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#2842640 - 03/18/17 11:18 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
Pete the bean Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 53
Loc: Canada
Upper and Lower tools. This is starting to sound very interesting.
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#2842715 - 03/18/17 06:11 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Pete the bean]
TommyS Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/13/13
Posts: 512
Loc: SoCal
Had a singer tell me he wanted the keyboard parts to " zing then zang ".

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#2842776 - 03/18/17 09:45 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: TommyS]
David Loving Offline
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Registered: 12/11/00
Posts: 4899
Loc: Texas
I have a singer that will ask what key the song is in.
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#2842807 - 03/19/17 05:59 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
Legatoboy Offline
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Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 3541
Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
After thinking about this some more....my red flags are people who spend a little to much time looking for mine! I think a after baking this around for a few days I've come to a greater understanding of how I feel about the topic...
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#2842811 - 03/19/17 06:40 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Legatoboy]
Moonglow Offline
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Registered: 03/15/03
Posts: 4415
Loc: Northwest Indiana
This thread has been a fun read. A lot of relatable things here, but of course there can be exceptions to some of the red flags mentioned. For example, I've been playing with a successful band for many years that involves a husband/wife situation.

It's been said that the most reliable predictor of future behavior is past behavior, so I try to focus on the "hard data." If a band has not played out much over the past two years, it probably will continue to not play out. If a musician has bounced around from band to band, he/she will probably continue to bounce around. If a band has burned through a lot of keyboard players, they probably will continue to have a hard time hanging on to keyboard players. But these things are not as much fun to discuss. Carry on!
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#2842813 - 03/19/17 06:45 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Moonglow]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 18978
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Getting to "rehearsal" and band leader says, "what songs do you guys want to do?" after he sent out a list prior to the get together. Then he picks a tune not on the list. Then we spend two hours playing four to six different songs. That have three chords. And are blues.

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#2842816 - 03/19/17 06:56 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Joe Muscara]
Dr88s Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 1056
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Not a criticism; just an observation:

Most of the red flags here would apply to a gigging keyboardist looking to make or supplement a living with gigs; I'd guess by the responses that would describe many/most of you.

I'm very happy in my band. We only play out once a year but enjoy the challenge of working on a variety of styles for the musicianship. Everyone is respectful to each other, does his or her homework, and tries their best. It suits my needs just fine. And yes, the singer is married to someone in the band - me!

My red flags would me more those that indicate a lack of respect or unreasonable expectations towards others.
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#2842852 - 03/19/17 10:24 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Dr88s]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 18978
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Originally Posted By: Dr88s
Not a criticism; just an observation:

Most of the red flags here would apply to a gigging keyboardist looking to make or supplement a living with gigs; I'd guess by the responses that would describe many/most of you.

I'm very happy in my band. We only play out once a year but enjoy the challenge of working on a variety of styles for the musicianship. Everyone is respectful to each other, does his or her homework, and tries their best. It suits my needs just fine. And yes, the singer is married to someone in the band - me!

My red flags would me more those that indicate a lack of respect or unreasonable expectations towards others.
Sure. I actually do not have a problem with a band that just wants to get together to play for fun. But even if that's all a band does, I'd want to progress in that environment somehow, whether that's new songs or something else. Everyone should be in agreement about what the band does. If they all want to play out once every few weeks, months, or once a year, great. But don't tell me you want to be gigging and never do it. Don't get together for a two hour jam and play maybe half a dozen songs. At least, that's not what I want to do when I go to jam. I'm there to *play,* not to sit around and BS, wait for someone to set up or get gear working, or work on arrangements like we're getting ready for a gig that doesn't exist.

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#2842859 - 03/19/17 11:18 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Joe Muscara]
Legatoboy Offline
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Registered: 08/11/06
Posts: 3541
Loc: Huntington Sta., New York (LI)
I meant it only in terms of this topic BTW. I realize they way I sounded in my last post could have been misheard.

I only play with friends now or people I trust using a more diverse set of value gauges to determine the projects I will get involved with and Hallelujah for that.

Pro or semi/pro years look funny to you from that perspective.
I consider myself at 62 extremely fortunate I was able to play regularly, keep a day gig and actively study music into later life and kudos to my wife for understanding me and all of it. I'm very careful with that....so now I'm a bit more delicate with myself, my ambition and my choices. I haven't had to many Red Flag issue days in about 2 years after a few bad experiences and a few successful choices.

I had to play to make ends meet through a few years back in the way back so I understand both sides to some degree....boy is that a great way to live if your up to it or what. I want to retire and grab as much of the full time musical life as I can because it's simply the healthiest way to live in so many practical ways.



Edited by Legatoboy (03/19/17 11:29 AM)
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#2842862 - 03/19/17 11:53 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Legatoboy]
EscapeRocks Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 08/12/03
Posts: 4302
Loc: Texas
Originally Posted By: Legatoboy
I meant it only in terms of this topic BTW. I realize they way I sounded in my last post could have been misheard.

I only play with friends now or people I trust using a more diverse set of value gauges to determine the projects I will get involved with and Hallelujah for that.

Pro or semi/pro years look funny to you from that perspective.
I consider myself at 62 extremely fortunate I was able to play regularly, keep a day gig and actively study music into later life and kudos to my wife for understanding me and all of it. I'm very careful with that....so now I'm a bit more delicate with myself, my ambition and my choices. I haven't had to many Red Flag issue days in about 2 years after a few bad experiences and a few successful choices.

I had to play to make ends meet through a few years back in the way back so I understand both sides to some degree....boy is that a great way to live if your up to it or what. I want to retire and grab as much of the full time musical life as I can because it's simply the healthiest way to live in so many practical ways.



like
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#2843022 - 03/20/17 07:38 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: El Lobo]
Outkaster Offline
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Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5726
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: El Lobo
Originally Posted By: RobP2
"we expect 110% commitment and for you not to be involved in any other music projects."
This would be fine, assuming it means they have 2-3 gigs a week lined up for the next 6 months of the gig calendar or are preparing for a tour that's already booked. But this kind of thing is usually said by a band that's just getting together, has no gigs, and hasn't rehearsed yet or even settled on who the members are.


That's not always bad. I don't require 100% dedication but I don't use subs because the end product suffers. There is a ton of gig whores out there that always have one foot in and one foot out of the door. No thanks it always ends up in a conflict and they leave.
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#2843042 - 03/20/17 08:35 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Joe Muscara]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2517
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Originally Posted By: Dr88s
Not a criticism; just an observation:

Most of the red flags here would apply to a gigging keyboardist looking to make or supplement a living with gigs; I'd guess by the responses that would describe many/most of you.

I'm very happy in my band. We only play out once a year but enjoy the challenge of working on a variety of styles for the musicianship. Everyone is respectful to each other, does his or her homework, and tries their best. It suits my needs just fine. And yes, the singer is married to someone in the band - me!

My red flags would me more those that indicate a lack of respect or unreasonable expectations towards others.
Sure. I actually do not have a problem with a band that just wants to get together to play for fun. But even if that's all a band does, I'd want to progress in that environment somehow, whether that's new songs or something else. Everyone should be in agreement about what the band does. If they all want to play out once every few weeks, months, or once a year, great. But don't tell me you want to be gigging and never do it. Don't get together for a two hour jam and play maybe half a dozen songs. At least, that's not what I want to do when I go to jam. I'm there to *play,* not to sit around and BS, wait for someone to set up or get gear working, or work on arrangements like we're getting ready for a gig that doesn't exist.


I usually keep one "passion project" in the mix, but it's always a performing entity. If I have one night free a week to sit around and jam tunes in a noodle factory, then that means I have one night a week NOT to do that. The latter is way more attractive to me. So for me a "passion project" is the one where if they say, "I have this big gig coming up and I want to blow their pants off with a full band, but can't pay your rate for this one. Would you still do it?" my answer is probably going to be yes.

Meanwhile, not for nothing, but may I just say that February and March have been excruciatingly slow. I went from four gigs a week to four gigs a month for the last two months. I am panicking and feeling old and forgotten.
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#2843122 - 03/20/17 12:49 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
SkiGuy777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/19/17
Posts: 151
Loc: Plantation FL
The Craigslist ads, this even goes back to the rag paper days.

Ads that ask for "Pro" and "Committed" that have no web site, no videos, no set list, but ask for the entire band. "Looking for Bass, Guitar, Keyboards, Drums, and Horns." Oh, in other words, the entire band.

Actually had a bunch of posts in the Craigslist forum about the "committed" part and the musicians said the best or "pros" will band hop (fill in) and it's better for everyone when that happens.

Ads that state rehearsals will be at a pay for studio. The problem here is you're paying to rehearse, and by the time you get everything set up (mic and instrument levels), there's only about 1.5 hours of a 2 hour block, with the next band coming in. It may be quick for a little 3 piece to set up, but anything more takes 30 minutes.

Actually, a good way to find gigs is to seek out similar bands you're playing in, go see them, and say you can be the back up. I still scan the CL ads just in case, but it's 99% noise. Like finding a needle in a haystack. I realize it's good to leave the least info possible, but if there's no name, video, and it says pay studio, I move on.


Edited by SkiGuy777 (03/20/17 12:51 PM)
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#2843129 - 03/20/17 01:26 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
richforman Offline
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Registered: 02/05/10
Posts: 1069
Loc: Long Island, NY
Piano ties are like keytars.....fellow musicians and keyboard players say they're the worst, laughably cheesy, but the barflies in the crowd seem to have no problem with them at all, I still wear a skinny keyboard tie for some of my dance band gigs and always get compliments on it!
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#2843329 - 03/21/17 02:38 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Outkaster]
RobP2 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 139
Loc: Bedford, UK
Originally Posted By: Outkaster


That's not always bad. I don't require 100% dedication but I don't use subs because the end product suffers. There is a ton of gig whores out there that always have one foot in and one foot out of the door. No thanks it always ends up in a conflict and they leave.


A term like "gig whores" would be a red flag for me. Maybe it ends "in conflict" because you call them that?
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#2843337 - 03/21/17 04:29 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: richforman]
DanL Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 3948
Loc: DE
Originally Posted By: richforman
Piano ties are like keytars.....fellow musicians and keyboard players say they're the worst, laughably cheesy, but the barflies in the crowd seem to have no problem with them at all, I still wear a skinny keyboard tie for some of my dance band gigs and always get compliments on it!


My wife bought me a pair of those Chuck Taylor knockoffs that have a piano keyboard on them. They are a fun conversation piece.
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#2843346 - 03/21/17 05:37 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: RobP2]
tucktronix Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/12/06
Posts: 1077
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: RobP2
Originally Posted By: Outkaster


That's not always bad. I don't require 100% dedication but I don't use subs because the end product suffers. There is a ton of gig whores out there that always have one foot in and one foot out of the door. No thanks it always ends up in a conflict and they leave.


A term like "gig whores" would be a red flag for me. Maybe it ends "in conflict" because you call them that?


Umm.. most likely not. "Gig whore" is a term of endearment for some folks. As a matter of fact, I often refer to myself as one.
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#2843366 - 03/21/17 06:48 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: RobP2]
Outkaster Offline
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Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5726
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: RobP2
Originally Posted By: Outkaster


That's not always bad. I don't require 100% dedication but I don't use subs because the end product suffers. There is a ton of gig whores out there that always have one foot in and one foot out of the door. No thanks it always ends up in a conflict and they leave.


A term like "gig whores" would be a red flag for me. Maybe it ends "in conflict" because you call them that?


Listen I had two guys that were like this. I don't say it to their face but both of those guys are gone because they were always looking for something better...now both of them don't have anything because they can't keep a band together or aren't disciplined enough in other ways. That's why it ends in "conflict" They both are no longer in a situation that was making them a little bit of money and had a good following so that is on them....they lost out. Nothing is wrong with playing in multiple groups it just makes it harder for a band to book around that, especially if it's a niche music.

That's why I don't use subs, unless there was some kind of emergency that can't be avoided (It happened only once in 2013 but I have been lucky since then) Case in point 8 years ago I was playing with a well known regional soul band and the singer was not able to make it so someone else did the leads and a lot of the crowd left. The singer was playing on the side with someone else and thought no one would find out. The owner of the club didn't want to pay us because he didn't get the product he hired. This is an owner that bent over backwards everytime we played his club and was very reasonable with food and drinks. I didn't blame him, thank god it worked out but I try to avoid that stuff. For the record I don't sub when it undermines my own group, why would I sideline my own project? I have seen musicians do that, its what I mean when I say one foot in and one out the door. Nothing is wrong with looking for something better but sometimes the grass is not greener on the other side all the time.


Edited by Outkaster (03/21/17 06:54 AM)
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#2843396 - 03/21/17 08:16 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Outkaster]
SkiGuy777 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/19/17
Posts: 151
Loc: Plantation FL
I don't band hop because I'm tired of learning 50 classic rock tunes I no longer care about, that usually involve 2 or 3 patches per song. Reading them on the fly from a chart is not my thing either, I have to practice and have the parts as muscle memory.

The current horn band I play with as a back up has 120 tunes, I have 70 of them I'm comfortable with. Then there's the 3DN tribute with members of the same group, so that's another 40 to learn.

That's the other joke about CL, is the ads saying someone can fill in. Yeah, if you come out, video tape the band, then spend 3 months learning the material. That's exactly what I did to get into the current group. It's easy to sub for horn players because they read charts. But anyone else, a backup player like me would be needed who is ok with filling in every now and then. I'm OK with playing a few times a year and getting a video out of it.


Edited by SkiGuy777 (03/21/17 08:20 AM)
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#2843403 - 03/21/17 08:31 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: SkiGuy777]
J. Dan Offline
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Registered: 07/25/08
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Loc: St. Louis, MO
If you're going to have somebody sub, you just have to get talented subs and it doesn't hurt the band.

The one I sub with from time to time subs every position regularly, including the lead singer, and they are going as strong as ever. They get some of the best players in town, and rather than try to hide it, they highlight it and spotlight the "special guest". I once played an outdoor concert with them where the only regular band member was the singer, and the rest of us had never played together before, except I had done a couple gigs with the bass player before. Nobody knew we hadn't played together before. On this occasion it was because they got double booked and the casino wouldn't let them out of the gig, so they did the casino with another singer and the rest of us played the concert with the regular singer. At the end of the show, somebody came up and said "are you guys playing at the casino tonight?" I said "yes, if you hurry up you may catch the end of our last set".

Anyway, the venues expect it and it's fine because they always get a great show. The guys who fill in are all pro players and show up prepared. I enjoy it because I've gotten to play with a lot of the guys around town that I've heard of or seen, but was never in a band with.

It's good for the regular band members because they don't have to get burned out playing every single weekend. If they need a night off, just take it and somebody will fill in. The regular keyboard player just bought an RV and is wanting some time off. Can't say I blame him. Better to keep your regular players and have them be happy and have their sanity than get everybody burned out and at each others throats, or cut back the gigs to where half the band is unhappy, etc.
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#2843407 - 03/21/17 08:37 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Joe Muscara]
PianoMan51 Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/02/10
Posts: 861
Loc: SE NC marsh
Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Getting to "rehearsal" and band leader says, "what songs do you guys want to do?" after he sent out a list prior to the get together. Then he picks a tune not on the list. Then we spend two hours playing four to six different songs. That have three chords. And are blues.

That happened to you too?

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#2843411 - 03/21/17 08:48 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: PianoMan51]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2517
Loc: California
In fact, "no hired guns!" (i.e., gig whores) is a red flag for me. Hopefully it's a band full of hired guns. If you're playing great shows every night and making house-downpayment money, sure, I can pull back other stuff a bit, but then...it's even more likely that folks will need subs sometimes (i.e., hired guns).
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#2843420 - 03/21/17 09:26 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: J. Dan]
Outkaster Offline
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Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5726
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
If you're going to have somebody sub, you just have to get talented subs and it doesn't hurt the band.

The one I sub with from time to time subs every position regularly, including the lead singer, and they are going as strong as ever. They get some of the best players in town, and rather than try to hide it, they highlight it and spotlight the "special guest". I once played an outdoor concert with them where the only regular band member was the singer, and the rest of us had never played together before, except I had done a couple gigs with the bass player before. Nobody knew we hadn't played together before. On this occasion it was because they got double booked and the casino wouldn't let them out of the gig, so they did the casino with another singer and the rest of us played the concert with the regular singer. At the end of the show, somebody came up and said "are you guys playing at the casino tonight?" I said "yes, if you hurry up you may catch the end of our last set".

Anyway, the venues expect it and it's fine because they always get a great show. The guys who fill in are all pro players and show up prepared. I enjoy it because I've gotten to play with a lot of the guys around town that I've heard of or seen, but was never in a band with.

It's good for the regular band members because they don't have to get burned out playing every single weekend. If they need a night off, just take it and somebody will fill in. The regular keyboard player just bought an RV and is wanting some time off. Can't say I blame him. Better to keep your regular players and have them be happy and have their sanity than get everybody burned out and at each others throats, or cut back the gigs to where half the band is unhappy, etc.


Dan pro players don't make the best bands, in fact it can be boring but that is whole other topic. Unless someone knows the music we are making they just can't sit in. You have to know what's going on. You can get away with certain things in blues and rock, cultural music not so much. We don't play that much for people to be that burned out, it's not every weekend either. i am interested in getting the best possible product I can get within reason. I am sensitive to the other guys in the band. If someone wants time off I try to book around them or to know up front so we can work with their schedule. Bands full of subs I don't get.
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#2843471 - 03/21/17 01:05 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: cphollis]
Pat Azzarello Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/11/01
Posts: 897
Loc: WA,UNITED STATES
Can't help jumping in - so entertaining and SO true.

1. "We're professionals, we'll get it right at the gig (after never having gotten it right in rehearsal)"

2. Around charts and notation
a. Band member: We have charts.
Me: Cool. Can I get a copy.
Band Member: Sure, I'll send you a link.
Link arrives to bad guitar tab page

b. Quality/accuracy of charts
Band member: The bass player wrote the charts.
Me: Great. Does he/she play other instruments?
Band member: No, but he/she used to play drums.
Charts arrive - it's just the bass notes in a word doc.

3. Trying to be "helpful"
a. Gee, that patch sounds buzzy in my in-ears.
b. Can I come by and help you mix the recording from the live set? I've never done it before and I want to learn. (translation: Gee, I want to make certain that her instrument is louder and better sounding than anyone's at the cost of my time).


4. Quality of craftsmanship/professionalism
Yeah, well Joey learned it wrong and it was better to just have us match what he was doing than do it the right way. (Explains Penderecki style harmonies).

Well, (enter name of marginal talent) does this for a living, so they know what they're doing.

And my all time favorite:
Band Member: "Oh, I just learn the songs off YouTube"
Me: Oh. I usually buy the tunes (Inner Voice: It's the least I can do since I'm making money playing someone else's material).
Band Member: Oh - they're rich enough, and we don't get paid well enough to actually buy the music we cover.

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#2843472 - 03/21/17 01:05 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Outkaster]
MathOfInsects Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/04/15
Posts: 2517
Loc: California
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Dan pro players don't make the best bands, in fact it can be boring but that is whole other topic. Unless someone knows the music we are making they just can't sit in. You have to know what's going on. You can get away with certain things in blues and rock, cultural music not so much. We don't play that much for people to be that burned out, it's not every weekend either. i am interested in getting the best possible product I can get within reason. I am sensitive to the other guys in the band. If someone wants time off I try to book around them or to know up front so we can work with their schedule. Bands full of subs I don't get.


It's interesting how different these perspectives can be. I play in a couple of projects where the four or five members are "the band," and they won't book anything we can't all do. I personally keep wishing they would sub me or another member out. The more the band plays, the better for all of us. And the more subs they use, the better the subs get--and the better the subs get, the more band can play, which brings us back to the top. smile
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#2843478 - 03/21/17 01:37 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Pat Azzarello]
wineandkeyz Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 02/06/06
Posts: 557
Loc: North Carolina
Originally Posted By: Pat Azzarello
And my all time favorite:
Band Member: "Oh, I just learn the songs off YouTube"
Me: Oh. I usually buy the tunes...


And then you get to rehearsal and found out that every "Band Member" learned a different version of the song because, for some reason, they just didn't want to click the video for the most well-known version -- the one that you bought and that everybody in the known universe is familiar with.
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#2843499 - 03/21/17 02:52 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: wineandkeyz]
Joe Muscara Offline
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Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 18978
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Originally Posted By: wineandkeyz
Originally Posted By: Pat Azzarello
And my all time favorite:
Band Member: "Oh, I just learn the songs off YouTube"
Me: Oh. I usually buy the tunes...


And then you get to rehearsal and found out that every "Band Member" learned a different version of the song because, for some reason, they just didn't want to click the video for the most well-known version -- the one that you bought and that everybody in the known universe is familiar with.
I was going to say something similar. They say they'll send you the songs, then all they do is send the *list* of songs, and when you ask for the songs, they say they're on YT. So you check YT, and you're not even clear which versions they're talking about, especially if they don't get the song titles right.

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#2843504 - 03/21/17 03:05 PM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: MathOfInsects]
stoken6 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 1479
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
I play in a couple of projects where the four or five members are "the band," and they won't book anything we can't all do. I personally keep wishing they would sub me or another member out.


This. It's the reason you should only join bands whose standard means the gig pay can fund subs if required. I would be annoyed if one member's unavailability meant we had to turn down a gig. I get that people have other commitments - that's where subs come in.

Cheers, Mike.
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#2843575 - 03/22/17 03:12 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: Outkaster]
RobP2 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/19/09
Posts: 139
Loc: Bedford, UK
Originally Posted By: Outkaster


Dan pro players don't make the best bands, in fact it can be boring but that is whole other topic. Unless someone knows the music we are making they just can't sit in. You have to know what's going on. You can get away with certain things in blues and rock, cultural music not so much. We don't play that much for people to be that burned out, it's not every weekend either. i am interested in getting the best possible product I can get within reason. I am sensitive to the other guys in the band. If someone wants time off I try to book around them or to know up front so we can work with their schedule. Bands full of subs I don't get.


Well if you are playing original material there is an issue, of course, but that's what rehearsals are for. I've depped, sat in on sessions and played full time for various reggae bands, covers and originals. That was working with pro players down to weekenders.

I agree in that I would be far less likely to dep someone in to my originals bands, as they would need to know the set. But I have done it a couple of times, once when a guitarist let us down five days before a major gig. We had a guy come in one one rehearsal and he saved the day for us - but he was a pro player. So emergency situations - maybe.

My red flag is more to do with bands who say they want "110% commitment" when they are playing six covers gigs a year and the set includes Summer of 69, Sex on Fire, etc.

I played two dep gigs recently with sets like that, no rehearsals required, most of the guys knew each other and had played together before - two gigs, two satisfied club owners. Chord charts were sent out the week before - if people can't cope with that kind of playing, maybe they shouldn't be out playing for money?

So, each to their own. If playing music forms a substantial part of income, then sure, people will look for decent paid work. That may also, as it does in my case, subsidise original projects, which is where my heart is at. If playing is a weekend hobby, then fine, but don't necessarily expect high level players to sign up. If your sole aim is one band and you can afford to run it off your day job - then great.

I do get the commitment thing in some respects - depending on the type of band and the gig diary. But the biggest problem I have, in terms of booking dates and rehearsals,is not from pros but from the guys who "can't do that date cos I'm going shopping with my wife" or the guys who have four holidays a year, or who "always go fishing on a Sunday" etc etc. Now we all have lives and families, fair enough, but why join a full time band? Which is one reason I prefer working with pros I guess, or at least people with a pro attitude - they seem to be able to manage diaries much better




Edited by RobP2 (03/22/17 03:14 AM)
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#2843596 - 03/22/17 06:12 AM Re: Red Flags--What Are Yours? [Re: RobP2]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5726
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: RobP2
Originally Posted By: Outkaster


Dan pro players don't make the best bands, in fact it can be boring but that is whole other topic. Unless someone knows the music we are making they just can't sit in. You have to know what's going on. You can get away with certain things in blues and rock, cultural music not so much. We don't play that much for people to be that burned out, it's not every weekend either. i am interested in getting the best possible product I can get within reason. I am sensitive to the other guys in the band. If someone wants time off I try to book around them or to know up front so we can work with their schedule. Bands full of subs I don't get.


Well if you are playing original material there is an issue, of course, but that's what rehearsals are for. I've depped, sat in on sessions and played full time for various reggae bands, covers and originals. That was working with pro players down to weekenders.

I agree in that I would be far less likely to dep someone in to my originals bands, as they would need to know the set. But I have done it a couple of times, once when a guitarist let us down five days before a major gig. We had a guy come in one one rehearsal and he saved the day for us - but he was a pro player. So emergency situations - maybe.

My red flag is more to do with bands who say they want "110% commitment" when they are playing six covers gigs a year and the set includes Summer of 69, Sex on Fire, etc.

I played two dep gigs recently with sets like that, no rehearsals required, most of the guys knew each other and had played together before - two gigs, two satisfied club owners. Chord charts were sent out the week before - if people can't cope with that kind of playing, maybe they shouldn't be out playing for money?

So, each to their own. If playing music forms a substantial part of income, then sure, people will look for decent paid work. That may also, as it does in my case, subsidise original projects, which is where my heart is at. If playing is a weekend hobby, then fine, but don't necessarily expect high level players to sign up. If your sole aim is one band and you can afford to run it off your day job - then great.

I do get the commitment thing in some respects - depending on the type of band and the gig diary. But the biggest problem I have, in terms of booking dates and rehearsals,is not from pros but from the guys who "can't do that date cos I'm going shopping with my wife" or the guys who have four holidays a year, or who "always go fishing on a Sunday" etc etc. Now we all have lives and families, fair enough, but why join a full time band? Which is one reason I prefer working with pros I guess, or at least people with a pro attitude - they seem to be able to manage diaries much better




Rob I agree with what you are saying here and it's pretty much the same thing with me. I realize it's a hobby for a lot of people but I don't think anything is wrong with sounding good or acting pro. We do have a couple of CD's of originals so it is pretty specific. We all have lives, kids, commitments as we get older so I try to put that in perspective for certain members. I am lucky that it works as well as it does.
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