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#2843722 - 03/22/17 03:12 PM Your Leslie simulator history
Moonglow Offline
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Registered: 03/15/03
Posts: 4453
Loc: Northwest Indiana
I thought this might be an amusing topic, especially considering what some of us may have used before there were bona fide Leslie simulators (i.e., loosely defined a something with two distinct "rotors"). Here's my Hx:

Around 1980, I had a Farfisa V.I.P. 345 which I used with a Ross flanger! It produced this thick, moving sound in a seasick-on-the-ocean type of way. I think I then "upgraded" to a Boss Chorus Ensemble. I used this until I obtained an (analog) Korg CX-3 which of course had a built-in Leslie sim. After a couple of years I then paired the CX-3 with a Dynacord CLS-222 which was really the shiz for a while. From there it was a Voce Spin II which I thought sounded pretty good with my V5, and then a Ventilator for the past several years, first with a Nord Stage (classic) and now my Kronos/CX-3.

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#2843736 - 03/22/17 03:30 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: Moonglow]
bennyray Offline
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Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 739
Loc: USA
I had a Multivox Full Rotor about 1979-1981 or so. It was ok but that was when alot of road bands were going to the CX-3 and alot of players were selling their Hammonds and Leslies.


Edited by bennyray (03/23/17 07:03 AM)
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#2843740 - 03/22/17 03:34 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: bennyray]
Wastrel Offline
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Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 2434
Loc: Los Angeles
The only one I ever had besides the real thing was an Oberheim OB3 and it sounded BAD... real BAD. frown
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#2843750 - 03/22/17 04:09 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: Wastrel]
BbAltered Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 03/18/12
Posts: 473
Around 1989-90, I bought a Boss SE-50 multi-fx unit in part because it included a fully realized Leslie simulation. It had lots of editable parameters: hi and low rotor rise and fall times, stereo mic distance, drive, etc. I spent a lot of time fiddling with those different parameters, and though it made my Hammond-Suzuki XB-2 sound good. In 1996, I bought a Kork ToneWorks G4 Leslie Speaker Simulator. It sounded really good, and paired with my HS XB-2, I was pretty much in tonewheel heaven. (Let's put it this way: it way my technique and not my gear that messing up my sound.)

In the mid 'aughties, I bought a Hammond XK3 pro system and a MotionSound Pro 145. It stays in my studio and I enjoy the sound. Interestingly, to my ear, the Pro 145 sounds subtle compared to the simulators I have heard. The actual moving air has a special something to it, but the simulators always sound much more idk, more. I'm thinking of hotrodding the Pro 145 to put better mics in it: the mics in the Pro 145 sound bad (to my ears) and are too omni, and so pick up everything in the room.

I am now considering getting an XK5, but will continue to use the Pro 145 until it stops working.
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#2843787 - 03/22/17 06:16 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: BbAltered]
eric Offline
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Registered: 01/25/02
Posts: 6186
Loc: Virginia
- Brianizer
- Dynacord CLS-222 x 2
- Several Motion Sounds
- Ventilator, Vent II, Mini Vent

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#2843789 - 03/22/17 06:38 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: eric]
Doc Tonewheel Offline
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Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 582
Loc: Downingtown, PA
Used a MTI Rotophaser, and then a Multivox Little David (very cool, looked like a mini-Leslie) on my Crumar T2
Then I went to the real thing.....
Then I went to using the on-board sim on my 1st generation BX-3
Stuck with that then moved to the Leslie sim in my Voce V3
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#2843804 - 03/22/17 07:47 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: Doc Tonewheel]
t9cstudio Offline
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Registered: 12/17/07
Posts: 242
Loc: TX
A guitar slinging friend of mine had a Little David. I thought it was the beez-kneez. We wanted to clone it, so we opended it up and then had a big laugh! It was the very first Leslie sim I can remember.
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#2843809 - 03/22/17 08:03 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: Doc Tonewheel]
dbran Offline
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Registered: 02/27/17
Posts: 34
Loc: CT
The Hammond XK-2 onboard simulator was my first. Not very good, but it's tolerable if you stick to the lower 4 drawbars (!)

Then got a Motion-Sound Pro-3T, the one with the tube in it but no internal mics. To get loud enough at gigs, I would mic it up in stereo and feed that (along with the low rotor-simulation) to a mini-P.A. Sounded great, but it was a lot of work and trouble to get it all balanced properly.

Moved on to a Motion-Sound KBR-3D, which I used for about eight years and may continue to use going forward.

But meanwhile, still curious about easier ways to record and lighter ways to travel, I investigated a few pedals. The Line6 RotoMachine is very flexible and tries to emulate several different kinds of rotary speakers. I found a decent "145" setting and used it for a while. But the dealbreaker there is that the fast/slow stomp switch is ALSO the "bypass" switch! The function is determined by how hard you tap the pedal, and I was constantly bypassing the darn thing when I just wanted to change the speed. No good.

Played around with an EHX Lester K. It's pretty good on organ, though it's not quite in Ventilator territory. However, it's really AMAZING on electric piano! Rhodes and wurlys really come alive through that thing! I sold it but still wonder if maybe I should have kept it just for that.

Recently got a Ventilator II and am playing it through a CPS Spacestation. Jury is still out on whether this is actually a better live setup than the trusty KBR-3D. But nothing beats the Vent if I just want the sound in my headphones, or for recording.

The sad thing about this story is that I could have saved a lot of money and trouble by just springing for the Ventilator II instead of "working my way up to it!" I guess I had to be sure, before spending that kind of money on one pedal, that there really isn't a cheaper option. It seem like there isn't. Although, I'm curious about the GSI Burn. Hmmmm..... smile
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#2843814 - 03/22/17 08:21 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: dbran]
cphollis Offline
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Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2082
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
@dbran -- great that you like the KBR-3D. I played through one for a while, and never grew attached to it. It sits in the garage somewhere, unused and unloved. But, yeah, the rotor sound is pretty good.
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Stuff: Stay stands, Key Largo, Vent II, X-Air 16

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#2843815 - 03/22/17 08:30 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: cphollis]
lightbg Offline
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Registered: 02/02/01
Posts: 573
Loc: Rockaway,NJ,UNITED STATES
I also had a MTI Rotophaser with a Kustom 250 bass amp for the bottom with my Univox Organizer. Now I use either the onboard sim with my NE 4D or my Leslie 2101 with my C1.
The reface YC gets the EHX Lester K.
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#2843825 - 03/22/17 09:02 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: Moonglow]
Al Coda Offline
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Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 3979
Loc: out in the sticks
Originally Posted By: Moonglow


Around 1980, I had a Farfisa V.I.P. 345 which I used with a Ross flanger! It produced this thick, moving sound in a seasick-on-the-ocean type of way. I think I then "upgraded" to a Boss Chorus Ensemble.


Well, the very 1st phasing device I used was a Schulte Compact Phasing A.

Originally Posted By: Moonglow

I then paired the CX-3 with a Dynacord CLS-222 which was really the shiz for a while.


Similar here.
I also owned the early KORG CX3.
1st I bought the black faced CLS-22, then the white CLS222 and later the DLS-223 hardware upgraded to DLS-300 specs/features.
For all I used a Chandler Tubedriver rackmount as frontend as well as a Rocktron 300A compressor/HushII.

That was it and today I don´t use any external leslie sim at all.

A.C.

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#2843829 - 03/22/17 09:06 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: Al Coda]
Jazz+ Offline
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Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5524
Mojo 61
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#2843830 - 03/22/17 09:11 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: cphollis]
dbran Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/27/17
Posts: 34
Loc: CT
Originally Posted By: cphollis
@dbran -- great that you like the KBR-3D. I played through one for a while, and never grew attached to it. It sits in the garage somewhere, unused and unloved. But, yeah, the rotor sound is pretty good.


Yup, I really do like the KBR-3D! And I don't think I'd ever be looking for anything else, if it weren't so darn heavy and bulky. I guess it's fairly compact for what it does (a miniature stereo PA with real rotary horn? Yes please!), and anyone who has hauled a real B3/Leslie around would just laugh at my "problem." But still, at 65 lbs, it's getting hard for me to manage.

I remember reading that you didn't ever bond with your KBR-3D over on the spacestation thread. I wonder if it's because the Nord has, to my ears, a more "muted" piano tone than the QS8 that I play. Something about the KBR-3D really complements the brightness of the QS8 pianos and synths really well -- but maybe it just doesn't do any favors for the Nord? Just a guess. I know you put a lot of effort into your sounds, so you must have tried various things to get the KBR-3D to work.

The thought of yours sitting in the garage makes me sad! Mine is currently sitting in the repair shop, as one of the internal rotor mics (for feeding signal to the FOH) has failed. This, and curiosity about cutting the size/weight in half, is why I'm currently using a Vent/Spacestation combination.

Thanks for replying, cphollis, and also thanks for the wealth of information over on the spacestation thread. Very, very helpful!
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#2843850 - 03/22/17 10:16 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: dbran]
cphollis Offline
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Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2082
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Well, my deal is that I'm 70% APs and DPs, and maybe 30% organ. I care about all my sounds, but if the APs/DPs aren't rocking it, well ..

I never could get my AP/DP sounds to rock through the KBR-3D. Ain't giving up on my Nord sounds, they really work for me. Especially with decent amplification. It's my thing smile

That, and the top-heavy design made lugging a PAIN. But I did love that rotary speaker. Just wasn't the all-in-one solution that I craved.

Hey, if you'd like a backup unit, PM me. I'm sure we could work something out, as I'm basically not using it.
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Keys: Nord Piano 2, Stage 3 Compact, other stuff
Amps: FA 12acs, RCF TT08as, QSC Ks, SSv3
Stuff: Stay stands, Key Largo, Vent II, X-Air 16

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#2843851 - 03/22/17 10:17 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: dbran]
HammondDave Offline
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Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 6886
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
My first....

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#2843859 - 03/22/17 10:46 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: HammondDave]
Tom Williams Offline
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Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 647
Loc: West Virginia
My first leslie simulator was gradually bringing in the vibrato on a Farfisa Combo Compact: I'd start with no vibrato, then light-slow vibrato, then heavy-slow, then heavy fast. Yes, really.

With a country band (which supplied the instrument) I had a Wurlitzer electric piano played through an original oilcan Morley pedal. Our guitarist had a Guitorgan through a Little David, I think.

I graduated to a VIP345 and Leslie 860, both of which I regret throwing away.

Next: the internal leslie sim (not bad sounding) on my Alesis Fusion (terrible organ though).

Then a couple of Kurzweil 2xxx's into a Boss/Roland RT-20, which I still have and like. Probably because I have never played through a Vent. :-)

Finally, the internal Leslie effect on my PC3(61). I prefer the BWB30829 single Leslie algorithm to the Kurzweil Double Leslie -- it sounds good to my (and my listeners') ears, and leaves enough effects processing power to run a guitar patch through an amp model -> chorus -> delay if I want to.
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#2843863 - 03/22/17 11:30 PM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: Tom Williams]
UnderGroundH Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/19/06
Posts: 188
Loc: Keratsini, Hellas
Kurzweil K2661 internal Leslie effect.
Strymon Lex first version(mono input) sold
Strymon Lex second version(stereo input)
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#2843890 - 03/23/17 04:51 AM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: UnderGroundH]
DanL Offline
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Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 4001
Loc: DE
Moonglow I had those same 2 pedals.

I had a Hammond L100, and I bought a Ross flanger to run it thru. Later on I migrated to a Boss Chorus.

After the Hammond, I had an early Casio "1000P". It had a delayed vibrato sound so I did what Tom did, and hit the delayed vibrato on, then the full vibrato.

After that I was playing in a band that had a B3/122 combo.

After the B3 band, I got the SE50 which BbAltered mentioned. (I still have this but it's not used live). I (think) it was used on a Juno 106 organ patch. I had a JX10 as well and would midi them together to have a percussion sound from the JX and the organ tone from the 106.

For a while I used an SY77 which had a decent for it's time Leslie sim.

Then I got a Rhodes VK1000 and used it's internal sim, then got a Motion Sound 3T (whatever the tube model was). That was my organ rig for a good while.

I got a Roland VK7 and used it's internal sim as it's output wasn't hot enough to drive the MS without cranking up the MS pre, which gave a heavy dirt sound to everything. I might have gone thru a couple real Leslies during this time. I remember having a single driver 125 and think I had a 145 with a Trek preamp as well.

I replaced the VK7 with the original Electro and used it's internal sim.

Next I used a Speakeasy preamp and Leslie 145, with the Electro.

Bought an original Vent for the Electro, which breathed a little life into it. I used the Vent on my Stage Classic and SK1 as well. I still have the Vent but it's not in my rig at this moment.

Bought a Lester K as an option to have another option for the SK1 since my Vent was rack mounted. I used the K on 1 gig and decided it didn't give me much that my tweaked SK1 sim didn't already have and opted for the quicker setup time.

Currently have an Electro 5d and use it's internal sim.
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#2843895 - 03/23/17 04:55 AM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: DanL]
Outkaster Offline
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Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5811
Loc: Rochester, NY
I never used Leslie's live but have had a ton of them. Here is my list

Micro B
Leslie G4
Korg CX-3 Versions 1 and II
Hammond XK3
Hammond XK3-C
Hammond XK-1C
Mojo 61
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#2843910 - 03/23/17 05:42 AM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: Outkaster]
tucktronix Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 1089
Loc: Rochester, NY
In chronological order..

1993: Korg DW8000 - ART Multiverb
1994: Korg Wavestation EX - internal sim
1998: Hammond XB2 - Leslie 25
2008: Korg CX3 - Leslie 25
2010 - Korg CX3 - Ventilator
2016 - Korg CX3 - Lester K
Later in 2016 to present: Nord Electro 5D - Lester K
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#2843922 - 03/23/17 06:26 AM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: HammondDave]
bennyray Offline
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Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 739
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: HammondDave
My first....



Dang forgot I had one of those I used it for my Hohner Pianet and later a Fender Rhodes Mark 1.
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#2843923 - 03/23/17 06:28 AM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: tucktronix]
stillearning Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 06/27/13
Posts: 315
Back in the 70's, a had a Leslie 145 with pre-amp pedal, which I used with a Yamaha YC-30 combo organ. Sounded pretty good actually.

Then I went with cheesy sims...

Mu Tron bi-phase
Little David
VK8m
Now, Nord Stage 88
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#2843938 - 03/23/17 07:16 AM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: stillearning]
Al Quinn Offline
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Registered: 08/13/14
Posts: 931
Loc: Center Moriches, NY
This was my first. I think I bought it around 1979.

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Yamaha C3, '62 A100, Leslie 145, CP4, Mojo, HX3 Module, Vent 2, Tall & Fat, Electro 4D, SSv3, Markbass CMD 121P, Chopped Leslie 145, RCF TT08As

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#2843943 - 03/23/17 07:19 AM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: stillearning]
MoodyBluesKeys Offline
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Registered: 03/27/08
Posts: 3291
Loc: eastern North Carolina
In chronological order:
Baldwin 5 (tube) console church organ with Baldwin (one speed) Leslie - NOT a sim. (sold)
I did briefly own a couple of new Leslie 122, but bought them for resale and installation in churches.
Baldwin 171 Spinet Organ (donated)
Kurzweil K2661 KB3 Leslie sim (sold)
Kurzweil PC2 KB3 Leslie sim
Kurzweil PC3 KB3 Leslie sim
Nord Electro 3-73 Leslie sim (sold)
Hammond SK1-73 Leslie sim
iPad - Korg Module B3 Leslie sim
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#2843967 - 03/23/17 08:18 AM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: stillearning]
The Real MC Offline
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Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 4720
Loc: Secluded Tranquil NY Wine Coun...
Gigged with a Leslie 760 since 1981. While on a business trip in 1990, I stopped in a Guitar Center in LA (before they went national) and they had the CLS-222. I walked out of the store with it. Still have both the sim and the real thing. I gig with the CLS, and only haul the Leslie when it is justified (IE playing lots of Hammond).

When I got the XK3, I built a converter circuit to control the rotor speed of the CLS from the XK3. That gave me MIDI controlled rotor speed which was way cool.

I tried other leslie simulators but I'm too discriminating and too spoiled by the CLS. Plus most of them are tailored for guitar players not Hammonds, where the fast sim sounds OK but the slow sim sucks. The XK3c sim does sound much better than the XK3. Never did find a Vent to try out.

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#2843987 - 03/23/17 09:10 AM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: The Real MC]
Barryjam Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 261
Loc: Auburn, Northern CA
When I first saw this thread, I thought I hadn't used many sims. As I read, I remembered just how many I have used...

Motion Sound Pro3
Then added low pro
Motion Sound thing with rotor in a rack mount
Kurzweil KDB3
Now VENT II

Plus I currently have a Speakeasy Vintage Pre with a 122 output. Never use it because I cannot envision taking my Leslie 142 to a gig, but I suppose I should try it with the Vent just for giggles.


Edited by Barryjam (03/23/17 09:11 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
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Home: Steinway L, Bob Schleicher A100 chop, 142 Leslie.

Gigs: Yamaha CP4, Crumar Mojo 61, Ventilator II. Lounsbury H&F. A&H QUsb mixer, Crown & QSC amps, JBL SRX-700 series speakers

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#2843988 - 03/23/17 09:15 AM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: The Real MC]
Bob L Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/14/11
Posts: 416
In the 70s I played a Farfisa Compact with a real Leslie 825
Then 2010 - Korg CX3 Vintage (1980's) with built in sim (bad..)
Last year - Lester K (still using the vintage CX3)

I love the Lester K ... nice warm sound, add a dash of its distortion and it makes a world of difference.
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#2844004 - 03/23/17 09:53 AM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: Al Quinn]
bennyray Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/06/14
Posts: 739
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Al Quinn
This was my first. I think I bought it around 1979.



Al that is the one I had also. Brings back memories.
I remember after I quit using it I loaned it to another keyboard player and haven't seen it yet.


Edited by bennyray (03/23/17 09:54 AM)
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#2844026 - 03/23/17 10:26 AM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: The Real MC]
Legatoboy Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 3618
Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
(Pre History)
in 1967 I had a Leslie 120 (GEM/Whitehall trans. organs)
1968 brand new Leslie 145 (w/ Hammond M3)
1970 Leslie 122 (w/ Hammond C3)

(more recent - 30 years or so)
.
Dynacord CLS 222
Korg ToneWorks G4
Hughes and Kettner Rotosphere MKII
MS Pro-T3
MS KBR-3D

The Dynacord CLS was the best of the electronic sims I had owned but it did give me 'level' problems. If the output level of my organ was not set just right it would overdrive and the overdrive light would go on and off and distort not in a good way. But it had the magic when set correctly!

The CLS was recommended to me by T. Lavitz (RIP) personally at one of his gigs at the old Lonestar Roadhouse in NYC. I had already been looking at it but he was using it that night and it sounded very good so I Gassed up. Gotta miss that guy.

Now I may use any of these:

Leslie 145/Speakeasy Pre
Nord Electro 5d's Internal Sim
Korg CX-3 ver 2's Internal Sim
and occasionally the MS Pro-T3

smile smile


Edited by Legatoboy (03/23/17 01:17 PM)
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#2844041 - 03/23/17 11:14 AM Re: Your Leslie simulator history [Re: Legatoboy]
Stokely Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1623
Loc: Florida
I've never used an external one, but then I am not really an organ player per se and only play classic rock in a loud band smile

My late 80s/early 90s keys rigs included a Roland JX10 and a Proteus rack; both had an "organ" but I don't recall if they even attempted a fast leslie via mod wheel....

On the comeback trail, I reached organ Nirvana with the Motif 6--no, I jest....it sounded "organish" until you tried the fast leslie, and at that point even non-musician audience members would start wondering what was wrong.

I tried a CX3 v2 and the internal sim sounded pretty decent.

I tried (and still have) a Kurzweil pc3 and after a few tweaks I felt the internal sim was ok.

My latest is a VR-700 from Roland and it sounds really good to me in a rock setting. I imagine it doesn't stack up to the Vent or later clonewheels but nobody has complained yet (other than me, who wants something a bit more compact and lighter...just can't justify the expense right now....)

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