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#2737151 - 11/25/15 09:23 PM Re: Hi From Jeff Berlin. Let's Hang! [Re: J. Dan]
Jeff Berlin Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/08/15
Posts: 53
Hi J. Dan. I'm not sure about what it is you are asking. Can you find another way to explain me your thoughts?


Edited by Jeff Berlin (11/25/15 09:26 PM)

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#2737455 - 11/27/15 08:43 AM Re: Hi From Jeff Berlin. Let's Hang! [Re: lug]
Groove Mama Offline
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Registered: 01/06/10
Posts: 2321
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: lug
(Lug's one serious post of the year)

??? Who are you, and what have you done with Lug?!!?
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#2737460 - 11/27/15 09:08 AM Re: Hi From Jeff Berlin. Let's Hang! [Re: Groove Mama]
lug Offline
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Registered: 03/13/01
Posts: 2279
Loc: League City,TX,UNITED STATES
Originally Posted By: Groove Mama
Originally Posted By: lug
(Lug's one serious post of the year)

??? Who are you, and what have you done with Lug?!!?


https://app.box.com/shared/static/aemq3d9ldv.wav
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#2737571 - 11/28/15 01:34 AM Re: Hi From Jeff Berlin. Let's Hang! [Re: Jeff Berlin]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
10k Club

Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 11166
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Originally Posted By: Jeff Berlin
Hi J. Dan. I'm not sure about what it is you are asking. Can you find another way to explain me your thoughts?


I guess maybe I'm trying to understand more specifically what kind of instruction would be most beneficial. Admittedly I'm probably not like most here, having not had formal bass instruction, but plenty of music theory. Since I haven't had formal bass instruction, maybe I'm just not understanding the kind of instruction NOT to have, that you are talking about. But to me, I've had all the theory and so what I've been working on is translating it to the bass, which IS all about the mechanical aspects - hand position, technique....translating the scales I know into positions and patterns. And what I've discovered is that there are differences in what works mechanically on a bass vs the piano for instance...which has little to do with music theory. But maybe I'm coming at is from a different enough aspect that some of the previous things you said either don't apply to me, or apply differently. Ultimately....I guess I'm looking for the next step to improve myself.
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Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2737636 - 11/28/15 11:58 AM Re: Hi From Jeff Berlin. Let's Hang! [Re: J. Dan]
Jeff Berlin Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/08/15
Posts: 53
Originally Posted By: J. Dan
Originally Posted By: Jeff Berlin
Hi J. Dan. I'm not sure about what it is you are asking. Can you find another way to explain me your thoughts?


I guess maybe I'm trying to understand more specifically what kind of instruction would be most beneficial. Admittedly I'm probably not like most here, having not had formal bass instruction, but plenty of music theory. Since I haven't had formal bass instruction, maybe I'm just not understanding the kind of instruction NOT to have, that you are talking about. But to me, I've had all the theory and so what I've been working on is translating it to the bass, which IS all about the mechanical aspects - hand position, technique....translating the scales I know into positions and patterns. And what I've discovered is that there are differences in what works mechanically on a bass vs the piano for instance...which has little to do with music theory. But maybe I'm coming at is from a different enough aspect that some of the previous things you said either don't apply to me, or apply differently. Ultimately....I guess I'm looking for the next step to improve myself.


Hi J.Dan! I think I might understand your thoughts. First of all, the term "theory" has been misunderstood by a lot of bass players as to what it really is. I am not sure if you understand that your need is to know what music to practice is the priority here.

Do this for me. Take a Cmaj7(#5) chord tone series and play them on your bass neck fully. Start on the lowest note which, in C maj7 (#5) will be an E, that is, if you play a four stringed bass as I do. If you play a five or six string then the lowest note that you will begin your ascension will be the low B.

Run the series to the top of your bass and then back down again. If you can do this with ease, then do the same thing in these keys:

C F Bb Eb Ab Db F# B E A D G

If you can do this without too many mistakes, this will tell me a lot about your ability to play outside of the "normal" tonalities that all bass players think that theory is constructed with. But if you have to stop a lot to figure out the right notes and even find yourself unsure about what they are, let me know. It is the 12 key approach that can answer for me a lot about what you can or cannot play, at least based on a quick question via a bass forum. Let me know how you do. And be honest with both me and you about your results. I can accept that you do know what you say that you do. But, music itself always, without exception, tells everyone who plays the truth about our abilities and knowledge of music beyond our own personal opinions. Good luck!


Edited by Jeff Berlin (11/28/15 12:00 PM)

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#2737910 - 11/30/15 06:26 AM Re: Hi From Jeff Berlin. Let's Hang! [Re: Jeff Berlin]
J. Dan Offline
Bannination Free Since '08
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Registered: 07/25/08
Posts: 11166
Loc: St. Louis, MO
Thanks! I'm in Colorado for the week, but I'll give it a try when I get back in town.
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Dan

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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#2738084 - 11/30/15 05:48 PM Re: Hi From Jeff Berlin. Let's Hang! [Re: J. Dan]
jeremy c Offline
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Registered: 02/01/01
Posts: 16428
Loc: Berkeley,CA,UNITED STATES
I had to think to do that exercise.

Thanks, Jeff.
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#2738273 - 12/01/15 01:43 PM Re: Hi From Jeff Berlin. Let's Hang! [Re: jeremy c]
Jeff Berlin Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/08/15
Posts: 53
Originally Posted By: jeremy c
I had to think to do that exercise.

Thanks, Jeff.


Good to hear that you had to think (did you play the exercise in 12 keys? You will really think if you do this.) Music lessons only based in musical content makes us all think and therefore grow. There are no other approaches in academic learning that will improve players other than musical content.

I know that groove lesson, technique, and a million other concepts are what many bass players pay attention to. But, no one to my knowledge improves by attending to these and other non-academic issues because practically no one actually has a problem with groove/time or technique at all.You've just been told that you do and many believed what they were told. All players share the same problem; we have a problem about what music to play in time and which requires certain technique to play it. If all similar problems shared by almost everyone are the same (and they are) then players therefore will share the same musical benefits by using music to fix them.

Rock lessons, slap lessons, using tab. practicing with metronomes, won't make bass players play better. There is only one way to improve in academic training and this way is narrow and to the point musical content. This approach to learning always worked in improving anyone that entered into studying this way. Write me here if you disagree so that we can discuss this. Regards to all from Jeff


Edited by Jeff Berlin (12/01/15 01:51 PM)

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#2738290 - 12/01/15 02:23 PM Re: Hi From Jeff Berlin. Let's Hang! [Re: Jeff Berlin]
jeremy c Offline
10k Club

Registered: 02/01/01
Posts: 16428
Loc: Berkeley,CA,UNITED STATES
Yes, I played the exercise in all keys. For some of them I had to say the note names of the chord out loud (or in my head) before I played the notes on the neck.

By the way, I have been playing bass for almost 50 years (and making a living at it), teaching for 40 years and I have a degree in music. I teach my students arpeggios in all keys (all over the neck), reading, and how to construct walking bass lines as well as a whole bunch of other stuff.
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#2738343 - 12/01/15 07:42 PM Re: Hi From Jeff Berlin. Let's Hang! [Re: jeremy c]
Jeff Berlin Offline
Senior Member

Registered: 11/08/15
Posts: 53




Edited by Jeff Berlin (12/01/15 07:44 PM)

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#2821043 - 12/13/16 03:42 PM Re: Hi From Jeff Berlin. Let's Hang! [Re: Jeff Berlin]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6081
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Haven't been around for a while...
Is this really the J Berliner we might think ?
idk
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#2821048 - 12/13/16 04:01 PM Re: Hi From Jeff Berlin. Let's Hang! [Re: d]
wraub Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 01/19/02
Posts: 5119
Loc: ennui, az.
Originally Posted By: d
Haven't been around for a while...
Is this really the J Berliner we might think ?
idk


Based on content and temperament... I say yes.
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