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#2829837 - 01/20/17 06:41 PM Korg Grandstage
ElmerJFudd Offline
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KORG Grandstage




I understand this stand is a new product as well.









Looks like a very simple user interface. Small screen for patch/parameter viewing. Dedicated knobs. Recall buttons. Very much in the style of the SV-1. Unlike the VOX - this one looks AP/EP centric - makes sense given the action is RH3. The VOX is similar concept organ centric.

They've put a backlit glowing logo on it - user can turn on or off, ie. the Yamaha CP1. Not a fan of this, I'd definitely have mine turned off. Probably black gaff the Grandstage logo as well. YMMV



Very boxy, square and flat design. Looks like some room to put your phone or tablet - unlike the SV-1's curvy build.

The below might be accurate, I don't have a confirmed source on this:

88/73 key versions?

Pianos included:
New Italian Grand (assume Faziloi)
New Yamaha Upright
German Grand
Yamaha Grand
Austrian Grand
Berlin Grand
New CP80

The seven engines are:
SGX-2
EP-1
CX-3
HD-1
AL-1
Vox Organ
Farfisa Organ

Comes with 400 programs
Layers/Splits

No indication of timeframe nor price.

Opinions on the RH3 for acoustic piano playing?

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#2829843 - 01/20/17 07:13 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: ElmerJFudd]
johnchop Offline
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Like the look. Like the immediacy of control.

RH3 though... really not my favorite. I prefer lighter actions. RH3 always felt really sluggish to me.

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#2829844 - 01/20/17 07:14 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: ElmerJFudd]
GregC Offline
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Listened to a 25 minute jack hotop performance of the grand stage. I think korg has taken the stage piano to a new heighth

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#2829845 - 01/20/17 07:16 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Small screen for patch/parameter viewing.

If it indeed has the CX3 engine, I'd guess there would also be some way to set the levels of the 9 drawbars via that screen?

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Opinions on the RH3 for acoustic piano playing?

I kind of put it in the same category as the Yamaha GH. Not bad, though perhaps a bit heavier than I'd prefer, not the quickest action out there. The RH3 did feel particularly nice when playing EPs on the SV1, though.
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#2829846 - 01/20/17 07:17 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: GregC]
EscapeRocks Offline
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I really like the design. Having the controls all pushed toward the keys, with the open space in the back allows an upper board to be lower without covering the controls.

I miss those days of flat topped boards that you could place your top board directly on.
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#2829847 - 01/20/17 07:18 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: GregC]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: GregC
Listened to a 25 minute jack hotop performance of the grand stage. I think korg has taken the stage piano to a new heighth

any link?
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#2829853 - 01/20/17 07:58 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
BrandonBruce Offline
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Nice, intuitive interface - I like it.
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#2829854 - 01/20/17 08:01 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: BrandonBruce]
cphollis Offline
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Looks like it's designed to go up against the Nord Piano 3.
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#2829858 - 01/20/17 08:29 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: cphollis]
Adan Offline
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As a descendent of the SV1 -- which it surely seems to me -- then it's interesting how they completely ditched the hip design in favor of functionality. I liked the unique look of the SV1, but fingers banging against the control panel and occasionally changing favorites (even after they supposedly fixed this) was just stupid.

I'm hoping the 73 is around 31-32 lbs. If so, I'd be interested.
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#2829859 - 01/20/17 08:44 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: cphollis]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: cphollis
Looks like it's designed to go up against the Nord Piano 3.

Interesting comparison. Both (presumably) mid-weight stage pianos with a lot of emphasis on direct hands-on controls. I expect that the Korg will probably be lighter and cheaper, and will be better sounding for the non-piano sounds. Nord may have the edge on acoustic piano sounds, at least to the extent that many people seem to prefer the Nord piano sounds to those on the Kronos, though perhaps there will be some other piano-specific enhancements on this new board. I think EPs favor Kronos, though Nord has its fans there too. Nord allows you to load custom samples, I don't know if that Kronos functionality will make it to the Grandstage. To some people, a deciding factor could be the actions, which I think will feel quite different. Both good, but neither likely to be favored over the top-of-line actions offered by Yamaha/Roland/Kawai (generally in heavier boards). Also, if it has the CX3 engine in it, even without the realtime controls, it adds another dimension that could even help persuade someone looking at an Electro or Stage.
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#2829860 - 01/20/17 08:47 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
cphollis Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: cphollis
Looks like it's designed to go up against the Nord Piano 3.

Interesting comparison. Both (presumably) mid-weight stage pianos with a lot of emphasis on direct hands-on controls. I expect that the Korg will probably be lighter and cheaper, and will be better sounding for the non-piano sounds. Nord may have the edge on acoustic piano sounds, at least to the extent that many people seem to prefer the Nord piano sounds to those on the Kronos, though perhaps there will be some other piano-specific enhancements on this new board. I think EPs favor Kronos, though Nord has its fans there too. Nord allows you to load custom samples, I don't know if that Kronos functionality will make it to the Grandstage. To some people, a deciding factor could be the actions, which I think will feel quite different. Both good, but neither likely to be favored over the top-of-line actions offered by Yamaha/Roland/Kawai (generally in heavier boards). Also, if it has the CX3 engine in it, even without the realtime controls, it adds another dimension that could even help persuade someone looking at an Electro or Stage.



Yep. That's the post I would have written. Thanks!
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#2829861 - 01/20/17 08:50 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: Adan]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Adan
As a descendent of the SV1 -- which it surely seems to me -- then it's interesting how they completely ditched the hip design in favor of functionality. I liked the unique look of the SV1, but fingers banging against the control panel and occasionally changing favorites (even after they supposedly fixed this) was just stupid.

I agree that the SV1 looked super cool, but didn't seem to be designed with the utmost in practicality in mind. Besides the issue you mention, as as often been discussed in the past, the curved edges and top made it somewhat difficult/uncomfortable to pick up from any angle, and also interfered with the ability to put anything on top of it. It was an Italian design, and in that respect, stereotypically so, like their history of sports cars with fantastic aesthetics but all kinds of practical issues.

Originally Posted By: Adan
I'm hoping the 73 is around 31-32 lbs. If so, I'd be interested.

Ditto. That's about my limit.
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#2829864 - 01/20/17 09:10 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: ElmerJFudd]
DulceLabs.com Offline
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Small screen for patch/parameter viewing.


Looks to be the same OLED from the Mini/Monologue synths.

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#2829865 - 01/20/17 09:28 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: DulceLabs.com]
AnotherScott Offline
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If it's got a lot of the Kronos' guts in it, it might have the same kind of USB support... then maybe you could use something like a Korg Nanokontrol for real-time CX3 engine drawbar control, that would be cool...
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#2829867 - 01/20/17 09:55 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
cphollis Offline
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Not that it matters to most folks, but stage aesthtics matter to me.

As it is, I show up with All Red keyboards: Nord Stage Two, Nord Piano 2 HA 88 and Nord Electro 4D.

I'm a red boy, It doesn't suck.

The question for me?

Is it worth disinvesting in my stage stack philosophy, just to engage with the latest greatest, or stay the course?
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#2829868 - 01/20/17 10:06 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: cphollis]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: cphollis
Not that it matters to most folks, but stage aesthtics matter to me.

As it is, I show up with All Red keyboards: Nord Stage Two, Nord Piano 2 HA 88 and Nord Electro 4D.

I'm a red boy, It doesn't suck.

The question for me?

Is it worth disinvesting in my stage stack philosophy, just to engage with the latest greatest, or stay the course?

It might not take much effort to turn the Granstage largely red, if it floats your boat.
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#2829900 - 01/21/17 02:35 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
Nadroj Offline
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Anyone speak Japanese?


This has been the most exciting thing from NAMM this year for me. May tick all the boxes in my long sought after Electro 4 replacement.
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#2829902 - 01/21/17 02:59 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: Nadroj]
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#2829903 - 01/21/17 03:05 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: marczellm]
vanderSchoot Offline
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So can we 'hear' the thing now ? The looks are known.........now i want to hear the thing smile


Edited by vanderSchoot (01/21/17 03:06 AM)

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#2829907 - 01/21/17 04:12 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: vanderSchoot]
TomKittel Offline
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Hope it doesn't take a coffee break to boot.

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#2829917 - 01/21/17 05:54 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
GregC Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: GregC
Listened to a 25 minute jack hotop performance of the grand stage. I think korg has taken the stage piano to a new heighth

any link?


its on FB. Some dealer made a smart phone recording- the recording quality is average at best, and video/audio jumps out of sync.

I think Korg will do a proper demo soon.

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#2829918 - 01/21/17 05:59 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: TomKittel]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Kronos 88 - $3700
Kronos 73 - $3400
Kronos 61 - $3000
SV-1 88 - $1700
Krome 88 - $1650
SV-1 73 - $1500
Krome 73 - $1250
Krome 61 - $1050

So, if it has trickle down Kronos engines - it probably also has similar silicon inside unless they've recompiled to run on older pcb designs. So, I am going to guess, yes - it will need to boot more similarly to a Kronos. But maybe it's just lighter in that regard, so not as noticeable.

So, Kronos engines means Korg doesn't value it in the same category as the Krome. So it's going to me more expensive than a Krome. So do they insert it in the same pricing scheme as the SV-1 now? I doubt it. It will probably launch at CP4 matched pricing $2300 for the 88 and $1800-2000 for the 73.

Love the concept - not sure I can bite if the RH3 isn't the shit.
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#2829921 - 01/21/17 06:10 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: ElmerJFudd]
GregC Offline
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Kronos 88 - $3700
Kronos 73 - $3400
Kronos 61 - $3000
SV-1 88 - $1700
Krome 88 - $1650
SV-1 73 - $1500
Krome 73 - $1250
Krome 61 - $1050

So, if it has trickle down Kronos engines - it probably also has similar silicon inside unless they've recompiled to run on older pcb designs. So, I am going to guess, yes - it will need to boot more similarly to a Kronos. But maybe it's just lighter in that regard, so not as noticeable.

So, Kronos engines means Korg doesn't value it in the same category as the Krome. So it's going to me more expensive than a Krome. So do they insert it in the same pricing scheme as the SV-1 now? I doubt it. It will probably launch at CP4 matched pricing $2300 for the 88 and $1800-2000 for the 73.

Love the concept - not sure I can bite if the RH3 isn't the shit.


I don't have a problem with the RH3 ( have the 88). It took some adaptation but that was a minor consideration for me.

I would guess that the grand stage will be on the high price side compared to its many competitors ( Roland, Yamaha, Nord). The Korg has added a few new AP's to it.

I like what I am hearing and seeing but I have preferred the Korg sound for some time. The NAMM instrument was a prototype. So I don't expect any hard data about boot time, etc.

Maybe William Bush got a good listen to Hotop's performance. I recall that Korg might not let guests try a prototype

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#2829932 - 01/21/17 07:18 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: GregC]
DanL Offline
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Nice easy patch recall with the favorites.

Effect section looks a bit anemic, I'm guessing any modulation effects would be built into the sounds themselves.
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#2829934 - 01/21/17 07:23 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: DanL]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Offering the sound of Kronos at a stage piano price is going to have compromise for sure... the UI suggests that compromise will be limited editability - unless! they offer sound programming via app or software. Over WiFi would be top modern... browser based, even. but I don't think that's where they are going here.
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#2829943 - 01/21/17 08:25 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: ElmerJFudd]
burningbusch Offline
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Somethings I recall from the presentation.

I believe it was said there are four inserts FXs available. So yes it would appear that they're built into the preset as there are no specific controls for modulation FXs, etc. Assume SW#1/2 would turn these on/off with other controllers for speed/depth.

Heard the CX3 distortion has been improved. Possibly other tweaks to the CX3.

It sounds like a Kronos of course. I thought the new Italian sounded less percussive than other Korg pianos but my listening was from afar, not through headphones so I can't be certain.

I think it's reasonable to assume the PROTOTYPE Vox Continental has the same engines as the PROTOTYPE Grandstage but with semi weighted keys and organ appropriate controls. So rather than the more generic approach of Nord, Korg will offer two models one more stage piano and the other more organ. I would say these are more like an Electro than a Stage. There is a clear distinction between these and the much more powerful Kronos. There shouldn't be any reason for the buyer to be confused. The action on the Grandstage is the RH3 while the Vox seems close to the Kronos LS.

Also, I wasn't put off by the looks. The grayscale wood grain section appears to be metal, with brushed aluminum used on the faceplate. The sides I believe are plastic but not the shiny plastic of the original Kronos. I thought the whole thing worked. The large Korg and Vox logos on the back light up.



There is an element who are resistant to digital keyboards and would rather play something like 200a all night. For them, the Nords are an acceptable replacement where a Kronos or Montage screams DIGITAL. Korg's thinking on both these new prototypes reflects that, IMO.

Busch.


Edited by burningbusch (01/21/17 08:30 AM)

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#2829945 - 01/21/17 08:35 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
So, Kronos engines means Korg doesn't value it in the same category as the Krome. So it's going to me more expensive than a Krome. So do they insert it in the same pricing scheme as the SV-1 now? I doubt it. It will probably launch at CP4 matched pricing $2300 for the 88 and $1800-2000 for the 73.

I agree that, within the Korg lineup, it makes sense that the 73 would have to sell for less than the Kronos 73 and more than the SV1 73. Competitively, though, I'm not sure the best comparison is with the CP4 (or CP40, which may actually be closer in terms of action, probably the biggest differentiator between the 4 and the 40). I think its the knobby ergonomics that will create its immediate appeal, and there its competitor is really Nord, which gives them a little more upside latitude to price above Yamaha and still seem competitive, i.e. with both the Nord Piano 3 and the Electro 5HP selling for $3k (even despite less than ideal action). Plus it's easier for a company to come out high and reduce the price later than it is to do the reverse. Not that I'm hoping for a high price, and I imagine that, with no pricing announced, Korg themselves may still be trying to figure the best way to price it, but I would not be surprised to see it priced more like, say,$2400- $2500 for the 73 and a couple of hundred more for the 88. And they may keep the SV1 in the line too, at its lower price point. So then the Grandstage ends up falling just about exactly halfway between the SV1 and the Kronos, and you could make the argument that, functionally, that sounds about right too. (Though we still need to get a bit more detail about the exact functionality of the Grandstage.)
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#2829950 - 01/21/17 08:43 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: burningbusch]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: burningbusch
Somethings I recall from the presentation.

I believe it was said there are four inserts FXs available. So yes it would appear that they're built into the preset as there are no specific controls for modulation FXs, etc. Assume SW#1/2 would turn these on/off with other controllers for speed/depth.

Though if the actual Kronos engines are inside, it's not inconceivable that parameters like this could be edited via an iPad app or computer-based editor. I also wonder about to what extent they have provided editing functions onboard, for things that have no other obvious control. I mean, if there's a CX3 engine in there, presumably there's an edit screen that allows you to adjust the 9 drawbar levels...?

Originally Posted By: burningbusch
Heard the CX3 distortion has been improved.

Improvements in the sound of the overdrive could also benefit the EPs. I'm not sure how much difference it actually made, but one of the few SV1 features that has disappeared is the tube. So if they have a good tube-sounding circuit/algorithm in there, there could be multiple benefits.
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#2829951 - 01/21/17 08:43 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: burningbusch]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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I have played the Kronos 88 - many times in shop. So I do know the RH3. It's just ok - as mentioned I found it sluggish not like my acoustic (in sig) and not like an ES8 or CP4. I'd be more inclined to check these engines out on the synth action VOX if it ever comes to fruition.

If they do make the VOX how do you guys feel about them not making the keys waterfall and going with these touch pad drawbars rather than pulls?

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#2829956 - 01/21/17 08:56 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
burningbusch Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: burningbusch
Somethings I recall from the presentation.

I believe it was said there are four inserts FXs available. So yes it would appear that they're built into the preset as there are no specific controls for modulation FXs, etc. Assume SW#1/2 would turn these on/off with other controllers for speed/depth.

Though if the actual Kronos engines are inside, it's not inconceivable that parameters like this could be edited via an iPad app or computer-based editor. I also wonder about to what extent they have provided editing functions onboard, for things that have no other obvious control. I mean, if there's a CX3 engine in there, presumably there's an edit screen that allows you to adjust the 9 drawbar levels...?

Originally Posted By: burningbusch
Heard the CX3 distortion has been improved.

Improvements in the sound of the overdrive could also benefit the EPs. I'm not sure how much difference it actually made, but one of the few SV1 features that has disappeared is the tube. So if they have a good tube-sounding circuit/algorithm in there, there could be multiple benefits.


You have to assume there will be an editor. Hopefully it might allow loading of Kronos programs because of the high degree of compatibility.

There is overdrive built into the CX3 engine. It went through a significant improvement with the Kronos updates allowing you to select between the harsher original and newer overdrive. All that was mention was the CX3. The overdrive found in the EP-1 generally comes from the preamp sims in that engine (unless you add a OD/distortion FX). I saw no mention of the NuTube technology in the GS and am wondering if the latest Vox prototype still has that label, I can't recall. That would be the interesting technology, IMO.

Busch.

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#2829957 - 01/21/17 08:57 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
If they do make the VOX how do you guys feel about them not making the keys waterfall and going with these touch pad drawbars rather than pulls?

I won't know for sure until I try it, but conceptually, I kind of like the idea of touch strips, because they will always be in the "right" place when you call up different presets (yet still with the kind of direct control that you don't get from Nord's drawbuttons).

I also don't care too much about waterfall. Some "real" Hammonds didn't have them, and I'm among those who felt that the curved lip 1st generation digital CX3 felt better to play than the later waterfall version, and I'm not a big fan of Nord's waterfall because the keys are a bit too tightly spring for my taste. Waterfall is just one piece of the puzzle to me, and not the most important one. What's most important is that it feels great, and there's no "spec" for that.
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#2829960 - 01/21/17 09:13 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
burningbusch Offline
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The LS action is definitely light but I didn't find it springy. It felt different than the Kronos 61. Still smooth. There were no headphones on the LS so I couldn't determine how much effort it takes to smash into MIDI vel 127.

Busch.

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#2829964 - 01/21/17 09:37 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: burningbusch]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: vanderSchoot
So can we 'hear' the thing now ? The looks are known.........now i want to hear the thing smile

Well Busch says it sounds like the Kronos... which, even if there are some differences, probably tells you more about what it sounds like than you'd be able to tell from a NAMM video on youtube. ;-) But here you go, and not bad... he demonstrates a good variety of sounds, and it's a "big stage" demo so at least we're not hearing it on the expo floor surrounded by all kinds of other noises!

https://www.facebook.com/kcs.news/videos/10154163546195143/

This also confirms what Busch said earlier...

The seven engines are:
SGX-2
EP-1
CX-3
HD-1
AL-1
Vox Organ
Farfisa Organ

And there is definitely a bunch of on-board editability beyond the obvious front panel controls, as he talked about, for the SGX-2 engine, the ability to adjust things like string resonance, mechanical noise, etc., and the ability to adjust the various tabs and such on the vox/farfisa models.

Other tidbits:
64 gigabyte storage
XLR outs
SST ("patch remain") functionality
new upright piano
new electric grand
new FM piano sounds

(maybe the new sounds also make it into a Kronos update?)

and from the other posted videos, I noticed
Built-in power supply (no wall wart)
USB A and B (making me hopeful it may directly support things like a NanoKontrol, as the Kronos does)



Edited by AnotherScott (01/21/17 10:02 AM)
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#2830012 - 01/21/17 01:21 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
Ulf Offline
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Registered: 10/23/14
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

XLR outs
SST ("patch remain") functionality
...
Built-in power supply (no wall wart)


Well, well, a big THANK YOU, Korg!
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#2830018 - 01/21/17 01:56 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: Ulf]
zephonic Online   content
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I do hope they change the name though...

They should bring back the SG nomenclature. Because Kenny Kirkland. rockit
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#2830019 - 01/21/17 01:57 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: Ulf]
Alexander Nagel Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

XLR outs


... with built-in ground-lift switch!!!!
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#2830085 - 01/21/17 08:51 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: EscapeRocks]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: EscapeRocks


I miss those days of flat topped boards that you could place your top board directly on.


+1 !

A.C.
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#2830095 - 01/22/17 12:22 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
vanderSchoot Offline
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Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 537
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: vanderSchoot
So can we 'hear' the thing now ? The looks are known.........now i want to hear the thing smile

Well Busch says it sounds like the Kronos... which, even if there are some differences, probably tells you more about what it sounds like than you'd be able to tell from a NAMM video on youtube. ;-) But here you go, and not bad... he demonstrates a good variety of sounds, and it's a "big stage" demo so at least we're not hearing it on the expo floor surrounded by all kinds of other noises!

https://www.facebook.com/kcs.news/videos/10154163546195143/

This also confirms what Busch said earlier...

The seven engines are:
SGX-2
EP-1
CX-3
HD-1
AL-1
Vox Organ
Farfisa Organ

And there is definitely a bunch of on-board editability beyond the obvious front panel controls, as he talked about, for the SGX-2 engine, the ability to adjust things like string resonance, mechanical noise, etc., and the ability to adjust the various tabs and such on the vox/farfisa models.

Other tidbits:
64 gigabyte storage
XLR outs
SST ("patch remain") functionality
new upright piano
new electric grand
new FM piano sounds

(maybe the new sounds also make it into a Kronos update?)

and from the other posted videos, I noticed
Built-in power supply (no wall wart)
USB A and B (making me hopeful it may directly support things like a NanoKontrol, as the Kronos does)


Thanks !! That's a lot of 'stage piano' (64GB) !! Great specs, althaugh they don't mean everything,......

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#2830147 - 01/22/17 09:54 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: vanderSchoot]
AnotherScott Offline
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The SV1 had a "local off" button which was in theory a handy shortcut for triggering an external source, though it was kind of "half implemented" in that there was no similarly quick way to turn off the MIDI out if you then *only* wanted to hear the internal sound. On a Kronos, you can do this with Combis that give you whatever combination you want of internal and external sounds. I wonder whether the editing on the Grandstage allows you to create front panel user presets that do or do not transmit MIDI (perhaps also including what channel that particular preset will transmit on, and maybe even a program change).

There was also the question earlier about whether you could import Kronos sounds into it (if they were based on the engines the two keyboards have in common). As an extension of that, I wonder about the possibility of loading custom samples (which its HD1 engine supports). Although it doesn't have the sampling hardware itself as the Kronos does, it does have that 64 GB storage capacity, and if it isn't full up, it would be cool to be able to bring in your own samples via computer/USB.
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#2830584 - 01/23/17 09:40 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
Bachus Offline
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The Korg grand stage video demo
30 minutes from NAMM

http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/15/korg-grand-stage
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#2830597 - 01/23/17 11:49 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: Bachus]
niacin Offline
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I love my Korg SV-1. Except for the bulk. And the difficulty of putting another keyboard on top of it. And the lack of a pitch wheel. So if they bring this out under $2k I'm pretty much sold. True, as a solo piano it has no stage presence: I did actually laugh when I read the 'Grandstage' name and then saw Jack Hotop sitting behind this tiny keyboard. It ain't grand, and it has absolutely no stage presence. But this with a Mojo-61 above it would be a killer live rig. IMHO.
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#2830629 - 01/24/17 06:07 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: Bachus]
HAM&EGZ Offline
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Originally Posted By: Bachus
The Korg grand stage video demo
30 minutes from NAMM

http://keyszone.boards.net/thread/15/korg-grand-stage


And speaking of prototype, did you catch the patch change glitch early on ? SV1 heritage.. laugh

Other than that, sounded good from the recording


Edited by HAM&EGZ (01/24/17 06:08 AM)
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#2830646 - 01/24/17 07:42 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: niacin]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: niacin
I love my Korg SV-1. Except for the bulk. And the difficulty of putting another keyboard on top of it. And the lack of a pitch wheel.

...and the limitation of just a single bank of 8 quick preset buttons
...and the lack of a display that shows you the name of the selected sound
...and the very limited split functionality
and some other quibbles.

So yeah, the Grandstage seems to address a whole lot, plus provide a ton of other sounds. You lose some real-time effect controls, though honestly, I wouldn't miss those so much. My big question will be about the EP sounds... the SV1 has a character of its own, I'll be curious to see if you can get those sounds out of the Grandstage. Even with the nice Kronos based EPs, I could see missing the particular EP of the SV1 if it's not there.
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#2830686 - 01/24/17 09:53 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
J. Dan Offline
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Maybe I missed it, but any idea of price range yet? I have a friend who is currently using the krome but was thinking of switching to the SV-1 due to the ease of user interface live. Problem is that it would be missing some of the sounds needed compared to krome. Seems like this would be perfect for her, but guessing maybe out of her budget....hard to say. She plays in a Fleetwood Mac tribute.
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#2830701 - 01/24/17 10:55 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
FunkKeyStuff Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
My big question will be about the EP sounds... the SV1 has a character of its own, I'll be curious to see if you can get those sounds out of the Grandstage. Even with the nice Kronos based EPs, I could see missing the particular EP of the SV1 if it's not there.


This is my feeling as well. The Wurli on the SV1 had a character that the Kronos couldn't match. I suspect the tube was a big part of it, so while I hope the new board captures it, I'm not holding my breath. Then again, since no other hardware board does either, this might end up being a contender for me, depending on the details.
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#2830703 - 01/24/17 11:03 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: FunkKeyStuff]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/05/07
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Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
My big question will be about the EP sounds... the SV1 has a character of its own, I'll be curious to see if you can get those sounds out of the Grandstage. Even with the nice Kronos based EPs, I could see missing the particular EP of the SV1 if it's not there.


This is my feeling as well. The Wurli on the SV1 had a character that the Kronos couldn't match. I suspect the tube was a big part of it, so while I hope the new board captures it, I'm not holding my breath. Then again, since no other hardware board does either, this might end up being a contender for me, depending on the details.


I had only a 3 gig experience with the Kronos 73 and only playing piano in a jazz quartet context - I didn't play any EPs on the Kronos then.

I owned two SV1s and thought the Wurli and Rhodes were the best out of any keyboard I've used. Although there's nothing wrong - at least for me- with the ones on the CP4. I did feel the SV1 had that special vibe in that area more then the CP4.

I sure hope they tweak the design a bit. The thing is nowhere as cool looking as the SV1 imo.


Edited by Dave Ferris (01/24/17 11:11 AM)
Edit Reason: I only own 1 SUV but I did own 2 SV1s…lol
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#2830834 - 01/24/17 11:12 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: FunkKeyStuff]
niacin Offline
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Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
My big question will be about the EP sounds... the SV1 has a character of its own, I'll be curious to see if you can get those sounds out of the Grandstage. Even with the nice Kronos based EPs, I could see missing the particular EP of the SV1 if it's not there.


This is my feeling as well. The Wurli on the SV1 had a character that the Kronos couldn't match. I suspect the tube was a big part of it, so while I hope the new board captures it, I'm not holding my breath. Then again, since no other hardware board does either, this might end up being a contender for me, depending on the details.


I had the same experience playing a Kronos and the SV-1. It wasn't the tube though, the wurli and Rhodes sounds I love in the SV-1 don't have the tube on - the amp sims do just great. I didn't spend enough time with the Kronos to know if these sounds could be duplicated on it (and therefore on the Grandstage), but I've never heard any Kronos eps with the character of those in the SV-1.

Yeh the SV-1 looks absolutely killer, but hidden under a clonewheel my care factor is gonna be pretty much zero.
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#2830986 - 01/25/17 01:42 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: niacin]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: niacin
I had the same experience playing a Kronos and the SV-1. It wasn't the tube though, the wurli and Rhodes sounds I love in the SV-1 don't have the tube on - the amp sims do just great.

I am unclear myself about how much difference the tube makes (or in which instances it makes more of a difference), but AFAIK, the tube is always engaged, it's impossible to turn it off or bypass it. Though you also make a good point about the amp simulations... maybe someone here knows for sure, but I don't think the Kronos includes the same amp modeling functionality that's in the SV1, and so that could also be an open question in terms of the Grandstage.


Edited by AnotherScott (01/25/17 01:51 PM)
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#2830990 - 01/25/17 01:58 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
jerrythek Offline
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Registered: 04/19/04
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The sound engine in the SV-1 is different than the Kronos or the Grandstage. The SV-1 was not the EP-1 technology, it is based purely on PCM samples, but the engine is more akin to the Pa engine and not the HD-1.

And at least from the SV-1 vs. Kronos perspective the sample data is not the same. I do not know anything about the Grandstage development background.

But I don't think you'll be able to make exact comparisons between the model's sounds, and it is not just due to effects/the tube.

Regards,

Jerry

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#2831017 - 01/25/17 03:12 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: jerrythek]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: jerrythek
The sound engine in the SV-1 is different than the Kronos or the Grandstage. The SV-1 was not the EP-1 technology, it is based purely on PCM samples, but the engine is more akin to the Pa engine and not the HD-1.

And at least from the SV-1 vs. Kronos perspective the sample data is not the same. I do not know anything about the Grandstage development background.

But I don't think you'll be able to make exact comparisons between the model's sounds, and it is not just due to effects/the tube.

I understand the modeling EP1 engine of the Kronos and Grandstage is completely different from the strictly PCM sample-based SV1, and it's an interesting point that even the PCM sample-based HD1 engine is substantially different from what was in the SV1. Still, though, whether the Kronos (or Grandstage) HD1 sample set includes the sample data of the SV1 or not, at least in theory, there's no reason it can't. And the Kronos does include some HD1-based EP sounds in addition to its EP1 sounds. (Whether they use any of the same samples as are in the SV1, no clue.)

There is a marketing axiom that the easiest customer to sell to is one who has bought from you before. If Korg wants to make it as easy as possible for SV1 owners to want to upgrade to a Grandstage, I think it would be smart of them to include a bank of sounds that is as close as possible to the stock sounds of the SV1, so people can upgrade without feeling they'd necessarily be losing sounds that they've come to really like. Assuming that the Grandstage is actually capable of the same sounds. I mean, I don't see any reason they could not put the same PCM samples into the Grandstage, but whether the amp simulation and such can be duplicated, who knows. (And I guess there's also the variable of where they intend to price the Grandstage vis-a-vis the SV1 and whether they intend to keep the SV1 in the line, those things could affect marketing strategy too.)
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#2831050 - 01/25/17 06:03 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: burningbusch]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Piano Man Chuck has his hands on a decent video from the prototype demo...



The video isn't focusing well - no big deal... but the acoustic pianos aren't making me grin... can't tell too much, maybe the amplification is fair, or more likely the phone mic is getting some weird reflections, it's all a bit muffled. Although a lot of you guys have said the Kronos pianos aren't mind blowing without tweaking the presets. But from this early listen, he's getting shit for dynamic expression off the action (or the audio has been highly compressed, or he's just banging away). I can't tell. If you jump in the video from Italian to German to Japanese - it all sounds very similar. The upright sounds unique. The acoustic bass split sounds like mud. I'm going to chalk it up to it just being a shit audio capture on this video. Hopefully we get something legit from Korg soon. But then again, I was really psyched when the SV-1 came out and when I got to play it the action was a downer, many of the sounds were average, although I loved the user interface. Honestly, I was thinking even back then, "why didn't they give it a few engines from the Kronos?", and now they have and maybe they've refined the user interface. One thing is for sure, there is a boatload of sound types in this prototype - especially the synth stuff which one would expect from KORG. Now that I think about it, I think Busch is right, we may very well be seeing a very similar (sound engine wise) instrument to what we might expect in the VOX. I'll keep an open mind - itching to play the final products.
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#2831057 - 01/25/17 06:36 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
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Here's a better quality version of that video:

https://www.facebook.com/Kronoshaven/videos/1216103175109932/

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I was really psyched when the SV-1 came out...Honestly, I was thinking even back then, "why didn't they give it a few engines from the Kronos?",

Maybe because the Kronos wasn't out yet. ;-) (SV1 came out in 2009, Kronos in 2011.) SV1 was also a much less expensive board than the Kronos would turn out to be (and far less expensive than the contemporary OASYS).
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#2831071 - 01/25/17 07:21 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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That's true, I first played the SV-1 at NAMM 2010, same day I played the CP1 which played and sounded pretty darn good in comparison, but was a totally different vibe.

On Kronos engines in the SV-1, you totally resequenced and jogged my memory - I've often thought looking at the SV-1, which is still available, that it was lacking- post Kronos - price point taken into consideration. But thankfully now, we are getting some trickle down tech. Will they price Grandstage replacing SV-1? Or put it up against CP4 or RD-2000?

Thanks for link to this shoot of the same presentation. Noticeably better.
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#2831074 - 01/25/17 07:40 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Will they price Grandstage replacing SV-1? Or put it up against CP4 or RD-2000?

My earlier post in this thread predicted $2400-$2500 for the 73... and on that facebook page I just linked to for the better video, I just saw "Rumor says it would be around 2500" - I assume I didn't start that rumor. ;-)
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#2831075 - 01/25/17 07:43 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Yeah, I was guessing $2400 myself, but dreaming $1999.99.
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#2831108 - 01/25/17 10:38 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: ElmerJFudd]
niacin Offline
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Yeah, I was guessing $2400 myself, but dreaming $1999.99.


If the retail for the 88 is $2500 the street price for the 73 should come in a little under $2k. Fingers crossed.
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#2831468 - 01/27/17 08:21 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: niacin]
burningbusch Offline
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Busch.

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#2831520 - 01/27/17 12:09 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: ElmerJFudd]
ProfD Offline
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IMO, the SV-1 has a better sound, feel and vibe than the Kronos especially when it comes EPs.

So, I'm definitely curious to see and hear if the Grandstage can provide the SV-1 feel and vibe along with some Kronos functionality. That would be great.

I hope the Grandstage does not come aKross as a Krome or Kronos-lite in a digital piano. laugh cool
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#2831556 - 01/27/17 02:50 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: niacin]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: niacin
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Yeah, I was guessing $2400 myself, but dreaming $1999.99.


If the retail for the 88 is $2500 the street price for the 73 should come in a little under $2k. Fingers crossed.

I was talking about the 73. Are we even sure yet that there will definitely be an 88? Regardless, the price difference between the 73 and 88 boards with RH3 action is only $200 on the SV1, $300 on the Kronos (which also includes aftertouch).
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#2831603 - 01/27/17 08:27 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
niacin Offline
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Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: niacin
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Yeah, I was guessing $2400 myself, but dreaming $1999.99.


If the retail for the 88 is $2500 the street price for the 73 should come in a little under $2k. Fingers crossed.

I was talking about the 73. Are we even sure yet that there will definitely be an 88? Regardless, the price difference between the 73 and 88 boards with RH3 action is only $200 on the SV1, $300 on the Kronos (which also includes aftertouch).


If the competition is say Roland's RD2000, listed at Sweetwater for $2500, and Yamaha's CP4, listed for $2300, then I would think the 88 would want to come in at certainly no more probably a little less, given most of us would rate the piano sounds and action of both the RD2000 and the CP4 as better than the Kronos. So I'm still fairly hopeful of a 73 at a street price under $2k. No idea of a release date yet though?
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#2831605 - 01/27/17 08:37 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: niacin]
burningbusch Offline
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I have no idea on the price. If all you're gonna do all night is play AP sounds, you know, get a CP-4.

But, if you can have all these engines, which no one else has in this range, and let's say you can load up your own samples and/or those from the Korg Web Store into the HD-1 (64GB SSD). Then this nice, compact keyboard I think has a LOT to offer.

Korg is typically value conscious.

Busch.

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#2831613 - 01/27/17 09:10 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: burningbusch]
niacin Offline
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sure, IF I can load my own samples, load maybe Scarbee, yeh awesome, but there's no indication of this, and the Roland has their 'supernatural' sound engines including the V-piano, the VK organ etc. But hey, I'm not looking to argue, we're all just waiting for more details, release date, and pricing. The RD2000, otoh, has already landed.
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#2831664 - 01/28/17 07:13 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: niacin]
justin_havu Offline
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Looks interesting, but the RH3 action isn't my cup of tea; a bit too heavy and sluggish at times. I was kinda hoping they would develop a new action, maybe with escapement like on the RD2000 and CP4.
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#2831672 - 01/28/17 07:38 AM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: niacin]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: niacin
[quote=AnotherScott]If the competition is say Roland's RD2000, listed at Sweetwater for $2500, and Yamaha's CP4, listed for $2300, then I would think the 88 would want to come in at certainly no more probably a little less, given most of us would rate the piano sounds and action of both the RD2000 and the CP4 as better than the Kronos. So I'm still fairly hopeful of a 73 at a street price under $2k.

As I alluded to earlier, I think you could also look at the Grandstage as competitive with the Nord Piano 3 and ElectroHP, both selling for $3k (even despite less than top-of-line actions), which might give them a little more upside latitude. Its travel weight and whether there is any way to load new/custom samples into its 64 gb storage could be a big variable here, those are unknowns. But if GS ends up without significant benefits in those areas, then yeah, the boards you mentioned would seem to mark about the top price of the remaining competition.

On paper, the RD2000 is the closer competitor than the Yamaha. Roland will have something akin to its piano, EP, tonewheel, rompler engines (though, as far as we've seen so far, no VA synth) and I think a different but still appealing ergonomic interface. To that, add better action and better MIDI controller functionality, though I think we can assume higher travel weight. Roland arguably has the edge in piano sound, Korg more likely even or better in the rest. As for Yamaha, CP4 lacks everything the Roland lacks, while in addition lacking the tonewheel, ergonomic, and MIDI advantages, but we'll see about travel weight. For that matter, there's also the CP40, which has most of what a CP4 has, lower travel weight, and an action that is probably closer to the Korg's RH3.
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#2838768 - 02/28/17 01:16 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: jerrythek]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: jerrythek
The sound engine in the SV-1...is more akin to the Pa engine and not the HD-1.

I hadn't thought about this earlier, but is the PA engine (or the variation of it that's in the SV1) capable of some things that the HD1 engine is not? That would certainly interfere with the ability to replicate the SV1 sounds through the HD1 engine. I think I had just assumed that the Kronos' HD1 would be Korg's top-of-the-line sample playback engine, and that it therefore could do anything any of them could, but I realized that (a) I don't actually know if AL1 is indeed Korg's most capable sample engine, and (b) even if it is, there could still be certain things it can't do that "lesser" implementations could.

Having been playing more with my SV1 and Kronos, I did start to wish I could have some of those SV1 EPs in the Kronos, and I got the idea that maybe I'd use something like SampleRobot to get them in there. I might play with that, I think it might at least do a decent job at getting the basic sounds. But I like some of the amp simulation sounds too, and there is a pretty loud hiss when using those. If you set all your gains right, it's not too objectionable in a live context, but I notices that it seems to be constant... i.e. the same level wither you play a single note or a 5 note chord. I'm afraid that if I sampled that into the Kronos, since that hiss would be on each individual note, I'd end up with 5x the noise when I played a 5-note chord!
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#2838982 - 03/01/17 03:25 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
jerrythek Offline
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Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 919
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: jerrythek
The sound engine in the SV-1...is more akin to the Pa engine and not the HD-1.

I hadn't thought about this earlier, but is the PA engine (or the variation of it that's in the SV1) capable of some things that the HD1 engine is not? That would certainly interfere with the ability to replicate the SV1 sounds through the HD1 engine. I think I had just assumed that the Kronos' HD1 would be Korg's top-of-the-line sample playback engine, and that it therefore could do anything any of them could, but I realized that (a) I don't actually know if HD1 is indeed Korg's most capable sample engine, and (b) even if it is, there could still be certain things it can't do that "lesser" implementations could.


There is a fundamental difference in their designs... in the Pa Series each oscillator has it's own filter, amp, LFO, envelopes etc. So an oscillator is a complete voice. And you can use from 1 up to 24 (if I am remembering correctly). So you can seriously tailor the sound and response of small elements like key-off noise, and such.

The Korg Japan voice stacks many waveforms into dual single "voice" architectures, so while velocity splits and even some layering is possible, they all then share the same filter, amp, LFO and envelope attributes.

The Pa voice can trigger an oscillator based on certain "rules", like legato versus separated note play. Here is the listing from one of the Pa instrument's manual:

Mode
This is the trigger that allows the selected Oscillator to play.

Normal - The Oscillator always plays when a key is pressed (unless the “OSC Off when Sound Controllers are On” parameter is checked).

Legato - The Oscillator only plays when the note is played ‘legato’. The delay and pitch interval from the previous note are also to be considered, as set in the Sound > Basic page (see “Legato as OSC Trigger” above).

Staccato - The Oscillator only plays when the note is NOT played legato (it is the opposite of the above choice).

Sound Controller 1 - The Oscillator only plays after a switch or foot- switch programmed as the Sound Controller 1 has been pressed. Press and release it, and the next note will also trigger the selected Oscillator. If you keep it pressed, the Oscillator will continue to be triggered until you release the controller.

Hint: This (like the following Sound Controllers) is especially useful to enable a different nuance to the following note(s).

Sound Controller 2- As the above, but with a switch or footswitch programmed as the Sound Controller 2.

Sound Controller Y+ - As the above, but with the Joystick, assigned as the Sound Controller, pushed at least half-way forward (value 64). The controller is turned off when the Joystick is released. This control is equivalent to a CC#01 (Modulation) Control Change message.

Sound Controller Y- As the above, but with the Joystick, assigned as the Sound Controller, pulled at least half-way back (value 64). The controller is turned off when the Joystick is released. This control is equivalent to a CC#02 (Breath Controller) Control Change message.

Cycle 1 - All Oscillators with this same trigger mode assigned will play in cycle. For example, if Oscillators 1, 2 and 4 are assigned the Cycle 1 trigger mode, the following note will trigger Oscillator 1, then 2, then 4, then1 again.

Hint: This is especially useful to trigger different sound nuances or create vector-like sound sequences.

Cycle 2 - As the above, for use with a different (and parallel) group of Oscillators. Having two Cycle Trigger Modes allows for cycling stereo multisamples.

Random - As the above, but with a random selection of Oscillators within the assigned group.

After Touch Trigger On - The Oscillator starts playing when an After Touch message with a value of at least 90 is received. The Velocity value is the same as the latest Note On message. The Oscillator will stop playing when the After Touch value falls back to zero.

Hint: This (like the following Triggers) is especially useful to trigger harmonics or growls when a note is already playing.

Y+ Trigger On - As the above, but with the Joystick, assigned as the Sound Controller, pushed at least half-way forward (value 64). The controller is turned off when the Joystick is released. This control is equivalent to a CC#01 (Modulation) Control Change message.

Y- Trigger On - As the above, but with the Joystick, assigned as the Sound Controller, pulled at least half-way back (value 64). The controller is turned off when the Joystick is released. This control is equivalent to a CC#02 (Breath Controller) Control Change message.

Legato Up - Like Legato, but is only activated when the second note is out of the “Max Range” value and it is higher than the first one.

Legato Down - Like Legato, but is only activated when the second note is out of the “Max Range” value and it is lower than the first one.

Delay
This parameter sets a delay time from the note-on to the real beginning of the sound. With a setting of KeyOff, the sound will begin when note-off occurs. This is useful to create sounds such as the “click” that is heard when a harpsichord note is released. In this case, set the “Sustain” parameter to 0.

0...5000ms - Delay time in milliseconds.

Key Off - The sound will begin when the note is released. The note velocity is read from the Key On Velocity.

Key Release - The sound will begin when the note is released. The note velocity is read from the Key Off Velocity.

Natural Release - The sound will begin when the note is released. The note starts from the current volume of the sound. If the sound’s volume is already at zero, this oscillator is not retriggered.

Now, note that in the Korg Japan voice design, some of these behaviors occur automatically (like the volume response of some release modes), but they are not parameter-ized and under your control.

I shared all this just to say that the Korg Italy design is very advanced/capable, and the Pa products use this for their Defined Nuance control for sounds, and the SV-1 has that capability. I can't say it was used a lot, but we did use some. Most important is the "full-voice per oscillator" aspect of the design.

I know, long tangent, but it's interesting stuff.

Cheers!

Jerry

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#2839034 - 03/01/17 06:56 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: jerrythek]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
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Originally Posted By: jerrythek
I shared all this just to say that the Korg Italy design is very advanced/capable, and the Pa products use this for their Defined Nuance control for sounds, and the SV-1 has that capability. I can't say it was used a lot, but we did use some. Most important is the "full-voice per oscillator" aspect of the design.

I know, long tangent, but it's interesting stuff.

Yes, very interesting, thanks for sharing!

And now that you mention it, I do remember those kinds of limitations in HD1, where (IIRC) if you wanted to do your own piano samples, you could not do proper string resonance, because HD1 did not have the ability to employ different samples based on whether the pedal was up or down. (Maybe by layering the samples separately in a Combi?) So that would be an example of a way HD1 could not do what the SV1 does (though of course the Kronos implements that particular functionality elsewhere, in SGX1/2).

The PA models' spec sheets say they use an EDS engine. IIRC, EDS (or some variation) is what's in M3, M50, Microstation, Kross, Krome--models "beneath" the Kronos--so I was thinking that those PA models would similarly be "downscale" from what was in the Kronos (apart from their arranger functionality, obviously). But I'd never looked at these things in that kind of detail, I just assumed HD1>EDS. It sounds like--while of course the 9-engine complement of the Kronos as a whole gives you a lot more than EDS alone--the HD1 engine itself is not so much "better" than EDS as it is different, better in some ways, not as good in others, yes? A "different set" rather than a superset. And then more specifically, getting back to those key differentiators of "each oscillator has it's own filter, amp, LFO, envelopes etc" and "The Pa voice can trigger an oscillator based on certain 'rules'" - does the EDS-based M3 have these functionalities as well? Or, even though based on the same EDS engine, are these capabilities specific to the PA series? (Perhaps having something to do with the Defined Nuance Control you mentioned and the "RX (Real eXperience)" features, which I only found explained in pretty vague terms?)
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#2839177 - 03/02/17 12:50 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
jerrythek Offline
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Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 919
Unfortunately the spec sheet-type info doesn't always tell the story of the synthesis engine. One the one hand, they're all just sample-playback with a subtractive synthesis engine, right? So the technology isn't all that different between various models...

But the actual architecture changes, of course, and in the usual Korg lineage each generation just builds on the previous (M1, to T Series, to O1/W to Trinity, to Triton, and so on).

But the Italian group rethought that architecture to suit their wants/needs/whatever, so their voice really is different. But the company was slow to acknowledge the differences. It seems only with the Pa4X have they finally renamed to synthesis engine to be EDS-X (Enhanced Definition Synthesis-eXpanded). So you are right to have been confused...

And yes, for the Kronos the Korg group chose to make a dedicated engine for piano emulation so they could really focus on the specific needs of emulating that instrument. Smart.

Regards,

Jerry

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#2839181 - 03/02/17 01:12 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: jerrythek]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 10199
Originally Posted By: jerrythek
the Italian group rethought that architecture to suit their wants/needs/whatever, so their voice really is different. But the company was slow to acknowledge the differences. It seems only with the Pa4X have they finally renamed to synthesis engine to be EDS-X (Enhanced Definition Synthesis-eXpanded). So you are right to have been confused...

Thanks for all the info, but here's something I'm still confused about... the Krome is said to have an EDS-X engine, though (AFAIK) that model comes from the Japanese rather than Italian lineage. So did they put the "finally renamed" Italian PA synth engine into the Krome? Or despite sharing the EDS-X nomenclature, is the Krome still an extension of the earlier Japanese EDS model, and those other "Korg Italy" attributes we discussed ("each oscillator has it's own filter, amp, LFO, envelopes etc" and "The Pa voice can trigger an oscillator based on certain 'rules'") remain only in the version of EDS-X that is used in the PA models?
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#2839190 - 03/02/17 02:01 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: AnotherScott]
jerrythek Offline
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Registered: 04/19/04
Posts: 919
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

Thanks for all the info, but here's something I'm still confused about... the Krome is said to have an EDS-X engine, though (AFAIK) that model comes from the Japanese rather than Italian lineage. So did they put the "finally renamed" Italian PA synth engine into the Krome? Or despite sharing the EDS-X nomenclature, is the Krome still an extension of the earlier Japanese EDS model, and those other "Korg Italy" attributes we discussed ("each oscillator has it's own filter, amp, LFO, envelopes etc" and "The Pa voice can trigger an oscillator based on certain 'rules'") remain only in the version of EDS-X that is used in the PA models?


Sigh... I don't know what they're thinking these days... I left at the end of 2010. But I just was programming a Krome for someone here where I live, and it is NOT the Italian engine. It's still the EDS like the M3.

idk

Jerry

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#2856189 - 05/19/17 03:23 PM Re: Korg Grandstage [Re: jerrythek]
George88 Offline
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Registered: 04/13/12
Posts: 617
Anyone have any news on this board?
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