit reserved because of your review about the later series Dave. You should try it before making any judgements. It's still a unique and cool amp for keyboard players, no matter which version you get. I'm the only other person besides Dave who has heard both at the same time, and I wouldn't hesitate to get the newer one if I wanted the spatial effects of the amp. Which I personally do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Too bad this isn't cleared out. I maybe want to buy a SS3, but am a bit reserved because of your review about the later series Dave. You should try it before making any judgements. It's still a unique and cool amp for keyboard players, no matter which version you get. I'm the only other person besides Dave who has heard both at the same time, and I wouldn't hesitate to get the newer one if I wanted the spatial effects of the amp. Which I personally do. I agree. dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
16251 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Too bad this isn't cleared out. I maybe want to buy a SS3, but am a bit reserved because of your review about the later series Dave. I have a 2nd run version and it has been used very little as my gigs have dried up. I'd trade for a lighter one in a second. I'm 60, don't gig that much and would love to trim some weight off of it. Quote AvantGrand N2 | ES520 | Gallien-Krueger MK & MP | https://soundcloud.com/pete36251 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Too bad this isn't cleared out. I maybe want to buy a SS3, but am a bit reserved because of your review about the later series Dave. I have a 2nd run version and it has been used very little as my gigs have dried up. I'd trade for a lighter one in a second. I'm 60, don't gig that much and would love to trim some weight off of it. Really? dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p19978 Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 Some folks seem to have the opinion the v1 is the "best" version: any opinions on this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doerfler Posted April 7, 2017 Share Posted April 7, 2017 well, it's the version I have and it's the only one I have ever heard so IMO it's the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raymb1 Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 well, it's the version I have and it's the only one I have ever heard so IMO it's the best. Do you mean you have the SSV3 from about 2 1/2 years ago or an SSV from further back? Never heard of the SSV1 Quote Casio PX5s, XWP1 and CPS SSV3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S_Gould Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Never heard of the SSV1 Have you heard of a Fender SFX100? I've had one for a decade and a half, and I believe it was the 1st generation of Aspen's technology for M/S reproduction for keyboards. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Guys, I wouldn't fret about this too much. The SSv3 does what it does. Although I own a pair of the initial runs, I wouldn't be fearful of a later run. Regardless if you have an early one or a later one, you'll have to EQ it to sound reasonable with APs. And for $799 MAP, still the best game in town for stereo keys. Quote Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Just got back from a quartet gig. 90% acoustic piano off my CP4. Ran the SS on the bottom, one Yamaha DXR8 on top. Stereo outs of the CP4 into the SS, subwoofer out into the DXR8. Really, the best AP sound in the room I've gotten out the CP4 this way. Very much like. I've mentioned this before, but as I'm just in the door from the gig, worth mentioning again. Quote .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cphollis Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Makes sense to me, as the DXR8 would handle the AP highs much better, and without excessive EQ. The SSv3 is a tool, just have to learn how to use it, especially in smaller, more intimate settings. Quote Want to make your band better? Check out "A Guide To Starting (Or Improving!) Your Own Local Band" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Just got back from a quartet gig. 90% acoustic piano off my CP4. Ran the SS on the bottom, one Yamaha DXR8 on top. Stereo outs of the CP4 into the SS, subwoofer out into the DXR8. Really, the best AP sound in the room I've gotten out the CP4 this way. Very much like. I've mentioned this before, but as I'm just in the door from the gig, worth mentioning again. This is another endorsement of the "SSv3 face down with the high & mid rolled off" trick? Quote ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Bryce Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 I may have to give that a try with my K8. Tim - are you actually putting the SS face down against the floor to make this work? dB Quote ==> David Bryce Music • Funky Young Monks <== Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Quinn Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Right, face down on the floor to silence the SS front speakers. Then put the K8 on the SS on top of the side firing speakers. I find that putting my TT08A in the monitor position (i.e., angled up) works best. Quote https://alquinn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnotherScott Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Right, face down on the floor to silence the SS front speakers. That speaker will still be moving and moving a lot of air, though, with kind of nowhere for that air to go, if you know what I mean. I wonder if that will put stress on the driver, and may lead to premature failure. Maybe it makes sense to prop it up some? Or would "letting that air out" and not so effectively "silencing" that speaker create a sonic spatial mess? I suppose you may not care if that speaker fails if you're not using it, but there may be times you might want to use it the other way for a quick setup, and there's resale value to consider. Maybe another option could be to disconnect the speaker internally, but then there are different precautions needed to make sure you're not damaging the amplifier by driving it into nothing (and you've also eliminated the ability to quickly toss it up and play in its native configuration)... Or is my concern about speaker failure not really an issue? Quote Maybe this is the best place for a shameless plug! Our now not-so-new new video at https://youtu.be/3ZRC3b4p4EI is a 40 minute adaptation of T. S. Eliot's "Prufrock" - check it out! And hopefully I'll have something new here this year. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drawback Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Right, face down on the floor to silence the SS front speakers. Then put the K8 on the SS on top of the side firing speakers. I find that putting my TT08A in the monitor position (i.e., angled up) works best. Ah yes - I thought it was you, Al, who uses this setup. IIRC you'd discussed with Aspen, re: possible problems or issues? Quote ____________________________________ Rod Here for the gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Quinn Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Yes, Aspen and I collaborated on this setup. He approves. At first I contacted Aspen because I wanted to add a jack to the SS that would disable the front speakers when the jack was used. The signal from the jack would then be sent to the TT08A. Aspen said he thought the goal could be accomplished without modifying the SS, which I found appealing. After trying a few things we found that the SS facedown works well. Aspen also suggested setting the MF and HF knobs to their minimum settings. I don't hear much difference when I do this but it's easy so I do it. Quote https://alquinn.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimA Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 Wow....I love this advice!! I haven't experimented with those options yet....sounds intriguing.... Quote KronosX, ssv3, Vpiano, fulcrum fa22ac, Rupert neve line mixer, tons of weird guitars, axe-fx ultra, a couple of nice tube amps (Elmwood and Carr) Eventide Harmonizer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timwat Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 I may have to give that a try with my K8. Tim - are you actually putting the SS face down against the floor to make this work? dB Hey Dave - My config is different / simpler than the one describe above by Al Quinn. I simply set the SS on the floor normally pointing forward. Then I sit the DXR right on top of the SS, trying to get the front baffles lined up. Both pointing forward, wired as described. I don't roll off anything much on the SS, it's set pretty normally. But what happens (I think because the DXR is higher off the floor) is the initial attack, "pointedness" and LF "girth" of the piano note is really predominant from the DXR and the spread, bloom and "size" of the piano is coming from the SS. I haven't tried Al Quinn's config yet, for no other reason but available time to experiment yet. Quote .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudyS Posted April 8, 2017 Share Posted April 8, 2017 You use the full range of the DRX 8? Mainly for the highs? Would the K10 work as well? Has anyone tried this? Quote Rudy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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