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#2878692 - 09/12/17 03:12 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: jeffinpghpa]
OB Dave Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 947
Loc: San Diego CA, US
OK! So I finally bit the bullet and got a Mojo 61, and gigged with it for the first time last night. It sounds super greasy, I love it. It really has an authentic grind to it. And the CV is the best I've heard so far of any clone. I played through my mini-Leslie so I can't address how well the sim works in a live environment. I have more gigs this weekend so we'll see how that goes. But I did notice a few bugs which I reported to Crumar this morning. Wondering if anyone else has run up against these. (This is with the latest 1.23 firmware).

1. I had a stuck note after doing a bunch of palm glasses. Re-triggering didn't clear the note. I ended up rebooting. In retrospect I probably could have switched to a different sound and back, but I didn't think of it at the time.

2. It seems that things are not remembered properly through power cycles. The normal percussion level was a tad too loud for my taste, so I dialed it back with the web editor. After the power cycle, it had returned to the default value. But in other instances it seemed that stuff was correctly remembered through power cycles, so I don't know if this in an intermittent issue. I also noticed that the internal sim was re-enabled on power on. I think the organ should wake up in whatever state it was last in. In my case, since I was using a real Leslie, the sim should have stayed off until I explicitly re-enable it.

3. I too have noted the dropping wifi issue. It happened at home, and it happened at the club. One thing I did notice, it definitely does not seem to like multiple devices connecting. At the gig I was completely unable to connect with my phone, and eventually i discovered that my iPad had connected, so I did the editing there. That may not be a bad feature once you know about it, but the intermittent wifi drops are an annoyance.

I hope these issues can be addressed in subsequent code releases, because otherwise the instrument is an absolute joy to play.

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#2878727 - 09/12/17 05:05 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: OB Dave]
kenheeter Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/02/11
Posts: 111
You need to save your changes to the first snapshot slot, then they'll be remembered.

Ken

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#2878731 - 09/12/17 05:18 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: kenheeter]
OB Dave Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 947
Loc: San Diego CA, US
Ah. Duh. Thank you.

Is that documented somewhere? The manual doesn't have much to say about the web editor.

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#2878732 - 09/12/17 05:22 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: OB Dave]
Delaware Dave Online   content
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Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2731
Loc: Take a guess ....
Your observations are dead on. I reported similar issues to Crumar via their site comments section 6 months ago and never received a reply. I have the Gemini module and the same thing happens. Example, on the organ tremolo defaults to CC#30. The SW switch on my PC3 is set to default to CC30. I turned the tremolo default from CC30 to off. I then set the lower CV on/off on the Gemini to respond to CC30. I save the patch. So now lower CV responds to CC30 and tremolo is unassigned. A week later I would go to the gig and notice that the SW switch when activated now turns on both CV and tremolo. I'd go into the editor and turn CC30 off on the tremolo and save. The next gig it worked fine, the next gig after that the Tremolo was reassigned to CC30 again. This happened about 8 times. Finally the permanent fix was to reassign the SW switch to CC31 instead of 30 and assign lower CV to CC31. There are now no PC3 assignments on my organ patch that send CC30 so although the CC30 assignment has returned to the tremolo on the Gemini patch there is nothing on my PC3 that calls CC30 so tremolo never gets called. I brought this to Crumar's attention through their website but never received an acknowledgement. I also get the occasional stuck note although it has probably happened about 8 times in over a year that I've owned it. The other weird thing is that every once in a while I'll be playing the piano and hear what sounds like a heavy reverbed Leslie in the background for a few seconds. It has happened on about 4 gigs and most recently about a month ago where it did it 4-5 times in the first set. Hasn't done it since. I use a voltage regulator so I'm pretty sure it is not voltage drops causing the problem.

I use to have wifi connectivity issues where if I disconnected from the Gemini I could not reconnect unless I rebooted my tablet or phone (Android based). Since the last gemini update (firmware 1.16) wifi connectivity has been flawless.
_________________________
57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; dyinbreedband.com; thewildthingsrock.webs.com

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#2878789 - 09/13/17 02:14 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Delaware Dave]
sosho Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 49
Loc: germany
The stuck notes problem worries me . Do you remember under which circumstances you got stuck notes ? Cannot remember the last stuck note on any keyboard except when recording MIDI on an Atari.

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#2878812 - 09/13/17 06:38 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: sosho]
Delaware Dave Online   content
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Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2731
Loc: Take a guess ....
Like I said it has happened about 8 times in 15 months; so it happens once every two months; it hasn't happened in several months, so it isn't something I ever worry about or think of. I do recall that when it happens it is typically at places with unstable electric. It never happens when I'm triggering the module from my PC3, it typically happens when I'm trigger the organ from my 20 year old keyboard whose MIDI implementation has a couple of issues; so I'm thinking that it may be more keyboard related.
_________________________
57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; dyinbreedband.com; thewildthingsrock.webs.com

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#2878912 - 09/13/17 11:51 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Delaware Dave]
sosho Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 49
Loc: germany
I see , thank you very much

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#2878923 - 09/13/17 01:19 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: sosho]
Mitch Towne Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 946
I have done a million palm smears and fast playing and have never had the Mojo61 stick. Odd.

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#2878928 - 09/13/17 02:11 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Mitch Towne]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5372
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Something related to the external midi processing. A little tricky to narrow down wether it's on the Gemini side (at the MIDI io or in the software) or the sending device. This description makes me suspicious of the Gemini though. Definitely something to alert Crumar/GSi about so they can try to replicate and narrow down the culprit.
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#2878930 - 09/13/17 02:12 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Mitch Towne]
KeyMoe Offline
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Registered: 01/11/09
Posts: 1224
Loc: Texas
No stuck keys here either........
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Montage 8, Mojo 61, PC-3, ES-7, CX3, XK-3c Pro, XV-88, Fantom X-7, Kronos 88, Hammond SK-1, Motif XF- 7, PC361, Hammond SK-2, Roland FR-1, FR-1X, Hammond B3 - Blond, Hammond BV -Cherry

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#2878951 - 09/13/17 04:07 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Delaware Dave]
mobi Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/22/11
Posts: 67
Originally Posted By: Delaware Dave
it typically happens when I'm trigger the organ from my 20 year old keyboard whose MIDI implementation has a couple of issues; so I'm thinking that it may be more keyboard related.


I did notice this behavior since my first day with a Gemini, it's more frequent with my Studiologic's VMK-176 than with a PC3K7, also notice that with the Kurz only happens while using midi ports (not usb). IIRC haven't experienced this situation with my Kronos 2 and Montage as master controllers for the Gemini module.

In those days ( I've got my Gemini just released) sent a couple of emails to Guido he said that they weren't able to reproduce this behavior in the lab.

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#2880265 - 09/19/17 01:09 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: mobi]
OB Dave Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 947
Loc: San Diego CA, US
I tried an experiment last night.

For the past several years my standard gig rig has been a Stage 2 through K10s, and SK-1 through a Leslie. I give the house the right channel of the Stage 2, and the upper and lower rotors on the Leslie are miked. So, I monitor in stereo, but the house gets the three mono feeds, although the house runs stereo.

Played a small no-instruments-in-PA gig over the weekend and just brought the Mojo and the K10s. For that gig, the K10s are behind me because that's the only amplification the Mojo gets. The sim actually sounds pretty decent.

So, at last night's weekly gig, I decided to bring a little Rolls mixer and a stereo DI. Ran the Stage 2 and the Mojo through the Rolls with K10s as monitors as usual, and gave the house both channels. Also brought the Leslie, but told the sound man to mute those channels till further notice because I was going to play the first set sans Leslie.

And you know what? It sounded pretty awesome. I had one K10 on each side of me, so I was sitting in a nice immersive sound field. I'm used to that for piano, but it was an interesting change for organ.

Is the Mojo's Leslie sim as good as the real deal? No, it's not. But! It's the closest thing I've heard so far, and for the first time ever, I was able to play a Leslie-less gig without feeling completely crippled. It was actually quite nice. A different sound, but a pleasing one.

Nobody in the band, and a Hammond freak in the audience did not know about the switcheroo until I told them at set break. I am reminded of the old margarine commercial where Mother Nature gets fooled by the not-butter.

Right now my biggest issue with the Mojo is that there's not a way to assign the routing of various instruments to different outputs, so if you want to use the Mojo with both a Leslie and conventional amps, you need some sort of external signal routing. I don't normally bring a mixer but I had one last night, so I played most of the first set's Rhodes and AP songs on the Mojo. The Rhodes is epic. Probably the most responsive pseudoRhodes I've ever played.

The AP, is OK. It's not great, but it's good enough. Certainly way better than the AP in the SK1. But listening to the recording, it cuts through the mix well. I can live with it.

I switched back to Leslie for the second set, and Mojo -> Leslie is pretty much indistinguishable from the real thing. It's that good. And I say that having owned:

Hammond M3
Hammond M3
Korg BX-3 (original)
Voce V-3
Voce V-5
Hammond C2
Hammond-Suzuki XB-2
Hammond XM-1 / XM1c
Nord Electro 2
Nord Stage 2
Hammond-Suzuki SK1
KeyboardPartner HX-3

The only wrinkle to last night's Mojo joy was that the control panel locked up on me. The instrument still played, and it seemed that I was able to select new voices, but the LEDs on the control panel did not update. Had to reboot. That's a little worrisome as it's the second glitch I've encountered in three gigs.

Still, I'm going all-in on this instrument. I eventually plan to get a second one as a backup which will be set up in the rehearsal space, and since I've been wanting to clear out some old gear will soon be selling the Electro 2, SK1, Ventilator, the HX-3, and my 1972 Rhodes.

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#2880279 - 09/19/17 02:21 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: OB Dave]
sosho Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 49
Loc: germany
Well as long as it still plays ;-) no more stuck notes ?I am used to my electro 2 , sounds very mediocre but it is totally reliable,still . But the sounds are not inspiring anymore. Just checked an hx3 and liked it a lot but was not able to compare it to a mojo. I am very curious but a bit intimidated (?) ;-)

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#2881291 - 09/24/17 11:13 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: OB Dave]
sosho Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 49
Loc: germany
How is the mojo leslie compared to the vent in your opinion since you want to sell your vent ? Just bought the other GSI organ TIA

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#2881427 - 09/25/17 08:34 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: sosho]
Jazz+ Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5509
Never has my Mojo locked up. The Rhodes is epic (plays with a light touch) and the organ beats all the other clones, imo. I was never tempted by any of the Electros, tried them all extensively.... I owned a SK 1 and Mojo 61 at the same time and the mojo won big time.
_________________________
Casio PX-360 digital piano. (26 lbs, has 4 internal speakers); Mojo 61. Sibelius 6, Transcribe!, 2 EV SxA360 powered speakers; 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano. Mackie 12" mixer, iPhone 6.

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#2881431 - 09/25/17 08:42 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Jazz+]
Stokely Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1601
Loc: Florida
I'm definitely interested in this thing...need to sell my vr700 first, easier said than done (locally at least!)

The electro makes a bit more sense sound-wise (as I'd use the non-organ sounds, at least as a backup) but I don't like the keybed on it.

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#2881439 - 09/25/17 09:02 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Stokely]
Joe BrokeIt Offline
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Registered: 02/21/05
Posts: 19102
Loc: Heaven, Hell, or Houston
Originally Posted By: Stokely
I'm definitely interested in this thing...need to sell my vr700 first, easier said than done (locally at least!)

The electro makes a bit more sense sound-wise (as I'd use the non-organ sounds, at least as a backup) but I don't like the keybed on it.
Which ones? The Mojo 61 has acoustic piano, Rhodes, Wurly, and Clav.

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#2881443 - 09/25/17 09:07 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: sosho]
Outkaster Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/25/06
Posts: 5781
Loc: Rochester, NY
Originally Posted By: sosho
How is the mojo leslie compared to the vent in your opinion since you want to sell your vent ? Just bought the other GSI organ TIA


Both Vents blow it away.
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#2881454 - 09/25/17 09:49 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Outkaster]
Spider76 Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/01/13
Posts: 358
Originally Posted By: Outkaster
Vents blow it away.


roll
(involuntary pun?)

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#2881457 - 09/25/17 10:05 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Spider76]
Jazz+ Offline
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Registered: 05/15/04
Posts: 5509
Don't expect much from the AP.... it is the main weakness of the M 61
_________________________
Casio PX-360 digital piano. (26 lbs, has 4 internal speakers); Mojo 61. Sibelius 6, Transcribe!, 2 EV SxA360 powered speakers; 1966 Mason & Hamlin piano. Mackie 12" mixer, iPhone 6.

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#2881459 - 09/25/17 10:08 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Joe BrokeIt]
Stokely Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 12/15/12
Posts: 1601
Loc: Florida
Originally Posted By: Joe Muscara
Originally Posted By: Stokely
I'm definitely interested in this thing...need to sell my vr700 first, easier said than done (locally at least!)

The electro makes a bit more sense sound-wise (as I'd use the non-organ sounds, at least as a backup) but I don't like the keybed on it.
Which ones? The Mojo 61 has acoustic piano, Rhodes, Wurly, and Clav.


I just meant that after my recent pc3 issue (refused to boot during a gig) I try to have coverage for most if not all sounds. That would include some synths and strings.

That said, I've reconciled that it's only a few songs considering our tunes, and in a pinch almost all of them can be done with organ, EP and piano. The few that can't we'd drop for that night, or until I could bring out the singer's backup juno-d that I usually tote. Or, I could fold an ipad into my rig for synths, which would be partly for fun and trying something new.

In return, I'd get a smaller footprint (the 76 notes of the vr700 are both unused and a pain on some stages), a lighter board and a better organ, and I use organ quite a bit. Gotta have something you are looking to upgrade, I think it's one of the musician commandments.


Edited by Stokely (09/25/17 10:10 AM)

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#2881595 - 09/26/17 01:52 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Stokely]
sosho Online   content
Senior Member

Registered: 05/02/08
Posts: 49
Loc: germany
the GSI Gemini apparently has the same organ , EP s plus synth and it can provide 2 sounds at the same time . i ordered one with their spaceship looking dual manual controller because I think I can play my gigs with this alone ( and a backup ?)and it is smaller than the other similar models. I was not able to try it before , awaiting delivery

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#2886410 - 10/21/17 09:38 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: sosho]
OB Dave Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 947
Loc: San Diego CA, US
Well, dang. I just discovered that the Mojo 61 does not send program changes, and the MIDI implementation chart confirms this. There's no option to enable this.

This is a huge bummer. Since the Mojo only has two outputs and doesn't do any signal routing, there's no easy way to send the organ signal to a Leslie and the other voices to standard amps. I was hoping to build a little box that would route the outputs automatically based on program change. Actually, that's not quite true. I just finished building the box and only now discovered I can't make it work the way I'd like.

I'd assumed it sent program changes. Perhaps a mistake, but it doesn't strike me as an unreasonable assumption...

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#2886431 - 10/22/17 05:50 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: OB Dave]
ElmerJFudd Offline
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Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5372
Loc: USA, greater NY area
Definitely something to email them about as owner feedback - hoping to see in firmware update?
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Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

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#2886436 - 10/22/17 07:19 AM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: OB Dave]
Delaware Dave Online   content
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Registered: 04/21/11
Posts: 2731
Loc: Take a guess ....
Originally Posted By: OB Grave
Well, dang. I just discovered that the Mojo 61 does not send program changes, and the MIDI implementation chart confirms this. There's no option to enable this.

This is a huge bummer. Since the Mojo only has two outputs and doesn't do any signal routing, there's no easy way to send the organ signal to a Leslie and the other voices to standard amps. I was hoping to build a little box that would route the outputs automatically based on program change. Actually, that's not quite true. I just finished building the box and only now discovered I can't make it work the way I'd like.

I'd assumed it sent program changes. Perhaps a mistake, but it doesn't strike me as an unreasonable assumption...

The Gemini module, in the effects section, has a panning feature. I pan the organ left and all other instruments to the right, allowing me to use the Vent. Did you check the effects section on the Mojo to see if there is panning available? I'm hoping for a Mojo 73/76 to come out but it has to have panning or a dedicated Leslie 1/4" out or it would be a deal breaker for me. It also has to have a Gemini module.
_________________________
57 Hammond B3; 69 Hammond L100P; 68 Leslie 122; Kurzweil PC3; GEM Equinox; Voce V5+; Neo Vent; EV ELX112P; GSI Gemini Desktop Module; dyinbreedband.com; thewildthingsrock.webs.com

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#2886481 - 10/22/17 01:21 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: Delaware Dave]
OB Dave Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 947
Loc: San Diego CA, US
I did email them yesterday. They're weren't especially receptive to my previous inquiry. I hope I have better luck this time around.

The Mojo has no panning options or output routing. It's an issue for me. I wasn't going to let it be a deal breaker because I figured I could nerd my way out of this problem by using MIDI Program Change messages to control my signal routing.

I wish I'd known the Mojo doesn't send them before I went through all this, but I guess that's what happens when you leap before you look. I guess in the meantime I'll have to resort to detecting unlikely combinations of notes played to control my signal routing.



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#2886483 - 10/22/17 01:42 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: OB Dave]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5372
Loc: USA, greater NY area
This Sipario MIDI Command Center looks very useful.
You could probably use it to send program change to the Mojo and your audio routing device.

http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads.php/topics/2871501/Lab4Music_Sipario_Midi_Command

It definitely looks a nice match for the Gemini module when using it with a pretty dumb midi controller like the Roland FP-30.
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Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

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#2886494 - 10/22/17 02:13 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: ElmerJFudd]
OB Dave Offline
Gold Member

Registered: 04/25/09
Posts: 947
Loc: San Diego CA, US
Or I could just put a button on my box. smile

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#2886498 - 10/22/17 02:37 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: OB Dave]
ElmerJFudd Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/30/14
Posts: 5372
Loc: USA, greater NY area
smile depends on how far you want to go with this box and how much you like the other aspects of the Mojo 61.

On a side topic: there's been some love for the Roland FA-07 lately.
Would it ever be in the realm of possibility that you do a single production run of the OB-1 in black?
_________________________
Live: Yamaha S90ES, Roland VR-700
Home: Rebuilt 1910 Chickering 5'2", Fender Rhodes MKI 88k

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#2886504 - 10/22/17 02:51 PM Re: Crumar Mojo 61 Review - (LONG) [Re: OB Dave]
ZioGuido Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 08/19/05
Posts: 241
Originally Posted By: OB Grave
Well, dang. I just discovered that the Mojo 61 does not send program changes


I'm taking note for the next firmware update:

1. Send velocity from the lower manual
2. Clavinet note-off at the bottom contact
3. Send MIDI program change events when switching between the 8 sounds
4. Split output option* (organs on the left, pianos on the right)

What else?

Expect it in mid-November.

*Since the Mojo-61 is mono-timbral, I see a high risk of misinterpretation of a "split" output option... we'd rather call it "output selection" or "OB-Dave Option" smile

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