Music Player Network Home Guitar Player Magazine Keyboard Magazine Bass Player Magazine EQ Magazine
Topic Options
#2845993 - 03/31/17 08:18 AM Guitar styles...
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9260
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Naw, I ain't talkin' about PLAYING styles, but jiggered by something I posted in another thread( The "Tele" thread I think) I was wondering....

How many guitar "styles" by which I mean "designs" HAVE disappeared over the years as opposed to those that still stick around?

Both the Telecster and Strat haven't changed much, if at all, through the many decades, as well as the LP, and I'm not aware of, since I really don't follow the market obssessively, any NEW designs outside of those odd shaped jobs by JACKSON and B.C. RICH which all seem so similar, and there's another model that looks LYRE inspired that I THOUGHT was made by Jackson, but couldn't find it on their site.

And VOX used to and still does as I understand, put out some odd looking axes, but I don't think you SEE a lotof them being used. I don't know....

So, what's disappeared over the years, and what's still filling the walls at shops lately?
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
GP Island
#2845998 - 03/31/17 08:33 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9582
Loc: Northern California
The Vox Phantom should be a contender for the big loser for just not catching on. The Silverton guitar case/amp combo didn't make it either. Both are still collectable though...and those colored coiling guitar cords have all but disappeared! Music stands are still around. There will always be a ton of Strat, Tele, LP, 335, etc., clones hanging on the racks LOL! cool
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2845999 - 03/31/17 08:54 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: whitefang]
Winston Psmith Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 3051
Loc: Inside the Beltway
It seems like "Everything old is new again" sometimes. IME, it's the failed attempts at high-tech that fall by the wayside: I'm thinking of those Guitars that came with little plug-in effects modules, can't even remember the name of the company now, but that sort of thing. In terms of Guitar design, Supro is back, so are DanElectro Guitars, and Eastwood is making just about anything you and I might remember from the early days of Rock'n'Roll, or Surf Guitar. I've seen new Hagstrom's at GC. You can even still find the Vox Phantom or Teardrop models through a company in the UK, as well. Look up Phantom Guitars . . .

Here's a fun thing to try, next time you see a 'new' Guitar design. Take two index cards, or blank pieces of paper, and cover everything but the center of the Guitar, from the headstock down to the strap peg on the lower bout, and tell me what you see. In most cases, no matter what the body shape or style, you're going to see something that still looks a lot like Les Paul's "Log", or the minimalist Steinberger Guitars. That's the part of the Guitar that we really play; beyond that, the shape doesn't really affect the sound, so much as the playability, which is why there are more Strats and Les Pauls than Flying V's.
_________________________
"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

http://4-4-2music.bandcamp.com/album/regrets-only

Top
#2846052 - 03/31/17 11:17 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: Winston Psmith]
Danzilla Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 5354
Loc: Baltimore, MD
My prediction:

2020 will see the release of the 35th anniversary re-release of the now (then?) super- vintage SynthAxe. Maybe even in an Allan Holdsworth signature model. No, wait - he's still alive. They can make more money if it's a limited edition Gary Moore signature version. With certificate of authenticity for his signature, of course.
_________________________
"Am I enough of a freak to be worth paying to see?"- Separated Out (Marillion)
NEW band Old band

Top
#2846056 - 03/31/17 11:30 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: Danzilla]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5064
Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
Speaking of the Log and Eastwood, they brought back the La Baye 2x4- sort of the predecessor to the Steinberger.

The Reverse V thankfully has not been revived, AFAIK.

Godin tries a "chimera" every once in a while- their SD family fused elements of Strats and LPs into a very nice package, IMHO. Something relatively high on my low dollar G.A.S. list. And their Belmont combined elements of a HSS Strat with SGs to great effect. I have one, I want at least one more,


Edited by Dannyalcatraz (03/31/17 11:31 AM)
_________________________
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap”.

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

http://murphysmusictx.com/

Top
#2846095 - 03/31/17 03:01 PM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: Danzilla]
Winston Psmith Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 3051
Loc: Inside the Beltway
Originally Posted By: Danzilla
My prediction:

2020 will see the release of the 35th anniversary re-release of the now (then?) super- vintage SynthAxe. Maybe even in an Allan Holdsworth signature model. No, wait - he's still alive. They can make more money if it's a limited edition Gary Moore signature version. With certificate of authenticity for his signature, of course.


Adrian Belew made the mistake of buying one, too; there's $28,000 gone to nothing. IIRC, both Holdsworth and Belew used the thing for exactly one album's worth of material, after which it was never seen nor heard from again. Only Futureman (Roy Wooten) hung on to his, and he customized into a hybrid MIDI controller he called the Drumitar. I guess the SynthAxe was the 90's version of the Arp Avatar, expensive, cumbersome to use, and doomed to fail . . .
_________________________
"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

http://4-4-2music.bandcamp.com/album/regrets-only

Top
#2846101 - 03/31/17 03:20 PM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: Winston Psmith]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9260
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
You guys certainly don't disappoint! Especially when I really only was referring to BODY design, and y'all go off on a tangent about the electronics.

But, do you notice that most "new" designs are just slight cosmetic changes in some older design? One example:

I consider the newer Gibson JOHNNY A as just the older BARNEY KESSEL after "liposuction". And it's a sort of testament I guess, that many manufacturers make many models, with their own names for them, that are obvious STRAT inspired designs.
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2846119 - 03/31/17 04:16 PM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: whitefang]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5064
Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
Well..I think that's not quite right. I see a lot of designs based on older shapes that have utterly radical changes in the electronics.

Because of Matt Bellamy and a few others, you're seeing more guitars with KAOSS Pad-style control pads installed. If he company even made a production model recently.

And check out the bewildering array of controls on a Crimson Fripp signature guitar.

Or the wizardry behind things like the Variax or the Moog Paul Vo...
_________________________
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap”.

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

http://murphysmusictx.com/

Top
#2846190 - 04/01/17 05:11 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9260
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
But still, I'm NOT concerned with the electronics. Just with how the guitar LOOKS.

Sure, as time passes, the technology evolves, as I don't know for sure if there's some "movement" in the music world to return to using say, 1960 guitar electronics in a guitar built in 2017 or not. Like that "movement" in classical music about 30 years ago to use "period instruments" when playing Mozart and Haydn and such. THAT idea was kind of ridiculous due to the fact that using a violin, say, BUILT 200 years ago ISN'T gonna SOUND the same as it did WHEN it was built that long ago, as the tone of the instrument changes as it ages. Same with acoustic guitars.

That "pre-war" Martin D-28 isn't going to have the SAME TONE in 2017 as it did when it was built in 1938.

But, it'll probably LOOK pretty much the same. wink
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2846197 - 04/01/17 06:04 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 4857
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: whitefang
But still, I'm NOT concerned with the electronics. Just with how the guitar LOOKS.

Sure, as time passes, the technology evolves, as I don't know for sure if there's some "movement" in the music world to return to using say, 1960 guitar electronics in a guitar built in 2017 or not.


Very much there is. Last year's big thing was retro Charlie Christian pickups. This year it's retro gold foil pickups.

Quote:
Like that "movement" in classical music about 30 years ago to use "period instruments" when playing Mozart and Haydn and such. THAT idea was kind of ridiculous due to the fact that using a violin, say, BUILT 200 years ago ISN'T gonna SOUND the same as it did WHEN it was built that long ago, as the tone of the instrument changes as it ages.


Much of that movement involved new instruments built in the fashion of violins from the period more like 400 years ago & aimed more at Baroque music. And they are not the same as modern violins; 'period' bridges were lower, the neck less angled to the body, the fingerboards were shorter, & the bows were shorter, lighter & more pointed. Plus they were tuned several steps lower than modern instruments. And playing styles were quite different. For example, vibrato was understood to be an ornament, not something you do on every note. It was a very different sound.

Quote:
Same with acoustic guitars.
That "pre-war" Martin D-28 isn't going to have the SAME TONE in 2017 as it did when it was built in 1938.
But, it'll probably LOOK pretty much the same. wink
Whitefang


I'm betting the action was higher & the strings much higher tension in 1938.
_________________________
Scott Fraser

Top
#2846199 - 04/01/17 06:15 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: Scott Fraser]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 4857
Loc: Los Angeles
Actually the Charlie Christian pickup thing was a couple years ago, last year's thing was the gold foil craze. This year it's the Franz pickup, a recreation of a pickup built in the 50's for Guild archtops & allegedly sounding not quite like any other current design.
_________________________
Scott Fraser

Top
#2846222 - 04/01/17 08:03 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: whitefang]
Winston Psmith Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 3051
Loc: Inside the Beltway
Originally Posted By: whitefang
You guys certainly don't disappoint! Especially when I really only was referring to BODY design, and y'all go off on a tangent about the electronics.

But, do you notice that most "new" designs are just slight cosmetic changes in some older design? One example:

I consider the newer Gibson JOHNNY A as just the older BARNEY KESSEL after "liposuction". And it's a sort of testament I guess, that many manufacturers make many models, with their own names for them, that are obvious STRAT inspired designs.
Whitefang


Whitefang, see back to my point about 'new' designs . . . There's only so much you can do with the math & physics of the Guitar. Take away the extraneous design elements, and you still have something much like Les' "Log".
_________________________
"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

http://4-4-2music.bandcamp.com/album/regrets-only

Top
#2846226 - 04/01/17 08:21 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: Winston Psmith]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9582
Loc: Northern California
@ Fang, As far as new body designs being "just slight cosmetic changes", a buddy of mine bought a newer Tele with a contoured body (much like the Strat) and what a nice comfortable guitar to play. The older Tele is flat as a pancake and doesn't fit my belly as nice. +1 Winston, There is a lot more to guitar design than just the body. Again, on my newer Tele they used Strat saddles instead of the barrels, which I really appreciated. Fender also used a cutaway bridge plate instead of the old ash tray, which I really appreciated. I also liked my Memphis Tele with the 3rd Strat style/phase sounding middle pickup. I wish they would put a Strat style tremolo system on one instead of trying to squeeze a big old Bigsby on such a small solid body...just a few design changes on a true American standard that I really liked. I did sell my two Teles though...I like both the Tele and Strat necks and designs. The Tele started borrowing from the Strat design, which was cool! For electronics, you need both in your arsenal to cover a ton of sounds...If you're going to be a Fender man LOL! cool


Edited by Larryz (04/01/17 08:25 AM)
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2846233 - 04/01/17 08:49 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: Larryz]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9582
Loc: Northern California
http://www.gibson.com/News-Lifestyle/Features/en-us/the-history-of-the-pickup-326.aspx <---here's a little guitar pickup history for those that may be interested... cool
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2846325 - 04/01/17 06:18 PM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9260
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Winston, you talk as is you think ELECTRICS are the only guitars that go through design changes. wink Which DOES make all the electronics discussion extraneous.
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2846361 - 04/01/17 10:02 PM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: whitefang]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5064
Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
Well, on the acoustic side, luthiers are bound by the laws of physics governing resonance and projection of acoustic energy, so they have fewer parameters they can manipulate.

That said, when my Powerball numbers hit, I will be getting a Kevin Ryan Nightengale and something by Ervin Somyogyi.



_________________________
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap”.

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

http://murphysmusictx.com/

Top
#2846362 - 04/01/17 10:03 PM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 07/28/04
Posts: 5064
Loc: Dallas/FW Metroplex, Texas
Apologies- no clue as how to resize. frown
_________________________
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap”.

My FLMS- Murphy's Music in Irving, Tx

http://murphysmusictx.com/

Top
#2846379 - 04/02/17 04:27 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9260
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
I LIKE that one! The FLORENTINE cutaway sells it for me. I never took to those acoustic cutaways that look as if they were fashioned after someone took a clay model of a standard acoustic and "bumped" into the side of a kitchen counter.(Think TAKAMINE or Martin DC-16E).

And what about those old WASHBURN-LYON & HEALY bell shaped guitars?
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2846401 - 04/02/17 06:39 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: whitefang]
Winston Psmith Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 3051
Loc: Inside the Beltway
Originally Posted By: whitefang
Winston, you talk as is you think ELECTRICS are the only guitars that go through design changes. wink Which DOES make all the electronics discussion extraneous.
Whitefang


Because the body of an Electric Guitar isn't being used to project sound, the way a true Acoustic Guitar must, you can do pretty much anything you like to the shape of the body. Hell, you can mount Guitar electronics onto old Bicycle parts, or gardening tools, it really doesn't matter, since most of the sound is coming through the pickups.

Once again, if you look at the basic shape of most Acoustic Guitars, you might see some variations like Ovation's off-set sound holes, or those bell-shaped Guitars, but you need a body shape that sound can bounce out of. Take a modern Breedlove Acoustic back to the 19th Century, and any Guitarist of that time will easily recognize the instrument, same with those highly decorated Guitars Dannyalcatraz posted. Go back with a Gittler, a Reverse Flying V, or even a Stratocaster, and see if anyone even believes that it's a Guitar.
_________________________
"Monsters are real, and Ghosts are real too. They live inside us, and sometimes, they win." Stephen King

http://4-4-2music.bandcamp.com/album/regrets-only

Top
#2846426 - 04/02/17 08:35 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: Winston Psmith]
DocPate Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/11/16
Posts: 599
Loc: Virginia
Yep. Acoustic guitars are pretty much the same..
Except for onboard electronics. And the ban on some woods. But the Martin D series, Gibson J Series, even the Gibson ES125 etc are still the same shape, size, bracing.

Top
#2846449 - 04/02/17 10:59 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: DocPate]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9260
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
But I've seen( and many years ago) some "thinline" acoustics, no thicker than a 335, and flat topped and didn't SOUND for shit, but there they were! (and NO "onboard" electronics). I can't remember WHO made them.
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2847466 - 04/06/17 03:26 PM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: whitefang]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9260
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Nobody got anything, eh?

So, how about those YAMAHA "Silent Series" guitars like the SLG100S ?

You know these....no back or top. All side and neck. Acoustic/electric with (it looks like) all the electronics at the end of the neck. I first saw one at the turn of the millenium in the Windsor Raceway casino. The trio that provided the live "entertainment" was using one, but we got here after they ended their set and were packing to leave, so I never got to hear how it sounded. The guitarist of the trio said HE was happy with it, so I have to take his word for it.

Any of YOU guys have any experience with them?
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2847501 - 04/06/17 08:27 PM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 4857
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: whitefang
So, how about those YAMAHA "Silent Series" guitars like the SLG100S ?
Any of YOU guys have any experience with them?
Whitefang


No, but it's a piezo pickup in the bridge, which always sound awful to me. Not acoustic, not electric.
_________________________
Scott Fraser

Top
#2847534 - 04/07/17 03:40 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: Scott Fraser]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9260
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Well then, what about THESE odd ones?

http://www.travelerguitar.com/

Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2847610 - 04/07/17 09:25 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 4857
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: whitefang
Well then, what about THESE odd ones?
http://www.travelerguitar.com/
Whitefang


I have one of those, in fact I have the very first one off their production line from many years ago. The ones they're making now in China are actually better built than those that were built in California back then. But it's a great idea, absolutely the smallest, most compact travel guitar around. Mine has been all over the world with me, but it won't stay in tune to save it's life. I think the current Chinese models are a lot better in that regard.
_________________________
Scott Fraser

Top
#2847637 - 04/07/17 10:54 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: Scott Fraser]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9260
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
So, which model do you have?
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2847812 - 04/07/17 10:55 PM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 4857
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: whitefang
So, which model do you have?
Whitefang


Pro-Series, their original model. I saw them at a NAMM convention, said I wanted one & went to their factory. I picked out the parts & they put it together right there. First one off the line.
_________________________
Scott Fraser

Top
#2847833 - 04/08/17 05:01 AM Re: Guitar styles... [Re: Scott Fraser]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9260
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Cool. Never saw one "close and personal", but they DO look like a bit of fun to "noodle" around with. wink
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top


Moderator:  A String, Bluesape, myles_rose