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#2829916 - 01/21/17 05:23 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: mate stubb]
JohnDoe Offline
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Registered: 01/25/09
Posts: 93
Loc: Sweden
True dat. For years I played thru a pair of small Peavey 3 way cabinets with a 150W amp built into each. They sounded really great, with a 12" woofer, a 6" cone midrange and a tweeter. [/quote]

Do you recall the name of those Peavey speakers?

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#2829935 - 01/21/17 07:23 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: sleepngbear]
DanL Offline
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Registered: 09/22/05
Posts: 3819
Loc: DE
Originally Posted By: sleepngbear


Just curious, and not to hijack, but why wouldn't you want the vocals to come out as 'spacially' as the keys? The last few times I gigged with my SS3, I intentionally added a tiny bit extra stereo reverb to the vocal channel just so the little feller could do its thing. Small venues, so the volume was very moderate, and the effect wasn't huge, but I was very happy with the results. Although I am playing solo, so maybe your particular application has different needs?


It didn't work for me. Best placement of the SS3 is on the floor at a distance away right? The vocals didn't cut that way.

Solo act or duo type setting it would work but not in the 5+ piece band situations that I was using it in.
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#2829953 - 01/21/17 08:48 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: DanL]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: DanL
Originally Posted By: sleepngbear


Just curious, and not to hijack, but why wouldn't you want the vocals to come out as 'spacially' as the keys? The last few times I gigged with my SS3, I intentionally added a tiny bit extra stereo reverb to the vocal channel just so the little feller could do its thing. Small venues, so the volume was very moderate, and the effect wasn't huge, but I was very happy with the results. Although I am playing solo, so maybe your particular application has different needs?


It didn't work for me. Best placement of the SS3 is on the floor at a distance away right? The vocals didn't cut that way.

Solo act or duo type setting it would work but not in the 5+ piece band situations that I was using it in.

Makes sense, especially if you're looking for the audience to hear the spacious effect of the Spacestation, yet your need to hear vocals is only as a stage monitor. In that case, the audience would probably need a different balance of keys and vocal than what you would need for yourself, especially if you're singing more backup than lead.
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#2829963 - 01/21/17 09:35 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: JohnDoe]
mate stubb Offline
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Originally Posted By: JohnDoe

Do you recall the name of those Peavey speakers?


Prosys 112. The small ones (they later made them larger and more clunky.)

I am a big fan of cone midrange.

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#2830087 - 01/21/17 09:04 PM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: mate stubb]
TimA Offline
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Registered: 10/10/14
Posts: 91
Loc: Nuevo Mejico
I kinda see the ssv3 as an Apache helicopter and the XL more like an A10 Thunderbolt.... just sayin'
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#2830103 - 01/22/17 04:01 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: TimA]
J. Dan Offline
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XL is getting into the range where I would actually consider switching from mono to stereo. The question still remains if it would make for a suitable stage monitor for the mono sources like my vocal. Basically, I'm ok with my instrument being spread around as folks can put less in their own monitor, but I want the rest of my mix (vocals, etc) to be heard by just me so we have control of our onstage monitor mix. It's a tough call.
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#2830104 - 01/22/17 04:07 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: J. Dan]
FunkKeyStuff Offline
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Posts: 1800
I can't believe no one has addressed this yet, but can it handle left-hand organ bass without a sub woofer?
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#2830142 - 01/22/17 09:35 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: FunkKeyStuff]
cedar Offline
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Registered: 10/04/14
Posts: 772
Loc: New York
Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
I can't believe no one has addressed this yet, but can it handle left-hand organ bass without a sub woofer?


It would be great to get a side by side comparison of this new amp compared to the SSv3 plus Behringer {with and without small mixer].

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#2830156 - 01/22/17 10:26 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: FunkKeyStuff]
cphollis Offline
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Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 1723
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
I can't believe no one has addressed this yet, but can it handle left-hand organ bass without a sub woofer?


Given that it appears that Aspen is in early pre-production, I would guess it would be several months before anyone can authoritatively answer that question.

On paper, though, it looks like a "yes" -- 12" speaker, plenty of watts. Unless you're an 18" kind of guy smile
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#2830158 - 01/22/17 10:30 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: cphollis]
AnotherScott Offline
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Well, the Leslie 122 had a 15" woofer...
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#2830223 - 01/22/17 03:20 PM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: Sam Mullins]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Sam Mullins
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott

I suppose you could just velcro a very small mixer to the V3 itself.


Sure...the thought has crossed my mind. But I would still miss the monitor input feature.

I think you could do what you want with the Alesis Multimix 8. Probably a little bigger than you'd like to velcro to a SS (though it would fit).
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#2830278 - 01/22/17 06:52 PM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: AnotherScott]
cphollis Offline
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Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 1723
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Well, the Leslie 122 had a 15" woofer...


True, but not a DSP.
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#2830472 - 01/23/17 02:58 PM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: AnotherScott]
elseif Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/15
Posts: 36
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Well, the Leslie 122 had a 15" woofer...
though the hole in the baffle is 12.5" diameter. roll

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#2830594 - 01/23/17 11:29 PM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: elseif]
dsetto Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/28/15
Posts: 470
XL seems great. Thanks for making it, Aspen.

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#2830596 - 01/23/17 11:39 PM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: Al Coda]
Aspen Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/14/12
Posts: 452
Loc: So Cal
Originally Posted By: Al Coda

The only way is testing the unit yourself w/ the gear you use.
Talking about watts is like talking about my heating to me.
A.C.


I am in violent agreement with AC's conclusion here. There is no better measurement tool than your ears, and no better place to take those measurements than on your stage...using your gear.

Let's be honest, manufactures have tried for decades to 'out spec' each other in the interest of selling more gear. Consider the source, and take all these specs with a grain of salt.

Watts, Peak Watts, RMS Watts...and then factor that with speaker efficiency measured @ 1 watt, on axis one meter (some use 1/2 meter) and looking at peak, not averaged.

Comparing SPL is probably the best way...but not everybody uses the same test methods! Some use pink noise for a source, others use a 1Kc sine wave, and some even use Steely Dan. Some measure at 1/2 meter, other a meter..and some at 1 foot! Most all are measured where a speaker is loudest...directly in front (or 'on axis'). But mine sounds best and is nearly as loud everywhere...way off axis! All these methods can produce very different readings from the same speaker.

And while I prefer to talk about SPL (rather than watts) when comparing self powered speakers, how can you compare "loudness" with a speaker like mine who's energy is VERY diffused, spread around 300 degrees, with a conventional speaker measured 'on axis' (directly in front) with it's energy all focused within 15 to 45 degrees? Answer; you can't...not honestly anyway.

FYi: when I take SPL measurement I do it on axis @ 1 meter using pink noise...and I look for 'average', not peak SPL levels. And while I believe most companies may use a similar approach...I am sure many do not...looking for the highest 'numbers' possible.

This 'Kinda Standard' SPL measurement approach yields a lower SPL number for my box...as you might expect it would. But since I doubt I could convince the other companies to measure their frequency response and/or SPL at 90 degrees off axis...I chose to do it their way and probably got a lower SPL number as a result.

But I think I achieved the goal with the SXL; it goes 50 cycles lower before it starts to roll off and it's 10dB hotter...which is noticeably lower, and louder than it's little brother. This was the request heard loud and clear here on this forum, that and that you wanted 2 channels plus balanced in/out. It still may not be for everybody, but then neither was the SS3!

So as AC says; listening with your setup, is probably still the best way to compare. Your ears do not lie...

If anyone is in the SoCal area and would like to stop by to compare it with the SS3 and/or any other amps, I am open to that.


Edited by Aspen (01/24/17 12:56 AM)
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#2830598 - 01/23/17 11:58 PM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: cphollis]
Aspen Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/14/12
Posts: 452
Loc: So Cal
Originally Posted By: cphollis
Originally Posted By: FunkKeyStuff
I can't believe no one has addressed this yet, but can it handle left-hand organ bass without a sub woofer?


Given that it appears that Aspen is in early pre-production, I would guess it would be several months before anyone can authoritatively answer that question.
)


Yes Chuck, this is the first run and it's a small number. The 2nd 'pipe line' run is due in April. So chances are that will be the first reviews.

My 1st runs are made mostly to beta test with my 'homies' (many saw and played the SXL at NAMM), to send samples to my Dealer Partners for their comments, and also have a few dedicated to get the UC/CE/PSE certification going, very expensive and can take months!

But so far, everyone who played it at NAMM seemed happy with it in direct comparisons to the SS3. It acted just as you might think a bigger brother would; bigger and louder.

And I have already received several great suggestions that will be visited on the next run including to radius the corners (like your SS3 amps...actually that was in the drawings...they just goofed), and also to better center balance the handle for weight distribution...all good stuff.

Regarding the request for adding wheels, I am not a big fan of that on a cab this size for several reasons:
1) the physical size of the" bottom (16x17") doesn't lend itself to stability when rolling (may tip over),
2) the added expense; I calculate x5 for BOM to MAP, so that would raise the price more than the cost of buying a decent Gear dolly like a RocknRoller mini cart,
3) I don't like adding something 100% of my users will pay for in the price, but less than half might use...so also anyone can add casters later
3) They can rattle...and I don't like rattles!


Edited by Aspen (01/24/17 12:14 AM)
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#2830643 - 01/24/17 07:26 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: Aspen]
AnotherScott Offline
10k Club

Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 10387
Originally Posted By: Aspen
Comparing SPL is probably the best way...but not everybody uses the same test methods! Some use pink noise for a source, others use a 1Kc sine wave, and some even use Steely Dan. Some measure at 1/2 meter, other a meter..and some at 1 foot!

You're right that methods vary. One you didn't mention is that sometimes they don't use anything at all for a source! Rather it is (as I understand it) mathematically calculated, i.e. what you can theoretically get based on the engineering (x watts into a speaker of y efficiency). Mfrs do often specify the distance, though, and often whether they are referring to continuous or peak (and I'd assume peak unless they say otherwise). The EV ZXa1 is spec'd at 126 dB "Max. SPL/1m (calc)" - I assume max means peak, probably for something like a 1 kHz tone.

Originally Posted By: Aspen
Most all are measured where a speaker is loudest...directly in front (or 'on axis'). But mine sounds best and is nearly as loud everywhere...way off axis!
...
And while I prefer to talk about SPL (rather than watts) when comparing self powered speakers, how can you compare "loudness" with a speaker like mine who's energy is VERY diffused, spread around 300 degrees, with a conventional speaker measured 'on axis' (directly in front) with it's energy all focused within 15 to 45 degrees? Answer; you can't...not honestly anyway.

True, it's hard to compare such different technologies with the same measure.

Originally Posted By: Aspen
FYi: when I take SPL measurement I do it on axis @ 1 meter using pink noise...and I look for 'average', not peak SPL levels.

Since so many others use peak, maybe you should measure (or calculate) a peak figure as well, and provide both figures, to help you (honestly) look better competitively. And further point out with an asterisk that, even then, you're measuring straight ahead, and that other speakers can drop off much more substantially off axis than your design does.
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#2830644 - 01/24/17 07:35 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: Aspen]
BigJPatton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 375
Loc: LI
It's funny how this was announced just after I was complaining about the issue I have with powered speakers in another thread, with no solution on the market, good timing!

This is great for certain keyboard players, it's a tad niche, I'm not sure those that enjoy good stage monitoring at their gigs will be interested, but for those that don't and have to get some sound to everyone in the band this is a much better solution than a powered speaker, I think, we shall see.

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#2830645 - 01/24/17 07:39 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: Aspen]
AnotherScott Offline
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 10387
Originally Posted By: Aspen
[And I have already received several great suggestions that will be visited on the next run including to radius the corners (like your SS3 amps...actually that was in the drawings...they just goofed), and also to better center balance the handle for weight distribution...all good stuff.

The "strap" handles are tough with increased weight no matter how they're balanced. You really want something where the weight isn't so pulling down on the outer edges of your hand. Maybe a flip-up padded handle (though I know, things that are designed to move can sometimes rattle), or a recessed opening with a round metal bar (might be kind of costly)...?

Originally Posted By: Aspen
Regarding the request for adding wheels, I am not a big fan of that on a cab this size for several reasons:
1) the physical size of the" bottom (16x17") doesn't lend itself to stability when rolling (may tip over),
2) the added expense; I calculate x5 for BOM to MAP, so that would raise the price more than the cost of buying a decent Gear dolly like a RocknRoller mini cart,
3) I don't like adding something 100% of my users will pay for in the price, but less than half might use...so also anyone can add casters later
3) They can rattle...and I don't like rattles!

1) maybe the "bottom" could be the side...?
2-3-4) to minimize expense and rattle possibility, maybe you could just have the openings for pop-in casters, and people can optionally buy the casters to pop in and out if they want them?
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#2830655 - 01/24/17 07:54 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: AnotherScott]
BigJPatton Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/14/06
Posts: 375
Loc: LI
The only thing that might stay my hand is the size, it's a big footprint at 29"x17x16, I think a 10" speaker model at 24"x14x14 would be the perfect size, and a 10" offers plenty of bass for most players.

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#2830661 - 01/24/17 08:15 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: MathOfInsects]
area51recording Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/13/02
Posts: 1689
Loc: Newburgh,IN
Originally Posted By: MathOfInsects
Funny thing is....for those gigs where an amp is my room sound, this one would generally be too much for the room. And for any gig where an amp is NOT my room sound (i.e., where there is FOH)....this one would be too much amp.

Who am I kidding, I'm still going to buy it.



What is this "Too much amp" you speak of? cool

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#2830665 - 01/24/17 08:24 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: BigJPatton]
16251 Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 06/07/07
Posts: 2520
Originally Posted By: BigJPatton
The only thing that might stay my hand is the size, it's a big footprint at 29"x17x16, I think a 10" speaker model at 24"x14x14 would be the perfect size, and a 10" offers plenty of bass for most players.
facepalm (couldn't resist)
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#2830668 - 01/24/17 08:40 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: mate stubb]
AWkeys Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/06/11
Posts: 125
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Originally Posted By: JohnDoe

Do you recall the name of those Peavey speakers?


Prosys 112. The small ones (they later made them larger and more clunky.)

I am a big fan of cone midrange.


I always seem to distort my K10s and my new ZLX112's with the midrange frequencies of Wurli and organ sounds at high SPLs. It got me thinking that maybe the route is to get a 3-way speaker and a good power amp instead. A lot of bassists I know show up to gigs with these featherweight class-D 1xxx-watt power amps and pretty lightweight, high power 3-way speakers. I know some of you have gone this route. Are you happy with it? Is this still a viable alternative?

I know, I could drop more money on a higher-end monitor too...

I had a Spacestation, but I'm so used to going mono and sending a stereo feed to FOH that I sold my v3. Nevertheless, Aspen makes a beautiful product, and I hope I get a chance to hear the new one!

EDITED: I didn't mean to hijack this post. Will start a new post.


Edited by AWkeys (01/24/17 08:43 AM)

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#2830673 - 01/24/17 09:16 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: AWkeys]
Polkahero Offline
KCFF League Champ '15
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/07/10
Posts: 1160
Loc: Michigan
Originally Posted By: AWkeys
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Originally Posted By: JohnDoe

Do you recall the name of those Peavey speakers?


Prosys 112. The small ones (they later made them larger and more clunky.)

I am a big fan of cone midrange.


I always seem to distort my K10s and my new ZLX112's with the midrange frequencies of Wurli and organ sounds at high SPLs. It got me thinking that maybe the route is to get a 3-way speaker and a good power amp instead. A lot of bassists I know show up to gigs with these featherweight class-D 1xxx-watt power amps and pretty lightweight, high power 3-way speakers. I know some of you have gone this route. Are you happy with it? Is this still a viable alternative?

I know, I could drop more money on a higher-end monitor too...

I had a Spacestation, but I'm so used to going mono and sending a stereo feed to FOH that I sold my v3. Nevertheless, Aspen makes a beautiful product, and I hope I get a chance to hear the new one!

EDITED: I didn't mean to hijack this post. Will start a new post.


Not sure if this is any help, but as a professional bassist I use a 3.5 lb. Aguilar amp head which is great, but to skimp on the cabinet size without adequate PA support is asking for trouble. I run either a Bergantino 6x10 or Berg 2x12 cabinet which are both fairly large cabinets. Law of physics apply here, you need a large cabinet to accurately reproduce lower frequencies at sufficient volume levels.
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#2830678 - 01/24/17 09:39 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: 16251]
drawback Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/11/04
Posts: 3089
Loc: Victoria, BC Canada
Originally Posted By: 16251
Originally Posted By: BigJPatton
The only thing that might stay my hand is the size, it's a big footprint at 29"x17x16, I think a 10" speaker model at 24"x14x14 would be the perfect size, and a 10" offers plenty of bass for most players.
facepalm (couldn't resist)


+1 on the facepalm

Why is it, that... oh, never mind.



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#2830696 - 01/24/17 10:27 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: AWkeys]
Reezekeys Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 02/07/11
Posts: 1866
Loc: NYC area
Originally Posted By: AWkeys
I always seem to distort my K10s and my new ZLX112's with the midrange frequencies of Wurli and organ sounds at high SPLs.

Ks have DSP to automatically roll off lows when the speakers are driven to distortion so if you're clipping a K speaker (and the distortion is truly from the K's speaker or amp) then I would not want to be on your stage without some serious earplugs. I remember one gig with my 2 K8s where I drove them into limiting (the front LED can be set to indicate when that happens). My ears were ringing 2x their usual for days after that. One of the loudest gigs I've ever done.

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#2830784 - 01/24/17 04:52 PM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: Aspen]
Al Coda Offline
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Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 3818
Loc: The Rig
Originally Posted By: Aspen

... radius the corners,


Great !
Id like to see protective nice "radius" flightcase corners too which are available for the end-user and for cents @Thomann.

Originally Posted By: Aspen

... and also to better center balance the handle for weight distribution.


No offense, but I really HATE strap handles since I had several keyboard cases, ampheads and cabs (old Fender 210 p.ex.) using single strap handles in the past.
The cases bang against knee, wade or shin during transport and all of these handles teared off relatively quick.

IMO your larger model needs at least 2 handles.
When the cab is upright and the rubberfeet show to the right, it needs the handles on top (like the strap handle) and on the bottom,- but rotated by 90.
So, when the box stands on its rubberfeet on a surface, you can grab it w/ both hands, lift and carry it the woofer facing away from you or to your belly.
But I think recessed folding sprung handle for about EUR 3,- a piece enduser price is the much better solution.

I understand you x5 calculation but were talking about parts for about EUR 12,50 at max here,- enduserprice @Thoman.

8 corners = EUR 6,-
2 sprung handles = EUR 6,44
Total EUR 12,44 incl. VAT

In large quantities, that should be significantly less !
I guess its all realizable for about 50 bucks more.

Originally Posted By: Aspen

... adding wheels


Im with you here, adding wheels directly to the cab is nonsense.
There are so many options like wheel boards out there.
I have a few anyway.

A.C.

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#2830808 - 01/24/17 08:09 PM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: Al Coda]
elseif Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 05/30/15
Posts: 36
65 lb? Nah. Neo drivers, switching power supply and 12 mm Okoume, maybe.

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#2830976 - 01/25/17 01:02 PM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: elseif]
TimA Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/10/14
Posts: 91
Loc: Nuevo Mejico
You want a 0.47244094488 Inch spittoon on the XL? Where would you mount it?
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#2831717 - 01/28/17 10:54 AM Re: New Space Station XL from Center Point Stereo [Re: elseif]
trebleclef Offline
Member

Registered: 01/29/07
Posts: 7
Originally Posted By: elseif
65 lb? Nah. Neo drivers, switching power supply and 12 mm Okoume, maybe.


Aspen, I would pay more for Neodynium magnets and lighter weight, given equal performance. Many of us are trying minimize our weight and footprint but achieve equivalent sound.

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