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#2841666 - 03/14/17 02:50 PM Red Flags--What Are Yours?
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
Loc: California
You know, those little things that pop up that let you know a gig is going to be a challenge.

Here are a couple of mine. What are yours?

"We are really easy-going people, you'll see." = Strap in, every note is going to be too loud, every song is going to be too new, and they will want you to play for an extra two hours for free.

"Can I have a little reverb in the monitor?" Spoken by a female singer, this guarantees a pitch-fest of epic proportions, with bonus rock-star syndrome for extra points.

"We like to really open stuff up." Spoken by a rock guitarist, this means, "I will solo endlessly in each song, while you hold down the groove that is on the album."

"We're going to slow it down now." = Please get me off this gig, then kill me, and the order is not important.
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#2841670 - 03/14/17 03:03 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
J. Dan Offline
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 10812
Loc: St. Louis, MO
After they sent you the set list and said we do everything just like the CD.....

"Oh, we do the live version of this one"

"Oh, yeah, we do our own version of this (so that the guitar player can play the majority of parts in what was a keyboard heavy song)"

"BTW, we do this one in a different key"
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Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2841672 - 03/14/17 03:04 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: J. Dan]
J. Dan Offline
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Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 10812
Loc: St. Louis, MO
When joining a new band....

"We practice every Thursday"
"We don't have any gigs booked yet"
After practicing the same songs for 6 months:
"Let's go through the 'New Songs'"
_________________________
Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2841673 - 03/14/17 03:14 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: J. Dan]
Michael Wright Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/05/12
Posts: 2607
We are serious, and are going to make it. roll
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#2841675 - 03/14/17 03:25 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Michael Wright]
JohnH Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/05/06
Posts: 1271
Rehearsing any burn out songs I get paid to play every week.


Edited by JohnH (03/14/17 03:25 PM)

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#2841676 - 03/14/17 03:30 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: JohnH]
J. Dan Offline
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 10812
Loc: St. Louis, MO
We're going to play Journey, Kansas, Foreigner, etc, but not stuff like "Don't Stop Believin" and "Carry On"...EVERYBODY does those, we're going to do the cool stuff like "Dixie Highway" and "Song for America" - Nobody plays those.

Me: "Um, there's a reason why nobody plays them"
Them: "Aw man those songs are awesome, it'll be totally cool"
Me: "yeah, it'll be cool in your basement until you get on stage and the 20 people who show up stand there and stare at you like WTF? There's a reason why all the bands play the POPULAR tunes"
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Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2841677 - 03/14/17 03:38 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: J. Dan]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 4236
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
We're going to play Journey, Kansas, Foreigner, etc, but not stuff like "Don't Stop Believin" and "Carry On"...EVERYBODY does those, we're going to do the cool stuff like "Dixie Highway" and "Song for America" - Nobody plays those.

Me: "Um, there's a reason why nobody plays them"
Them: "Aw man those songs are awesome, it'll be totally cool"
Me: "yeah, it'll be cool in your basement until you get on stage and the 20 people who show up stand there and stare at you like WTF? There's a reason why all the bands play the POPULAR tunes"


We play Dixie Highway wink
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Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Arturia Keylab 61 Black Edition | Mainstage |


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#2841679 - 03/14/17 03:51 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: EscapeRocks]
b3boy Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 1454
"Two more lads?" "Yeah sure"

After that

"Shall we ask them for a couple more ladies and gentlemen?"

"No that's it, we all have homes to get to and work in the morning"

"Boooo!"

Car on tickover....Large framed men eyeballing the load out.
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#2841680 - 03/14/17 04:00 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: b3boy]
Michael Wright Offline
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Registered: 01/05/12
Posts: 2607
First rehearsal, some guy hanging around?? idk Later he is introduced as our manager.
facepalm .......... I be outta there! hitt
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"being a keyboard player is like wetting yourself in a dark suit. You get a warm feeling, but nobody else notices." A Evett
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#2841682 - 03/14/17 04:01 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: EscapeRocks]
J. Dan Offline
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 10812
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
We're going to play Journey, Kansas, Foreigner, etc, but not stuff like "Don't Stop Believin" and "Carry On"...EVERYBODY does those, we're going to do the cool stuff like "Dixie Highway" and "Song for America" - Nobody plays those.

Me: "Um, there's a reason why nobody plays them"
Them: "Aw man those songs are awesome, it'll be totally cool"
Me: "yeah, it'll be cool in your basement until you get on stage and the 20 people who show up stand there and stare at you like WTF? There's a reason why all the bands play the POPULAR tunes"


We play Dixie Highway wink


How did I know you were going to chime in on that? LOL. It's a bit different when you're a Journey Tribute.
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Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2841691 - 03/14/17 04:53 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: J. Dan]
ChiefDanG Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/20/13
Posts: 230
Loc: Nashville, TN
"We have two guitarists - and both are capable of playing leads!"
(I know this has been posted before, but I actually had this said to me recently. I went to the audition anyway. Sucked, big time.)
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#2841695 - 03/14/17 05:09 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
The Real MC Offline
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Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 4448
Loc: Secluded Tranquil NY Wine Coun...
"Oh, we don't play the part with the keyboard solo. Nobody listens to them anyway."

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#2841703 - 03/14/17 05:32 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: The Real MC]
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
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#2841704 - 03/14/17 05:33 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: The Real MC]
Michael Wright Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/05/12
Posts: 2607
To keyboard player:
I don't think your part is quite right
reply: Well......perhaps if we played the correct changes???
idea
Oh and the coup de gras......we've never had a keyboard player before.
cry
_________________________
"being a keyboard player is like wetting yourself in a dark suit. You get a warm feeling, but nobody else notices." A Evett
Website
Mike

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#2841706 - 03/14/17 05:37 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Michael Wright]
mate stubb Offline
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- Marshall stack(s)
- double kick drums
- Ampeg SVT(s)
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#2841711 - 03/14/17 05:54 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: J. Dan]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 4236
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: J. Dan


How did I know you were going to chime in on that? LOL. It's a bit different when you're a Journey Tribute.


I tried really hard not to comment.. but it didn't work smile

To your point though, even as a tribute, we have to be careful at which shows we bring out some of the deeper/lesser known tracks.

A 90 minute Festival set is going to be greatest hits.

"An evening celebrating the music of Journey" will be greatest hits and selected cool tracks like Dixie Highway, Higher Place, Lovin You is Easy, etc..
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Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Arturia Keylab 61 Black Edition | Mainstage |


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#2841717 - 03/14/17 06:36 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: EscapeRocks]
Bill H. Online   content
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Registered: 05/24/04
Posts: 3792
Loc: Columbia River Gorge, US
When after sound check the rest of the band disappears, until they're eventually located in the drummer's van passing a bottle.

Umm... it's gonna be a loose night.


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#2841740 - 03/14/17 08:15 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Bill H.]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
Loc: California
Name-dropping.
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#2841750 - 03/14/17 09:28 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
KeyMoe Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 01/11/09
Posts: 1168
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
Name-dropping.


This!
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#2841776 - 03/15/17 03:32 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: KeyMoe]
johnchop Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/29/09
Posts: 1988
Loc: Georgia, US
Me: Um, pretty sure that's a C major 7, not a C7.

Them: [blank stares]

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#2841777 - 03/15/17 03:34 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: johnchop]
RobP2 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 137
Loc: Bedford, UK
"We play Hush in Ab"....cos that's the first note...

Or, for a recent audition....the guitarist is dropped off by his girlfriend, then has to leave early cos she is now back and ready to pick him up....
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#2841779 - 03/15/17 03:55 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: johnchop]
Nadroj Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 891
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Originally Posted By: johnchop
Me: Um, pretty sure that's a C major 7, not a C7.

Them: [blank stares]


This, so much. Sounds so snobby, but I always wonder how no one else in the band seems to notice the horrible clash of that b7. Always seems to be keyboard players who notice first, or even at all.
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#2841780 - 03/15/17 03:57 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: RobP2]
drawback Offline
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Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 3132
Loc: Victoria, BC Canada

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#2841782 - 03/15/17 04:27 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: RobP2]
DanL Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 3871
Loc: DE
Originally Posted By: RobP2
"We play Hush in Ab"....cos that's the first note...

Or, for a recent audition....the guitarist is dropped off by his girlfriend, then has to leave early cos she is now back and ready to pick him up....

Well at least he got there!
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#2841783 - 03/15/17 04:28 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: DanL]
DanL Offline
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Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 3871
Loc: DE
"We rehearse Monday, Thursday and all day Saturday"
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#2841787 - 03/15/17 04:41 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: drawback]
BbAltered Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/18/12
Posts: 408
Red Flag: when the want ad goes on about how they want a "committed team member", "not a hired gun", "a team player without other musical obligations", and so forth, but without any mention of what the keyboard player receives in return (hey, those guys are legends in their own minds, so just being around them should be reward enough, right?).

Here's a hint: I commit to the person or band that pays me commitment money. If you want me always available for your project, you're gonna have to pay me for those gigs I am turning down to be committed to you.
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#2841792 - 03/15/17 05:12 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: BbAltered]
cphollis Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 1803
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
So many red flags out here, it's hard to list them all.

Drummers who lose time in the middle of a song. Guitarists who need to be reminded to tune. "Mustang Sally" or "Brown Eyed Girl" on the set list. Musicians who don't understand the difference between C6 and Am7. Substance abuse. Any form of attitude. Pointless rehearsals. No gigs.

The list goes on and on.
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#2841793 - 03/15/17 05:16 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: cphollis]
16251 Online   content
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When band leader tells you that bride only wants cocktail piano for 45 minutes so you'll only get $75 (and by the way they want the piano out in that field in the sun.)
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#2841800 - 03/15/17 05:41 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: 16251]
Cabo Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 10/24/09
Posts: 91
Loc: Rochester, NY
Wow! Now I know what it's like to play with a real keyboard player. I've never played with one before. You are an awesome musician!
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#2841820 - 03/15/17 06:33 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: J. Dan]
tarkus Offline
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Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 2054
Loc: MIAMI, Fl
Bandleader: "It's Gotta Sound Just Like Da Record"

Bandleader: "Maybe you're playin in the Wrong Key"

Bandleader: "I Play Harp (Harmonica)"

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#2841822 - 03/15/17 06:37 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: tarkus]
tarkus Offline
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Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 2054
Loc: MIAMI, Fl
Me to Guitarist: "Maybe you should tilt or raise your amp to your ear level"
Guitarist to Me: "What?"

Me to Guitarist: "I have headphones if you want to tune-up before we go on."
Guitarist to me: "Thanks, but I need to get my tone"

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#2841823 - 03/15/17 06:40 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: tarkus]
stoken6 Offline
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Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 1447
"I can't hear myself, can you turn me up?"

Joking aside, Chuck's substance abuse wins in this thread for me. I restrict myself to a half-pint of beer before a gig. A full pint and I can feel my playing slip.

Cheers, Mike.
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#2841825 - 03/15/17 06:45 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: tarkus]
tarkus Offline
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Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 2054
Loc: MIAMI, Fl
"We're a jam band"

"We're not a (put band name here) tribute, but we do play a lot of their songs"

"We're gonna do another Cold Play song, because the chicks dig Cold Play"

Me: "I'm pretty sure Roadhouse Blues doesn't end in an Emaj crescendo/collision"
Bandleader: "That's the way everyone does it"

"You should put an organ bed in that part"

"He's a really good singer but tends to play harmonica on every song, but you'll get used to it."

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#2841826 - 03/15/17 06:47 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: tarkus]
tarkus Offline
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Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 2054
Loc: MIAMI, Fl
"What key is this in?" (as he looks into the suitcase of harmonicas between every song)

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#2841827 - 03/15/17 06:51 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
Wastrel Offline
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Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 2298
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
Name-dropping.

I'd forgotten that one. Right on.
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-Mark Twain

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#2841828 - 03/15/17 06:57 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: stoken6]
JerryA Offline
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Registered: 08/02/00
Posts: 6885
Loc: New England
Love the examples in this thread. Here are a few more I've heard ...

"Can we gig every weekend, and practice maybe once a month? We are so good."
"Are you sure we need a soundcheck? Sounded fine during rehearsal."
"Do I need to soundcheck at the same time as the rest of the band ... or can I get a special exemption because ...?"
"I just love how we played XYZ song at the gig the last time. It was nothing like the way we planned it. Maybe we rehearse too much?"
"Just between you and me, my voice sounds much better when I have had a few. I feel like my pitch is better too. I take a few shots in the ladies room. Don't tell the rest of the band."
"My second cousin's step daughter's uncle says he is getting married. I met him over the Thanksgiving break. So we have a very important wedding gig in three months. Not sure of date, price or logistics but you can count on it!"
From a bass player. "I don't know the song, but I think I've heard it. Don't worry. Just call it. I'll fake it. They won't hear the difference as long as we keep good time."

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#2841829 - 03/15/17 07:01 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Wastrel]
tarkus Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 2054
Loc: MIAMI, Fl


lol

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#2841831 - 03/15/17 07:02 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: tarkus]
Stokely Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1430
Loc: Florida
Mine look to all have been mentioned.

"We do the songs exactly like the original artists"
re: PA "We'll get something scrounged up by the first gig"
re: gigs "Well, we have to get enough songs learned first before we can get gigs"
re: songs "We're still working on the first group of songs, they aren't tight enough yet. It's only been a few months."

Unfortunately that pretty much describes several projects I sat through for WAY TOO LONG when I got back into playing. I had forgotten just how fast a good band (where everyone actually learns their parts) can get up to gigging form...damn fast, or should be.

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#2841836 - 03/15/17 07:09 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Stokely]
tarkus Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 2054
Loc: MIAMI, Fl
Originally Posted By: Stokely
Mine look to all have been mentioned.


re: PA "We'll get something scrounged up by the first gig"

This is usually followed by:
"Do you have room in your truck, van, suv?"

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#2841847 - 03/15/17 08:22 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: EscapeRocks]
Tonysounds Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/11/05
Posts: 8568
Loc: Albuquerque, NM
Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
We're going to play Journey, Kansas, Foreigner, etc, but not stuff like "Don't Stop Believin" and "Carry On"...EVERYBODY does those, we're going to do the cool stuff like "Dixie Highway" and "Song for America" - Nobody plays those.

Me: "Um, there's a reason why nobody plays them"
Them: "Aw man those songs are awesome, it'll be totally cool"
Me: "yeah, it'll be cool in your basement until you get on stage and the 20 people who show up stand there and stare at you like WTF? There's a reason why all the bands play the POPULAR tunes"


We play Dixie Highway wink


And I bet you do Dont Stop Believin too. wink
_________________________
Hitting "Play" does NOT constitute live performance. -Me.

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#2841850 - 03/15/17 08:33 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Tonysounds]
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 4236
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Tonysounds
Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
We're going to play Journey, Kansas, Foreigner, etc, but not stuff like "Don't Stop Believin" and "Carry On"...EVERYBODY does those, we're going to do the cool stuff like "Dixie Highway" and "Song for America" - Nobody plays those.

Me: "Um, there's a reason why nobody plays them"
Them: "Aw man those songs are awesome, it'll be totally cool"
Me: "yeah, it'll be cool in your basement until you get on stage and the 20 people who show up stand there and stare at you like WTF? There's a reason why all the bands play the POPULAR tunes"


We play Dixie Highway wink


And I bet you do Dont Stop Believin too. wink


Well, yeah, but only in D Minor...the saddest of all keys smile
_________________________
David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Arturia Keylab 61 Black Edition | Mainstage |


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#2841851 - 03/15/17 08:35 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Tonysounds]
FunkKeyStuff Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 1811
The guitarist is convinced he can't get his tone without ear-damaging volume.
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825000345

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#2841866 - 03/15/17 09:14 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: FunkKeyStuff]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5608
Loc: Rochester, NY
Club managers:
"If you have bass in the mix we are going to have to ask you to shut down" (It's reggae??? happened last week..I raised hell after that with the agent)

When subbing in with an unfamiliar band:

"Don't worry about a rehearsal, we can show you everything onstage"
_________________________
"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


noblevibes.com


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#2841906 - 03/15/17 10:43 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: timwat]
Joe Muscara Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
10k Club

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 18790
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Originally Posted By: timwat
I just shared this on FB, Tim. It really hits home.

Here's my biggest Red Flag. The word "pro," as in "we're all pro's [sic] with 20 years of experience" or "pro gear."

I have never seen a real professional musician say they were a "pro" in order to find other musicians, whether in an ad (pros don't need ads, they already know people), or just talking to people.

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#2841933 - 03/15/17 11:50 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Joe Muscara]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5608
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Originally Posted By: timwat
I just shared this on FB, Tim. It really hits home.

Here's my biggest Red Flag. The word "pro," as in "we're all pro's [sic] with 20 years of experience" or "pro gear."

I have never seen a real professional musician say they were a "pro" in order to find other musicians, whether in an ad (pros don't need ads, they already know people), or just talking to people.


Yeah you see that on all the craigslist ads.
_________________________
"Danny, ci manchi a tutti. La E-Street Band non e' la stessa senza di te. Riposa in pace, fratello"


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#2841939 - 03/15/17 12:00 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Outkaster]
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 5244
Loc: Concord,CA,UNITED STATES
Yeah, now that my music time is 100% paying projects, I just don't have bandwidth for labor-of-love, all-originals or someone else's vision kind of things. There's nothing wrong with those gigs, it's just not in the cards for me at the moment.

I've basically given myself until after things settle down after my wedding to dive back into my OWN originals project, which I back-burnered for the sake of focusing on more important things.

So when I devote time to a labor-of-love, it will be to finally do my own recording.

Now, I'm also reminded this board has players from every genre, experience level, musical income level, notoriety and fame. So I try to be careful not to pee on musical opportunities that other board members are really into (that aren't my cuppa').

But for me, yeah, if it's not my own vanity project, right now it's gotta pay. And if we have to rehearse a lot, it's really gotta be worth it.
_________________________
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#2841955 - 03/15/17 01:04 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: timwat]
Toano88 Offline
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Registered: 04/30/10
Posts: 2359
Loc: Toano, Virginia, USA
Quote:
But for me, yeah, if it's not my own vanity project, right now it's gotta pay. And if we have to rehearse a lot, it's really gotta be worth it.


Agree totally, but will add that if they point me to some mp3 files of their project and I am totally blown away at their inventiveness and taste then I would reconsider.

That hasn't happened yet. So for me its been 'How much does the gig pay?"
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#2841956 - 03/15/17 01:16 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: timwat]
drawback Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 3132
Loc: Victoria, BC Canada
Originally Posted By: timwat
...not in the cards for me at the moment...

...after things settle down...focusing on more important things...

...labor-of-love...

...right now...


Red flags.

wave grin wink

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#2841957 - 03/15/17 01:19 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: drawback]
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 5244
Loc: Concord,CA,UNITED STATES
Originally Posted By: drawback
Originally Posted By: timwat
...not in the cards for me at the moment...

...after things settle down...focusing on more important things...

...labor-of-love...

...right now...


Red flags.

wave grin wink



I got two words for ya:

Nord. Lead.
_________________________
"I'm not just untalented. I'm multi untalented."

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#2841990 - 03/15/17 02:57 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: timwat]
Dave Keys Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/28/14
Posts: 37
Loc: Birmingham UK
Guitarist: "I don't care if the Crusaders play streetlife with a B7, I'm playing Ebm7 there and I'm pulling rank cos' it's my band".
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#2842003 - 03/15/17 03:43 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Dave Keys]
TommyS Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 500
Loc: SoCal
Majority of guitar players I work with: " Who are the Crusaders?"

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#2842033 - 03/15/17 05:29 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: TommyS]
John Tweed Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/04/11
Posts: 206
Loc: Sydney, Australia
Artist: we're doing all the songs on my CD in the show
Musical Director: we're doing the songs from the last show
Artist: all the songs will be in the same key as the CD
MD: we've never played any of these songs before so we don't know the keys
Drummer: we can't do that song, it's too complicated
Artist: all the recordings were done with backing tracks but I play this one on the guitar like this
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#2842045 - 03/15/17 06:27 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: John Tweed]
MotiDave Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1444
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
These are all good. I was going to jump into the Journey discussion, i'm 100% in agreement with Dan on avoiding like a plague any band that is committed to NOT playing hits. But we all know Escape plays every hit. Every tribute needs a few B-sides to fill out a full show, but the outlier aside if its a truncated set list, those are the first ditched. Don't Stop Believing is the most frequent closing song of seasoned Journey tribs for a very good reason - its their biggest song.

If a band is to play but one Journey song, that is the song to play. don't even discuss a band that doesn't get that fact.

But then ... then I saw TimW's. I love TimW's plan to have much MORE TIME for new music projects AFTER the marriage the best smile

if any guy can pull that off ... he's the one. I'm not betting against him.
_________________________
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#2842063 - 03/15/17 08:26 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MotiDave]
allan_evett Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 3651
Loc: Westville, IN
Runner up, from 2001: After I placed my keyboard amp at head level, next to my rig.
Guitarist, "That's the stupidest thing I've ever seen".
Had to really bite my tongue after hearing that.




Edited by allan_evett (03/15/17 08:49 PM)
_________________________
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#2842065 - 03/15/17 08:40 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: TommyS]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Dave Keys
Guitarist: "I don't care if the Crusaders play streetlife with a B7, I'm playing Ebm7 there and I'm pulling rank cos' it's my band".


Originally Posted By: TommyS
Majority of guitar players I work with: " Who are the Crusaders?"


"....And what's a minor 7?"
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#2842066 - 03/15/17 08:41 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MotiDave]
MathOfInsects Online   content
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Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: MotiDave

But then ... then I saw TimW's. I love TimW's plan to have much MORE TIME for new music projects AFTER the marriage the best smile


I thought EXACTLY the same thing. "Love you, bud, but good luck with that..."
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#2842067 - 03/15/17 08:44 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: allan_evett]
cphollis Offline
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Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 1803
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Tim, married guy speaking here. 35 years, most of them good smile My woman is incredibly strong, as yours appears to be.

Invest in your marriage. Even if it means backing off the music thing for a bit. You can always come back later. As I did.

Just sayin'

-- Chuck
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#2842068 - 03/15/17 08:52 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: cphollis]
Ledbetter Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/26/14
Posts: 188
Loc: California
1. More than one guitarist, lead or not.
2. Amps pointed at their ankles.
3. Can't tell the difference between Dm and Gsus (Song: All Right Now. Solution? "Just don't play anything there.")
4. Studio rent for the place the bandleader keeps his gear, sometimes on his own property.
5. Lead singer has a cowbell.
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#2842070 - 03/15/17 08:55 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: cphollis]
allan_evett Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/18/09
Posts: 3651
Loc: Westville, IN
My mid gig conversation with a bandleader about one of the club's huge and painfully loud, powered PA cabinets, which was placed in the back center of a very small stage. (The other speaker was in the typical place - to one side of the stage, facing outward).

Bandleader: "No way the owner will move that speaker. He's got to have it there for his jam nights. And anyway I was going to ask you to move back and center a little more for the next gig here"
Me: "That would be even worse. The speaker was giving me a major headache, and I was starting to feel nauseous...."
Bandleader: "But you'll be able to hear your keys and the vocals much better"
Me: "I have an amp for my keys, and you run a monitor send to it. And like I said, the speaker's volume was making me feel a bit sick"
Bandleader: Well, I really don't like that amp up there; we could use the space.... Look, maybe this isn't the right room for you"

I corrected the bandleader, not too long after that gig, and informed him it just wasn't the right band for me..



Edited by allan_evett (03/15/17 08:57 PM)
_________________________
"Someday, we will look back on these days and laugh. It may be a maniacal laugh from within the confines of our padded cells, but it will be a laugh nonetheless" - Mr. Boffo.








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#2842071 - 03/15/17 09:02 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Ledbetter]
cphollis Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 1803
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Originally Posted By: Ledbetter
1. More than one guitarist, lead or not.
2. Amps pointed at their ankles.
3. Can't tell the difference between Dm and Gsus (Song: All Right Now. Solution? "Just don't play anything there.")
4. Studio rent for the place the bandleader keeps his gear, sometimes on his own property.
5. Lead singer has a cowbell.


1. I have conquered more than a few dual guitar bands. I just play circles around them, and they usually back down. Sorry, this is my space guys. I can do more with my fingers than you can do with yours. Especially when I can play signature guitar parts better than you.

If they don't accommodate, I leave.

2. Hah! Tonight I introduced a decent guitarist to the whole concept of "amp stand". I brought one for him. He was blown away, and thanked me deeply. A revelation to him. Glad I could help.

3. Yeah. People who've never been exposed to music theory and ear training tend to munge chords badly. You see it all the time on crappy internet tabs. If they're willing, I show them a better way. If they don't appreciate that, I leave.

4. Economics are tough. I try to understand that people do the best they can with what they have. Better than playing in the wife's living room and getting the stink eye.

5. MOAR COWBELL!!!
_________________________
Life is too short to be playing bad music.

Keys: Nord Stage 2, Piano 2, Electro 4D
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#2842081 - 03/15/17 10:08 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: cphollis]
Ledbetter Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/26/14
Posts: 188
Loc: California
Add one: screwing up the beginning to "Sweet Child of Mine" every single time. Every. Single. Time. A name-dropper, as well.
_________________________
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#2842087 - 03/15/17 10:59 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Ledbetter]
Tom Williams Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/04/14
Posts: 548
Loc: West Virginia
I learned this lesson around 1992.

Front-lady (the star): "My husband will be running sound."

Translation: "I get two shares, and my talentless husband gets one share, and the rest of you gullible fools get one share each for making me sound good."
===
Multiple guitarists don't scare me -- I worked a couple of years with a band that had 3 guitarists. When they set up a song with a double lead (other guy on rhythm) I pulled out my AX-1 (driving an Ensoniq SQ32) and made it into a triple lead. The band and the audience loved it.
===
Current red flag:

"Let's record this nice original song."
"Okay," says I, "are we gonna lay down a reference track and then add our parts in a deliberate fashion, correcting takes as necessary?"
"Oh, no," says the guitarist, "We'll record it all at once, just like Tom Petty."
_________________________
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<First name><At>AirNetworking<dot>com
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#2842094 - 03/16/17 12:33 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Tom Williams]
HammondDave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 6807
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Let's play "Mustang Sally!"
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'55 and '59 B3's, Leslies 147, 122, 21H, Motif XS7, Mellotrons M300 and M400, Wurlitzer 200, Gibson G101, Vox Continental, Mojo

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#2842105 - 03/16/17 02:32 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: HammondDave]
Lee T Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 09/21/15
Posts: 94
Loc: North West UK
Originally Posted By: HammondDave
Let's play "Mustang Sally!"


This, plus Summer of 69.
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So many drummers, so little time.

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#2842106 - 03/16/17 02:34 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: HammondDave]
RobP2 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 137
Loc: Bedford, UK
Two recent ones -

a singer who has no PA and asked if the band could all chip together to buy one. Sure, when you chip in for my £2k worth of keyboards....

And, in an add "we expect 110% commitment and for you not to be involved in any other music projects." Great, I take it you will be paying me a full time salary then?
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#2842114 - 03/16/17 04:26 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: RobP2]
Nadroj Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 891
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Quote:
"we expect 110% commitment and for you not to be involved in any other music projects."


Bloody hell, I'd be out of there like a shot.
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#2842123 - 03/16/17 04:52 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: JerryA]
DanL Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 3871
Loc: DE
Originally Posted By: JerryA


"Can we gig every weekend, and practice maybe once a month? We are so good."


If you play every weekend, why do you need to practice? Once a month to learn new tunes is plenty if you are playing the rest of the show every weekend... at least that's how it works in my band.

Quote:
Front-lady (the star): "My husband will be running sound."

lol. there is a woman singer in this area whose husband is part of the package for that same reason. His job is to turn her up louder than anyone in the band. After being asked to leave the last band she was in for this reason, she now "gigs" with a karaoke app and her husband runs "sound" for her. Which means, I'm guessing, pressing play on the next song and adjusting her vocal to be louder than the backing tracks. Her schtick is "the 1st woman rock singer from India" except she was born and raised in a white collar suburban neighborhood, and just happens to be of Indian descent.
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#2842142 - 03/16/17 06:48 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: DanL]
Michael Wright Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/05/12
Posts: 2607
Any husband wife teams. At least in my experience.
_________________________
"being a keyboard player is like wetting yourself in a dark suit. You get a warm feeling, but nobody else notices." A Evett
Website
Mike

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#2842143 - 03/16/17 06:55 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: DanL]
Stokely Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1430
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: DanL
Originally Posted By: JerryA


"Can we gig every weekend, and practice maybe once a month? We are so good."


If you play every weekend, why do you need to practice? Once a month to learn new tunes is plenty if you are playing the rest of the show every weekend... at least that's how it works in my band.


Yeah, if anything constant practicing after we reach gigging song volume would be a reason for me not to join. With two kids at home my time is limited, and I've found that we can often play certain songs for the first time at certain gigs (not higher-profile ones) with no practice at all. Obviously some songs may not work well like this smile

If everyone learns their parts--a big IF going by my last 5 bands--no reason you can't knock out five or more new tunes in a practice. Again, depending on what they are...we are classic rock oldies where some tunes if you say the key we can figure it out from memory...if you were a Yes tribute band, not so much grin

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#2842146 - 03/16/17 07:01 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Michael Wright]
Wastrel Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 2298
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Michael Wright
Any husband wife teams. At least in my experience.

To include boyfriend girlfriend teams. Marriage isn't necessarily the only prerequisite for disaster.
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“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it’s time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain

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#2842148 - 03/16/17 07:04 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Stokely]
stoken6 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 1447
Originally Posted By: cphollis
Tonight I introduced a decent guitarist to the whole concept of "amp stand". I brought one for him. He was blown away, and thanked me deeply. A revelation to him. Glad I could help.
Congratulations. That's almost precisely the definition of "decent" guitarist. The opposite of this is the guy who says "no, it has to be on the floor, my tone sounds wrong on the stand".

Originally Posted By: HammondDave
Let's play "Mustang Sally!"
Yeah, overplayed, but... try playing it "properly". Slower, with pocket and a decent groove. I don't mind playing MS if we take it seriously. But it is overplayed, I grant you.



Originally Posted By: Stokely
If everyone learns their parts--a big IF going by my last 5 bands--no reason you can't knock out five or more new tunes in a practice.
This. I worked in a band where Guitar 2 expected to be told what to play, and to be handed a chart. I haven't got time for that any more. I don't mind doing charts, but to have someone gaze at it and incredulously ask "gee MINOR seventh?". He's now left, and Guitar 1 and I are putting together an old-school soul band with horns. Which means (thread derail) I'm learning all about horn arrangements - which it turns out I love.

Cheers, Mike.


Edited by stoken6 (03/16/17 07:05 AM)
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#2842154 - 03/16/17 07:14 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: DanL]
JerryA Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/02/00
Posts: 6885
Loc: New England
Originally Posted By: DanL
Originally Posted By: JerryA
"Can we gig every weekend, and practice maybe once a month? We are so good."


If you play every weekend, why do you need to practice? Once a month to learn new tunes is plenty if you are playing the rest of the show every weekend... at least that's how it works in my band.


Absolutely. I should have clarified. This was a red flag to me ... a comment made in a new band coming together, not an established band with a developed setlist.

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#2842155 - 03/16/17 07:16 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: stoken6]
tarkus Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 2054
Loc: MIAMI, Fl
"we tune down a half step because the singer can't hit the high notes... you might wanna tune down your KB a 1/2 step..."

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#2842181 - 03/16/17 08:48 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: tarkus]
Stokely Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1430
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: tarkus
"we tune down a half step because the singer can't hit the high notes... you might wanna tune down your KB a 1/2 step..."




We tune down, but not so much that the singer(s) can't hit the notes...they gig so much between an acoustic duo and the full band--4 gigs in a weekend isn't that uncommon--that it really helps with endurance. I just globally transpose each keyboard at the start of the show, though once when I lost power I forgot to do one of them....surprise! "That was a jazz chord!"

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#2842186 - 03/16/17 09:39 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Stokely]
El Lobo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/23/14
Posts: 652
wife is vocals and keys player (very good) and husband is ... the drummer
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#2842189 - 03/16/17 09:46 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: El Lobo]
Synthoid Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 9220
Loc: Pennsylvania, USA
Originally Posted By: El Lobo
wife is vocals and keys player (very good) and husband is ... the drummer


Run away! crazy
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To stop the flow of music would be like the stopping of time itself, incredible and inconceivable.
-- Aaron Copland

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#2842192 - 03/16/17 09:51 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: RobP2]
El Lobo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/23/14
Posts: 652
Originally Posted By: RobP2
"we expect 110% commitment and for you not to be involved in any other music projects."
This would be fine, assuming it means they have 2-3 gigs a week lined up for the next 6 months of the gig calendar or are preparing for a tour that's already booked. But this kind of thing is usually said by a band that's just getting together, has no gigs, and hasn't rehearsed yet or even settled on who the members are.
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#2842197 - 03/16/17 09:59 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: DanL]
Legatoboy Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 3445
Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
"We don't want to take the band out till we're perfect...."

All well and good and should be strived for, I agree, but please define 'perfect' for me once again!
.....then the 1st gig is 8-9 months in the future.
Never again....covers present their own set of problemas don't they!
_________________________
Where words fail, music speaks volumes

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#2842199 - 03/16/17 10:06 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Legatoboy]
area51recording Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: Newburgh,IN
Yeah....."This isn't going to be just a normal bar band.....we're going to rehearse for AT LEAST A YEAR and record a CD before we do any gigs".......I've already lived WAY longer than I was anticipating, don't think I should look that far ahead....

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#2842200 - 03/16/17 10:08 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Legatoboy]
marczellm Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 737
Loc: Budapest, Hungary
Bad grammar and spelling in written communication is not a show stopper in itself, but can be a red flag.
_________________________
Life is subtractive.
Current: Jazz, funk, rock, pop, Christian worship, BebHop
Wishlist: 80s-ish (synth)pop, symphonic pop, prog rock, fusion, musical theatre
Gear: NS2 + JUNO-G


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#2842206 - 03/16/17 10:42 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: marczellm]
Legatoboy Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 3445
Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
"Bad grammar and spelling in written communication is not a show stopper in itself, but can be a red flag."

Defn: 'Problema' cop taz cheers
( See also:
problemática, problemático, problematizar, probable)

(Guess I just hail from a different era!)

Marczell that's American slang, we use a Spanish word here and there..




Edited by Legatoboy (03/16/17 10:52 AM)
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Where words fail, music speaks volumes

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#2842208 - 03/16/17 10:50 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Legatoboy]
Wastrel Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 2298
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
"Bad grammar and spelling in written communication is not a show stopper in itself, but can be a red flag."

Defn: 'Problema' cop taz cheers
( See also:
problemática, problemático, problematizar, probable)

Guess I just hail from a different era!



The one that gets me is when some idiot "corrects" me and says "it's problemo" (hint: it isn't)
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“Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it’s time to pause and reflect.”
-Mark Twain

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#2842214 - 03/16/17 11:01 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Wastrel]
Legatoboy Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 3445
Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
Originally Posted By: Wastrel
Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
"Bad grammar and spelling in written communication is not a show stopper in itself, but can be a red flag."

Defn: 'Problema' cop taz cheers
( See also:
problemática, problemático, problematizar, probable)

Guess I just hail from a different era!



The one that gets me is when some idiot "corrects" me and says "it's problemo" (hint: it isn't)


Problemo Defn. is a Problema .... like
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Where words fail, music speaks volumes

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#2842215 - 03/16/17 11:05 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Legatoboy]
DanL Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 3871
Loc: DE
Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
"We don't want to take the band out till we're perfect...."

All well and good and should be strived for, I agree, but please define 'perfect' for me once again!
.....then the 1st gig is 8-9 months in the future.
Never again....covers present their own set of problemas don't they!


Normally this is a red flag for me, for a bar/cover band. We honestly waited with our Floyd tribute for almost a year to work our show up and get it as good as possible. When you expect people to pay $20+ for tickets, you have to be good.
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#2842225 - 03/16/17 11:46 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: RobP2]
Joe Muscara Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
10k Club

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 18790
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Originally Posted By: Ledbetter
5. Lead singer has a cowbell.
If it's this band I take the gig! (Though the keyboard player plays rings around me. wink )




Originally Posted By: RobP2
we expect 110% commitment and for you not to be involved in any other music projects
Pretty much anything where they're talking about how I run *my* business or who I am such as age, whether I have a "reliable" car (it worked today...), what kind of gear I have or that they have, etc. is a red flag. That's because they clearly already have baggage.

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#2842235 - 03/16/17 12:22 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Joe Muscara]
Stokely Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1430
Loc: Florida
My favorite overall red flag is something I call the "Angry Craigslist Band ad".

Thankfully I'm not looking these days, but there was a time...

first sign of this is a giant long bunch of text. Ok, let's read it.
These ads start off nice, and might even get you interested based on the type of music etc.

Then the anger starts to build as the ad writer starts in on the things they *don't* want.
"Please don't think about joining this band if you can't show up on time."

The longer the ad goes, the angrier it gets, and more details start creeping in:
"If you have a crazy girlfriend who is going to yell at the band because she doesn't see you enough, you're not man enough to be in this band."

I know what causes this, because I've been on the other side: endless auditions causing the band to never leave the ground. But ad dude: keep it short, keep it positive, and don't scare away people!

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#2842238 - 03/16/17 12:44 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: HammondDave]
lerber3 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 491
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
Originally Posted By: HammondDave
Let's play "Mustang Sally!"


Let's rehearse Mustang Sally.

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#2842239 - 03/16/17 12:48 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: lerber3]
area51recording Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: Newburgh,IN
Originally Posted By: lerber3
Originally Posted By: HammondDave
Let's play "Mustang Sally!"


Let's rehearse Mustang Sally.


And take it someplace its never been taken before....

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#2842264 - 03/16/17 02:22 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: area51recording]
stoken6 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 1447
Originally Posted By: area51recording
Originally Posted By: lerber3
Let's rehearse Mustang Sally.
And take it someplace its never been taken before....

LOL.

"How about Mustang Sally - but... over a kind of dub/hop/trip/prog-steady groove, with a sort of psychotronica/metal-bop attitude."

Cheers, Mike.
_________________________
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#2842266 - 03/16/17 02:35 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Stokely]
Joe Muscara Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
10k Club

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 18790
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Originally Posted By: Stokely
My favorite overall red flag is something I call the "Angry Craigslist Band ad".

Thankfully I'm not looking these days, but there was a time...

first sign of this is a giant long bunch of text. Ok, let's read it.
These ads start off nice, and might even get you interested based on the type of music etc.

Then the anger starts to build as the ad writer starts in on the things they *don't* want.
"Please don't think about joining this band if you can't show up on time."

The longer the ad goes, the angrier it gets, and more details start creeping in:
"If you have a crazy girlfriend who is going to yell at the band because she doesn't see you enough, you're not man enough to be in this band."

I know what causes this, because I've been on the other side: endless auditions causing the band to never leave the ground. But ad dude: keep it short, keep it positive, and don't scare away people!
Yeah, this is the logical next step of red flags after what I was getting at. Yeesh.

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#2842272 - 03/16/17 03:04 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: area51recording]
El Lobo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/23/14
Posts: 652
Originally Posted By: area51recording
Originally Posted By: lerber3
Originally Posted By: HammondDave
Let's play "Mustang Sally!"


Let's rehearse Mustang Sally.


And take it someplace its never been taken before....
and stick it where the sun don't shine
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#2842276 - 03/16/17 03:19 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: El Lobo]
Nadroj Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 891
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
"Just play some 'synth' in the background."

*While talking about a rhodes part* "Isn't that supposed to be a 'hammond' sound?"

*While talking about a staccatto sine lead* "Isn't that supposed to be an electric piano?"

In fact, "isn't that suppoed to be..." anything is a red flag for me. Along with "that's not X, that's Y." I'm all for being given critical feedback and advice and taking it on board, but when the drummer with a bad ear suddenly thinks he's a producer I start to get a twitch.
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#2842282 - 03/16/17 03:26 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Nadroj]
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 4236
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Nadroj
"
In fact, "isn't that supposed to be..." anything is a red flag for me.


A very long time ago when we were auditioning lead vocalists, I had one come in and tell me I was playing a song wrong using that exact line.

I put him on the spot and played dumb, and asked him to show me. He could play piano. It was a train wreck, not even close to right, and needless to say he did not get the job wink
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Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Arturia Keylab 61 Black Edition | Mainstage |


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#2842286 - 03/16/17 03:42 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: EscapeRocks]
ITGITC? Offline
Grand Poobah of Posting
10k Club

Registered: 12/18/02
Posts: 17418
Loc: USA

"Hello. I am the mother of the bride."
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#2842292 - 03/16/17 04:28 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MotiDave]
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 5244
Loc: Concord,CA,UNITED STATES
Originally Posted By: MotiDave
But then ... then I saw TimW's. I love TimW's plan to have much MORE TIME for new music projects AFTER the marriage the best smile

if any guy can pull that off ... he's the one. I'm not betting against him.


Well, I'm humbled. Thanks so much for the kind words.

And yes, the rest of you guys may be correct with your...hesitation. But this isn't my first rodeo (was married for 19 years...) so I'm not unfamiliar with how married life works. I'm a realist. There is an appointed season for all things, and my beloved is indeed a strong and special lady. We'll see when my project gets recorded; I've waiting this long so I'm not in a rush.

And...you may say I'm a dreamer. But I'm not the only one. I hope one day you will...c'mon, you know the words, sing along...
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#2842333 - 03/16/17 08:46 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: timwat]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
Loc: California
This is not as foolproof as some of the others, but: noodling.
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#2842334 - 03/16/17 08:50 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 5244
Loc: Concord,CA,UNITED STATES
As far as red flags, perhaps the ONE thing that sets me off more than others is (if this what Math is referring to): meaningless riffing before downbeat.

Soundcheck is one thing, quietly reminding oneself of a lick or two is another...but just wanking away is a sure sign of an amateur.

Don't give everything away. Have the sureness to only play when you need to. For the love of all that is holy, step away from the instrument until you have something intentional to say.

MoI, Is that the noodling you're also referring to?
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#2842335 - 03/16/17 09:01 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: timwat]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
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The very noodles.
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#2842338 - 03/16/17 09:28 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: timwat]
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 4236
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: timwat
As far as red flags, perhaps the ONE thing that sets me off more than others is (if this what Math is referring to): meaningless riffing before downbeat.



Right there with ya!!

For some reason, around here on the occasions I am able to make it out to clubs, it seems it's the keyboard players doing the needless and incessant noodling. It's as if they are trying to impress the people in the place with a so called palette of riffs from any, and every pop song form the last 40 years.

However, to my ear, you can tell, the little snippets they play is probably all they know.
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Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Arturia Keylab 61 Black Edition | Mainstage |


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#2842339 - 03/16/17 09:34 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: EscapeRocks]
JimboK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/04/08
Posts: 326
Loc: California
Best quote on thread thus far:

"Don't give everything away. Have the sureness to only play when you need to. For the love of all that is holy, step away from the instrument until you have something intentional to say. "

Noodlers are more then a red flag however, they are instant deal killers but still an awesome line.
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#2842346 - 03/16/17 10:23 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: JimboK]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
Loc: California
I think it's a pretty reliable barometer, but I know a few great players who also make tubs of noodles all the time, so I'm only willing to put it in the "early warning detection" section, rather than the deal-killer aisle.
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#2842348 - 03/16/17 10:44 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
J. Dan Offline
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 10812
Loc: St. Louis, MO
One man's noodle is another man's lasagna.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2842354 - 03/16/17 11:51 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: J. Dan]
Pete the bean Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 43
Loc: Canada
No flags in this posting!

Older Sensual Female Singer
Hi! My name is Cheryl. I'm an older female singer/writer and I'm looking for a jazzy r&b mellow group to join. My voice has been compared to Sade, Norah Jones and Patti LaBelle. I do write my own stuff as well, and to be honest, most of my best writing is done while I'm on the toilet during prolonged bowel movements. If you feel like jamming or if you'd like to connect for an audition please do reach out. I very much look forward to hearing from you. Please do not use the CL e-mail address to reach me, please use my direct e-mail:
show contact info
. Thank you.
do NOT contact me with unsolicited services or offers
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#2842357 - 03/17/17 12:28 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Pete the bean]
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5385
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
THE singer : I don't really know this song but I got this arrangement off sheet music plus. I hope you don't mind that it's 7 pages long…I did tape it though.
But I don't think it's my key.

Turns out it's a Blues in G. facepalm
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#2842361 - 03/17/17 01:56 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: tarkus]
elsongs Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/15/11
Posts: 232
Loc: Los Angeles, CA, USA
In a cover band situation: When the guitarist plays the EXACT SAME part as you in nearly every song, including rhythm and octave, except MUCH LOUDER. Ugh.

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#2842362 - 03/17/17 02:22 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: elsongs]
RobP2 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 137
Loc: Bedford, UK
One function band that I quickly left -
the guitarist played Johhny B Goode from sheets - yes sheets - on a music stand, complete with short pause to turn the page

And, we rehearsed at the drummer's mother's house (band were all 35+)

Then there was the singer who auditioned for another band of mine. Turned up with girlfriend (both late 50s)
He had leather trousers, white shirt open to the waist....and sounded truly awful. At the end of the first number his girlfriend points to the bass player and says "he played a wrong note in the chorus". Sometimes you wonder if you are on a hidden camera show....
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#2842374 - 03/17/17 04:37 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: RobP2]
DanL Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 3871
Loc: DE
I think angry CL guy at least is being honest about what they want- and like most of us, being on that end of things and trying to find players can be frustrating. Luckily all the players I work with are found via recommendation/word of mouth from others in my circle of musician associates.

Way back at the beginning of our party band we put up a CL ad for a singer. If you watch the Simpsons, there was an episode where they had a heavy set white guy who sang like Michael Jackson- a clone of that guy showed up to audition. It's also the ad where we found the girl who's been with us for the last 9 years- one of the most down to earth, no diva/drama, intelligent, and talented people you'd ever want to meet. She's also the one who sings "Great Gig" in my Floyd band now.

I'm laughing at the sheet music for Blues in G and JBG. I saw a Floyd band where the keys player has this giant rack (it looks like one of those stainless steel kitchen shelves) with 5' long charts of the songs that she read on every song. It was so big and tall that she set up sideways, facing away from the band. How many times do you need to read the chart for Money or Wish You Were Here? That'd be a red flag for me- unless you are doing Real Book stuff, or doing a fill in gig, you should be able to memorize your parts. All of my bands have an unwritten "no charts" rule. The drummer in 1 band uses some cheat sheets for lyrics on songs he sings, but his music stand is stuck in with his drum kit and not really visible. I hate seeing a lead singer or other front players with a giant binder of songs sitting in the middle of the stage.
_________________________
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#2842384 - 03/17/17 05:44 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: DanL]
stoken6 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 1447
Flag that turned out not to be red:

New sax player in the soul band I'm putting together with long-time guitar/vocals colleague - starts telling us all about his other project (which is cool) and how that takes up most of his time. (So why are you looking for another band?)

After first rehearsal, he seems much more into it, and says "I've got a great idea for a song". I groan inwardly, and then he follows up with "I've got charts for everyone, and I'll sing it".

I'm sure we all recognise the point when a newbie suggests a song to a long-established covers band. But if you're going to do it, do it this way.

Cheers, Mike.
_________________________
AX48.PM351.FC7.VFP2
One or two keyboards.

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#2842385 - 03/17/17 05:46 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: elsongs]
Stokely Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1430
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: elsongs
In a cover band situation: When the guitarist plays the EXACT SAME part as you in nearly every song, including rhythm and octave, except MUCH LOUDER. Ugh.


Yes...a couple bands ago our lineup had two guitarists. One who played open chords rhythm with a capo if necessary (which made him out of tune). The other guy was the "lead player" and by God there was a lead going on all the time...He noodled during verses, he noodled during choruses. I had a couple tunes with prominent, if easy, keyboard parts...one was New Years Day by U2. Well, he decides he's now going to double the freaking electric grand "lead" I do on that song....not like that song is not packed full of guitar, give me my 10 seconds of fame pal!

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#2842396 - 03/17/17 06:27 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: RobP2]
tarkus Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/04/04
Posts: 2054
Loc: MIAMI, Fl
Originally Posted By: RobP2

Then there was the singer who auditioned for another band of mine. Turned up with girlfriend (both late 50s)
He had leather trousers, white shirt open to the waist....and sounded truly awful. At the end of the first number his girlfriend points to the bass player and says "he played a wrong note in the chorus". Sometimes you wonder if you are on a hidden camera show....

This conjured up an image of the Great Tony Rolletti

(bonus: Tom Waits at the 36 min mark during Tony Rolletti's Wedding)

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#2842402 - 03/17/17 06:58 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: ITGITC?]
Wastrel Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 2298
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: ITGITC?

"Hello. I am the mother of the bride."


God yes. The queen for a day syndrome. How I have suffered at the hands of evil MOTBs.
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-Mark Twain

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#2842405 - 03/17/17 07:04 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: tarkus]
Wastrel Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 2298
Loc: Los Angeles
Originally Posted By: tarkus
Originally Posted By: RobP2

Then there was the singer who auditioned for another band of mine. Turned up with girlfriend (both late 50s)
He had leather trousers, white shirt open to the waist....and sounded truly awful. At the end of the first number his girlfriend points to the bass player and says "he played a wrong note in the chorus". Sometimes you wonder if you are on a hidden camera show....

This conjured up an image of the Great Tony Rolletti

(bonus: Tom Waits at the 36 min mark during Tony Rolletti's Wedding)

He (Bill Kirchenbauer) is one Funny dude. He was a friend of the singer in my band back in the '70s and I saw him a couple of times at the Comedy & Magic Club. Laughed so hard and long I injured myself.
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-Mark Twain

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#2842445 - 03/17/17 10:10 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Wastrel]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
Loc: California
As I get older, I find other older players not wearing ear plugs to be a red flag. I figure there is no way they can hear well enough, to play well in a group. It's pretty reliable.
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#2842446 - 03/17/17 10:12 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Wastrel]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Wastrel
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
Name-dropping.

I'd forgotten that one. Right on.

Originally Posted By: Wastrel
He (Bill Kirchenbauer) is one Funny dude. He was a friend of the singer in my band back in the '70s and I saw him a couple of times at the Comedy & Magic Club. Laughed so hard and long I injured myself.

Red flag!!!

poke
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#2842447 - 03/17/17 10:18 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
David Loving Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/11/00
Posts: 4874
Loc: Texas
Guitar/ bass play seated; They play any "Guess Who"
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#2842449 - 03/17/17 10:34 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
DanL Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 3871
Loc: DE
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
As I get older, I find other older players not wearing ear plugs to be a red flag. I figure there is no way they can hear well enough, to play well in a group. It's pretty reliable.


I rarely use them. Not with any of my regular bands but there are a couple fill ins and some other shows that are these rotating players every song/ensemble type things where I wear them- especially back stage while I'm waiting for my next turn on keys.
_________________________
Live: Roland FA-08, Nord Electro 5d Nord Lead A1
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www.bksband.com
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#2842450 - 03/17/17 10:35 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: DanL]
DanL Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 3871
Loc: DE
On that note, our new guitar player in the party band kept commenting about how in control our volume is at rehearsal and on stage.
_________________________
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#2842454 - 03/17/17 10:42 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: DanL]
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 5244
Loc: Concord,CA,UNITED STATES
What?
_________________________
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#2842456 - 03/17/17 10:46 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
El Lobo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/23/14
Posts: 652
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
As I get older, I find other older players not wearing ear plugs to be a red flag. I figure there is no way they can hear well enough, to play well in a group. It's pretty reliable.
I have custom ear plugs but I never use them because the bands I play with keep the volume to mid-level so the plugs aren't necessary. My red flag is bands that play so loud that ear plugs are required. That means they're amateurs who don't know how to control volume and don't know how to use their gear.
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Nord Electro 5D, Casio WK-6600, Roland Lucina, Roland Aerophone, 5 saxes, 2 guitars, melodica, QSC K8's, PA, mixers, amps, speakers, etc.

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#2842458 - 03/17/17 10:48 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: El Lobo]
Morizzle Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 08/06/08
Posts: 1163
Loc: a planet
Piano ties. Treble clef ties. Any music related ties.
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Sequential Circuits Prophet 6 - Nord Lead A1 - Nord Electro 5D 61 - Nord Piano - Crumar Mojo - Moog Little Phatty - Roland FA 06 - Yamaha U1 - QSC K10

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#2842460 - 03/17/17 10:52 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Morizzle]
Michael Wright Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/05/12
Posts: 2607
Originally Posted By: Morizzle
Piano ties. Treble clef ties. Any music related ties.
Scarves, bags, underwear. facepalm w00t
_________________________
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#2842462 - 03/17/17 10:53 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: El Lobo]
tucktronix Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: Rochester, NY
Band I was in more than 22 years ago..

Bass player" "I know the deputy major.. my cousin works for the local newspaper"

Typical words from a member of a "basement dweller" band, and that was where we stayed for the better part of 2 yrs outside of a few gigs at the same bar.

Hey, I was young and very naive then crazy


Edited by tucktronix (03/17/17 10:55 AM)
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Me & The Boyz
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#2842474 - 03/17/17 11:28 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: tucktronix]
area51recording Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 1692
Loc: Newburgh,IN
ANY gig for ANY reason that pays crap money but promises "great exposure"....

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#2842475 - 03/17/17 11:31 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Legatoboy]
marczellm Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 737
Loc: Budapest, Hungary
Originally Posted By: Legatoboy

Marczell that's American slang, we use a Spanish word here and there...

You misunderstood me. I wasn't replying directly to you but to the general question of the thread. I didn't even notice the problema.
_________________________
Life is subtractive.
Current: Jazz, funk, rock, pop, Christian worship, BebHop
Wishlist: 80s-ish (synth)pop, symphonic pop, prog rock, fusion, musical theatre
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#2842477 - 03/17/17 11:50 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: marczellm]
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 4236
Loc: Texas
My favorite Red Flag from a new out of state for us club when asking our fee.

"What?!?!? I could get the real Journey for that!!"
Our fee wouldn't even wake up one of the rig drivers for Journey's show wink

I predicted he'd be out of business soon. Sure enough, lasted 11 months. Gone!


Edited by EscapeRocks (03/17/17 11:50 AM)
_________________________
David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Arturia Keylab 61 Black Edition | Mainstage |


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#2842479 - 03/17/17 11:53 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Morizzle]
cphollis Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 1803
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
A space cadet personality.
_________________________
Life is too short to be playing bad music.

Keys: Nord Stage 2, Piano 2, Electro 4D
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#2842481 - 03/17/17 11:55 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Morizzle]
Nadroj Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 891
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Originally Posted By: Morizzle
Piano ties. Treble clef ties. Any music related ties.


Hey...I love my piano tie!
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#2842482 - 03/17/17 11:57 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: cphollis]
Stokely Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1430
Loc: Florida
I'm not sure this was a red flag or a completely-missed opportunity...I answered one ad and talked for a while with the guy. Putting a band together, typical stuff. He then kind of built up to something, saying 'I need to ask you about this': he says "I have a contact that can get regular gigs, not a lot of bands will play these but it's good money."

Where were the gigs? At a couple nudist colonies grin

My first thought was I'd be playing with my Johnson hanging out but he immediately said "the band doesn't play nude."

I might have done it if all the other factors aligned, but nudist colonies aside it wasn't a good fit.

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#2842483 - 03/17/17 11:59 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Morizzle]
El Lobo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/23/14
Posts: 652
Originally Posted By: Morizzle
Piano ties. Treble clef ties. Any music related ties.
Ties.
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#2842488 - 03/17/17 12:38 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: marczellm]
Legatoboy Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 3445
Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
Originally Posted By: marczellm
Originally Posted By: Legatoboy

Marczell that's American slang, we use a Spanish word here and there...

You misunderstood me. I wasn't replying directly to you but to the general question of the thread. I didn't even notice the problema.


like cheers


Edited by Legatoboy (03/17/17 12:40 PM)
_________________________
Where words fail, music speaks volumes

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#2842494 - 03/17/17 01:17 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Stokely]
The Real MC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 4448
Loc: Secluded Tranquil NY Wine Coun...
Originally Posted By: Stokely
I might have done it if all the other factors aligned, but nudist colonies aside it wasn't a good fit.


Not sure if pun was intended, but fine choice of words laugh

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#2842503 - 03/17/17 02:00 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: The Real MC]
Stokely Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1430
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Originally Posted By: Stokely
I might have done it if all the other factors aligned, but nudist colonies aside it wasn't a good fit.


Not sure if pun was intended, but fine choice of words laugh


Unfortunately my best results with humor are always unintended.

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#2842510 - 03/17/17 02:22 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Michael Wright]
The Real MC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 4448
Loc: Secluded Tranquil NY Wine Coun...
Originally Posted By: Michael Wright
Originally Posted By: Morizzle
Piano ties. Treble clef ties. Any music related ties.
Scarves...


I'll have you know that the ladies approve of my piano scarf.

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#2842511 - 03/17/17 02:23 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: The Real MC]
Michael Wright Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/05/12
Posts: 2607
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Originally Posted By: Michael Wright
Originally Posted By: Morizzle
Piano ties. Treble clef ties. Any music related ties.
Scarves...


I'll have you know that the ladies approve of my piano scarf.
thu
_________________________
"being a keyboard player is like wetting yourself in a dark suit. You get a warm feeling, but nobody else notices." A Evett
Website
Mike

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#2842531 - 03/17/17 04:58 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Stokely]
CowboyNQ Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 06/14/15
Posts: 544
Loc: Adelaide, Australia
When it's helpful to be a guitarist...

Originally Posted By: Stokely
My first thought was I'd be playing with my Johnson hanging out...


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#2842535 - 03/17/17 05:27 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Stokely]
cphollis Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 1803
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Originally Posted By: Stokely
I'm not sure this was a red flag or a completely-missed opportunity...I answered one ad and talked for a while with the guy. Putting a band together, typical stuff. He then kind of built up to something, saying 'I need to ask you about this': he says "I have a contact that can get regular gigs, not a lot of bands will play these but it's good money."

Where were the gigs? At a couple nudist colonies grin

My first thought was I'd be playing with my Johnson hanging out but he immediately said "the band doesn't play nude."

I might have done it if all the other factors aligned, but nudist colonies aside it wasn't a good fit.


I would feel inadequate smile
_________________________
Life is too short to be playing bad music.

Keys: Nord Stage 2, Piano 2, Electro 4D
Practice: Yam N3, Bosie 200 Klimt Model
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#2842538 - 03/17/17 06:09 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Stokely]
Michael Wright Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/05/12
Posts: 2607
Originally Posted By: Stokely
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Originally Posted By: Stokely
I might have done it if all the other factors aligned, but nudist colonies aside it wasn't a good fit.


Not sure if pun was intended, but fine choice of words laugh


Unfortunately my best results with humor are always punintended.
_________________________
"being a keyboard player is like wetting yourself in a dark suit. You get a warm feeling, but nobody else notices." A Evett
Website
Mike

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#2842539 - 03/17/17 06:16 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Michael Wright]
El Lobo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/23/14
Posts: 652
I would have happily played a nudist colony ... 20 years ago
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#2842540 - 03/17/17 06:19 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: El Lobo]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 4619
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
I stay away from crazy people. They are easy to identify-walk on the other side of the street or drive in another directions

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#2842552 - 03/17/17 10:50 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: GregC]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
Loc: California
I rarely run into crazy people. In fact, it seems like most people are on the other side of the street, or driving in different directions.





....Oh.
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#2842553 - 03/17/17 11:24 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: cphollis]
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 5244
Loc: Concord,CA,UNITED STATES
Originally Posted By: cphollis
Originally Posted By: Stokely
I might have done it if all the other factors aligned, but nudist colonies aside it wasn't a good fit.


I would feel inadequate smile


You'd hate to bring a 25-key controller if they were expecting a 61-key, and hoping for at least 73-keys...and maybe wishing for 88-key weighted.

rimshot

Or a Yamaha Reface.
_________________________
"I'm not just untalented. I'm multi untalented."

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#2842554 - 03/18/17 12:06 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: timwat]
Barryjam Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 208
Loc: Auburn, Northern CA
It's a poor workman who blames his tools.
_________________________
Barry

Home: Steinway L, Bob Schleicher A100 chop, 142 Leslie.

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#2842555 - 03/18/17 12:13 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Barryjam]
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 5244
Loc: Concord,CA,UNITED STATES
Touche'.
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#2842560 - 03/18/17 03:24 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: CowboyNQ]
marczellm Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 737
Loc: Budapest, Hungary
Originally Posted By: CowboyNQ
When it's helpful to be a guitarist...
Originally Posted By: Stokely
My first thought was I'd be playing with my Johnson hanging out...
I heard a saying that "in heavy metal, the bass has to hang so low the guy can pee over it."
_________________________
Life is subtractive.
Current: Jazz, funk, rock, pop, Christian worship, BebHop
Wishlist: 80s-ish (synth)pop, symphonic pop, prog rock, fusion, musical theatre
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#2842576 - 03/18/17 05:53 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
GregC Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 4619
Loc: Discovery Bay, California
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
I rarely run into crazy people. In fact, it seems like most people are on the other side of the street, or driving in different directions.


....Oh.


I get it. Live in the same state wink


Edited by GregC (03/18/17 05:53 AM)

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#2842604 - 03/18/17 09:40 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Barryjam]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Barryjam
It's a poor workman who blames his tools.


Fixed.
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#2842612 - 03/18/17 10:01 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
Pete the bean Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 43
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
Originally Posted By: Barryjam
It's a poor workman who blames his tools.


Fixed.

That seemed easy. Are you a plastic surgeon?
_________________________
Yamaha CP1 UHL X3-2 QSC K10's

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#2842617 - 03/18/17 10:07 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: marczellm]
PianoMan51 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 810
Loc: SE NC marsh
Originally Posted By: marczellm
Originally Posted By: CowboyNQ
When it's helpful to be a guitarist...
Originally Posted By: Stokely
My first thought was I'd be playing with my Johnson hanging out...
I heard a saying that "in heavy metal, the bass has to hang so low the guy can pee over it."

After all these years I finally understand why there is a big 'dip' between the upper and lower bouts.

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#2842623 - 03/18/17 10:22 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Pete the bean]
Barryjam Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 208
Loc: Auburn, Northern CA
Originally Posted By: Pete the bean
[quote=MathOfInsects][quote=Barryjam]It's a poor workman who blames his tools.


But it is plural for me: I have upper and lower tools. I do worry sometimes that my performance might suffer because my tools are supported by an X-stand that might go down in the middle of performance. But I also get nervous when the lower tool remains stable for a over 4 hour gig, and I'm prompted to seek immediate medical attention.

(I promise: that is the last one) (I think).
_________________________
Barry

Home: Steinway L, Bob Schleicher A100 chop, 142 Leslie.

Gigs: Yamaha CP4, Nord Electro 4D 61, Ventilator II. Sound System: A&H QUsb mixer, Crown & QSC amps, JBL SRX-700 speakers

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#2842633 - 03/18/17 10:50 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Pete the bean]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Pete the bean
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
Originally Posted By: Barryjam
It's a poor workman who blames his tools.


Fixed.

That seemed easy. Are you a plastic surgeon?


Veterinarian.
_________________________
"

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#2842640 - 03/18/17 11:18 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
Pete the bean Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 43
Loc: Canada
Upper and Lower tools. This is starting to sound very interesting.
_________________________
Yamaha CP1 UHL X3-2 QSC K10's

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#2842715 - 03/18/17 06:11 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Pete the bean]
TommyS Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 500
Loc: SoCal
Had a singer tell me he wanted the keyboard parts to " zing then zang ".

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#2842776 - 03/18/17 09:45 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: TommyS]
David Loving Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 12/11/00
Posts: 4874
Loc: Texas
I have a singer that will ask what key the song is in.
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#2842807 - 03/19/17 05:59 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
Legatoboy Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 3445
Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
After thinking about this some more....my red flags are people who spend a little to much time looking for mine! I think a after baking this around for a few days I've come to a greater understanding of how I feel about the topic...
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#2842811 - 03/19/17 06:40 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Legatoboy]
Moonglow Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/15/03
Posts: 4379
Loc: Northwest Indiana
This thread has been a fun read. A lot of relatable things here, but of course there can be exceptions to some of the red flags mentioned. For example, I've been playing with a successful band for many years that involves a husband/wife situation.

It's been said that the most reliable predictor of future behavior is past behavior, so I try to focus on the "hard data." If a band has not played out much over the past two years, it probably will continue to not play out. If a musician has bounced around from band to band, he/she will probably continue to bounce around. If a band has burned through a lot of keyboard players, they probably will continue to have a hard time hanging on to keyboard players. But these things are not as much fun to discuss. Carry on!
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#2842813 - 03/19/17 06:45 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Moonglow]
Joe Muscara Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
10k Club

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 18790
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Getting to "rehearsal" and band leader says, "what songs do you guys want to do?" after he sent out a list prior to the get together. Then he picks a tune not on the list. Then we spend two hours playing four to six different songs. That have three chords. And are blues.

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#2842816 - 03/19/17 06:56 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Joe Muscara]
Dr88s Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 1014
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Not a criticism; just an observation:

Most of the red flags here would apply to a gigging keyboardist looking to make or supplement a living with gigs; I'd guess by the responses that would describe many/most of you.

I'm very happy in my band. We only play out once a year but enjoy the challenge of working on a variety of styles for the musicianship. Everyone is respectful to each other, does his or her homework, and tries their best. It suits my needs just fine. And yes, the singer is married to someone in the band - me!

My red flags would me more those that indicate a lack of respect or unreasonable expectations towards others.
_________________________
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#2842852 - 03/19/17 10:24 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Dr88s]
Joe Muscara Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
10k Club

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 18790
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Originally Posted By: Dr88s
Not a criticism; just an observation:

Most of the red flags here would apply to a gigging keyboardist looking to make or supplement a living with gigs; I'd guess by the responses that would describe many/most of you.

I'm very happy in my band. We only play out once a year but enjoy the challenge of working on a variety of styles for the musicianship. Everyone is respectful to each other, does his or her homework, and tries their best. It suits my needs just fine. And yes, the singer is married to someone in the band - me!

My red flags would me more those that indicate a lack of respect or unreasonable expectations towards others.
Sure. I actually do not have a problem with a band that just wants to get together to play for fun. But even if that's all a band does, I'd want to progress in that environment somehow, whether that's new songs or something else. Everyone should be in agreement about what the band does. If they all want to play out once every few weeks, months, or once a year, great. But don't tell me you want to be gigging and never do it. Don't get together for a two hour jam and play maybe half a dozen songs. At least, that's not what I want to do when I go to jam. I'm there to *play,* not to sit around and BS, wait for someone to set up or get gear working, or work on arrangements like we're getting ready for a gig that doesn't exist.

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#2842859 - 03/19/17 11:18 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Joe Muscara]
Legatoboy Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 3445
Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
I meant it only in terms of this topic BTW. I realize they way I sounded in my last post could have been misheard.

I only play with friends now or people I trust using a more diverse set of value gauges to determine the projects I will get involved with and Hallelujah for that.

Pro or semi/pro years look funny to you from that perspective.
I consider myself at 62 extremely fortunate I was able to play regularly, keep a day gig and actively study music into later life and kudos to my wife for understanding me and all of it. I'm very careful with that....so now I'm a bit more delicate with myself, my ambition and my choices. I haven't had to many Red Flag issue days in about 2 years after a few bad experiences and a few successful choices.

I had to play to make ends meet through a few years back in the way back so I understand both sides to some degree....boy is that a great way to live if your up to it or what. I want to retire and grab as much of the full time musical life as I can because it's simply the healthiest way to live in so many practical ways.



Edited by Legatoboy (03/19/17 11:29 AM)
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#2842862 - 03/19/17 11:53 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Legatoboy]
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 4236
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
I meant it only in terms of this topic BTW. I realize they way I sounded in my last post could have been misheard.

I only play with friends now or people I trust using a more diverse set of value gauges to determine the projects I will get involved with and Hallelujah for that.

Pro or semi/pro years look funny to you from that perspective.
I consider myself at 62 extremely fortunate I was able to play regularly, keep a day gig and actively study music into later life and kudos to my wife for understanding me and all of it. I'm very careful with that....so now I'm a bit more delicate with myself, my ambition and my choices. I haven't had to many Red Flag issue days in about 2 years after a few bad experiences and a few successful choices.

I had to play to make ends meet through a few years back in the way back so I understand both sides to some degree....boy is that a great way to live if your up to it or what. I want to retire and grab as much of the full time musical life as I can because it's simply the healthiest way to live in so many practical ways.



like
_________________________
David
Gig Rig: Casio PX-5S | Arturia Keylab 61 Black Edition | Mainstage |


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#2843022 - 03/20/17 07:38 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: El Lobo]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5608
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: El Lobo
Originally Posted By: RobP2
"we expect 110% commitment and for you not to be involved in any other music projects."
This would be fine, assuming it means they have 2-3 gigs a week lined up for the next 6 months of the gig calendar or are preparing for a tour that's already booked. But this kind of thing is usually said by a band that's just getting together, has no gigs, and hasn't rehearsed yet or even settled on who the members are.


That's not always bad. I don't require 100% dedication but I don't use subs because the end product suffers. There is a ton of gig whores out there that always have one foot in and one foot out of the door. No thanks it always ends up in a conflict and they leave.
_________________________
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#2843042 - 03/20/17 08:35 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Joe Muscara]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Originally Posted By: Dr88s
Not a criticism; just an observation:

Most of the red flags here would apply to a gigging keyboardist looking to make or supplement a living with gigs; I'd guess by the responses that would describe many/most of you.

I'm very happy in my band. We only play out once a year but enjoy the challenge of working on a variety of styles for the musicianship. Everyone is respectful to each other, does his or her homework, and tries their best. It suits my needs just fine. And yes, the singer is married to someone in the band - me!

My red flags would me more those that indicate a lack of respect or unreasonable expectations towards others.
Sure. I actually do not have a problem with a band that just wants to get together to play for fun. But even if that's all a band does, I'd want to progress in that environment somehow, whether that's new songs or something else. Everyone should be in agreement about what the band does. If they all want to play out once every few weeks, months, or once a year, great. But don't tell me you want to be gigging and never do it. Don't get together for a two hour jam and play maybe half a dozen songs. At least, that's not what I want to do when I go to jam. I'm there to *play,* not to sit around and BS, wait for someone to set up or get gear working, or work on arrangements like we're getting ready for a gig that doesn't exist.


I usually keep one "passion project" in the mix, but it's always a performing entity. If I have one night free a week to sit around and jam tunes in a noodle factory, then that means I have one night a week NOT to do that. The latter is way more attractive to me. So for me a "passion project" is the one where if they say, "I have this big gig coming up and I want to blow their pants off with a full band, but can't pay your rate for this one. Would you still do it?" my answer is probably going to be yes.

Meanwhile, not for nothing, but may I just say that February and March have been excruciatingly slow. I went from four gigs a week to four gigs a month for the last two months. I am panicking and feeling old and forgotten.
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#2843122 - 03/20/17 12:49 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
SkiGuy777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/19/17
Posts: 126
The Craigslist ads, this even goes back to the rag paper days.

Ads that ask for "Pro" and "Committed" that have no web site, no videos, no set list, but ask for the entire band. "Looking for Bass, Guitar, Keyboards, Drums, and Horns." Oh, in other words, the entire band.

Actually had a bunch of posts in the Craigslist forum about the "committed" part and the musicians said the best or "pros" will band hop (fill in) and it's better for everyone when that happens.

Ads that state rehearsals will be at a pay for studio. The problem here is you're paying to rehearse, and by the time you get everything set up (mic and instrument levels), there's only about 1.5 hours of a 2 hour block, with the next band coming in. It may be quick for a little 3 piece to set up, but anything more takes 30 minutes.

Actually, a good way to find gigs is to seek out similar bands you're playing in, go see them, and say you can be the back up. I still scan the CL ads just in case, but it's 99% noise. Like finding a needle in a haystack. I realize it's good to leave the least info possible, but if there's no name, video, and it says pay studio, I move on.


Edited by SkiGuy777 (03/20/17 12:51 PM)
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#2843129 - 03/20/17 01:26 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
richforman Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1047
Loc: Long Island, NY
Piano ties are like keytars.....fellow musicians and keyboard players say they're the worst, laughably cheesy, but the barflies in the crowd seem to have no problem with them at all, I still wear a skinny keyboard tie for some of my dance band gigs and always get compliments on it!
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#2843329 - 03/21/17 02:38 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Outkaster]
RobP2 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 137
Loc: Bedford, UK
Originally Posted By: Outkaster


That's not always bad. I don't require 100% dedication but I don't use subs because the end product suffers. There is a ton of gig whores out there that always have one foot in and one foot out of the door. No thanks it always ends up in a conflict and they leave.


A term like "gig whores" would be a red flag for me. Maybe it ends "in conflict" because you call them that?
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#2843337 - 03/21/17 04:29 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: richforman]
DanL Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 3871
Loc: DE
Originally Posted By: richforman
Piano ties are like keytars.....fellow musicians and keyboard players say they're the worst, laughably cheesy, but the barflies in the crowd seem to have no problem with them at all, I still wear a skinny keyboard tie for some of my dance band gigs and always get compliments on it!


My wife bought me a pair of those Chuck Taylor knockoffs that have a piano keyboard on them. They are a fun conversation piece.
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#2843346 - 03/21/17 05:37 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: RobP2]
tucktronix Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: RobP2
Originally Posted By: Outkaster


That's not always bad. I don't require 100% dedication but I don't use subs because the end product suffers. There is a ton of gig whores out there that always have one foot in and one foot out of the door. No thanks it always ends up in a conflict and they leave.


A term like "gig whores" would be a red flag for me. Maybe it ends "in conflict" because you call them that?


Umm.. most likely not. "Gig whore" is a term of endearment for some folks. As a matter of fact, I often refer to myself as one.
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#2843366 - 03/21/17 06:48 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: RobP2]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5608
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: RobP2
Originally Posted By: Outkaster


That's not always bad. I don't require 100% dedication but I don't use subs because the end product suffers. There is a ton of gig whores out there that always have one foot in and one foot out of the door. No thanks it always ends up in a conflict and they leave.


A term like "gig whores" would be a red flag for me. Maybe it ends "in conflict" because you call them that?


Listen I had two guys that were like this. I don't say it to their face but both of those guys are gone because they were always looking for something better...now both of them don't have anything because they can't keep a band together or aren't disciplined enough in other ways. That's why it ends in "conflict" They both are no longer in a situation that was making them a little bit of money and had a good following so that is on them....they lost out. Nothing is wrong with playing in multiple groups it just makes it harder for a band to book around that, especially if it's a niche music.

That's why I don't use subs, unless there was some kind of emergency that can't be avoided (It happened only once in 2013 but I have been lucky since then) Case in point 8 years ago I was playing with a well known regional soul band and the singer was not able to make it so someone else did the leads and a lot of the crowd left. The singer was playing on the side with someone else and thought no one would find out. The owner of the club didn't want to pay us because he didn't get the product he hired. This is an owner that bent over backwards everytime we played his club and was very reasonable with food and drinks. I didn't blame him, thank god it worked out but I try to avoid that stuff. For the record I don't sub when it undermines my own group, why would I sideline my own project? I have seen musicians do that, its what I mean when I say one foot in and one out the door. Nothing is wrong with looking for something better but sometimes the grass is not greener on the other side all the time.


Edited by Outkaster (03/21/17 06:54 AM)
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#2843396 - 03/21/17 08:16 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Outkaster]
SkiGuy777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/19/17
Posts: 126
I don't band hop because I'm tired of learning 50 classic rock tunes I no longer care about, that usually involve 2 or 3 patches per song. Reading them on the fly from a chart is not my thing either, I have to practice and have the parts as muscle memory.

The current horn band I play with as a back up has 120 tunes, I have 70 of them I'm comfortable with. Then there's the 3DN tribute with members of the same group, so that's another 40 to learn.

That's the other joke about CL, is the ads saying someone can fill in. Yeah, if you come out, video tape the band, then spend 3 months learning the material. That's exactly what I did to get into the current group. It's easy to sub for horn players because they read charts. But anyone else, a backup player like me would be needed who is ok with filling in every now and then. I'm OK with playing a few times a year and getting a video out of it.


Edited by SkiGuy777 (03/21/17 08:20 AM)
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#2843403 - 03/21/17 08:31 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: SkiGuy777]
J. Dan Offline
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Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 10812
Loc: St. Louis, MO
If you're going to have somebody sub, you just have to get talented subs and it doesn't hurt the band.

The one I sub with from time to time subs every position regularly, including the lead singer, and they are going as strong as ever. They get some of the best players in town, and rather than try to hide it, they highlight it and spotlight the "special guest". I once played an outdoor concert with them where the only regular band member was the singer, and the rest of us had never played together before, except I had done a couple gigs with the bass player before. Nobody knew we hadn't played together before. On this occasion it was because they got double booked and the casino wouldn't let them out of the gig, so they did the casino with another singer and the rest of us played the concert with the regular singer. At the end of the show, somebody came up and said "are you guys playing at the casino tonight?" I said "yes, if you hurry up you may catch the end of our last set".

Anyway, the venues expect it and it's fine because they always get a great show. The guys who fill in are all pro players and show up prepared. I enjoy it because I've gotten to play with a lot of the guys around town that I've heard of or seen, but was never in a band with.

It's good for the regular band members because they don't have to get burned out playing every single weekend. If they need a night off, just take it and somebody will fill in. The regular keyboard player just bought an RV and is wanting some time off. Can't say I blame him. Better to keep your regular players and have them be happy and have their sanity than get everybody burned out and at each others throats, or cut back the gigs to where half the band is unhappy, etc.
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#2843407 - 03/21/17 08:37 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Joe Muscara]
PianoMan51 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 810
Loc: SE NC marsh
Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Getting to "rehearsal" and band leader says, "what songs do you guys want to do?" after he sent out a list prior to the get together. Then he picks a tune not on the list. Then we spend two hours playing four to six different songs. That have three chords. And are blues.

That happened to you too?

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#2843411 - 03/21/17 08:48 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: PianoMan51]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
Loc: California
In fact, "no hired guns!" (i.e., gig whores) is a red flag for me. Hopefully it's a band full of hired guns. If you're playing great shows every night and making house-downpayment money, sure, I can pull back other stuff a bit, but then...it's even more likely that folks will need subs sometimes (i.e., hired guns).
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#2843420 - 03/21/17 09:26 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: J. Dan]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5608
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
If you're going to have somebody sub, you just have to get talented subs and it doesn't hurt the band.

The one I sub with from time to time subs every position regularly, including the lead singer, and they are going as strong as ever. They get some of the best players in town, and rather than try to hide it, they highlight it and spotlight the "special guest". I once played an outdoor concert with them where the only regular band member was the singer, and the rest of us had never played together before, except I had done a couple gigs with the bass player before. Nobody knew we hadn't played together before. On this occasion it was because they got double booked and the casino wouldn't let them out of the gig, so they did the casino with another singer and the rest of us played the concert with the regular singer. At the end of the show, somebody came up and said "are you guys playing at the casino tonight?" I said "yes, if you hurry up you may catch the end of our last set".

Anyway, the venues expect it and it's fine because they always get a great show. The guys who fill in are all pro players and show up prepared. I enjoy it because I've gotten to play with a lot of the guys around town that I've heard of or seen, but was never in a band with.

It's good for the regular band members because they don't have to get burned out playing every single weekend. If they need a night off, just take it and somebody will fill in. The regular keyboard player just bought an RV and is wanting some time off. Can't say I blame him. Better to keep your regular players and have them be happy and have their sanity than get everybody burned out and at each others throats, or cut back the gigs to where half the band is unhappy, etc.


Dan pro players don't make the best bands, in fact it can be boring but that is whole other topic. Unless someone knows the music we are making they just can't sit in. You have to know what's going on. You can get away with certain things in blues and rock, cultural music not so much. We don't play that much for people to be that burned out, it's not every weekend either. i am interested in getting the best possible product I can get within reason. I am sensitive to the other guys in the band. If someone wants time off I try to book around them or to know up front so we can work with their schedule. Bands full of subs I don't get.
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#2843471 - 03/21/17 01:05 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: cphollis]
Pat Azzarello Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 895
Loc: WA,UNITED STATES
Can't help jumping in - so entertaining and SO true.

1. "We're professionals, we'll get it right at the gig (after never having gotten it right in rehearsal)"

2. Around charts and notation
a. Band member: We have charts.
Me: Cool. Can I get a copy.
Band Member: Sure, I'll send you a link.
Link arrives to bad guitar tab page

b. Quality/accuracy of charts
Band member: The bass player wrote the charts.
Me: Great. Does he/she play other instruments?
Band member: No, but he/she used to play drums.
Charts arrive - it's just the bass notes in a word doc.

3. Trying to be "helpful"
a. Gee, that patch sounds buzzy in my in-ears.
b. Can I come by and help you mix the recording from the live set? I've never done it before and I want to learn. (translation: Gee, I want to make certain that her instrument is louder and better sounding than anyone's at the cost of my time).


4. Quality of craftsmanship/professionalism
Yeah, well Joey learned it wrong and it was better to just have us match what he was doing than do it the right way. (Explains Penderecki style harmonies).

Well, (enter name of marginal talent) does this for a living, so they know what they're doing.

And my all time favorite:
Band Member: "Oh, I just learn the songs off YouTube"
Me: Oh. I usually buy the tunes (Inner Voice: It's the least I can do since I'm making money playing someone else's material).
Band Member: Oh - they're rich enough, and we don't get paid well enough to actually buy the music we cover.

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#2843472 - 03/21/17 01:05 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Outkaster]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Dan pro players don't make the best bands, in fact it can be boring but that is whole other topic. Unless someone knows the music we are making they just can't sit in. You have to know what's going on. You can get away with certain things in blues and rock, cultural music not so much. We don't play that much for people to be that burned out, it's not every weekend either. i am interested in getting the best possible product I can get within reason. I am sensitive to the other guys in the band. If someone wants time off I try to book around them or to know up front so we can work with their schedule. Bands full of subs I don't get.


It's interesting how different these perspectives can be. I play in a couple of projects where the four or five members are "the band," and they won't book anything we can't all do. I personally keep wishing they would sub me or another member out. The more the band plays, the better for all of us. And the more subs they use, the better the subs get--and the better the subs get, the more band can play, which brings us back to the top. smile
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#2843478 - 03/21/17 01:37 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Pat Azzarello]
wineandkeyz Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 547
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Pat Azzarello
And my all time favorite:
Band Member: "Oh, I just learn the songs off YouTube"
Me: Oh. I usually buy the tunes...


And then you get to rehearsal and found out that every "Band Member" learned a different version of the song because, for some reason, they just didn't want to click the video for the most well-known version -- the one that you bought and that everybody in the known universe is familiar with.
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#2843499 - 03/21/17 02:52 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: wineandkeyz]
Joe Muscara Offline
Triple Secret Banninated
10k Club

Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 18790
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Originally Posted By: wineandkeyz
Originally Posted By: Pat Azzarello
And my all time favorite:
Band Member: "Oh, I just learn the songs off YouTube"
Me: Oh. I usually buy the tunes...


And then you get to rehearsal and found out that every "Band Member" learned a different version of the song because, for some reason, they just didn't want to click the video for the most well-known version -- the one that you bought and that everybody in the known universe is familiar with.
I was going to say something similar. They say they'll send you the songs, then all they do is send the *list* of songs, and when you ask for the songs, they say they're on YT. So you check YT, and you're not even clear which versions they're talking about, especially if they don't get the song titles right.

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#2843504 - 03/21/17 03:05 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
stoken6 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 1447
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
I play in a couple of projects where the four or five members are "the band," and they won't book anything we can't all do. I personally keep wishing they would sub me or another member out.


This. It's the reason you should only join bands whose standard means the gig pay can fund subs if required. I would be annoyed if one member's unavailability meant we had to turn down a gig. I get that people have other commitments - that's where subs come in.

Cheers, Mike.
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#2843575 - 03/22/17 03:12 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Outkaster]
RobP2 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 137
Loc: Bedford, UK
Originally Posted By: Outkaster


Dan pro players don't make the best bands, in fact it can be boring but that is whole other topic. Unless someone knows the music we are making they just can't sit in. You have to know what's going on. You can get away with certain things in blues and rock, cultural music not so much. We don't play that much for people to be that burned out, it's not every weekend either. i am interested in getting the best possible product I can get within reason. I am sensitive to the other guys in the band. If someone wants time off I try to book around them or to know up front so we can work with their schedule. Bands full of subs I don't get.


Well if you are playing original material there is an issue, of course, but that's what rehearsals are for. I've depped, sat in on sessions and played full time for various reggae bands, covers and originals. That was working with pro players down to weekenders.

I agree in that I would be far less likely to dep someone in to my originals bands, as they would need to know the set. But I have done it a couple of times, once when a guitarist let us down five days before a major gig. We had a guy come in one one rehearsal and he saved the day for us - but he was a pro player. So emergency situations - maybe.

My red flag is more to do with bands who say they want "110% commitment" when they are playing six covers gigs a year and the set includes Summer of 69, Sex on Fire, etc.

I played two dep gigs recently with sets like that, no rehearsals required, most of the guys knew each other and had played together before - two gigs, two satisfied club owners. Chord charts were sent out the week before - if people can't cope with that kind of playing, maybe they shouldn't be out playing for money?

So, each to their own. If playing music forms a substantial part of income, then sure, people will look for decent paid work. That may also, as it does in my case, subsidise original projects, which is where my heart is at. If playing is a weekend hobby, then fine, but don't necessarily expect high level players to sign up. If your sole aim is one band and you can afford to run it off your day job - then great.

I do get the commitment thing in some respects - depending on the type of band and the gig diary. But the biggest problem I have, in terms of booking dates and rehearsals,is not from pros but from the guys who "can't do that date cos I'm going shopping with my wife" or the guys who have four holidays a year, or who "always go fishing on a Sunday" etc etc. Now we all have lives and families, fair enough, but why join a full time band? Which is one reason I prefer working with pros I guess, or at least people with a pro attitude - they seem to be able to manage diaries much better




Edited by RobP2 (03/22/17 03:14 AM)
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#2843596 - 03/22/17 06:12 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: RobP2]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5608
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: RobP2
Originally Posted By: Outkaster


Dan pro players don't make the best bands, in fact it can be boring but that is whole other topic. Unless someone knows the music we are making they just can't sit in. You have to know what's going on. You can get away with certain things in blues and rock, cultural music not so much. We don't play that much for people to be that burned out, it's not every weekend either. i am interested in getting the best possible product I can get within reason. I am sensitive to the other guys in the band. If someone wants time off I try to book around them or to know up front so we can work with their schedule. Bands full of subs I don't get.


Well if you are playing original material there is an issue, of course, but that's what rehearsals are for. I've depped, sat in on sessions and played full time for various reggae bands, covers and originals. That was working with pro players down to weekenders.

I agree in that I would be far less likely to dep someone in to my originals bands, as they would need to know the set. But I have done it a couple of times, once when a guitarist let us down five days before a major gig. We had a guy come in one one rehearsal and he saved the day for us - but he was a pro player. So emergency situations - maybe.

My red flag is more to do with bands who say they want "110% commitment" when they are playing six covers gigs a year and the set includes Summer of 69, Sex on Fire, etc.

I played two dep gigs recently with sets like that, no rehearsals required, most of the guys knew each other and had played together before - two gigs, two satisfied club owners. Chord charts were sent out the week before - if people can't cope with that kind of playing, maybe they shouldn't be out playing for money?

So, each to their own. If playing music forms a substantial part of income, then sure, people will look for decent paid work. That may also, as it does in my case, subsidise original projects, which is where my heart is at. If playing is a weekend hobby, then fine, but don't necessarily expect high level players to sign up. If your sole aim is one band and you can afford to run it off your day job - then great.

I do get the commitment thing in some respects - depending on the type of band and the gig diary. But the biggest problem I have, in terms of booking dates and rehearsals,is not from pros but from the guys who "can't do that date cos I'm going shopping with my wife" or the guys who have four holidays a year, or who "always go fishing on a Sunday" etc etc. Now we all have lives and families, fair enough, but why join a full time band? Which is one reason I prefer working with pros I guess, or at least people with a pro attitude - they seem to be able to manage diaries much better




Rob I agree with what you are saying here and it's pretty much the same thing with me. I realize it's a hobby for a lot of people but I don't think anything is wrong with sounding good or acting pro. We do have a couple of CD's of originals so it is pretty specific. We all have lives, kids, commitments as we get older so I try to put that in perspective for certain members. I am lucky that it works as well as it does.
_________________________
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#2843603 - 03/22/17 06:36 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: richforman]
MotiDave Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/04/12
Posts: 1444
Loc: San Diego, CA USA
Originally Posted By: richforman
Piano ties are like keytars.....fellow musicians and keyboard players say they're the worst, laughably cheesy, but the barflies in the crowd seem to have no problem with them at all, I still wear a skinny keyboard tie for some of my dance band gigs and always get compliments on it!
_________________________
Local: One Motif XF7, One ELX112P, and ONE KICKASS X-STAND
Fly-ins: MOXF6 and a couple pedals
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#2843606 - 03/22/17 06:49 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MotiDave]
misterdregs Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 11/13/03
Posts: 1822
Great thread. I've seen several of these: the two guitar band that rehearsed at full volume in a low-ceilinged basement (gotta get that "tone"), the girl singer who failed to mention that her songs were in different keys, etc.

Just recently, rhythm guitarist wants to veto a tune because "only one guitar and no keys". I'm puzzled because I heard two guitars going the whole time and a very prominent piano part. "Oh, I was listening to a stripped down live version."

As far as using YouTube for learning tunes, if it's an official version from the artist and they are monetizing it with ad revenue I have no problem not buying the song.
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#2843613 - 03/22/17 07:23 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: wineandkeyz]
DanL Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 3871
Loc: DE
Originally Posted By: wineandkeyz
Originally Posted By: Pat Azzarello
And my all time favorite:
Band Member: "Oh, I just learn the songs off YouTube"
Me: Oh. I usually buy the tunes...


And then you get to rehearsal and found out that every "Band Member" learned a different version of the song because, for some reason, they just didn't want to click the video for the most well-known version -- the one that you bought and that everybody in the known universe is familiar with.


that's just poor communication. We use YouTube to learn a lot of stuff in our party band. I'm not buying those songs because it's not stuff I listen to outside of the band. I send out an email with the rehearsal agenda and send them a link to the version we're doing. Easy.
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#2843618 - 03/22/17 07:43 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Stokely]
vonnor Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 635
Loc: Centreville, VA USA
Originally Posted By: Stokely
My favorite overall red flag is something I call the "Angry Craigslist Band ad".

Thankfully I'm not looking these days, but there was a time...

first sign of this is a giant long bunch of text. Ok, let's read it.
These ads start off nice, and might even get you interested based on the type of music etc.

Then the anger starts to build as the ad writer starts in on the things they *don't* want.
"Please don't think about joining this band if you can't show up on time."

The longer the ad goes, the angrier it gets, and more details start creeping in:
"If you have a crazy girlfriend who is going to yell at the band because she doesn't see you enough, you're not man enough to be in this band."

I know what causes this, because I've been on the other side: endless auditions causing the band to never leave the ground. But ad dude: keep it short, keep it positive, and don't scare away people!

Hey, at least I took the time to read this entire thread to see if anybody had mentioned this already. roll
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#2843620 - 03/22/17 07:46 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: RobP2]
stoken6 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 1447
Originally Posted By: RobP2
I prefer working with pros I guess, or at least people with a pro attitude


"Professional" is an attitude - I like it!

Cheers, Mike.
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#2843699 - 03/22/17 02:06 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: stoken6]
lerber3 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/28/05
Posts: 491
Loc: Vancouver, Canada
LOL.. the 3rd Vancouve Craigslist musician ad seems like a perfect ANGRY CRAIGSLIST AD... enjoy.

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Producer looking for Artists/Bands who aren't self-serving, narcissistic, egomaniac pricks.

Easier said than done.

If you're looking for a producer/engineer/studio owner who is always going to tell you what you want to hear, tell you that everything you do is "great!", just for the sake of getting your money and getting you in and out as quickly as possible like a f#%$ing McD!cks drive-thru... Hit the back button on your browser.

If you haven't noticed, there isn't expendable financial resources in this industry anymore, and therefore, there are no managers scurrying to suck on your teat - You have to self-manage and develop yourself before someone sees value and is willing to invest in you.. otherwise anyone who is helping you likely is doing so just to nickel and dime your ass (likely still the case after you develop value in yourself, then dollar and bill)

Don't tell me you have no f%@#ing money to pay me when I can go look on your Facebook or Instagram feed and see all the cool shows you're going to and cool sh!t you're doing, all the booze you're drinking, the three vacations you're taking every year, the new hip custom everything $3000 1-speed bicycle you just bought.

Also don't tell me you want me to make you a record that is going to get you into big festivals in front of thousands of people, a review in Pitchfork, placement in film and TV, A profitable North American tour before you go tour Europe, a record deal, radio play, chartered flights, groupies, a pizza sponsorship... and then not want to acknowledge a SINGLE F%$&ING THING I HAVE TO SAY. Don`t say you are open to input just to make yourself feel like an open minded collaborative professional, and then shrivel up like a prune and sabotage the energy in the room as soon as input is given.

Understand what a f*%&ing producer does before you hire one. A producer isn't a dude/chick with a beatpad and FruityLoops - that's a musician/programmer/songwriter. A producer is someone who is hired to manage a project budget and the projects logistical parameters - as boring and cubical-esque as this sounds, it plays a huge creative role in a project and can have great impact on the quality of the artwork being... wait for it... produced.

Some producers, also happen to have musical skills (and engineering skills) that can be utilized. Those skills could have been developed through theory and study, or the producer may just have a naturally good ear and sense of song and vibe and that later producer, may not even be able to play a musical instrument, they may just chill on the couch and comment on what they think works and doesn't, they might walk in the studio for only 40 minutes and then leave - there are producers like this who could have a throne smelted out of gold records.

If you are/want to be hiring a producer whom you also want to contribute musical/performance input and or writing, that needs to be established before you hire them. If you hire any producer only based on how famous they are or, if they have a local buzz, or even just because they've made some moderately successful records in the past that you like, there's a good chance you're not going to end up with a record you like or a record that does well regardless of how much money you paid them - so don't be fooled into paying someones mortgage/baby diapers/Rolex's. And you will have deserved to have wasted your money because you sought a producer based on something as shallow as fame or ``cred``.

You want to hire a producer based on energy, almost as if there is an unsaid intent that seems to be resonating with everyone in the room. There needs to be an understanding of what is to be achieved and there can`t be any bullshit between the people in the room and vision that is trying to be reached and brought to a tangible form, whether that is an experimental art record that will be so weird it might not have wide commercial success but be an amazing experience for those who manage to come across it, or if it`s a record in which there is an objective to create something that has enough of a trajectory that it creates some waves in the world.

You may be thinking, "oh, well, this dude sounds like a hypocritical whiny asshole egomaniac himself", and you might even try and type some witty CraigsList 'RE:'... But this isn't whining, I'm just concluding that %98 of you reading this are the exact same people I'm describing and I DON'T WANT TO F%&@ING WORK WITH YOU, OR 'RE:' YOU, OR EVEN HAVE YOU IN MY STUDIO FOR A TOUR - YOUR ATTITUDE IS TOXIC - MORE SO THAN THIS EXCESIVELY BLATANT ASSHOLE OF A CRAIGSLIST AD I'VE POSTED.

We are all self-serving, have an ego, etc - we are all the lead in our own story.. but I think some of us realize if we serve the song/music, then we are serving each other and if we are serving each other we are in effect serving ourselves, but in a way that all involved have a sense of togetherness and fulfillment - we are all in this together and we`re all spinning in the same direction after all!

Any profit I make on top of paying my bills and creating a moderate humble life for myself, (which I'm not even remotely close to doing because some of you f%#kwads have been d!ck!ng me around so much) I want to give to charity and social projects - getting food to starving children, world peace and pluralism, first nations rights, homelessness, environmentalism... so by d!ck!ng me around and costing me money you are essentially killing little babies and destroying the planet.

I pretty much exist through making music, because all my time goes into making music. Being a producer is a time intensive job. Being a producer/engineer/studio owner/musician/programmer/etc is insane. Us studio rats are therefor fairly sensitive about time - we don't like our time being wasted. If you are wasting my time, you are taking time away from me spending it with my family, friends, people I care about, and just personal time to do what I want to do.. This job already does that, and these important people in my life aren`t going to be around forever.
---
A bit about myself. I am thoroughly interested in all genres of music but am especially fond of Jazz, "alternative" rock, live off the floor rock or any live music, instrumental, ambient, punk, and anything weird and experimental - I like darkness. I do have the mind required to make "Pop" music, but I don't enjoy it as much, so you'll have to pay me extra (there's usually extra anal retentive work involved anyway) You don`t really make pop music anyways, you either end up making something that becomes popular or you don`t. I have a very open work style, I don`t work any one way, I adjust and tackle each project differently. I don`t have a format, I don`t cookie cut, and I don`t like over involving myself in a project just to make myself feel involved -- if all I have to do is set up mics and hit record and that`s what best serves the project, great! I like experimenting in the studio, getting interesting sounds, coming up with interesting starting points to generate new material. Project integrity and quality is important to me, I`m usually fronting a band more value in studio time than what they are paying me (this is because they need more time allotted for themselves to reach the quality of project they intended to or that is necessary) -- this would be like a record label fronting you the cost of recording as part of your contract. If we have made a project agreement to work this way, then we need to be reaching a high expectation of quality with the work we are doing and not calling it quits until we all feel like we have all achieved something great -- myself included. Ie, I didn`t front all that time (both studio and my time) to end up settling for demo quality that no one is going to care about. I fronted that time with an expectation that we are going to create a record that is through and through outstanding and is going to do all of us involved good, not only in the sense of personal accomplishment, but in advancing our careers and portfolios (get you touring, into film/TV, etc) and who knows, maybe even making some money. I don`t like working on the clock as the clock can limit experimentation and the level of depth and detail we can delve into, it can take a fair amount of time to really enter the depths and atmosphere of a project and tap into it`s full potential. I am also a musician, songwriter, and engineer/mixer. I have some classical training on cello, but mostly play guitar, program synths, and sing - I do a bit of everything (keys, drums, percussion, sound design, etc).

If I seem like the kind of asshole you want working for your artwork, please get a hold of me. I need good, solid, honest artwork and people to produce. I typically ask for a flat rate/budget, and for people to save up their money if they can`t do that.

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#2843700 - 03/22/17 02:12 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: lerber3]
timwat Offline
Quite wealthy...spiritually
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/01
Posts: 5244
Loc: Concord,CA,UNITED STATES
I feel badly for the producer behind that screed.

He/she will end up being contacted by the kind of person who will find that treatise enlightening rather than off-putting.

I believe creatives produce their best work when working with people they're comfortable being around. At the same time, if said author has an unquestionable body of impeccable work that precedes him/her, well...maybe that's enough to carry the day.

Still...yikes.
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#2843708 - 03/22/17 02:32 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: timwat]
Wastrel Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/13/09
Posts: 2298
Loc: Los Angeles
Who could resist a pitch like "... so by d!ck!ng me around and costing me money you are essentially killing little babies and destroying the planet." what a piece of work.
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#2843839 - 03/22/17 09:34 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: DanL]
gino Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/01/12
Posts: 129
Loc: Sydney NSW, Australia
Originally Posted By: DanL
"We rehearse Monday, Thursday and all day Saturday"



This laugh

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#2843848 - 03/22/17 10:09 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: gino]
cphollis Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 1803
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Speaking purely as a marketing dude, there's a way to say the same thing but in a more appealing, engaging way. I wish the dude luck.
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#2843853 - 03/22/17 10:21 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: cphollis]
HammondDave Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/20/08
Posts: 6807
Loc: Los Angeles, CA
Some "friend " of the singer shows up at the gig with a briefcase full of harmonicas...
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#2844561 - 03/25/17 05:20 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: tarkus]
El Lobo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/23/14
Posts: 652
Last night's gig: local female vocalist/bandleader is going to sit in for 1 tune. She and the harp player/singer in my band are friends. It's the last set, not a lot of people around, so what the hell. What song? "Stormy Monday – but fast." Oh-kaaay. What key? "Any key." Uh oh. Guitar tries a few keys, plays an A chord, sings a bar. "There?" "OK." Tries G. "Or there?" So forth and so on. I think we played it in C – nobody plays Stormy Monday in C – and it was uptempo. She can sing, chorus after chorus after chorus, but the band struggles to follow her and avoid a trainwreck. We finally make it to the end.

When she said "any key" I immediately thought of this thread.
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#2844677 - 03/26/17 10:56 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: El Lobo]
keyguy Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/26/05
Posts: 563
Loc: Tallahassee, FL
Originally Posted By: El Lobo
Last night's gig: local female vocalist/bandleader is going to sit in for 1 tune. She and the harp player/singer in my band are friends. It's the last set, not a lot of people around, so what the hell. What song? "Stormy Monday – but fast." Oh-kaaay. What key? "Any key." Uh oh. Guitar tries a few keys, plays an A chord, sings a bar. "There?" "OK." Tries G. "Or there?" So forth and so on. I think we played it in C – nobody plays Stormy Monday in C – and it was uptempo. She can sing, chorus after chorus after chorus, but the band struggles to follow her and avoid a trainwreck. We finally make it to the end.

When she said "any key" I immediately thought of this thread.


Believe it or not, our female vocalist sings it in C, and kills it. My experience with female singers is that if they are singing a male song, the 4th of the male song is pretty close. So Stormy Monday is usually in G, C should be perfect. YMMV...
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#2844685 - 03/26/17 12:00 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: keyguy]
El Lobo Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 12/23/14
Posts: 652
I knew that as soon as I said nobody plays Stormy Monday in C, somebody would say that their singer does it in C and kills it. laugh I was going to take it out, but left it in to see if anybody was reading. wave
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#2844886 - 03/27/17 08:37 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: allan_evett]
StanC Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 04/18/08
Posts: 652
Loc: Connecticut USA
Originally Posted By: allan_evett
Runner up, from 2001: After I placed my keyboard amp at head level, next to my rig.
Guitarist, "That's the stupidest thing I've ever seen".
Had to really bite my tongue after hearing that.




Along the same lines, I have a powered QSC on a stand I use for a monitor at ear level facing back at me. The sound guy comes up on the stage and turns my monitor away,

"This is supposed to go across stage"
Me: "Uh, no it doesn't. That's my stage monitor."
Sound guy: "What??? There's no reason for that! I got everything covered."
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Active: Yamaha S90 XS; Hammond XK-1/NEO Vent; Yamaha MOX8.
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#2845574 - 03/29/17 02:31 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: StanC]
LennyTunes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/15/01
Posts: 56
Loc: Live Music Capital ofthe World
Singer at the gig: "I know we have practiced these songs many times the last several rehearsals, but I'm still learning the lyrics. It's ok, I have them in front of me on my cell phone."
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Gig rig: Kronos73 | SK1+Vent | FantomG7 | XV-5080

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#2845606 - 03/29/17 06:56 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: LennyTunes]
J. Dan Offline
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 10812
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: LennyTunes
Singer at the gig: "I know we have practiced these songs many times the last several rehearsals, but I'm still learning the lyrics. It's ok, I have them in front of me on my cell phone."


Drives me nuts when I know the lyrics from hearing them so many times because we've rehearsed the damn song over and over so many times, and the singer still needs the lyrics in front of him.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2845827 - 03/30/17 02:12 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: J. Dan]
LennyTunes Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/15/01
Posts: 56
Loc: Live Music Capital ofthe World
I set up a pair of K10s on the floor on either side of my bench.
I hear, "Hey, why do you get 2 monitors?"

or

I set up a pair of K10s on tree stands on either side of my bench.
I hear, "Hey, why do you get your own PA?"
(often quoted by the guitar player with 2 4x10 cabinets.)


Edited by LennyTunes (03/30/17 02:22 PM)
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Gig rig: Kronos73 | SK1+Vent | FantomG7 | XV-5080

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#2845845 - 03/30/17 03:49 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: El Lobo]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2437
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: El Lobo
When she said "any key" I immediately thought of this thread.


Totally.

I played a gig a month or two ago where the BL sent over the keys for all the songs, arrived at after the first rehearsal with the singers (which I missed). Most were in C. Some were significantly transposed to get there. I asked if he was sure--yes, he was sure. I asked again a couple of days later: are you sure these are the keys? Some of these are pretty far off from the original. He said they were the correct and confirmed keys.

Learned 'em all, set up my splits, made my charts and notes. Get to rehearsal....every song is in the wrong key, except those that were originally in C to begin with. Song after song...wrong key, they're actually in the original key.

OK. Rehearsal ends. I asked him about it privately. He says he checked and double-checked, and all his IRealPro charts said they were in C.

So in other words, the "key signature" of each chart had no sharps or flats, so that made the song "in C," even though the chords themselves established the songs in their proper keys.

Sigh...
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#2845854 - 03/30/17 04:15 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
Dave Ferris Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5385
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
So in other words, the "key signature" of each chart had no sharps or flats, so that made the song "in C," even though the chords themselves established the songs in their proper keys. .


facepalm cry mad

I'm- happy - to - stay- in- my -studio - and -just- play - my - piano- for - the- rest- of - my- life. wink
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