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#2821733 - 12/16/16 12:07 PM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Dave Bryce]
HammondDave Offline
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Yeah. That seems pretty obvious as he plays mellotron parts on several keyboards. I assume they were MIDI'ed to his Memotron.
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#2821734 - 12/16/16 12:08 PM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: HammondDave]
HammondDave Offline
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How exactly does that Sycologic work?


Edited by HammondDave (12/16/16 12:09 PM)
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#2821739 - 12/16/16 12:45 PM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: HammondDave]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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IIRC, the M16 is a 16x16 MIDI I/O box which allows up to 32 routing configurations, saveable as recallable scenes. Consists of a 2 ru module that's in the rack behind him, and a separate switcher/controller which Rick keeps on his Fantom.



dB
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#2821743 - 12/16/16 12:58 PM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: HammondDave]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: HammondDave
Yeah. That seems pretty obvious as he plays mellotron parts on several keyboards. I assume they were MIDI'ed to his Memotron.

You probably shouldn't... hitt grin

One of the questions I asked him was basically along the lines of "Are all the Hammond sounds we're hearing coming from the Hammond, etc." I got an emphatic "NO" back. Both Erik and Rick said that many of the sound sources in his rig were great for his bread and butter sounds...and, as mentioned above, that any sound he's playing at one time was probably coming from more than one sound source. They love stacking.

I also asked if they ever use the keyboards that are capable in multimode to get extra stacking power, and was told they did indeed.

Keep in mind that in addition to all the keyboards, there's a bunch of rack synths as well - Triton, MOTIF, Fantom, X5DR....

dB
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#2821747 - 12/16/16 01:14 PM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Dave Bryce]
The Real MC Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
IIRC, the M16 is a 16x16 MIDI I/O box which allows up to 32 routing configurations, saveable as recallable scenes. Consists of a 2 ru module that's in the rack behind him, and a separate switcher/controller which Rick keeps on his Fantom.


Programmable MIDI routers are very underrated boxes. I still use two in my studio and one for the road. When you have a large MIDI system they are a necessity.

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#2821749 - 12/16/16 01:18 PM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: The Real MC]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Originally Posted By: The Real MC
Programmable MIDI routers are very underrated boxes. I still use two in my studio and one for the road. When you have a large MIDI system they are a necessity.

Back in the late 80s I had a similar box called a Voyce LX4 running Battlestar Bryce. It was so cool to be able to type in two digits and have all my program changes and routings drop into place automatically.



dB
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#2821807 - 12/16/16 10:46 PM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Dave Bryce]
Synthaholic Offline
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#2821878 - 12/17/16 08:56 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: HammondDave]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: HammondDave
How exactly does that Sycologic work?


Let me tell ya ´cause I own 2 M16 w/ 2 M16R (remote) and one of the M16X expanders .
I became aware of that system when I was backstage at a Michael Jackson gig and experienced the soundcheck including a runthru of all the program changes.
That was in 1987.

The basic unit is the M16 w/ 16 MIDI Ins called SOURCEs and 16 MIDI Outs called DESTINATIONs.

1st restriction:
SOURCE #16 is used for internal MIDI communication and it´s not been recommended to connect timing critical MIDI devices,- p.ex. MIDI clock, sequencers, drum machines or similar.

2nd restriction:
You can route ONE Source on several destinations but you cannot merge several sources to only one destination.

3rd restriction:
Even there are 16 physical MIDI I/Os, there are 16 MIDI channels only.
So, even the machine passes thru ALL what comes down a connected MIDI line (cable), there´s just only ONE MIDI channel to transmit MIDI PrgChange commands per Destination (MIDI Out).

4th restriction:
There´s no MIDI sysex dump,- instead, the machine stores and dumps everything user preset related as "pitchwheel" and "velocity" data which you can record to a sequencer and play back too.
But, there can be timeout errors and you´ll have to deal w/ some parameters to find best match w/ your sequencer (hardware or software and MIDI interface).

The machine stores 32 user presets which are MIDI routings as well as MIDI program changes.
NO controller offsets available !

For changing patches, the machine responds to the remote controller´s numerical keypad OR to MIDI PrgChanges itself where you have to define a "MON" (monitor) channel.

It also acts as a MIDI monitor showing MIDI data running down the line.

You can name presets according to songs to be performed and re-name.

Advantage over other matrix routers:

You don´t have to set up every piece of your gear to a different MIDI channel,- in fact all works also when everything being connected to a Source and Destination is on MIDI Ch. #1.
So, the 16 MIDI channels work per MIDI port, but only one at a time.

There was a M16X Expander Unit available w/ add. 16 MIDI outs.
It was been connected to a M16 w/ a short ribbon cable and it was possible to connect 2 of these creating a 16-In / 48-Out MIDI matrix router/program changer.

The memory backup battery is rechargeable,- once there is a power cord plugged in into the machine it will automatically be loaded regardless if the machine itself is been switched on or off.

You can kill the machine w/ electrostatic charging,- so don´t wear the wrong shoes while standing on the wrong floor ... grin

Nonetheless, no biggie,- it never loses the memory content and continues to work,- but the remote-controller´s display becomes unreadable and patchnames might become corrupted/cryptic in memory.
MIDI routing and program changes aren´t affected and you still can switch patches via MIDI. Insane.
MIDI latency is awesome for live gigging.

Even it´s not up to date, it´s one of the most reliable machines I ever bought.

For the processing I combined it w/ the Miditemp PMM88 and later the PMM88E.
That way the Syco became a large MIDI thru box w/ programmable routing while all te processing incl. programm changes now came from the Miditemp.

Very best combo for large rigs ´til today.

There are some rare parts inside, typically CMOS and cross matrix ICs.
Already in the 90s all service parts etc. belonged to Peter Gabriels "Real World" studio.
Peter used the Sycos too and IIRC,- his brother,- ran the Syco Systems company from the beginning.
"Real World" Studio build a 5HU box which was the Syco M16 and 2 M16X circuit boards in one box,- the M48.

Well, the "Real World" guys were extremely friendly and helpfull ´cause I got a service manual as well as some spare parts.
But already at that time there were not enough parts left over to build a single M48.

I guess Rick grabbed as much parts as possible too to keep his system alive.

Tony Banks had one too b.t.w., then swapped it for 2 Miditemp PMM88E.

Today the Syco together w/ a Miditemp can possibly be replaced by Copperlan in a MIDI network using a network router and Alyseum MIDI interfaces.
Copperlan cann do some processing like merging, re-channelizing, routing, transposition, but not everything a Miditemp can do.

But then, you have to have a computer being active all the time since the Copperlan manager runs in Windows or OS X.
It does not work on iOS and Android though.

A.C.
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#2821881 - 12/17/16 09:07 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Al Coda]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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FWIW, there are instruments in Rick's rig that they said do not play nicely with the M16. IIRC, the Hammond and Montage were the two he mentioned.

dB
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#2822024 - 12/18/16 06:13 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Dave Bryce]
joegerardi Offline
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Always liked the the idea of the Sycologic, but after reading that, I'm content to stick with my Digital Music MX-8: 16 Ins, 16 Outs, Merging, 64 memory locations, and accepts program changes from a pedal or any MIDI instrument connected to it.

..Joe
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#2822042 - 12/18/16 08:10 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: joegerardi]
mate stubb Offline
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I had an MX-8. I thought it had 6 inputs and 8 outputs. idk
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#2822046 - 12/18/16 08:53 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: mate stubb]
EscapeRocks Offline
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Originally Posted By: mate stubb
I had an MX-8. I thought it had 6 inputs and 8 outputs. idk


You are correct

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#2822144 - 12/18/16 10:19 PM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Dave Bryce]
Al Coda Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dave Bryce
FWIW, there are instruments in Rick's rig that they said do not play nicely with the M16. IIRC, the Hammond and Montage were the two he mentioned.dB


I never had that w/ any keyboard or module and there were many over the decades.

Don´t mind,- the Syco is outdated.
Early in this thread I already wondered why he´s touring w/ the old Sycos.

You cannot buy it new and you´ll rarely find a Syco at ebay, especially not in good condition because there´s almost noone out there who can do the service.
The rechargable VARTA battery-blocks not only are unavailable since a long time, they also will leak and destroy the circuitry when the machine is unused/in stock for a long time.

I replaced mine by better ones w/ higher capacity, also VARTA,- and before any leak happened.

But when you have many MIDI keyboards and modules in the studio,- the Syco still makes sense.
In a studio, you need only the routing and fast access to a pre-wired rig.
Presets, program changes and data processing are 2nd row ´cause it´s done in a DAW for total recall.

The remote controller w/ display and keypad, in a comfortable position somewhere on your console or masterkeyboard, allows doing MIDI connections on the fly.
That´s why I kept the Sycos.

A.C.
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#2822165 - 12/19/16 04:48 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Al Coda]
joegerardi Offline
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Geez- I don't know why I wrote 16. I still have one now.

CRS rearing it's ugly head again...

..Joe
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#2822202 - 12/19/16 10:18 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: joegerardi]
The Real MC Offline
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Three JLCooper MSB+ routers in my system. Two for the studio, one for the road.

Rugged and flexible, pretty good for a 1986 design. No custom ICs inside, standard TTL, no MIDI compatibility issues.

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#2822961 - 12/22/16 12:35 PM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: The Real MC]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Wakeman interviews are up!





The first one's him showing us around the rig. The second one is just us chatting a bit about it.

Thanks again to steadyb for shooting the video.

dB
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#2822968 - 12/22/16 01:02 PM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Dave Bryce]
Bill W Offline
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Very nice, Dave....thanks!
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#2822982 - 12/22/16 01:39 PM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Bill W]
Markyboard Offline
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WOW! I couldn't pull myself away to do what I was supposed to be doing. What a fabulous interview discussion. Any chance you invited Rick to the Redkey lounge? idea

Nicely done Dave and thank you Byron! twothumbs
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#2823032 - 12/22/16 03:48 PM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Markyboard]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Here's the official link

There's an expression on my face at about 7:13 when he's talking about his Hammonds and he mentions the one he used on Close To The Edge. The reason for the odd expression is that it flashes in my head that he's talking about the Actual Hammond used on the Actual Close To The Edge, and that I'm standing there talking to Rick Wakeman. freak cool

Trevor Rabin going by and saying hello at 16:15 is pretty cool, too. grin

dB
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#2823116 - 12/23/16 05:25 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Dave Bryce]
Outkaster Offline
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Very nice Dave...thanks for sharing.
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#2823147 - 12/23/16 07:51 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Outkaster]
Moonglow Offline
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Thanks Dave, really enjoyed those as well. twothumbs
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#2823149 - 12/23/16 08:03 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Synthaholic]
AnotherScott Offline
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Originally Posted By: Synthaholic
This blast from the past made me go garage-diving - I found it!

Yup, I had a Voyce box too. No idea what happened to it.

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#2823163 - 12/23/16 08:48 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Dave Bryce]
HammondDave Offline
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Fantastic interview, Dave. Thanks for asking the questions that we would ask. And some that we would not think of in the excitement of the moment.

Loved his comments about monitoring and IEM's... old school, baby!

Interesting about placing his keyboards for maximum reachability. The only time I say saw him jump a little too far is in the Heart of the Sunrise clip above. And I think he may have been telling a little fib about everything they play is live. During And You And I there is a moment when they come out of the huge Mellotron section when a pipe organ is playing chords while Rick is in fact moving from the Memotron to the Kronos. I saw you chuckle a bit when he said that... I wonder if you were thinking the same.

Great old war stories like being lucky if 50% of the rig still worked at the end of the show. I remember the nerves when I first turned on my MiniMoog for a performance. That being said, I never had a mini failure. But that mini was never transported by truck across the country.

Rick is correct, those EV's totally rock! He even has the subs! Very nice.

Funny, but the one instrument that I do not like the sound of is his Hammond/Suzuki. He seems to have no problem playing some of those lines with different tones.

Also loved the story of this Close To The Edge Hammond with the internal phase shifter. I remember hearing that on Yessongs. Sounded nothing like a Leslie.



Edited by HammondDave (12/23/16 08:52 AM)
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#2823174 - 12/23/16 09:17 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: HammondDave]
Moonglow Offline
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Originally Posted By: HammondDave
Rick is correct, those EV's totally rock! He even has the subs! Very nice.

Sorry if I missed it, but what is the model number on those EVs? I caught that the woofer was 12 inches and that he was using subs but missed the model number. I'm thinking about getting a new pair of monitors, and based on his overwhelmingly positive comments in that interview definitely want to give those a spin.
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#2823184 - 12/23/16 09:35 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Moonglow]
HammondDave Offline
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Originally Posted By: Moonglow
Originally Posted By: HammondDave
Rick is correct, those EV's totally rock! He even has the subs! Very nice.

Sorry if I missed it, but what is the model number on those EVs? I caught that the woofer was 12 inches and that he was using subs but missed the model number. I'm thinking about getting a new pair of monitors, and based on his overwhelmingly positive comments in that interview definitely want to give those a spin.


ETX12P

Its EV's top of the line monitor. Around $800 each. 52 lbs. For less than $300 you can get 80% of the quality from their bottom line monitors. Pretty impressive products.


Edited by HammondDave (12/23/16 11:46 AM)
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#2823186 - 12/23/16 09:40 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: HammondDave]
Moonglow Offline
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Cool, thanks. thu
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#2826867 - 01/09/17 10:05 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Moonglow]
Dave Bryce Administrator Offline
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Happiness is having Rick Wakeman's official page on FB "Like" the video tour we did of his rig. smile smile smile

dB
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#2826869 - 01/09/17 10:11 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Dave Bryce]
Al Quinn Offline
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Absolutely! Congrats smile
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#2826968 - 01/09/17 04:12 PM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Al Quinn]
Mighty Ferguson Offline
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Congrats Dave. Great interview and videos. Really happy to read that Rick is going to participate in the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame induction as well.
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#2827143 - 01/10/17 11:49 AM Re: ARW - Anderson, Rabin and Wakeman [Re: Mighty Ferguson]
wjwilcox Offline
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That was good stuff, Dave. In part 2, when you were talking about the Minimoogs as being "the rocks" and bouncing around inside Rick's rig, I could just see the cape over your outstretched arms...

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