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#2850918 - 04/21/17 06:14 PM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: cgiles]
bill bosco Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/14
Posts: 313
check out b3 guys website , they've got a picture of a truck
loaded with packed up legends ready to be shipped out , expected to arrive on the 10th of may

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KC Island
#2851013 - 04/22/17 09:00 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: bill bosco]
Aussie_Chicago Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 06/24/13
Posts: 572
Loc: Chicago, Illinois
As it turns out, I'm officially the first to preorder the KeyB from Kraft. I'm thinking once these get "out", they will have trouble keeping up with demand. Worst case, if I don't like it, I can drive it back to them for a refund. I ordered the "Live" version. It will be perfect for a new project I'm working on.
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#2851038 - 04/22/17 12:00 PM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: Aussie_Chicago]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1728
Thanks for the heads up that Kraft will have these.

This will be the first time that Key B has made it to a major distributor with a return policy.

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#2851049 - 04/22/17 12:59 PM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: LX88]
jbolazzi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/16
Posts: 13
Loc: italy
Not bad at all the new legend Live ! Actually pretty good !!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCgSsbfTC3s
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#2851152 - 04/23/17 04:19 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: cgiles]
KRK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Italy
Originally Posted By: cgiles
Dazz, how much of an improvement in sound is the Legend over the Mk111. HOW is it better? I'm pretty happy with my Mk111 but would consider a Legend if the sound was (in the opinion of a long-time Mk111 owner - YOU) significantly better (more authentic?) and because of the prospect of better long-range product support.

chas


I owned the KeyBDuo and I tested the Legend in november (see my videos).
they are DEFINITELY different, for the keyclick, the percussion and expecially for the Leslie sim and saturation (the interaction between overdrive and expression pedal is great!).
I'm not only talking about rock sound (that is great on the Legend) but in general, with just a little saturation, the response of internal leslie sim is more realistic.

also, the LEGEND has an analog audio IN, for your real hammond (or a guitar, or whatever), if you wanto to record at home with the great leslie simulation and overdrive and reverb of the legend or just practice with headphones.

also, the LEGEND has a send-return input for additional effects pedals (for example, a tube overdrive - but you should not need one laugh ) and it will work BEFORE leslie simulation...

and, the LEGEND (the complete one, with presets octave) weight about 10 kgs less than the KeyBduo MKII and 5kgs less than the MKIII.

cheers


Edited by KRK (04/23/17 04:19 AM)

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#2851212 - 04/23/17 10:39 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: KRK]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1728
I listened to the Marsico audio clip listed above.

This is what I have been talking about on "another" thread. The organ is at first demonstrated with NO leslie sim on.

Not only more possible to hear what is really going on with percussion , CV and such but it gives us something to compare the basic Hammond tone with without being altered by a sim.

The leslie sim effect on this recording is gorgeous. And with or without the sim this organ has the potential to fool me on a recording if I did not know it was a clone.

I've been listening through headphones and it all sounds accurate. I don't want to get into comparisons and knock someone else's stuff, or talk about what has balls and what doesn't....

The last clone I bought was a Numa, largely because I trusted the ear of the designers...Elvio in conjunction with Joey D.

Is it possible that the bar has been raised?

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#2851217 - 04/23/17 11:14 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: LX88]
mate stubb Offline
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 15092
Originally Posted By: LX88
I listened to the Marsico audio clip listed above.

This is what I have been talking about on "another" thread. The organ is at first demonstrated with NO leslie sim on.


Actually the sim IS on. The rotors are in stop mode, which is what almost all jazz players use. You can see the speed switch is in the middle (stop) position.

At 1:00 he flips the speed switch left, which is Chorale.

The great thing about stop is that it makes the CV shine, as LX and others have pointed out. It's harder to evaluate CV in Chorale or Fast.


Edited by mate stubb (04/23/17 11:15 AM)
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#2851222 - 04/23/17 11:50 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: mate stubb]
LX88 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 10/16/10
Posts: 1728
I stand corrected if the sim is on.

On the Numa you definitely did not want the sim on brake. Brake affected the tone, so you had to turn the sim off.

On this it might not affect the tone of the organ...it doesn't seem to.

The clip in question is from jbolazzi's post above.

By the way it is the Live... not the Legend. It doesn't seem to lack much if any sound wise.

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#2851223 - 04/23/17 12:04 PM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: LX88]
mate stubb Offline
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 15092
Originally Posted By: LX88
I stand corrected if the sim is on.

On the Numa you definitely did not want the sim on brake. Brake affected the tone, so you had to turn the sim off.


Leslie sims on stop can leave the virtual rotor in a random position, or always stop with the rotor in front. The tone is affected, sometimes drastically, if the rotor stops in a random position. This can be considered a drawback in spite of it being accurate to a real leslie. That is why many players prefer it to always stop in front.

This is a problem on a real leslie too BTW. I've seen many an organ player reach inside the cabinet and move the horn back to front position.
_________________________
Moe
---
Jazzooo: "Yes, there is an appeal to having your entire catalog on a few little pieces of dark plastic that are easily lost under the seat."

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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#2851234 - 04/23/17 01:09 PM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: mate stubb]
Kurt W Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 02/02/12
Posts: 193
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
This is a problem on a real leslie too BTW. I've seen many an organ player reach inside the cabinet and move the horn back to front position.


Which indicates he reach inside the back of the cabinet and moves the horn pointing towards him effectively leaving the horn stopped in the BACK position..... cool

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#2851238 - 04/23/17 01:27 PM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: Kurt W]
Markyboard Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/10/01
Posts: 4791
Loc: Springfield, Virginia
Originally Posted By: Kurt W
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
This is a problem on a real leslie too BTW. I've seen many an organ player reach inside the cabinet and move the horn back to front position.


Which indicates he reach inside the back of the cabinet and moves the horn pointing towards him effectively leaving the horn stopped in the BACK position..... cool


laugh

I was wondering how they know the back of the horn from the front but I guess easy enough to stick gum on one side...or maybe use your ears?

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#2853148 - 05/02/17 08:32 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: Markyboard]
KRK Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/17/09
Posts: 226
Loc: Italy

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#2853361 - 05/03/17 06:11 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: KRK]
MorayM Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 09/05/13
Posts: 1268
Loc: Wilts, UK
Originally Posted By: KRK


Wow, nice!
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#2853763 - 05/05/17 12:48 PM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: MorayM]
Barryjam Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 216
Loc: Auburn, Northern CA
hmmm.

b3guys has a page on a single manual Legend Solo, expected September...

http://www.b3guys.com/Viscount+Legend+Solo+Organ.html/product_id/585

First I've heard of it. Forgive me if already discussed.
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Barry

Home: Steinway L, Bob Schleicher A100 chop, 142 Leslie.

Gigs: Yamaha CP4, Crumar Mojo 61, Ventilator II. Lounsbury H&F. A&H QUsb mixer, Crown & QSC amps, JBL SRX-700 series speakers

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#2853765 - 05/05/17 12:53 PM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: Barryjam]
Moonglow Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/15/03
Posts: 4394
Loc: Northwest Indiana
At NAMM 2017, when I spoke with Elvio he advised a single-manual version would be coming soon. Really glad to hear of some follow-up info here. thu
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#2853854 - 05/06/17 04:55 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: jbolazzi]
Al Quinn Online   content
Gold Member

Registered: 08/13/14
Posts: 815
Loc: Center Moriches, NY
Originally Posted By: jbolazzi
Not bad at all the new legend Live ! Actually pretty good !!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yCgSsbfTC3s

Outstanding! Not only does it sound awesome, but the price and weight are reasonable. Kudos to Alberto for his great playing and demo. I hope for an opportunity to play one soon.
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Yamaha C3, '62 A100, Leslie 145, CP4, Mojo, HX3 Module, Vent 2, Electro 4D, AX Synth, SSv3, Markbass CMD 121P, Chopped Leslie 145, RCF TT08As

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#2855657 - 05/16/17 02:15 PM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: Al Quinn]
jbolazzi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/16
Posts: 13
Loc: italy
I decided to order the Legend Live after listening to these video. The toy was delivered on timeand wanted to share my first impressions on the Legend Live.
-The Legend is rather well built. The materials are well chosen and clearly a compromise was made in order to save weight and to control the manufacturing costs. But the overall quality versus lightness is well balanced to my mind.. from the aesthetic side it is a pretty nice mix of tradition and vintage... Matter of taste!

-The interface is very well studied, immediately feeling very comfortable compared to my classic Hammond B3.

-The sound of the clone is quite realistic (of course a suitable amplifier must be used for a good bass response)

-The Leslie effect is also realistic

-What impressed me the most on this instrument are the many options available to optimize the sound:

There are 6 knobs, easily accessible, which makes a huge difference on the sound output compared to the other clones I have used so far (but even compared to the original Hammond B3):

For example:

1. setting the key click level

2. adjusting the Decay

3. Adjusting the Percussion volume

4. Setting the overdrive

5. Adding Crosstalk signal(typical background noise of the B3)

6. Adjusting the sustain and the volume of the pedal drawbar that can be layered with the lower keyboard bass sound. It simulate the use of the pedal and accentuate the bass output.

My conclusion: For an Hammond Clone it is very convincing. It offers the necessary settings to simulate the original sound. Having the chance to own a B3 and a Leslie, I was able to test and compare the sounds with the original one, and I greatly appreciated in particular the value of the "percussion or Crosstalk setting".

The Legend is very nice for LIVE use, the instrument offers a range of settings easily accessible, not forgetting an EQ (for bass/medium/high) which can be useful to adapt to the acoustic conditions of a concert hall.
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Steinway M!70 - Hammond B3 - Nordstqge - Physis piano H1 - Moog Prodigy - Piano Rodes MK2

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#2856032 - 05/18/17 04:43 PM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: jbolazzi]
Scottzo Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 6
I too just received the Legend live. It is replacing a Crumar Mojo, which was also a stellar-sounding instrument, so this thing had a high bar to reach.

On most accounts, it is phenomenal. The raw tone is great - slightly better than the Mojo. The percussion and C/V are also standouts. The key click is very well done, but here is give the slight edge to the Mojo. The drive is very well done and responds as it should. And the swell pedal response - that is, how the physical movements correlate with the changes in volume - feels very authentic to me, closer to a real Hammond than the Mojo.

Here's my one area of disappointment - the key stiffness. I was spoiled by the Mojo's adjusted Fatar keybed that gave a key dip. Wry close to the real thing. The Legend IS stiffer. It's not egregiously so, and still very playable, but it IS stiffer than the real deal by a considerable margin.

Overall, I think I'm gonna love this thing. The tone is superb, the layout is 100% as it should be, and the build quality is very good. And the keys will loosen a little over time. All in all, VERY happy with it!

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#2856072 - 05/19/17 12:15 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: Scottzo]
jbolazzi Offline
Member

Registered: 11/12/16
Posts: 13
Loc: italy
Hi Scottzo, I thought you could be interested with my feedback as well regarding the keybed feeling. I have my B3 (1957) and the Viscount Legend close each other and by comparison I feel the B3 keybed is actually stifer than the Viscount one. I have to precise that the keyfelts on my B3 was replaced recently and the keybed was adjusted by Hammond service few years ago. Therefore the mechanical of my B3 is probably close to original. Even the keybed of the Hammond vintage organ would tend to wear out and will feel lighter over the years. I was always told that B3 organs are all differents, each one having its own characteristic. The Legend is for sure not designed to last 60 years, it doesn't feel like driving a Cadillac Deville, but it is light and for the fun it can be played every day with a different sound flavor ( just need to turn more or less one of these potentiometers ....) Enjoy it.
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Steinway M!70 - Hammond B3 - Nordstqge - Physis piano H1 - Moog Prodigy - Piano Rodes MK2

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#2856111 - 05/19/17 07:13 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: Scottzo]
bill bosco Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/14
Posts: 313
just received the the live this week , i much prefer the tone
through the rock setting but the tremolo is too throbby to my
ears . anyway i found out you can disable the sim on the live
by holding the select and rotary buttons till the the rotary button lights red , then run it into a vent , the live came
alive . you have to check this out

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#2856112 - 05/19/17 07:52 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: bill bosco]
Delaware Dave Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2616
Loc: Take a guess ....
Originally Posted By: bill bosco
anyway i found out you can disable the sim on the live by holding the select and rotary buttons till the the rotary button lights red , then run it into a vent , the live came alive . you have to check this out
Are you saying that the Vent leslie sim is more realistic than the Viscount?
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57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; dyinbreedband.com; thewildthingsrock.webs.com

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#2856115 - 05/19/17 08:10 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: Delaware Dave]
davedoerfler Online   content
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Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 6073
Loc: thin ice
that's the way I am reading it, DD
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'88 Kawai 52" Upright,'61 Hammond A100,'81 Rhodes 88 Mark II Stage,'71 Wurlitzer 200, Clavinet E7, Moog Voyager, Leslies 142/Studio 12, Yamaha CP70, DSI Prophet 08, Arp Solina, Yamaha CP4, Crumar Mojo

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#2856157 - 05/19/17 12:16 PM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: Delaware Dave]
bill bosco Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/14
Posts: 313
it's not so much the sim itself , the sim is excellent , more
defined than the original keyb sim ( i have a keyb expander
to compare it to ) it's basically what the vent does to the tone.
the tube saturation does wonders for the sound , i guess much like what a 122 would do for it , it also softens the bottom end
a bit . it's got alot of character

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#2856288 - 05/20/17 04:35 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: bill bosco]
bill bosco Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/14
Posts: 313
been tweeking the midrange knob on the live and more or less
got the tone i was looking far in classic mode so yea , it is
working quite nicely without the vent . i think that's mostly difference between classic and rock , oh and fear not , the leslie sim IS excellent

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#2856323 - 05/20/17 08:33 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: bill bosco]
Delaware Dave Online   content
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Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2616
Loc: Take a guess ....
The leslie sim on the Viscount is the best I've heard of any sim, including the Vent. There were videos where I could hardly notice the difference between the sim and a real leslie. I do think the C/V is more aggressive than I like but imagine that C2 is probably more to my liking. Great piece of gear.
_________________________
57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; dyinbreedband.com; thewildthingsrock.webs.com

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#2856331 - 05/20/17 09:52 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: Delaware Dave]
bill bosco Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/14
Posts: 313
i guess to me , it's a tone thing , listening to it closely
i think the sim itself edges out the vent , but if you turn off the sim altogether the raw tone comes through and it's remarkable .
to my ears the internal sim ,especially the classic ( the better
of the two ) is coloring the sound somewhat in a way that's taking away from raw tone . through a leslie must be a fantasic

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#2856346 - 05/20/17 10:53 AM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: bill bosco]
Scottzo Offline
Member

Registered: 04/04/16
Posts: 6
So I should amend my early review. The keys feel pretty good. After just a few days playing the keyboard, I feel like they're already "breaking in" a little. This is a pretty amazing piece of gear - very, very happy with it!

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#2856357 - 05/20/17 12:00 PM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: Scottzo]
bill bosco Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/14
Posts: 313
absolutely

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#2856430 - 05/20/17 07:58 PM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: bill bosco]
Delaware Dave Online   content
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2616
Loc: Take a guess ....
Originally Posted By: bill bosco
i guess to me , it's a tone thing , listening to it closely
i think the sim itself edges out the vent , but if you turn off the sim altogether the raw tone comes through and it's remarkable .
to my ears the internal sim ,especially the classic ( the better
of the two ) is coloring the sound somewhat in a way that's taking away from raw tone . through a leslie must be a fantasic
I'm in between sets right now and we're playing outdoors. One set with the Gemini sim and one set with the vent. We played outdoors and I could hear the organ much better. Forget what I said above, the vent does something to the frequency response accentuation that the Gemini sim just doesn't do. The cabinet simulation and 3-D airiness just outshine the gemini sim. Looks like I'll be using the Vent going forward with the Gemini.
_________________________
57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; dyinbreedband.com; thewildthingsrock.webs.com

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#2856749 - 05/22/17 06:49 PM Re: viscount by KeyB Organ [Re: Delaware Dave]
bill bosco Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 01/20/14
Posts: 313
the more i play around with it , as far as vent vs. legend sim,
they're both good options . with the classic , rock, the 3 organ models and a little midrange tweaking you have a good range of
tone to work with .i can see the 3 models being very useful .
also , it transmits velocity pretty good , much like the numa ,
as i remember it .

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