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#2826704 - 01/08/17 05:14 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: The Real MC]
Dr88s Offline
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Registered: 05/12/13
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Loc: Montreal, Canada
Sundown,

Sincere thanks for your encouraging words and your constructive criticism.

Originally Posted By: Sundown
With that "Thriller" patch, you're in striking distance of also getting the "Too Much Time on my Hands" bass sound from Styx. With some envelope and filter tweaking, you'd have it.


It's really funny that you should mention that particular song. My newfound interest in sound programming was born only three months ago when I could not find an adequate sound for the bass synth in that song. I OBSESSIVELY searched for a compatible sound before giving up and designing it myself in the OP-X II VST, then sampling it into my Nord. In the end, I was very happy with the results, but it was ridiculous how much time I spent trying to find it elsewhere.

That's kind of when I decided that sound programming his a pretty essential skill for the well-rounded keyboardist, and resolved to learn how to do it myself and not depend on others.

Here's my version of TMTOMH, by the way.

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#2826706 - 01/08/17 05:17 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Dr88s]
Dr88s Offline
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Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 953
Loc: Montreal, Canada
For everyone else, to be clear, I am a beginner at this.
My request to be challenged was not coming from a place of confidence or braggadocio, but rather as a bit of a self-evaluation. I would have no idea how to go about synthesizing anything beyond fairly basic subtractive sounds. The 'streets have no name' intro, for example, is far beyond my capability.
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#2826714 - 01/08/17 05:57 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Dr88s]
Barryjam Offline
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Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 163
Loc: Auburn, Northern CA
Dr88s, I'm sure everyone appreciates your efforts. We all benefit from either your finished product or the alternatives provided by others. I cannot praise enough your courage to do this. It is a gift to all of us!
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#2826720 - 01/08/17 06:21 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Barryjam]
Sundown Offline
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You're building a very important skill for yourself. Keep at it. thu

You'll find that programming helps you solve problems that non-programmers can't. When I build a composition, it's very rare that I don't wind up tweaking sounds to make them fit together. Best of all, some of those tweaks become extensive, and you soon have a fresh, new, unique sound for yourself.

If I *couldn't* quickly tweak sounds to make them fit, I don't know what I would do, other than live with uncomfortable compromises.
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#2826741 - 01/08/17 07:58 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Barryjam]
Dr88s Offline
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Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 953
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted By: Barryjam
Dr88s, I'm sure everyone appreciates your efforts. We all benefit from either your finished product or the alternatives provided by others. I cannot praise enough your courage to do this. It is a gift to all of us!


Thanks for the nice words. I'm not really sure how this helps anyone other than to motivate those who have been too intimidated (or lazy) to look into sound programming to roll up their sleeves and just do it! If I can, so can everyone else!
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#2826742 - 01/08/17 08:03 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: b3boy]
DrSynth Offline
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Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 57
Loc: Woodland Hills, CA
Originally Posted By: b3boy
The synth lead on Starsky & Hutch Season 2. Sounds like an Arp Odyssey to my ears.

I'd guess Lyricon, given it's a Tom Scott composition and the phrasing sounds like a wind controller. But I hear where you're coming from, like an Arp it has enough edge to take your head off.

Originally Posted By: Barryjam
on Thriller, although the intro pad is easy, I'd like to hear the synth horn stab that is followed by the filter sweep.


Those stabs are fairly straightforward. Sawtooth waves in octaves with filter wide open in the attack, layered with some brass section samples etc. Here's a version that is a combo of the stabs that also incorporates the filter sweep

...another SY99 quickie

Manny
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#2826748 - 01/08/17 08:18 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: DrSynth]
Barryjam Offline
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Loc: Auburn, Northern CA
Manny. Sounds great. The filter sweep is on the tail end of the initial synth brass hits?

By the way, I'd hit that E chord just slightly earlier on the "and" of the first beat, but I truly offer that as constructive, and I could be totally off.


Edited by Barryjam (01/08/17 09:15 PM)
Edit Reason: Wrong chord
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#2826759 - 01/08/17 08:57 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Dr88s]
Dr88s Offline
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Registered: 05/12/13
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Loc: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted By: DrSynth
Those stabs are fairly straightforward. Sawtooth waves in octaves with filter wide open in the attack, layered with some brass section samples etc. Here's a version that is a combo of the stabs that also incorporates the filter sweep

Manny


Your snippet sounds great.

Using your advice, here's a quick go.

It's three stacked saws. Two are an octave apart with the filter mostly open.
Because I am trying to do this completely subtractive, there are no samples. In order to stack brass as you suggested, there is a third saw, filtered, with an amp envelope and a tiny modulation envelope giving a subtle pitch modulation blip right on the attack to try simulate brass.

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#2826766 - 01/08/17 09:23 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Barryjam]
DrSynth Offline
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Registered: 11/03/06
Posts: 57
Loc: Woodland Hills, CA
Originally Posted By: Barryjam
Manny. Sounds great. The filter sweep is on the tail end of the initial synth brass hits?

By the way, I'd hit that B chord just slightly earlier on the "and" of the first beat, but I truly offer that as constructive, and I could be totally off.

Yeah, I did the envelopes with a little 'hold time' for the stabs then if you hold notes long enough you get the filter sweep closing down, so one patch kinda covers the two different sounds used on the original. Your S90es should do a reasonable recreation.

Originally Posted By: Dr88s
Using your advice, here's a quick go.

It's three stacked saws. Two are an octave apart with the filter mostly open.
Because I am trying to do this completely subtractive, there are no samples. In order to stack brass as you suggested, there is a third saw, filtered, with an amp envelope and a tiny modulation envelope giving a subtle pitch modulation blip right on the attack to try simulate brass.

Yep, that's the basics. Add some resonance, maybe patch the pitch blip to the octave tuned saw wave, drench in reverb...

Manny
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#2826779 - 01/09/17 12:45 AM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: DrSynth]
b3boy Offline
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Registered: 12/04/03
Posts: 1432
Originally Posted By: DrSynth
Originally Posted By: b3boy
The synth lead on Starsky & Hutch Season 2. Sounds like an Arp Odyssey to my ears.

I'd guess Lyricon, given it's a Tom Scott composition and the phrasing sounds like a wind controller. But I hear where you're coming from, like an Arp it has enough edge to take your head off

Manny


Wow, I had never heard of such a thing until you suggested it. Had a look st the Wiki and sure enough it's down as used on S&H. Always thought it was an Arp Odyssey/2600
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#2826826 - 01/09/17 07:30 AM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: hurricane hugo]
vonnor Offline
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Registered: 01/02/14
Posts: 624
Loc: Centreville, VA USA
The thin burping synth in the intro (and beyond) of Rush's New World Man from Signals.

The hard sync sweep synth in the intro (and beyond) of The Fixx's One Thing Leads to Another.
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#2826830 - 01/09/17 07:39 AM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: vonnor]
Dr88s Offline
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Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 953
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted By: vonnor
The thin burping synth in the intro (and beyond) of Rush's New World Man from Signals.

The hard sync sweep synth in the intro (and beyond) of The Fixx's One Thing Leads to Another.


I love hard sync'ed sounds. My personal favorite use is in No Doubt's ''Just a Girl''. I will definitely try The Fixx one out. I'm also a big Rush fan so I'll try NWM out as well. Good suggestions.
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#2826862 - 01/09/17 09:43 AM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Sundown]
The Real MC Online   content
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Registered: 05/17/05
Posts: 4296
Loc: Secluded Tranquil NY Wine Coun...
Originally Posted By: Sundown
You did a great job on "The Camera Eye". You've got the basic timbre and the sample & hold down cold.


It didn't hurt that I used two of the same instruments used in the song - OBX and Taurus pedals. The OBX has a unique filter resonance - same as the SEM module used in the Oberheim polySEMs - that has yet to be emulated.

I was surprised how well the Taurus translated to the iPod mic. I was playing through a little Barbetta amp at low volume.

Quote:
It's hard to tell from your audio clip, but the attack is a little bit off (it's got a bit more bite than the album, perhaps a bit more resonance). With some envelope tweaking, you'd have it 100%.


I didn't have an Oberheim eight voice like they used on the song so I used the OBSX. It's a preset polysynth; I used a preset that is pretty close, but resonance is not a control that is available on the front panel. Yes there's a MIDIControl accessory that permits full editing (which I now have) but it wasn't available at the time.

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#2826863 - 01/09/17 09:55 AM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: The Real MC]
Dr88s Offline
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Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 953
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Originally Posted By: Sundown
You did a great job on "The Camera Eye". You've got the basic timbre and the sample & hold down cold.


It didn't hurt that I used two of the same instruments used in the song - OBX and Taurus pedals. The OBX has a unique filter resonance - same as the SEM module used in the Oberheim polySEMs - that has yet to be emulated.

I was surprised how well the Taurus translated to the iPod mic. I was playing through a little Barbetta amp at low volume.

Quote:
It's hard to tell from your audio clip, but the attack is a little bit off (it's got a bit more bite than the album, perhaps a bit more resonance). With some envelope tweaking, you'd have it 100%.


I didn't have an Oberheim eight voice like they used on the song so I used the OBSX. It's a preset polysynth; I used a preset that is pretty close, but resonance is not a control that is available on the front panel. Yes there's a MIDIControl accessory that permits full editing (which I now have) but it wasn't available at the time.


I have the feeling he was critiquing me and not you smile
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#2826983 - 01/09/17 07:04 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: vonnor]
Dr88s Offline
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Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 953
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted By: vonnor
The thin burping synth in the intro (and beyond) of Rush's New World Man from Signals.


You probably won't be able to tell it from the video because the iPhone camera had trouble capturing the deep bass as opposed to the ambient room noise and key clicking, but I am amazed at how close I was able to get. This is fun!

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#2827007 - 01/09/17 08:43 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Dr88s]
Dave Weiser Offline
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Registered: 06/30/09
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Synth solo on Little Feat's live version of All That You Dream? (3:48)

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#2827048 - 01/10/17 06:21 AM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Dave Weiser]
MorayM Online   content
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Registered: 09/05/13
Posts: 1169
Loc: Wilts, UK
A couple of unusual ones:

The 80s "bell" sound at 0:54 here:



The "swooshing" noises throughout Welcome to the Machine, e.g. 1:24: Panning effect is optional - I can't remember if the Gaia can do it!

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#2827104 - 01/10/17 09:23 AM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Dr88s]
vonnor Offline
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Loc: Centreville, VA USA
Originally Posted By: Dr88s

Very nice!
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#2827244 - 01/10/17 07:57 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: MorayM]
Dr88s Offline
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Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 953
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted By: MorayM
The "swooshing" noises throughout Welcome to the Machine, e.g. 1:24: Panning effect is optional - I can't remember if the Gaia can do it!


No panning, as I am running mono and just using the ambient room sound picked up by my iPhone.

I really thought this would be easier and I'd be able to get closer. This was the best I could manage frown



Edited by Dr88s (01/11/17 03:27 AM)
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#2827245 - 01/10/17 07:59 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Dave Weiser]
Dr88s Offline
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Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 953
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted By: Dave Weiser
Synth solo on Little Feat's live version of All That You Dream? (3:48)


"video not available"
Probably county restrictions...
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#2827275 - 01/11/17 02:02 AM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Dr88s]
marczellm Online   content
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It's not available to me too but I found the track on Spotify.
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#2827310 - 01/11/17 07:05 AM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: carterrian]
tucktronix Offline
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Originally Posted By: carterrian
The intro to Where the Streets Have No Name.


I used to nail that intro with a Roland Alpha Juno-1 several years ago smile
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#2827330 - 01/11/17 08:47 AM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Dr88s]
MorayM Online   content
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Registered: 09/05/13
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Loc: Wilts, UK
Originally Posted By: Dr88s
Originally Posted By: MorayM
The "swooshing" noises throughout Welcome to the Machine, e.g. 1:24: Panning effect is optional - I can't remember if the Gaia can do it!


No panning, as I am running mono and just using the ambient room sound picked up by my iPhone.

I really thought this would be easier and I'd be able to get closer. This was the best I could manage frown



Nicely done! Does the Gaia have 12 and 24db filter modes, that might help.
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#2827456 - 01/11/17 07:48 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: MorayM]
Synthaholic Offline
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Here's a good one that shouldn't take you too long - the main synth playing the theme in the intro.


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#2827462 - 01/11/17 08:09 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: MorayM]
Dr88s Offline
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Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 953
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted By: MorayM
Nicely done! Does the Gaia have 12 and 24db filter modes, that might help.


It does, but it didn't get me any closer to the sound I wanted.
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#2827463 - 01/11/17 08:12 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Synthaholic]
Dr88s Offline
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Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 953
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Here's a good one that shouldn't take you too long - the main synth playing the theme in the intro.




Good choice for my purposes. Offhand that attack sounds tricky and I'm not quite sure what's going on, but the whole point of this thread is to get me to twist the knobs and manipulate those sliders to learn!
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#2827543 - 01/12/17 07:47 AM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Synthaholic]
Dr88s Offline
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Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 953
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Here's a good one that shouldn't take you too long - the main synth playing the theme in the intro


Synthaholic,

This one was interesting to me. I added a small pitch envelope on the attack of the main oscillator, but then when I layered another Osc, they were (unexpectedly) out of tune and I had to adjust the pitch and fine tune of Osc2. Because I'm not playing this with others, the whole thing may be out of tune and perhaps I should have tuned each oscillator post envelope.

Good learning example.

Here's my beginner's take on it.

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#2827809 - 01/13/17 05:06 AM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Dr88s]
MorayM Online   content
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/05/13
Posts: 1169
Loc: Wilts, UK
Originally Posted By: Dr88s
Originally Posted By: MorayM
Nicely done! Does the Gaia have 12 and 24db filter modes, that might help.


It does, but it didn't get me any closer to the sound I wanted.


Ah that's a shame.
Originally Posted By: Dr88s
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Here's a good one that shouldn't take you too long - the main synth playing the theme in the intro


Synthaholic,

This one was interesting to me. I added a small pitch envelope on the attack of the main oscillator, but then when I layered another Osc, they were (unexpectedly) out of tune and I had to adjust the pitch and fine tune of Osc2. Because I'm not playing this with others, the whole thing may be out of tune and perhaps I should have tuned each oscillator post envelope.

Good learning example.

Here's my beginner's take on it.



Very nicely done! If you're interested in that sound, there was a great thread on the Sound on Sound forums a while back dissecting the song. A lot of people seem to think that the bends were played individually, rather than on an envelope!
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#2828031 - 01/13/17 09:09 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: Dr88s]
Synthaholic Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 04/18/05
Posts: 1189
Loc: Where the wild things are
Originally Posted By: Dr88s
Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
Here's a good one that shouldn't take you too long - the main synth playing the theme in the intro


Synthaholic,

This one was interesting to me. I added a small pitch envelope on the attack of the main oscillator, but then when I layered another Osc, they were (unexpectedly) out of tune and I had to adjust the pitch and fine tune of Osc2. Because I'm not playing this with others, the whole thing may be out of tune and perhaps I should have tuned each oscillator post envelope.

Good learning example.

Here's my beginner's take on it.



Nice job! I used to have a trio - me, drummer, female vocalist - who did this song, so I also made the programming attempt, on a Quadrasynth+Piano. I dug up a few seconds of that band for my version:

CLONK
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#2828033 - 01/13/17 09:12 PM Re: Challenge me! (Sound design) [Re: MorayM]
Dr88s Offline
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Registered: 05/12/13
Posts: 953
Loc: Montreal, Canada
Originally Posted By: MorayM
Very nicely done! If you're interested in that sound, there was a great thread on the Sound on Sound forums a while back dissecting the song. A lot of people seem to think that the bends were played individually, rather than on an envelope!


That's a pretty hardcore discussion about a sound from a pretty obscure (to me, at least) song, but fascinating! Thanks for the share.
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