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#2890366 - 11/15/17 12:09 AM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: hardware]
SteveQB Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/11/14
Posts: 204
Loc: Devon, UK
I have mine mounted on pedal board. Levels are pretty much set and forget as my patches are pre-programmed and balanced.

I have found the monitor outs power my IEMs well. I use a 2x1/4" TS to 1x1/4" TRS cable plugged into fischer passive attenuator belt clip then into my IEMs
_________________________
Nord Stage 2EX | Nord Wave | Mainstage 3
K&M Spider Pro | JH Audio JH5 IEMs | Behringer XR18 | Radial Keylargo

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KC Island
#2890392 - 11/15/17 06:12 AM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: SteveQB]
dongna Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 12/21/05
Posts: 362
Another +1 on the rack mount... hopefully Radial is listening.

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#2890512 - 11/15/17 05:59 PM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: cphollis]
cphollis Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 2082
Loc: Massachussets, Florida
Originally Posted By: cphollis
Next on my list. Gonna digest the QSC K8.2s I've just ordered, and the Key Largo is next on my GAS list.


Well, it took longer than I thought, but tried out my new KL in my signal chain, replacing a Yamaha MG06 mixer. Nord Piano 2 and Electro 4D through KL to a pair of RCF TT08-a units.

Did some A/B, no question whatsoever that it improved my sound: clearer, more punch, better handling of transients -- the whole ball of wax. The better your sound system, the more you want this nifty box.

It also neatly solved my problem of adjusting my stage monitors without dorking the FOH mix. Now I'm sorry I waited so long to upgrade my mixer/pre stage.

Not using the switches, but am going to eventually buy that overpriced volume pedal and trick cables needed to make it work. I also tried out my new Vent II at the same time, nice upgrade from the stock sim I've been using.

Our FOH is stereo (I'm the sound guy), so no issues mixing to mono. And, TimWat, the red color pairs nicely with my red Nords smile If I ever decide to go to a laptop, I'm all set there as well.

Suhweeet!
_________________________
Life is too short to be playing bad music.

Keys: Nord Piano 2, Stage 3 Compact, other stuff
Amps: FA 12acs, RCF TT08as, QSC Ks, SSv3
Stuff: Stay stands, Key Largo, Vent II, X-Air 16

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#2890553 - 11/16/17 04:09 AM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: cphollis]
Electro Fan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 382
Loc: Maine
I posed this question over at the FB Clonewheel Organ group, but I will throw it out here as well. Is it possible to run a OD type pedal like the Organ Grinder or Tall & Fat into the KL’s efx loop?

A member there tried it for me with both his Tall&Fat and Vent and did not care for the results. He mentioned experimenting with mono vs stereo setup or using just the Vent or T&F. I am interested to hear what he comes up with. It would seem that it might be able to share the OD effect between two boards, such as a clonewheel and an ep sound on another board.

Do OD type effects need a direct signal from a line level device?



Edited by Electro Fan (11/16/17 04:11 AM)
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61, Casio PX-5S, Yamaha DXR 10 (2)), Neo Vent, Yamaha MG82cx mixer and too many stands to name.

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#2890603 - 11/16/17 08:55 AM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: Electro Fan]
mate stubb Offline
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 15591
T&F does not work well. The reason is that the output of the pedal inverts the signal, which causes cancellation when in a loop. I confirmed this with the designer of the pedal.

Vent wouldn't make sense to run in a loop as you generally want 100% effected sound.

Generally though any effect that you are going to run 100% wet should not have this problem.
_________________________
Moe
---
Kawai Novus: "Please feel surprised even more."

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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#2890628 - 11/16/17 01:07 PM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: mate stubb]
Electro Fan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/11/10
Posts: 382
Loc: Maine
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
T&F does not work well. The reason is that the output of the pedal inverts the signal, which causes cancellation when in a loop. I confirmed this with the designer of the pedal.

Vent wouldn't make sense to run in a loop as you generally want 100% effected sound.

Generally though any effect that you are going to run 100% wet should not have this problem.


Moe,

Thanks for the clarification. I now have a better understanding of how the T&F works and using effect loops.

Bill
_________________________
Korg Kronos 61, Casio PX-5S, Yamaha DXR 10 (2)), Neo Vent, Yamaha MG82cx mixer and too many stands to name.

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#2890629 - 11/16/17 01:52 PM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: Electro Fan]
bjosko Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/04/05
Posts: 137
Loc: Denmark
Got mine a couple days ago, and tried it on rehearsal with my setup.
-heavy
-simple
-expensive
-solid
-and worth the money.
I am running NS3 and DMC122/Gemini with monitor out to a Spacestation, and Main through a Behringer X Air 18.
The SS sounded fine, but found a lot on the FOH.
I also found out that one or both channels I was using on the Xair was defective, thin and no bottom, think one of the preamps are dead.
Changed to 2 other channels, and that changed the sound to the better.

The signal was a bit lower than from my previous cheap Behringer 10Ch mixer, but way more detailed, and no hiss or noise.
The NS sounded fine out FOH, but the organ from my DMC was way to bassy (and I think our sub was set to loud), keyclick much louder than before, so I need to dig into the Gemini and adjust the organ settings.

USB / Ipad connection would have been great, what are missing, a license from Apple, or hardware in the KL? But I know that it was not possible when I order it, so all in all I am happy.
_________________________
/Bjørn - old gearjunkie, still with lot of GAS

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#2894465 - 12/07/17 07:32 AM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: bjosko]
Sam Mullins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 08/21/07
Posts: 1328
Loc: Iowa City, Iowa
I wanted to run a potential use case by the experts here to see if the Key-Largo will fit the bill. Basically I want to use a keyboard amp (Spacestation) as both a keyboard amp and vocal monitor at same time; specifically:

a) Use channels 1 and 2 for keyboard inputs
b) Use channel 3 to take monitor mix from house board
c) Feed only channels 1 and 2 to main outputs (to house board)
d) Feed 1,2 and 3 (with custom balance) to SpaceStation.

To accomplish d), I'm assuming I can't use the monitor outputs since it will have the same mix as the mains (i.e. 1 and 2 only)
But it looks like I could use the EFX send to feed the SpaceStation and get the desired functionality. This means that channel 3 would have level set to 0 so that it wouldn't go to mains, but EFX level set to desired vocal monitor level to feed SpaceStation.

Does that work?
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88, Korg Kronos 2 61, DSI Prophet 08 Module, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2
www.stickmanor.com
There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman

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#2894514 - 12/07/17 09:45 AM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: Sam Mullins]
mate stubb Offline
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 15591
Not sure EFX can be hot for a channel if channel level is off. Check a block diagram of the KL on the radial site and see if effects are post or pre channel gain.
_________________________
Moe
---
Kawai Novus: "Please feel surprised even more."

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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#2894517 - 12/07/17 09:53 AM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: mate stubb]
Sam Mullins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 08/21/07
Posts: 1328
Loc: Iowa City, Iowa
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Not sure EFX can be hot for a channel if channel level is off. Check a block diagram of the KL on the radial site and see if effects are post or pre channel gain.


Good point..checked the diagram and the effects are post channel gain. So much for that idea.

I have a working solution for my most common situation: duo gig where we mix ourselves with Soundcraft Signature 12; it has enough flexibility to get the correct things to mains and amp. Was just looking for something smaller in cases where we were using club's FOH. But in most of those cases, I will probably have a dedicated vocal monitor anyway.

Thanks!
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88, Korg Kronos 2 61, DSI Prophet 08 Module, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2
www.stickmanor.com
There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman

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#2894662 - 12/08/17 01:24 AM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: Sam Mullins]
stoken6 Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/12/12
Posts: 1543
Originally Posted By: Sam Mullins
I wanted to run a potential use case by the experts here to see if the Key-Largo will fit the bill. Basically I want to use a keyboard amp (Spacestation) as both a keyboard amp and vocal monitor at same time; specifically:

a) Use channels 1 and 2 for keyboard inputs
b) Use channel 3 to take monitor mix from house board
c) Feed only channels 1 and 2 to main outputs (to house board)
d) Feed 1,2 and 3 (with custom balance) to SpaceStation.

To accomplish d), I'm assuming I can't use the monitor outputs since it will have the same mix as the mains (i.e. 1 and 2 only)
But it looks like I could use the EFX send to feed the SpaceStation and get the desired functionality. This means that channel 3 would have level set to 0 so that it wouldn't go to mains, but EFX level set to desired vocal monitor level to feed SpaceStation.


As previously stated, this won't work, but could you do it the other way round:
a) Use channels 1 and 2 for keyboard inputs
b) Use channel 3 to take monitor mix from house board
c) Feed 1,2 and 3 (with custom balance) to main outputs (on to spacestation)
d) Feed only channels 1 and 2 to main outputs (to house board) using EFX output. (For example, if you set channel 1+2 EFX to 100%, you'll get the same mix FoH as you do in your spacestation. Leave channel 3 at 0 so it doesn't go back to mains)

That's not perfect, obviously, but it might be good enough if you want the same mix (of your keyboards) in FoH and your monitor.

Cheers, Mike.
_________________________
AX48.PM351.FC7.VFP2
One or two keyboards.

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#2894687 - 12/08/17 07:23 AM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: stoken6]
Sam Mullins Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 08/21/07
Posts: 1328
Loc: Iowa City, Iowa
Originally Posted By: stoken6

As previously stated, this won't work, but could you do it the other way round:
a) Use channels 1 and 2 for keyboard inputs
b) Use channel 3 to take monitor mix from house board
c) Feed 1,2 and 3 (with custom balance) to main outputs (on to spacestation)
d) Feed only channels 1 and 2 to main outputs (to house board) using EFX output. (For example, if you set channel 1+2 EFX to 100%, you'll get the same mix FoH as you do in your spacestation. Leave channel 3 at 0 so it doesn't go back to mains)

That's not perfect, obviously, but it might be good enough if you want the same mix (of your keyboards) in FoH and your monitor.

Cheers, Mike.


Ah, good points. I guess the main downside is that you aren't getting the DI functionality of using the mains to go to FOH.

Thanks for the idea.
_________________________
Nord Stage 2 HA88, Korg Kronos 2 61, DSI Prophet 08 Module, Moog Sub 37, Yamaha U1 Upright, Spacestation V.3, QSC K10.2
www.stickmanor.com
There's a thin white line between fear and fury - Stickman

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#2894695 - 12/08/17 07:58 AM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: Sam Mullins]
Barryjam Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 10/03/05
Posts: 261
Loc: Auburn, Northern CA
This is why I stick with a rack mount mixer that is overkill:

I need stereo outs XLR to FOH.
I need separate stereo outs to my two monitors.
I need mono input from an aux send of band's main mixer to give me vocal and some instruments in my monitors ONLY and NOT going back to FOH.

If there was a Super Key Largo that could handle all three of these requirements, I would be tempted.

On the other hand, my Allen & Heath QU-sb gives me all of that plus effects, compression, separate EQs per mix, memorized settings per band and venue. Plus it doubles as up to a 32 channel full featured mixer, takes 4 rack spaces x 6" depth, for only about twice the cost of a KeyLargo. Mixes totally from IPad, and I have never had network issues.
_________________________
Barry

Home: Steinway L, Bob Schleicher A100 chop, 142 Leslie.

Gigs: Yamaha CP4, Crumar Mojo 61, Ventilator II. Lounsbury H&F. A&H QUsb mixer, Crown & QSC amps, JBL SRX-700 series speakers

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#2894697 - 12/08/17 08:13 AM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: Barryjam]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 11316
Loc: St. Louis, MO
And that's why I simplify my rig. One keyboard that makes sound (and one controller for my 2nd tier) and running mono. Guitar through a Pod running mono. 2-channel DI takes those to FOH. loop out of the DI's to a little 4-ch line mixer and into Ch B of the K10. Vocal mic through Ch A and onto FOH. If I get a monitor mix from FOH (which I often don't), I can either run it into the line mixer as part of my mix, or if I want to rely on it I skip the mixer altogether (I do this when we run a digital mixer and I can mix from my iPhone). Sure makes things easier with mono signals, no submixing, and a single monitor!
_________________________
Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2894716 - 12/08/17 10:21 AM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: J. Dan]
mate stubb Offline
Grand Poobah of the Trebuchet
10k Club

Registered: 10/26/03
Posts: 15591
Here's how I do it - a bit odd I admit.

My KL is mounted on my pedalboard, prewired for power and to my Vent. I also use the stomp switches on it - sustain for a secondary sustain button and the fx button provides a solo boost.

DI outputs to FOH, monitor outputs to my speaks or in ears. Standard setup in other words.

Except... I can't adjust keys balance (solved by gainstaging my patches correctly and individual kbd volume controls) and I can't adjust my monitor level on a crowded stage by reaching down. This is a PITA. Also, using in ears I cannot mix the rest of the band back in (the OP's problem above) without giving up the beautiful sounding transformer outputs for main.

So, I feed a second tiny mixer, my Yam MX06. I stuck it in a tiny box with its power supply and it sits on the light board next to me. FOH gets the great KL sound, I run the KL monitor outputs into the MX, run a monitor feed from the band into the MX, and I can drive in ears directly from the MX HP output, with handy volume control next to me.

A little odd, but all keys go directly to the pedalboard on short bundled wires without having to be strung all over the place, and should I wish to not use the extra mixer, I can. It is so tiny however that it just tucks into my cord bag.
_________________________
Moe
---
Kawai Novus: "Please feel surprised even more."

http://www.hotrodmotm.com

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#2894933 - 12/10/17 12:51 AM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: mate stubb]
agitato Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 04/29/10
Posts: 308
How does the sound quality of the key largo mixer compare with allen & heath zed6?

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#2895027 - 12/10/17 07:34 PM Re: Radial Key-Largo Mixer, DI, USB [Re: mate stubb]
ShadowMan Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 03/29/08
Posts: 162
Originally Posted By: mate stubb
Here's how I do it - a bit odd I admit..


I've come up with a similar workaround to yours - albeit not using a KL.

I use a Rolls Mini Mixer mounted on my lower keyboard. It does a pretty good job of balancing my levels to my amp (or FOH thru a Radial DI) in a VERY small footprint. I feed the headphone out into IEM's or monitor wedges and was looking at ways to get a PA monitor feed into the mix - and at a recent gig I came up came up with a quick & dirty solution.

I have a spare Rolls, so I velcro'ed one on top of the other. I fed my keyboards into the top one, sending the stereo outs to my SpaceStation/sub. The top headphone output fed a 1/4 TRS to stereo 1/4 cable into the bottom Rolls - along with a mono monitor feed from the PA. I was able to balance myself and PA and ride gain as needed. It worked great - I could clearly hear the vocals, and enough guitar, bass and drums came through.

But I'd still love one mixer that can do all of this.

Maybe on Key Largo Rev 2?

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