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#2857057 - 05/24/17 02:32 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Loc: USA, greater NY area
Originally Posted By: AnotherScott
Originally Posted By: brooster1
The most disappointing thing this year at a Musik exhibition was the Roland RD-2000 at NAMM 2017.

Roland took the OLD TECH from their previous-previous semi-supernatural RD's and NX's along with the PHA 1, 2, 3, 4 etc and threw in the new -old ?V-Piano? then put some racing strips on the sides to pretend that it is souped up. Souped up? More like re-heated Mulligan Stew.
What I was hoping for was

While it may not be what you were hoping for, for those who like the modeled V-Piano, the RD2000 drops the price of that technology from about $7k to about $2,500 and drops the travel weight a whole bunch, too. And adds a whole bunch of other functionality that the V-Piano didn't have (rompler sounds, clonewheel, MIDI controller functionality). It's kind of the way the Kronos brought the OASYS tech and a bunch more to the much cheaper Kronos. Not a bad deal if it's what you're looking for.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
Bit brutal comparison vid between the timbre of the RD2000 and the NP3. Creators say they tried to be fair. ... in some of the back and forth the NP3 samples come off more convincing and more pleasant than the RD's model.

I agree, I'd choose the Nord piano, personally.

And I'd even say this isn't the fairest comparison, despite your description, because as he says, he just used the default piano sound when you turn them on. That's arguably a fair starting point for most boards, which presumably put what they think is--at least technically--their "best" sound first, whether it's something that uses their biggest/newest sample set, or in the case of Roland, they're most sophisticated modeling technology. But Nord is a little different because they have numerous high quality sample sets, often in no way technically better than another, merely different... but they still have to choose something to put in the first preset. In this case, it's the Fazioli, but that's certainly not universally considered the best piano Nord has to offer, it's just an essentially random choice from among numerous high quality piano sets. I'm also not even sure whether, by default, the Fazioli is installed in its best ("XL") sample size, maybe someone else can confirm whether or not that's the case.

The Roland offers more total functionality for less money (they're closer in price in Europe than they are here in the U.S.), and I know a lot of people really do like the Roland piano sounds and/or actions, so I would not be surprised if it were the bigger seller, but the Nord piano sounds continue to just work better for me personally. Though I'd be curious to hear some EP comparisons, since there have been some good reports on the Roland there, and I don't find the Nord's to be first rate. The SV1 is still my reference there.

Originally Posted By: ProfD
I'm curious to see, hear and play the Korg GrandStage. If it combines the best of the SV-1 and Kronos, it is a winner.

I don't think there's anything SV1-like about it beyond the look/interface similarities. Sonically, I think it's strictly Kronos-based. I think it will still be a really nice board, but won't have the SV1-specific technologies or sound sets.


Good points overall. I'll tell you what though, not sure if you're saying the base NP3 sound is their XL - or if it's action related, but when he does the middle C velocity game, that NP3 comes up short. I hear maybe 3 velocity layers at best, transition isn't seemless and 0 to 127 comes up fast, too fast and once you're there that's it.
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#2857060 - 05/24/17 02:55 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
but when he does the middle C velocity game, that NP3 comes up short. I hear maybe 3 velocity layers at best, transition isn't seemless and 0 to 127 comes up fast, too fast and once you're there that's it.

Technically, I would expect modeling to out-perform samples when it comes to 0-to-127 smoothness. Honestly, I didn't even really pay attention to that part of the video. My impression was based on an overall sense of musicality and realism when he played full passages... because to me, that's what matters. To my ears, the Nord just "sings" in a way that the Roland doesn't, the Roland somehow seems somewhat sterile by comparison. And actually, it sometimes reminded me of what doesn't thrill me about some of the Korg pianos, something I would describe as a kind of "hollowness" to it. But this is strictly a subjective personal response, and I would not be surprised to find that others disagree with my assessment... we don't all prefer the same kinds of piano sound, even when it comes to real acoustic pianos!
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#2857063 - 05/24/17 03:15 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
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I feel similarly about Pianoteq. It actually is fun to play. Very capable dynamically, and when in the moment I enjoy the more realistic velocity range and seemless stages. But when listening in playback, it doesn't sound as good as a lot of sample libraries. I'm not sure yet if the Nord hardware and Piano engine really competes with the multigigabyte sample libraries on a computer with more velocity layers, higher polyphony, and all sorts of other parameters to tweak. But that's not the question in this thread. It seems if you need a controller and complex setups the RD is the tool even if you prefer sampled pianos. Roland is all in now on their V-piano engine and this PHA-50 action. So, no resolution here. There's still plenty reason to choose this or that stage piano.
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#2857066 - 05/24/17 03:20 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd
I feel similarly about Pianoteq. It actually is fun to play. Very capable dynamically, and when in the moment I enjoy the more realistic velocity range and seemless stages. But I when listening in playback, it doesn't sound as good as a lot of sample libraries.

Yup, that's another whole variable. If you asked the guy playing the two boards, he could conceivably tell you that the Roland felt more responsive to his intent while playing, even though, as listeners, some of us find the Nord sound more enjoyable. Without knowing how the player wanted it to sound in terms of expressivity, we can't know how accurate it felt to him, in terms of what he was trying to get out of the instruments. It is entirely possible that one could prefer playing X despite preferring the sound of Y.
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#2857067 - 05/24/17 03:22 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Moonglow Offline
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Funny, but when the video compared just the low, mid, and upper registers separately I preferred the RD-2000, but when comparing entire passages, I preferred the NP3. Seems like these sections interacted better with each other on the NP3.
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#2857093 - 05/24/17 06:04 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Moonglow]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/05/07
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Loc: Glendale, Ca.
It never ceases to amaze me how people hear things differently.

I sent this video to my piano tech/tuner last night. He's not up really at all on digital pianos - he does know what the Avant Grand is, he's played it and likes it - but he's never heard of or heard the CP4, or any stage pianos by Nord, Kawai, Roland, Casio, etc.

I would put him at the top echelon of piano techs in LA. There are two others (that I know of ) who I consider are on an equal ground with him.

I've probably had most everybody in town do work for me since 1985 when I had my C7e. Many were names who worked at major studios or did work for superstar pop people. Quite often I found their work good and at a Pro level but paled in comparison to my particular guy. I've used him since 1997 when I moved from the Valley over to Glendale and traded up to my Yamaha S6.

His knowledge pertaining to Steinways and the way he brought my D from its "just ok" state in the beginning to blossom into the piano that it is now - reaffirms my belief that he is a craftsman of the highest level.

He early on did some work with the LA Phi but found it a bit stressing so he settled in as Master tech at Cal State Northridge for over 20 years. He just freelances now and tunes what pianos he wants and for the people he likes in the area. He just raised his price to $300 from $250. I really can't afford him anymore so I might look around but in my opinion he's the best pure tuner along with voicing and regulation (along with aforementioned other two - one is on the West side and one's in Orange County ) in Los Angeles.

So with that bit of a buildup, I was curious as to what his thoughts were on the video. He liked the Roland. His comment on the Nord was : what's with that red one ?! That's an ugly sound.

One guy's take, fwiw of course. smile


Edited by Dave Ferris (05/25/17 08:32 AM)
Edit Reason: added thoughts
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#2857101 - 05/24/17 07:29 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Dave Ferris]
rickzjamm Offline
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Registered: 11/05/13
Posts: 633
Intersting and somewhat enlightening Dave.
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#2857163 - 05/25/17 06:09 AM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: rickzjamm]
Al Quinn Offline
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Registered: 08/13/14
Posts: 810
Loc: Center Moriches, NY
I think the RD2000 sounds great! I'd like to play one to see how it feels. I can't see myself buying one though because of the weight.
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#2857164 - 05/25/17 06:11 AM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Dave Ferris]
RABid Offline
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Registered: 11/01/01
Posts: 11973
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
It never ceases to amaze me how people hear things differently.

...


I think a lot of it has to do with what type of sound you became accustom to when first playing piano. My home piano was dark and mellow. My first piano teacher had a bright sounding piano. I hated it. 50 years later I still prefer a dark, mellow piano.
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#2872459 - 08/11/17 09:25 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
Mighty Motif Max Offline
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Registered: 12/14/16
Posts: 102
Loc: MN, U.S.
I had the opportunity to play one today while I was in the metro. Sadly, it was running through a LARGE KC amp in mono, so sound quality tests were somewhat irrelevant. :-( I love the weight factor (16 lbs less than my 88).

Anyway, the action felt really weird. I wouldn't exactly say flimsy, but like the weights were off somehow. Honestly, I do not know if I could meld with one very well. The store had an RD-800 right next to it, which I have played before, and the RD-800's action seemed superior to the RD-2000's. I know this new action is supposed to be great, so I was surprised. The best word to describe it would be "unnatural". I have played many different brands of real pianos and keyboards, and never felt anything like it. Is it just me? Is it a time thing?

Any thoughts?

P.S. Why is the screen smaller then the RD-800's? Space factors? And there seems to be no tone remain, unlike the 800.

-Max


Edited by Mighty Motif Max (08/11/17 09:32 PM)
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