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#2840003 - 03/06/17 11:56 AM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: brooster1]
johnnyd Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/27/07
Posts: 43
Seriously thinking about buying a RD 200O when it arrives. Sound clips sound good
Coming from an old KorgSGPro X (loved that action), and then to a Casio PX5S( action also felt good to me),so a pretty big step up I think! I am quite satisfied with the Casio,especially at that price,but the Roland seem to offer so much more in the way of a master controller.
Anybody know the release date?

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KC Island
#2840007 - 03/06/17 12:20 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: johnnyd]
wd8dky Offline
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Registered: 03/06/06
Posts: 844
Loc: Chicagoland
Sweetwater is suggesting early April.

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#2840046 - 03/06/17 02:45 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: wd8dky]
Spotting Jonah Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 81
Loc: Northern California
Roland already has an update available... maybe for the various artist and demo units already in existence... but it may need an update upon arrival. Not unusual. Can't wait!!

https://www.roland.com/us/support/by_pro...3-31d3e7be0376/
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#2840053 - 03/06/17 03:15 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: brooster1]
marczellm Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 725
Loc: Budapest, Hungary
Originally Posted By: brooster1
Roland RD-2000 preset #1 Stage Grand. Sounds good.

Roland RD-2000 Demo #1 by Andrea Girbaudo
I don't like it. IMO Roland is still sticking to their idea of somehow delivering an idealized version of how a piano should sound instead of how one really sounds, and this makes it less realistic to my ears. This is a reason why I like the Nord approach to piano better. Also the notes on the upper half of the keyboard seem to decay too fast.

On the other hand, when the V-Piano debuted, I spoke to a Roland manager who told me the following story. They arranged for one-on-one sessions with some prominent pianists, both jazz and classical, to show them the V-Piano, because they really believed it to be a "game changer", "disruptor", etc. Many of those pianists told them they don't really like the sound. Then they asked
- What is it about the sound that you don't like?
Most of them couldn't answer that question, just that it doesn't sound 'right' somehow. But one of them could formulate his criticism very specifically. Then the Roland specialist jumped into the V-Piano editor and tweaked the sound to address every single gripe of his. When they asked the guy to try it again, his face lit up:
- Now I like it!

So I guess if I had an RD-2000 that's what I should do. It's true for all other sounds as well: the Nord is 'dumber' in that there are no menus of hundreds of options but it sounds 'right' out of the box, while the Roland delivers a lot of value if you spend a lot of time learning and programming it.
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#2840056 - 03/06/17 03:43 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: RABid]
Jazz+ Offline
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Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5398
48 pounds without on-board speakers? I'll have to stick with my 26 pound baby with on-board 4 way monitor speakers.
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#2840093 - 03/06/17 06:07 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Jazz+]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Registered: 11/30/14
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The question is going to be does it sound and play like 48lbs of stage piano. And what sort of amplification does it require to prove it. There's a video I posted up the thread a bit that shows/hears it being amplified in the room. Whatever camera was being used... it does sound sweet solo. But I think I'm past gigging keys I can't one hand around the venue with a handle'd case. At home in another story. wink

The PHA-50 is mainly a plastic folded action with wood veneer for show as the white keys drop. I'm eager to see what it feels like... if it's good, it must be in the ball park of the CP-4's NW-GH or the Kawai ES8's RHIII. Most Roland stage piano actions I've played in the past felt a bit gear like to me, like pushing a crank case - like the oil made the movement slow or something. I don't feel that on the Ivory Feel-G with Escapement on the Juno DS8 - but this action (to me) is too shallow. I haven't had any time on the newer models like the LX-17 or LX-7 (which are both sporting the PHA-50). Or the PHA-4 in the FP-30. It seems like Roland is all in on the PHA-50, it's all over their line on the better models - the FP-90 too.

Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd


This acoustic piano sound speaks well solo, at least that's the impression I'm getting even from this less than optimal video.
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#2840101 - 03/06/17 06:44 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: marczellm]
burningbusch Offline
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Registered: 10/22/00
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Originally Posted By: marczellm
Originally Posted By: brooster1
Roland RD-2000 preset #1 Stage Grand. Sounds good.

Roland RD-2000 Demo #1 by Andrea Girbaudo
I don't like it. IMO Roland is still sticking to their idea of somehow delivering an idealized version of how a piano should sound instead of how one really sounds, and this makes it less realistic to my ears. This is a reason why I like the Nord approach to piano better. Also the notes on the upper half of the keyboard seem to decay too fast.



I agree with your impression. The Roland digitals sound to me like an abstraction of an acoustic piano. It's entirely possible that will work well live, especially in a clutter ensemble where you're not trying to fool anyone that there's an acoustic piano in the room.

But this RD-2000 to me sounds like an RD-800. I fail to hear anything about it that's appreciably better. I wish Roland offered more variety in their sounds. I never connected with Pianoteq until they released Model B. Prior to that, every other modelled variant just didn't sound right to me. I think people prize variety, expandability.

Busch.

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#2840107 - 03/06/17 07:02 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: burningbusch]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Most definitely Roland has long had a trademark or stamp on their sounds... Well, at one point I'm understanding that was really Eric Persing from Spectrasonics. But they stuck to this into the Supernatural libraries. I remember seeing that Supernatural branding all over their digital piano line when it hit and went from model to model on the showroom floor and felt it was definitely a Roland sound... the timbre and the fx and fx settings. So I get where this sentiment comes from. On the other hand it has worked for them... awful lot of pop records in a few sub genres with these sounds on them. They are all in on the V-piano sound now. It's all over the better models too like that PHA-50. It too is a Roland timbre, at least in how they've done the main presets. But it's there's a lot of control in the full modeling engine - one might be able to get different out of it - at least on the models that offer full editing.
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#2840126 - 03/06/17 09:53 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: marczellm]
Dave Ferris Offline
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Registered: 03/05/07
Posts: 5325
Loc: Glendale, Ca.
Originally Posted By: marczellm
Originally Posted By: brooster1
Roland RD-2000 preset #1 Stage Grand. Sounds good.

Roland RD-2000 Demo #1 by Andrea Girbaudo
I don't like it.


I don't like it there either. Not at all representative - at least from what I recall - of the keyboard I played at NAMM. It sounded much better to me when I played it for 20 minutes even with the lame Roland phones. It sounds processed and synthetic there, not as organic as when I played it. I think the live NAMM stage videos with Myron McKinley show it in a better light.

Bill- I've played the RD800 quite a few times and I think this an improvement fwiw....says the Yamaha guy. grin
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#2840129 - 03/06/17 10:27 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Dave Ferris]
Spotting Jonah Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 81
Loc: Northern California
You all have amazing ears. Seriously... I admire you guys. I'm jealous. All I hear are great pianos. I always tweak to taste anyway, and can always get something nice out of most modern stuff.

For me it's the feel of the keys, of which I prefer Roland's pro line over everything else.

I'm going back to my cab, where I can taste the difference between a Napa Valley Stags Leap cab and a Howell Mountain cab. You guys can figure out what piano sounds best. 80s rock screwed my ears up! :-)
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#2840160 - 03/07/17 05:39 AM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Spotting Jonah]
AnotherScott Online   content
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Registered: 10/19/09
Posts: 10404
Originally Posted By: Spotting Jonah
You all have amazing ears. Seriously... I admire you guys. I'm jealous. All I hear are great pianos.

I think we've gotten really spoiled. Decades ago, some lusted after a CP70 (Electric Grand) because finally there would be a way to get a "real" piano sound on stage without an actual grand supplied, and now a CP70 sample is considered its own thing, and not considered a "real" piano sound at all!

I'm not as fussy as some here. If I'm recording, I have access to a real grand piano and a VST I'm happy with. Live, I've been happy with some stuff that many here would certainly pooh-pooh. (Though unlike some here, I'm not doing, say, solo jazz piano.) Though there are also ones that rub me the wrong way, so I guess I've gotten a bit spoiled, too.
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#2840172 - 03/07/17 06:52 AM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: AnotherScott]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Registered: 11/30/14
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Loc: USA, greater NY area
Musical genres of course are a factor here. Solo piano, jazz and classical, and really songs that are written for piano, voice and piano, especially the stuff that sounds best unmic'd or minimal sound reinforcement - this is where the piano enthusiasts all wish for the timbre of a digital piano to be like a grand piano (of course, maintained, tuned, etc.).

As effort put into advancements in tech show - this crowd isn't small. Clearly there is a market for bringing the sound of $20k and up (and up and up) instruments under the fingers of the masses (well at least the mass of acoustic piano enthusiasts. Each generation of tech also proves that it's hard to virtualize or emulate a real cast iron harp, 230 strings, and a sound board, felt hammers etc!
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#2840177 - 03/07/17 07:11 AM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Dave Ferris]
Moonglow Online   content
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Registered: 03/15/03
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Loc: Northwest Indiana
Originally Posted By: Dave Ferris
Originally Posted By: marczellm
Originally Posted By: brooster1
Roland RD-2000 preset #1 Stage Grand. Sounds good.

Roland RD-2000 Demo #1 by Andrea Girbaudo
I don't like it.


I don't like it there either. It sounded better to me then that when I played it for 20 minutes even with the lame Roland phones. It sounds processed and synthetic there, not as organic as when I played it.

Same here. The piano in the above demo does sound processed and synthetic, and similar to previous experiences I've had with the V-Piano. It has this kind of metallic thing going on. I have never been a Roland piano fan, but I really enjoyed the RD-2000 through headphones at NAMM.
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#2840186 - 03/07/17 08:40 AM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: RABid]
Nadroj Offline
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Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 862
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
In terms of synth capabilities, is it all PCM presets or does it have Roland's SuperNatural VA synth engine in it?
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#2840229 - 03/07/17 01:25 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Nadroj]
marczellm Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 05/10/11
Posts: 725
Loc: Budapest, Hungary
Originally Posted By: Nadroj
In terms of synth capabilities, is it all PCM presets or does it have Roland's SuperNatural VA synth engine in it?
Does it really make a difference? The only things new to SN are PWM and some filter types.

Many of the synth presets listed here are familiar from the JUNO-G which is a rompler. However I've seen when trying out the FA-06 that many of those patches were recreated on / converted to the SN engine and included with the same name and sound.
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Gear: NS2 + JUNO-G


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#2840241 - 03/07/17 02:23 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: marczellm]
vanderSchoot Offline
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Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 539
Loc: The Netherlands
What i really don't understand that anyone would pay over 2000,- for a stage piano....the irony, because i can...
I did it for years, believing this was the only way to improve on my sounds.
Occasionally i added an expensive module, but ended up purchasing the new stage digital after some years.

Now i am dissapointed with all hardware brands from a sound perspective.
Sure one needs a board for live music, but i personally am not going to bother with the top category anymore since i also went the software route a year and a half ago.

I have a couple of top acoustic piano, electric piano, guitar and bass vst's.
It feels strange and some sort of bad dream to play and listen to the hardware equivalents in my arsenal and in musicstores.

The new RD2000 main piano is a really poor attempt compared to the Garritan CFX and others.
I have just purchased the new Neo Soul studio and compared to that the Nord electric piano's are also a sort of a joke.
I was only interrested in hardware for decades, but i admit it was a very wrong decision not to bother with vst's also.

Partly because i was stubborn and lazy, but also because i swallowed the marketing hype from the hardware brands claiming they were on top with their latest ''super natural'',''harmonic imaging XL'', ''spectral componant modelling'' and ''full modelling''.
I understand that for live use the reliable hardware unit remains the most ideal solution, but i can figuratively bang myself on the head for missing out on far superiour sounds for years.

I really hope that the new owners enjoy every bit of their RD2000, but i am still grumpy for believing the marketing overhyped crap the ''A brands'' of this world have blinded me with.


Edited by vanderSchoot (03/07/17 02:31 PM)

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#2840247 - 03/07/17 02:44 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Nadroj]
Macsaint777 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 15
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted By: Nadroj
In terms of synth capabilities, is it all PCM presets or does it have Roland's SuperNatural VA synth engine in it?


As far as I can see comparing the parameter guides and sound lists between the RD 2000 and the RD 800 (which I previously owned) the ONLY thing different about the RD 2000 sound wise, is the addition of the VPiano engine. The PCM (Supernatural) engine is identical to the RD 800, so no VA synth in here like say, the JP-80.
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#2840249 - 03/07/17 02:46 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: vanderSchoot]
ElmerJFudd Online   content
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 4694
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Originally Posted By: vanderSchoot
What i really don't understand that anyone would pay over 2000,- for a stage piano....the irony, because i can...
I did it for years, believing this was the only way to improve on my sounds.
Occasionally i added an expensive module, but ended up purchasing the new stage digital after some years.

Now i am dissapointed with all hardware brands from a sound perspective.
Sure one needs a board for live music, but i personally am not going to bother with the top category anymore since i also went the software route a year and a half ago.

I have a couple of top acoustic piano, electric piano, guitar and bass vst's.
It feels strange and some sort of bad dream to play and listen to the hardware equivalents in my arsenal and in musicstores.

The new RD2000 main piano is a really poor attempt compared to the Garritan CFX and others.
I have just purchased the new Neo Soul studio and compared to that the Nord electric piano's are also a sort of a joke.
I was only interrested in hardware for decades, but i admit it was a very wrong decision not to bother with vst's also.

Partly because i was stubborn and lazy, but also because i swallowed the marketing hype from the hardware brands claiming they were on top with their latest ''super natural'',''harmonic imaging XL'', ''spectral componant modelling'' and ''full modelling''.
I understand that for live use the reliable hardware unit remains the most ideal solution, but i can figuratively bang myself on the head for missing out on far superiour sounds for years.

I really hope that the new owners enjoy every bit of their RD2000, but i am still grumpy for believing the marketing overhyped crap the ''A brands'' of this world have blinded me with.


Hey, vanderSchoot. I wouldn't even differentiate hardware instruments from VSTs/software running on your personal computer. It's all the same type of technology. If it's sample based like Garritan CFX, then they've done extensive sampling at multiple velocity levels, different microphone positions, including additional sounds like pedal noise, etc. And if it's top modern it also includes a string resonance algorithm. The same technology it being implemented on modern "hardware" like the Kurzweil Forte. If it's modeled like Modartt's Pianoteq then it's basically the same technology that we see in the V-Piano, now trickling down to the RD-2000. It's just software running on different operating systems and chipsets. The rapid advancement of sound engines running on common operating systems like Windows and Mac OS has and is pushing the "hardware" developers to offer the same on custom DSP platforms or even off the shelf components and Linux like the Korg Kronos. The differentiation you're describing are the limitations of the previous generation of "hardware" digital instruments which were and are still using limited ROM storage for short and compressed audio samples.

Who's sample libraries or modeling software sound best is subjective regardless of marketing speak and branding. And the choice of wether you prefer to cart around a laptop or tablet and a controller or a more complete "hardware" solution is also a matter of preference.

The real irony is how much it all translates to you and your audience in live play. And to that extent, I'll debate that you're just as well focus on your amplification choices as you are your sound engine choices. What good is the tech if no one can hear the difference?
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#2840254 - 03/07/17 03:24 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: ElmerJFudd]
vanderSchoot Offline
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Registered: 12/24/10
Posts: 539
Loc: The Netherlands
Originally Posted By: ElmerJFudd

Hey, vanderSchoot. I wouldn't even differentiate hardware instruments from VSTs/software running on your personal computer. It's all the same type of technology.

Hi Elmer,........true but corn is the major basis for multiple food products too, some are very tasty others not so much.
Quote:

If it's sample based like Garritan CFX, then they've done extensive sampling at multiple velocity levels, different microphone positions, including additional sounds like pedal noise, etc. And if it's top modern it also includes a string resonance algorithm. The same technology it being implemented on modern "hardware" like the Kurzweil Forte.

The bolded part is a major, major advantage in favour of the vst, not found in the mostly closed miked stage piano.
The different mikes add to the memory samplepool rapidly and therefor the Garritan is still more than ten times bigger than the biggest Kurzweil Forte pianosample.Size isn't everything, but in case of the top vst's it becomes evident what the huge advantages are.
But in my opinion 15+ sample layers, pedal layers and multiple mike options in a top vst is no match for any hardware digital piano with much smaller specs and therefor limited choices due to limited memory.

Quote:

If it's modeled like Modartt's Pianoteq then it's basically the same technology that we see in the V-Piano, now trickling down to the RD-2000. It's just software running on different operating systems and chipsets. The rapid advancement of sound engines running on common operating systems like Windows and Mac OS has and is pushing the "hardware" developers to offer the same on custom DSP platforms or even off the shelf components and Linux like the Korg Kronos. The differentiation you're describing are the limitations of the previous generation of "hardware" digital instruments which were and are still using limited ROM storage for short and compressed audio samples.

Who's sample libraries or modeling software sound best is subjective regardless of marketing speak and branding. And the choice of wether you prefer to cart around a laptop or tablet and a controller or a more complete "hardware" solution is also a matter of preference.

The real irony is how much it all translates to you and your audience in live play. And to that extent, I'll debate that you're just as well focus on your amplification choices as you are your sound engine choices. What good is the tech if no one can hear the difference?

Mostly valid points !



Edited by vanderSchoot (03/07/17 03:25 PM)

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#2840265 - 03/07/17 04:04 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: marczellm]
Nadroj Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 08/19/13
Posts: 862
Loc: Edinburgh, Scotland
Originally Posted By: marczellm
Originally Posted By: Nadroj
In terms of synth capabilities, is it all PCM presets or does it have Roland's SuperNatural VA synth engine in it?
Does it really make a difference? The only things new to SN are PWM and some filter types.

Many of the synth presets listed here are familiar from the JUNO-G which is a rompler. However I've seen when trying out the FA-06 that many of those patches were recreated on / converted to the SN engine and included with the same name and sound.


I happen to get along well with the SN VA synth, was wondering if the 2000 had the ability to create sounds from scratch.
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#2840267 - 03/07/17 04:10 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: vanderSchoot]
Macsaint777 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 15
Loc: North Carolina, USA
As far as Pianoteq goes, I haven't heard any of their instruments that sounded right across the whole keyboard range. The upper register especially is not nearly percussive enough to pass for a piano, in my personal opinion (except perhaps the Blüthner). It is baffling to me that Nord has managed to make such good sounding samples from very very small sound files...yet they rival what is found in the Montage and Kronos in terms of realism (again, my opinion). What I've heard from the RD 2000 so far, as well as the SuperNATURAL pianos from their previous keyboards, sounds and plays a lot better than Pianoteq, so whatever they are doing, it goes a long way towards working really well for me, especially in a live band mix. I used to use the RD 800 Concert Grand NX (SuperNATURAL) piano live over my Nord Piano 2 because of the way the sound would ring out and had a fullness and ability to cut that I could not get out of the Nord Piano 2, no matter how much EQing I did.

I will grant that the VPiano and SuperNATURAL Piano don't sound exactly like a real piano, but they are very good for me in most cases.


Edited by Macsaint777 (03/07/17 06:17 PM)
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#2840310 - 03/07/17 08:16 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: wd8dky]
Macsaint777 Offline
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Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 15
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Originally Posted By: wd8dky
Sweetwater is suggesting early April.



I called Roland and spoke with Scott Berry, as well as had Sweetwater ask them about approximate delivery date for their shipment. I got the call from Sweetwater today that Roland had finally gotten back with them and said early April.

Since I preordered the RD 2000, I'm chomping at the bit to get it! I've got a Nord Electro 5D 73 with waterfall keys, and while they are fantastic for Organ, they are not good at all for piano, my principal instrument.
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#2840312 - 03/07/17 08:31 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Macsaint777]
Spotting Jonah Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 81
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777
I called Roland and spoke with Scott Berry, as well as had Sweetwater ask them about approximate delivery date for their shipment. I got the call from Sweetwater today that Roland had finally gotten back with them and said early April.


Awesome!! Thanks for the update. Scott is a great guy... I placed my order in late January, so hopefully I'm in the first batch!! Risky, I know, but what the heck...
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#2840479 - 03/08/17 05:45 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Spotting Jonah]
Macsaint777 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 15
Loc: North Carolina, USA
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#2841537 - 03/14/17 04:44 AM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Macsaint777]
brooster1 Offline
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Registered: 09/09/16
Posts: 27

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#2841645 - 03/14/17 01:35 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: brooster1]
Macsaint777 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 15
Loc: North Carolina, USA


Really like the Aco Piano 3 here! It is now clear that this machine has the entire sound set of an RD-800 with a few additional voices reworked as Tine EPs, as well as the new RD-1000 sounds and of course, the V-Piano engine and its 10 sounds. That awful Concert Grand default sound from the RD-800 is here, but thankfully so are the NX Pianos! Good demos.. and any of you stateside who are looking for an RD-2000, they are now shipping from Guitar Center, but nowhere else until early April.

Cheers!
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#2841733 - 03/14/17 07:44 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Macsaint777]
Al Coda Offline
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Registered: 08/31/08
Posts: 3818
Loc: The Rig
Originally Posted By: Macsaint777


Lots of Rhodes in that "real world scenario".
Acoustic piano from 19:40min ...



A.C.


Edited by Al Coda (03/14/17 07:55 PM)

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#2842036 - 03/15/17 05:52 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Al Coda]
Spotting Jonah Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 07/18/13
Posts: 81
Loc: Northern California
Looks like Sweetwater may be getting their first lot a little early!
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#2842060 - 03/15/17 08:08 PM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Spotting Jonah]
Macsaint777 Offline
Member

Registered: 06/09/14
Posts: 15
Loc: North Carolina, USA
Yes, my order is set to come in Tuesday, March 21st. They said I should have it by Friday the 24th! Can't wait! Been without 88 weighted keys too long. I love you Nord Electro 5D, but I need my Piano keys back!
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#2842440 - 03/17/17 09:56 AM Re: Roland RD-2000 [Re: Macsaint777]
brooster1 Offline
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Registered: 09/09/16
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