Music Player Network Home Guitar Player Magazine Keyboard Magazine Bass Player Magazine EQ Magazine
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >
Topic Options
#2844463 - 03/25/17 10:01 AM lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 5689
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Recent side comments in another thread abt "authentic" jazz gtrs leads me to point out these players...

Let's start here with TWO unauthenttic jazz gtrs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuGvIVnWnTM

Then there was Ted Greene
here working magic under the clatter of cutlery at a wedding


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ZENkj7C7Bw

Ted "teles" some of his set up



Mike Stern, changing yer, uh, Chromozones, if not DNA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KG7fIFuQTMw

Long-time studio maven Ed Bickert, demonstrating why & how


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuLPZ6HoP2s

So, that's the name o' that !


Edited by d (03/25/17 10:56 AM)
Edit Reason: for those having viewing probs
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
GP Island
#2844468 - 03/25/17 10:33 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9253
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
I've mentioned Bickert a lot here, and fan-TAS-tic clip!

Ed on guitar?---Dang!

And Don Thompson on bass?---DAMN!

Thanks for that. smile

ALL them clips were gr-r-r-r-r-EAT!
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2844494 - 03/25/17 12:00 PM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9572
Loc: Northern California
Good stuff! like
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2844635 - 03/26/17 06:30 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: d]
Fred_C Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/10
Posts: 2003
Loc: PA
1. If I recall correctly, I had commented on "appropriateness of Tone", not "authentic Jazz guitars".

2. That being said, you may really enjoy this thread from the Jazz Guitar Forum. It is entitled "Telecaster love thread - no archtops allowed". That should really get your juices flowing.

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guitar-am...ps-allowed.html

Nevertheless, the vast majority of players on the forum (which is international) play hollow body or semi-hollow body instruments. This fact can easily be proven by just visiting the forum (www.jazzuitar.be) and perusing the threads in the sub-forum Guitars, Amps and Gizmos

And with that, I'll leave the balance of this thread to the Jazz guitar experts like d and Whitefang.
_________________________
If you play cool, you are cool.

Top
#2844671 - 03/26/17 10:17 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: Fred_C]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9572
Loc: Northern California
+1 Brother Fred, well said, well written! thu
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2844825 - 03/27/17 05:04 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: Larryz]
Eric Iverson Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 5191
Loc: Jackson Heights, NY
As we all know, it's not just the guitar.... it's also how you set the tone controls and the amp and how you set ITS tone controls... and of course, how you strike the strings has a lot to do with it.
Still, I probably wouldn't choose a fat body Gibson for a hard rock gig, LOL. Though Ted Nugent might disagree with that.....

Top
#2844828 - 03/27/17 05:21 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9253
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Y'know, I really don't WANT to deadhorse , but I NEVER claimed anybody SHOULDN'T use those styles of guitars for jazz, only that it COULD be done WITHOUT them, and that I AM well aware the majority of jazz players PREFER them. And again.....

MY beef was guitar manufacturers forwarding the NOTION that one should ONLY use those models of guitars for jazz, and NOTHING ELSE. Now they never came straight out and SAID so, but in promoting models of fat, hollow bodied guitars as "jazz" guitars, some MIGHT get that impression. Like how some might get the idea because many COUNTRY pickers use TELECASTERS or play those free TAKAMINE acoustics, that you HAVE to in order to be considered a COUNTRY player.

And despite the childish condescension, I NEVER claimed to be an "expert" at ANYTHING. Just expressing an opinion, which I DO have a RIGHT to.

And BTW Fred: I mentioned that "Folklore" radio show to that guy from Philly on that other forum. HE claimed he knew about it but never listened to it because(in HIS words) "That was just for all them CANDY ASS "folkies". Well, myself being an old "candy ass" folkie, I took umbrage and told him to take a lick! wink
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2844883 - 03/27/17 08:31 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9572
Loc: Northern California
I know a ton of country pickers love the Tele Twang. It's kind of like the acoustic pickers (like Garth), they want to prove their guitar talent without all the whistle and bells like pedals, whammy bars, etc. Jazz guys are the same playing big box guitars loaded with flatwounds and going into the mellow zone. Guys like Pass and Benson that get their signatures. Then there are all those Strat and Tele players like Bonnie, Stevie, Eric, Dale, Holly, Burton, etc., many of which get those signatures guitars from Fender. Les Paul needs no signature model as Gibson got a cool name from him LOL! Then there's Gretsch sigs for Chet and Brian...there seems to be a pattern here when it comes to guitar manufactures sending out those subliminal messages LOL! You can play anything on just about any guitar and make it sound great if you have great talent IMHO. The fact is that many pros/icons in a genre seem to prefer certain guitars for some very good reason.

There are always going to be the exceptional players we all wish we could be and wish to capture some of their sound...I owned one Clapton Custom Shop sig model and sold it to my brother. He probably does it more justice than I could do with it LOL! I like Teles and Strats and Taylors but I find myself on my acoustic Takamine more than all my other guitars! and it has nothing to do with wanting to sound like Garth! cool


Edited by Larryz (03/27/17 08:35 AM)
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2844913 - 03/27/17 09:37 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: Fred_C]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 5689
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: Fred_C
1. If I recall correctly, I had commented on "appropriateness of Tone", not "authentic Jazz guitars".

FC, don't mistake this thread as a diatribe against yer comments, which I generally find well based.

That said, there is a fair question abt "appropriateness of tone" as much as "authenticity" of any instrument.
We may recall a thread from a few months back that, far from being a celebration of advancing instrument technology & player skills as it was intended, wound up being a platform for "what people expected to hear" from particular instruments & why that made some uses, etc, just "wrong" in their minds.

I simply find that a misguided notion that goes against the empirical facts.

Originally Posted By: Fred_C

2. That being said, you may really enjoy this thread from the Jazz Guitar Forum. It is entitled "Telecaster love thread - no archtops allowed". That should really get your juices flowing.

http://www.jazzguitar.be/forum/guitar-am...ps-allowed.html

Nevertheless, the vast majority of players on the forum (which is international) play hollow body or semi-hollow body instruments. This fact can easily be proven by just visiting the forum (www.jazzuitar.be) and perusing the threads in the sub-forum Guitars, Amps and Gizmos


Again, that's a matter of tradition more than any limitation of tone to certain instruments...or, indeed, what might constitute a "jazz" tone...isn't it ?

Originally Posted By: Fred_C

And with that, I'll leave the balance of this thread to the Jazz guitar experts like d and Whitefang.


No need to slur me with that association, is there ?
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2844917 - 03/27/17 09:51 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: d]
JuJu Kwan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/08/16
Posts: 156
Loc: Wuhan, China
The problem with the signature guitars and the Les Paul's is that most people of my generation, excluding me and a few others, don't know or care about these players. Guitar company's need to get out of the past and start looking at the future. GP magazine had a good article about this a couple months ago.


Edited by JuJu Kwan (03/27/17 09:53 AM)
_________________________






Top
#2844918 - 03/27/17 09:52 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: d]
Fred_C Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/10
Posts: 2003
Loc: PA
@d,

Your points are all well taken and valid opinions.

Peace out.
_________________________
If you play cool, you are cool.

Top
#2844935 - 03/27/17 11:18 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: JuJu Kwan]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9253
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
The problem with the signature guitars and the Les Paul's is that most people of my generation, excluding me and a few others, don't know or care about these players. Guitar company's need to get out of the past and start looking at the future. GP magazine had a good article about this a couple months ago.


I can agree with that to a point, the only correction I'd suggest would be to NOT look at the future, as no one ever realy knows what it will bring. And a business can't possibly plan for a future that may or may not come. But what point is taken is....

They need to get more into the PRESENT. I mean, we "geezers" have long held OUR "heroes" close to our hearts for many years and will probably never let them go. But younger generations SHOULDN'T( notice the word!) feel any obligation to them except by choice. So I can undertand some 16 year old kid struggling to learn his way around a fretboard NOT being all obssessed in obtaining an ERIC CLAPTON signature Strat. Unless of course, some "hero" of HIS plays one and heaps praise on it AND Eric.
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2844963 - 03/27/17 12:52 PM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9572
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: JuJu Kwan
The problem with the signature guitars and the Les Paul's is that most people of my generation, excluding me and a few others, don't know or care about these players. Guitar company's need to get out of the past and start looking at the future. GP magazine had a good article about this a couple months ago.


I'm glad you still care JuJu! like

Each generation seems to find their heros. Mine dates back to 1954 with Scotty Moore when I just 5 or 6 years old in those days. It took a decade before I figured out who he was and how he influences my playing even in this day and age. Then I do a little research and go back to the 30's with Django...I hope the young and upcoming players will also do a little research while they are learning guitar. Scotty has a signature Gibson hollow body with P90's that I would love to have but $4,000 was a little out of my budget LOL! cool
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2844985 - 03/27/17 02:30 PM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: Larryz]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 5689
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
As far as that goes, the "problem" is less with heroes, classic industry standard models or anything else than it might be with those who get hide-bound abt what's supposed to be.

I reiterate my ref to a not-so-old thread wherein some decried musicians & instrument uses that stood outside their perceptions of what they expected to hear from an instrument or genre.

However, lemme try to steer thing's back to the point by this tactic: If we're gonna discuss Eric Clapton here (however briefly I hope that may be) let me point out that one of my big long-term disappointments with him is that, once he got past the gtr hero trap of Cream & even came to embrace the sometimes maudlin pop at which he shot arrows toward the "For Yer Love" Yardbirds, he kinda stopped doing much to challenge his own history, unlike , say Jeff Beck.

Here's the most interesting thing I've heard EC play since abt 1975. Note that he does have playing skills that go beyond the often clichéd licks he employs.
His solo embellishment to the melody here are quite fluid & subtle ---even jazzlike--- in their way.



But let's not get too tied down abt that, OK ?

How about this...
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2844999 - 03/27/17 03:22 PM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: d]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9572
Loc: Northern California
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sJK78Y3zoQk <---here's a couple of my heroes on their signature guitars that's a little more my style...I've always loved Clapton through all of his various stages especially in his Cream days, his unplugged acoustic album, My Crossroads DVD with him having fun with all the greats...This Riding with the King album is one I really like.

I didn't care much for the Clapton video as the music is not a genre that interests me. But, +1 he was challenging himself...the video on the Jazz settings by Tim Lerch on the Tele, with his strings, neck, volume and tone adjustments on guitar and amp, demo, etc., was real interesting. thu
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2845137 - 03/28/17 06:07 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9253
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
I actually LIKED the Clapton clip. A LOT.

It's reminiscent of the Eastern influenced stuff JOHN McLAUGHLIN did on the "B" side of his LP "MY GOALS BEYOND".

And kind of fits in a bit(and since the clip seems to be shot at some tribute to George Harrison) with what me and SCOTT were discussing about Harrison in the "Record labels-subsidiaries" thread. smile

Great clip, d smile
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2845164 - 03/28/17 07:53 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: whitefang]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9572
Loc: Northern California
Any tribute to George is OK by me. George did a great job in bringing the Sitar into the Beatles arsenal (along with the electric 12 string)... cool
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2845199 - 03/28/17 09:07 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: whitefang]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 4853
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: whitefang
I actually LIKED the Clapton clip. A LOT.
It's reminiscent of the Eastern influenced stuff JOHN McLAUGHLIN did on the "B" side of his LP "MY GOALS BEYOND".
And kind of fits in a bit(and since the clip seems to be shot at some tribute to George Harrison) with what me and SCOTT were discussing about Harrison in the "Record labels-subsidiaries" thread. smile
Great clip, d smile
Whitefang


It's from the Concert For George tribute concert at the Royal Albert Hall. Clapton organized it after George's passing, with all of George's musical cohorts over the years. It's a great & moving DVD.
Clapton's playing is very appropriate to the East-West nature of the piece & it feels to me like he's really into it, the opposite of phoning it in, even though it's not really his genre. I just wish they'd miked him up instead of relying on the piezo pickup, which turns a lovely performance into a bit of an ear-wrenching torment.
Anybody who has played in an orchestra will notice that Anoushka Shankar is conducting 1-4-2-3 to the band. It's supposed to be down-left-right-up. Presumably those players don't really need a conductor anyway.
_________________________
Scott Fraser

Top
#2845345 - 03/28/17 07:33 PM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: JuJu Kwan]
Bartholomew Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/29/04
Posts: 494
Loc: Montreal
#1 On-Call LA session-man...Wrecking Crew, the Fifth Monkee. I've been listening to this guy since age 16 before he did all those hit records with a whole bunch of known artists:

_________________________
Been round the block but am not over the hill...

http://www.bandmix.ca/jamrocker/

Top
#2845363 - 03/28/17 09:11 PM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: Bartholomew]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9572
Loc: Northern California
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isOHCgZXxCM Very nice
Bartman and way to bring it back to some real jazz guitar along with some great drums, bass and piano! like


Edited by Larryz (03/28/17 09:19 PM)
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2845396 - 03/29/17 04:25 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: Larryz]
Eric Iverson Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 5191
Loc: Jackson Heights, NY
Clapton did a great job with a sort of "raga-rock" style on Cream's "Dance The Night Away", probably inspired by "Eight Miles High", and Clapton is a fan of Indian sitarist Vilayat Khan, a contemporary of Ravi Shankar. Surely he was aware of Coltrane at the time.
Musicians like to explore..... the creative ones, anyway. But most of us have "tried and true" stuff we fall back on, too.

Top
#2845402 - 03/29/17 05:20 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: Eric Iverson]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9253
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
thu
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2845417 - 03/29/17 06:14 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: Eric Iverson]
Fred_C Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/12/10
Posts: 2003
Loc: PA
Originally Posted By: Eric Iverson
But most of us have "tried and true" stuff we fall back on, too.



When I took my last lesson from my teacher, Jerry Ricks, I asked him what I should play. He replied, "Play what makes you smile". I play the Jazz Standards of the '20's thru '50's. The newest thing I play is early '60's Bossa Nova (love that "Brazilian Sound"). The music makes me smile.
_________________________
If you play cool, you are cool.

Top
#2845435 - 03/29/17 07:15 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: Fred_C]
Eric Iverson Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/03/05
Posts: 5191
Loc: Jackson Heights, NY
Reminding me that I have a book of standards from the '20s for mandolin and guitar, which I should dig out - partially because they were cool tunes, and because there are lots of mandolin chords I don't know, which is a hindrance when playing jazz!

Top
#2845450 - 03/29/17 07:56 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: Eric Iverson]
Larryz Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 9572
Loc: Northern California
+1 on playing what makes you smile Brother Fred...Eric too, as far as looking back goes. My oldest tunes in my set lists go back to 1932 and I truly enjoy playing and singing them. I also like R&B tunes from the 40's. 50's and 60's rock and roll, old Hank Williams country too (jazzed up a little)...My newest tune is around 1995 LOL! I'll be playing it for others tonight! cool
_________________________
Take care, Larryz

Top
#2845472 - 03/29/17 08:48 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: Larryz]
Scott Fraser Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/05
Posts: 4853
Loc: Los Angeles
I'm guessing Tim Lerch could make a Teisco sound like a million bucks. That great tone is in his hands. I've never owned a Tele but now I really want one. He gets incredible warmth out of the bridge pickup & incredible, just-bright-enough, clarity out of the neck pickup. If Fender ever needs an advertisement for having the most versatile tone around, this guy is it.
_________________________
Scott Fraser

Top
#2845609 - 03/29/17 07:19 PM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: Scott Fraser]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9253
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Ya gotta give the Tele credit. Some would have thought that the model, with it's anachronistic looking design, would have been dropped due to disinterest long ago. But it's quality was such that NO interest was EVER lost in it. While there's been some models by others that have come and gone, the TELECASTER had stuck around a VERY long time, and if Fender doesn't fudge it up and change it or cut corners on it's "innards" components, your grandchildren and even your GREAT grandchildren will be able to buy NEW ones in years to come! smile
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2847612 - 04/07/17 09:43 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 5689
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Actually the point here's not the Tlecaster but a reminder that too mnay get hung up on what they think is the way things should be/sound like/etc.
I guess I should accept that, as Professor Fred McDowell said back in his 1959 dissertation I Do Not Play No Rock & Roll, chapter 12 ("who's never get it"), you can't unfool alla the ppl ala the time.

Anywhat, this ain't abt the 'Caster or any particular instrument or player but is abt the fact that we should remember that creative musicians use their tools in all kinda ways & gettin' stuck in clichéd thinkin' is the opposite of what art is.
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
#2847633 - 04/07/17 10:47 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: d]
whitefang Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 9253
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Sure. Chopin's Polonaise in Ab Major played on an old beat up whorehouse upright with a toilet chain hung on the harp is STILL the polonaise on that or the finest Steinway.

Jackson Pollack STILL created art.

So did Ken Kesey in literary art.

But there were many at the time of their creations who argued that none of it was. And time proved them wrong.

To further illustrate d's poignant assertion---

If that "cliched thinking" won out, we wouldn't be HAVING any discussion about jazz guitar because there probably wouldn't have BEEN any jazz to PLAY on a guitar. OR rock'n'roll or Hip-hop or whatnot.

In art class in school, our teacher stated that, "art is a form of 'self expression' ". And went on to say it's true of ALL art forms. And one CAN'T "self express" under any set of unmovable arbitrary "rules".
Whitefang


Edited by whitefang (04/07/17 10:48 AM)
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

Top
#2847641 - 04/07/17 11:09 AM Re: lemme "Tele" ya abt jazz gtr [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 5689
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
....
as Professor Fred McDowell said back in his 1959 dissertation I Do Not Play No Rock & Roll, chapter 12 ("who's never get it"), you can't unfool alla the ppl ala the time.

Making noise isn't the same as creating anything or having something to say.
_________________________
d=halfnote

Top
Page 1 of 2 1 2 >


Moderator:  A String, Bluesape, myles_rose