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#2725832 - 10/05/15 05:31 PM Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing?
Griffinator Offline
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I've checked out some of his live material, and I'm just not getting what the buzz is about this guy. Okay, so he opened for BB when he was 12. And he's released 15 studio albums, but the hour or so worth of material I've listened to so far (a live performance) sounds all pretty much the same.

He's got solid derivative (SRV/Beck) chops, but his solos lack direction, and he loves pedaling on one chord too much.

Someone please enlighten me here...

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#2725834 - 10/05/15 05:39 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Griffinator]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Griffinator
I've checked out some of his live material, and I'm just not getting what the buzz is about this guy. Okay, so he opened for BB when he was 12. And he's released 15 studio albums, but the hour or so worth of material I've listened to so far (a live performance) sounds all pretty much the same.

He's got solid derivative (SRV/Beck) chops, but his solos lack direction, and he loves pedaling on one chord too much.

Someone please enlighten me here...


He's got considerably better than competent chops, plays with style and taste, and has great tone; but, he also doesn't seem (to me) to be inventing or even re-inventing anything. Honestly, I think most of us are in that same (latter) boat, really.

I'd certainly take him over a LOT of what's out there, and I can't help but think that he seems to be a really nice guy, who's also sort of bearing the torch for better playing and music- particularly fairly traditional Trad/Classic Blues/Rock- in beleaguered times. Much more so than, say, "Kenny G" allegedly did for Jazz, for example, who I don't care much for, to say the least. But I also have never owned any of Joe's recorded works in any format. I almost feel kinda bad about that. Almost, just a little...
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#2725849 - 10/05/15 06:28 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
desertbluesman Offline
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Bonomassa is a very competent guitarist. I have never watched him for long on the TV, because his stage presence kinda bothers me. But I think he can play and play very professionally. He has an excellent tonal taste, and gets things outta that Les Paul and Marshall amp that give me the shivers, it sounds so good. For tone he is a master.
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#2725871 - 10/05/15 08:46 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: desertbluesman]
p90jr Offline
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Lawyer rock.

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#2725884 - 10/05/15 11:27 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: p90jr]
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I'm not a fan, but he's got a lot of talent, that's for sure... cool
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#2725925 - 10/06/15 06:42 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Larryz]
Danzilla Offline
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I enjoy his playing. I've got several of his albums and have found them all to be decent. Updating older blues tunes to a modern style, but still being respectful to their heritage. Original songs are good, too. I understand DBM's comments on stage presence, and on some of his live albums, his stage banter can be a little pedantic. "We're gonna play a little blues for you if that's alright." Um, I think that's what we're expecting, Joe.

He's a relatively self-made man, in that he's kept going strong without a big label behind him. I just wish he'd tone down some of his marketing. Does anyone really need a bunch of bobble head Joes , one for each guitar he has? Well, if they're buying them, so be it. I'll just take a cd, thanks.
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#2725943 - 10/06/15 07:45 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Danzilla]
SEHpicker Offline
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Can't argue with success. Personally I think he is a very good, even excellent guitarist in the genre he plays.
He's certainly knows how to market his talents. There are probably boatloads of guitarists out there that are better than Joe - that we've never heard of.
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#2725952 - 10/06/15 08:29 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: SEHpicker]
p90jr Offline
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I remember him as the pudgy little kid prodigy in guitar magazines, and then in a band with the kids of famous musicians (Bloodline), and I wondered "who the hell is this kid?"

Never cared either way, but I read a quote a few years about his jamming with BB thing as a kid where he said "I had no idea who BB King was..." and that kind of did him in for me... I think his dad did a lot to push him into the limelight when he was 13 or something.

His playing doesn't move me, personally, and I don't hear a song in most of what he does. I am kind of fascinated with the whole thing... it is marketing... we call it "lawyer rock" around here because if you can play the blues in a way that appeals to middle-age guitar playing lawyers you make a good bit of dough. Never tell a lawyer you don't think he's that great, though... I can tell you that from experience.

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#2725953 - 10/06/15 08:30 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: SEHpicker]
jimmac Offline
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I watched some of a concert at Red Rock and he was OK to watch and played very good. Later I saw a complete concert he did in europe at some opra house using only acustic guitars and he totally blew me away. This is on u-tube so I think it would be easy for you to find. I noticed the u-tube video while looking for something else. Jim

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#2725954 - 10/06/15 08:38 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: SEHpicker]
whitefang Offline
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His solos "lack direction"?

I've been saying that about EVH for a LONG time!

If YOU TOO, don't feel the same about Eddie, then there must be some OTHER factor in your thoughts on Joe.

Frankly, I was never too familiar with him until seeing some PBS presentation late last year.

I DO agree about his being "derivative", and I'D assert it's CLICHE-ic. But he maintains a good tone and does have some admirable chops, so I guess it's more a matter of personal taste.

Like those people who LOVE Barbara Streisand, and those who DON'T, really. Both camps would agree that her singing voice is good, but differ as to what she does with it.

It's pretty much the same with Bonamassa. AND EVH for that matter.
Whitefang


Edited by whitefang (10/06/15 08:39 AM)
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#2725958 - 10/06/15 09:03 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: whitefang]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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As a bona-fide middle-aged guitar playing lawyer ( wink ), I dig Joe's stuff.

However, I have to ask why it seems as if every blues rock guitarist who pops up post-1991 is dismissed as "derivative" when, in all fairness, that label could be applied to most guitarists out there on some level. We all consciously or subconsciously pay homage to the ones who inspired us to play, and true, out-of-the-box innovators are rare after all these many decades of electric guitar.

This is ESPECIALLY true in venerable genres like electric/heavy blues rock.

(FWIW, I hear more Page than Beck or SRV in his compositions & playing.)

I WILL agree without reservation that his marketing department IS a bit...overzealous.


Edited by Dannyalcatraz (10/06/15 09:05 AM)
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#2725964 - 10/06/15 09:38 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Griffinator]
LeftyBlues Offline
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He's a bit of a conundrum because I like his stuff (have 5 or 6 cd's) but he doesn't hit me in the heart emotionally alla SRV did. I will probably like him more as he ages and eases off the gas a bit (more blues, less rock) but he is definitely a big force in what we call blues these days and I feel he respects and tries to honor the history of blues. Love the term "lawyer rock" though!
Lefty out <static>
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#2725965 - 10/06/15 09:39 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
CEB Offline
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My favorite stuff is still the original Bloodline album.

I don't really give jack about the guitar chops. I like the vibe of the rhythm section and the work as a whole. I would have to seen how they would have matured as a group if they would have stayed together.

I don't hear a lot of SRV which by the way is 85-90% Trower. He reminds me some of Ian Moore who is my favorite guitar picker to have come out of Austin with an ocassional pinch of Popa Chubby when Chubby plays that slick New York style blues.



Edited by CEB (10/06/15 09:45 AM)
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#2725970 - 10/06/15 09:56 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: CEB]
CEB Offline
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I think I will listen to this this morning.

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#2725974 - 10/06/15 10:16 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: CEB]
SEHpicker Offline
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Wow - Thanks CEB - somehow I have never heard Ian Moore before.
Really tasty. Definite SRV influence - but in a more bluesy way.
And a killer voice.
I think I'll dig a little deeper into this guy's material.
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#2726001 - 10/06/15 11:39 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: SEHpicker]
CEB Offline
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The first 2 albums were good. From what I hear he was being pushed into being a guitar god by the record people and he didn't want to go there and wanted to be more known as a singer songwriter.

Musically he went in another direction starting with the 3rd record.
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#2726063 - 10/06/15 03:09 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: CEB]
Fred_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: CEB


I don't really give jack about the guitar chops. I like the vibe of the rhythm section and the work as a whole.

when Chubby plays that sliues.



Hey CEB,

I agree. I really enjoy inserting hip chord phrases into my Blues.

In the last few years I've gotten away from a scalar approach to soloing. I am now playing blues using "Chord Tone Soloing". I think it sounds super cool and since your thinking about chord shapes, it's easy to insert some cool rhythmic ideas. A nice, Jazzy sound.

BTW: What do you mean by New York style" Blues? I'm not familiar with the term. Could you post an example?

Be well and Play well.



Edited by Fred_C (10/06/15 03:14 PM)
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#2726098 - 10/06/15 04:56 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Fred_C]
hurricane hugo Offline
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I loved the Black Country Communion albums; should've done more with that project.
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#2726133 - 10/06/15 07:39 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: hurricane hugo]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Agreed!
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#2726142 - 10/06/15 08:36 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: jimmac]
p90jr Offline
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Originally Posted By: jimmac
I watched some of a concert at Red Rock and he was OK to watch and played very good. Later I saw a complete concert he did in europe at some opra house using only acustic guitars and he totally blew me away. This is on u-tube so I think it would be easy for you to find. I noticed the u-tube video while looking for something else. Jim


These concerts air during the pledge drives on your local PBS station. We make a lot of money with signed Epiphone Special and concert ticket and DVD packages... which blues lawyers gobble up!

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#2726145 - 10/06/15 08:46 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
p90jr Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
As a bona-fide middle-aged guitar playing lawyer ( wink ), I dig Joe's stuff.

However, I have to ask why it seems as if every blues rock guitarist who pops up post-1991 is dismissed as "derivative" when, in all fairness, that label could be applied to most guitarists out there on some level. We all consciously or subconsciously pay homage to the ones who inspired us to play, and true, out-of-the-box innovators are rare after all these many decades of electric guitar.

This is ESPECIALLY true in venerable genres like electric/heavy blues rock.

(FWIW, I hear more Page than Beck or SRV in his compositions & playing.)

I WILL agree without reservation that his marketing department IS a bit...overzealous.


I think "derivative" gets applied to the guys copying things second or third generation, which would've happened generationally at about '91. Like I said, I was reading an interview, maybe in GP, and they asked Bonnamassa about playing with BB at such a young age and he said "I had no idea who he was, so it was just like, whatever..."

You know, when someone's playing licks filtered through to generations of imitators rather than studying the source.

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#2726155 - 10/06/15 10:33 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: p90jr]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Yeah, but that's the man talking about YOUNG Joe B- the player he has become is probably as savvy about the real deal as anyone you can name. Otherwise, you wouldn't see him doing songs like this:






Edited by Dannyalcatraz (10/06/15 10:34 PM)
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#2726170 - 10/07/15 02:17 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
The Geoff Offline
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I'm not knocking him, but I don't 'get' him either.

I played with some great players at jam sessions who lit me up more than Joe.

G.
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#2726181 - 10/07/15 04:21 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: The Geoff]
Eric Iverson Offline
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He plays really well in his style. Gotta give him credit for that.
Not a big fan, either, but I'm glad he's successful. At least he's a PLAYER and not a POSER, LOL. Not in the news because of bad behavior rather than talent, etc. etc.
No names here, to protect the innocent bystanders......

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#2726252 - 10/07/15 09:52 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Eric Iverson]
desertbluesman Offline
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Oh the tone, last time I saw a you tube video, I was real impressed with his tone.

He also did a little video on how to get the best sounds from a guitar using the volume and tone controls, playing through one of those little boutique Fender tweed clones, The tone he was demoing was simply stunning.

I have to laud him for his blues licks, and awesome tonal choices. He has that down pat.
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#2726296 - 10/07/15 12:40 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: desertbluesman]
Griffinator Offline
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By all means, I'm not bagging on him for his ability to operate the instrument. His songwriting did nothing for me, nor did the conversational aspects of his soloing, though. The licks were clean, but they didn't really speak, other than a vaguely parrot-esque background chatter. Like I've heard all those words said exactly that way before, ya know?

Maybe there just isn't any new ground to break in blues? That carrying the torch for blues means basically retreading all the old paths?

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#2726307 - 10/07/15 01:43 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Griffinator]
SEHpicker Offline
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Joe might be a derivative of prior influences - but aren't we all?
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#2726308 - 10/07/15 01:44 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Griffinator]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Griffinator

Maybe there just isn't any new ground to break in blues? That carrying the torch for blues means basically retreading all the old paths?


There is some truth there. Blues & blues rock are petty tightly defined. Ditto other genres, like reggae, bluegrass, etc. After an artist strays too far away from the core, it becomes more a new genre or a "fusion" rather than "the real deal".
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#2726309 - 10/07/15 01:47 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: SEHpicker]
Griffinator Offline
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Sure, but at the same time, we tend to recombine and mesh our various influences and come out with something that at least sounds like a different voice. That was what left me empty after investigating his live stuff. Yeah, it's an impeccable tone, and yeah his fingers are precise, but it's like a long string of quotes. The riffing sounds like he lifted it straight off a Robin Trower record. The licks are the same licks I've heard from SRV, Beck, Trower, etc. It's almost insipid to me how much cloning he does.

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#2726338 - 10/07/15 03:17 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Griffinator]
desertbluesman Offline
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Originally Posted By: Griffinator
By all means, I'm not bagging on him for his ability to operate the instrument. His songwriting did nothing for me, nor did the conversational aspects of his soloing, though. The licks were clean, but they didn't really speak, other than a vaguely parrot-esque background chatter. Like I've heard all those words said exactly that way before, ya know?

Maybe there just isn't any new ground to break in blues? That carrying the torch for blues means basically retreading all the old paths?


Don't get me wrong, I never watch him all the way through a video, he is just too stiff on stage for me to watch, I never bought any of his recordings. His playing is fairly clean and his tone is awesome, I can get much of that tone from my gear as well, but to me tone matters a big bunch. As far as "new licks" is concerned he does do a nice set of tried and true pentatonics, as well as throwing in some fuller scalular things. He is basically playing the blues, and there ain't much you can do "new" as far as the blues is concerned, all of the blues players are doing similar things pretty much, a little bit of new and a lot of what they heard when learning. He is a good player. Not anything I would buy, but you have to give him credit for being a fully pro guy on stage in his playing, and tone.
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#2726368 - 10/07/15 05:11 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: desertbluesman]
desertbluesman Offline
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Bonnamassa plays Blues Deluxe. Definitely a journeyman blues player.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SbUCUjsZm9E

Now that is the blues.
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If it sounds good, it is good !!
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#2726376 - 10/07/15 06:10 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: desertbluesman]
Larryz Online   content
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^ He does a great job on that one DBM! I like him when he gets right with the program and skips the long intros...great blues playing that make that LP sing! cool
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#2726379 - 10/07/15 06:16 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: desertbluesman]
Griffinator Offline
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Originally Posted By: desertbluesman
...you have to give him credit for being a fully pro guy on stage in his playing, and tone.


I do. I'm just not inclined to go any further than that. Certainly not as far as spending half a hundred to go watch him.

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#2726383 - 10/07/15 06:35 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Griffinator]
desertbluesman Offline
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Originally Posted By: Griffinator
Originally Posted By: desertbluesman
...you have to give him credit for being a fully pro guy on stage in his playing, and tone.


I do. I'm just not inclined to go any further than that. Certainly not as far as spending half a hundred to go watch him.


I don't go to places where there are many humans with possible communicable diseases anymore. At my age and the fact I don't get vaccines, a little flue or anything stronger than that could kill me, whereas it would only have made me uncomfortable in the past.

There are very few musicians that I would go pay to see at almost any price these days. The ones I admired are mostly dead or past their prime by a long ways.
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#2726399 - 10/07/15 08:19 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: desertbluesman]
Griffinator Offline
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I'll still pay a pretty stiff premium to go see John Petrucci play. wink

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#2726447 - 10/08/15 04:41 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Griffinator]
Eric Iverson Offline
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The question arose: can you do anything new in the blues, and still have it be blues?
Well, guys like Clapton, Hendrix, Bloomfield, Beck et al. did EXACTLY THAT back in the day!
Could it be done now? I imagine it COULD... the question is, would it be ACCEPTED??
This is not the '60s, when blues was a new thing to white kids - a "Crusade" (John Mayall titled one of his records that). It's not a crusade anymore - it's not a novelty. There are certainly some young blues fans, the music is surely not going to die any time soon, but it's not where the creative center of gravity is.

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#2726453 - 10/08/15 05:45 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: desertbluesman]
Fred_C Offline
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[quote=desertbluesman
The ones I admired are mostly dead or past their prime by a long ways. [/quote]

Agreed. Although there are a lot of old guys who can still play. I hear that Les Paul was still "wearin' it out" in his 90's.

Hell, Buddy Guy is 79 and still killin' it. One of my earliest guitar heroes.

But, yeah. Almost everyone I like is dead.
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#2726455 - 10/08/15 05:54 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Griffinator]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Originally Posted By: Griffinator
Originally Posted By: desertbluesman
...you have to give him credit for being a fully pro guy on stage in his playing, and tone.


I do. I'm just not inclined to go any further than that. Certainly not as far as spending half a hundred to go watch him.


Keep your eyes & ears open and you won't have to. He does play venues & events that are more affordable- I got to see him for a taping of ACL...when he "opened" for himself by playing an acoustic set with one band, and an electric set with another lineup.

The encore featured all the musicians who participated,


Edited by Dannyalcatraz (10/08/15 05:55 AM)
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#2726475 - 10/08/15 07:20 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Eric Iverson]
Griffinator Offline
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Originally Posted By: Eric Iverson
The question arose: can you do anything new in the blues, and still have it be blues?
Well, guys like Clapton, Hendrix, Bloomfield, Beck et al. did EXACTLY THAT back in the day!
Could it be done now? I imagine it COULD... the question is, would it be ACCEPTED??
This is not the '60s, when blues was a new thing to white kids - a "Crusade" (John Mayall titled one of his records that). It's not a crusade anymore - it's not a novelty. There are certainly some young blues fans, the music is surely not going to die any time soon, but it's not where the creative center of gravity is.


True enough.

And even if someone DID try and reinvent the blues by adding some other components to it, someone would slap a new subgenre label on it just so it wouldn't be called "the blues" anymore.

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#2726477 - 10/08/15 07:21 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Fred_C]
CEB Offline
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Originally Posted By: Fred_C
Originally Posted By: CEB


I don't really give jack about the guitar chops. I like the vibe of the rhythm section and the work as a whole.

when Chubby plays that sliues.



Hey CEB,

I agree. I really enjoy inserting hip chord phrases into my Blues.

In the last few years I've gotten away from a scalar approach to soloing. I am now playing blues using "Chord Tone Soloing". I think it sounds super cool and since your thinking about chord shapes, it's easy to insert some cool rhythmic ideas. A nice, Jazzy sound.

BTW: What do you mean by New York style" Blues? I'm not familiar with the term. Could you post an example?

Be well and Play well.



Real NY Blues tends to be horn based and guitar is often part of the rhythm section. It is a lot like Jump Blues. A better label for this blues where the guitar takes more of a lead role is probably Up Town Blues. Think more dimished scales and more of a Jazzy sound and less dependency on pentatonic or 6 tone blues scales.

The guys to me that are the pinnacle of that style are players like Robben Ford, Larry Carlton, Poppa Chubby goes there sometimes.





_________________________
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#2726508 - 10/08/15 08:24 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: CEB]
Larryz Online   content
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@ CEB, Bob James does a really great job on piano, playing with Larry Cartlton...you can tell Bob has been around for a long time. Very cool! cool
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#2726559 - 10/08/15 11:10 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Larryz]
SEHpicker Offline
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Registered: 05/16/02
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Mr. 335 has been a staple in my music library for many decades. He can create awesome tonal and melodic lines - and he's got that cool Dumble amp thing going on. I even like his Christmas albums.
From what I've heard he is very friendly and humble.
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#2727852 - 10/14/15 02:18 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: SEHpicker]
skipclone 1 Offline
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I have a `free` CD from Joe that I have not listened to, it`s still in the wrapper. It was advertised on FB and still is-except it`s not free. I would have to dig out the invoice but, aside from shipping there was some bogus charge that was slapped on-got on my nerves.
I thought, Joe, gimme a break. You don`t need this nonsense.
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#2727957 - 10/14/15 11:06 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: skipclone 1]
Delta Offline
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As far as Joe's recorded work I really like Sloe Gin, The Ballad of John Henry and Different Shades of Blue along with his work with Black Country Communion. I agree that there are a lot of influences that you hear in his playing, but is that necessarily a bad thing? Being original in Blues oriented material is a tall order. I haven't a seen a lot of his live footage. I know he played in my area a few months ago at a small college concert venue. I wasn't willing to pay $150 for a decent seat.
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#2728038 - 10/14/15 08:11 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Fred_C]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Fred_C
I really enjoy inserting hip chord phrases into my Blues.

In the last few years I've gotten away from a scalar approach to soloing. I am now playing blues using "Chord Tone Soloing". I think it sounds super cool and since your thinking about chord shapes, it's easy to insert some cool rhythmic ideas. A nice, Jazzy sound.


Yeah, phrases made up of intervals and chord/arpeggio fragments, instead of focusing on scalar runs, sound cool, interesting, personal, and authentically Bluesy. Good stuff, and it can help make you stand out and not sound just like everybody else. I like to use double and triple stops here and there, as well; sometimes on adjacent strings, sometimes skipping strings in-between across the fretboard; sometimes with bends and oblique-bends, too. Nothing difficult to do, just needing a little creative thought.

Originally Posted By: CEB
The guys to me that are the pinnacle of that style are players like Robben Ford, Larry Carlton, Poppa Chubby goes there sometimes.


Check out Ronnie Earl and the Broadcasters; great classy, somewhat Jazzy, uptown Blues. cool
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#2729094 - 10/20/15 05:13 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
CEB Offline
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Thanks.
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#2729173 - 10/20/15 09:58 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
Fred_C Offline
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Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Originally Posted By: Fred_C
I really enjoy inserting hip chord phrases into my Blues.

In the last few years I've gotten away from a scalar approach to soloing. I am now playing blues using "Chord Tone Soloing". I think it sounds super cool and since your thinking about chord shapes, it's easy to insert some cool rhythmic ideas. A nice, Jazzy sound.


Yeah, phrases made up of intervals and chord/arpeggio fragments, instead of focusing on scalar runs, sound cool, interesting, personal, and authentically Bluesy. Good stuff, and it can help make you stand out and not sound just like everybody else. I like to use double and triple stops here and there, as well; sometimes on adjacent strings, sometimes skipping strings in-between across the fretboard; sometimes with bends and oblique-bends, too. Nothing difficult to do, just needing a little creative thought.

Originally Posted By: CEB
The guys to me that are the pinnacle of that style are players like Robben Ford, Larry Carlton, Poppa Chubby goes there sometimes.


Check out Ronnie Earl and the Broadcasters; great classy, somewhat Jazzy, uptown Blues. cool


I agree Caev. It's not difficult, it's intuitive. You do need an understanding of where the scale tones are inside the chord shape. I like it because it's so melodic. It makes me think of Louie Armstrong or Bennie Goodman playin' Blues. Also, there's no rule that says you can't insert your favorite minor/major pentatonic ideas where appropriate, as long as you resolve to a chord tone.


I am reminded of a Charlie Parker quotation. He said, "I realized that I could play any note I wanted, as long as I resolved to a chord tone".
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#2729207 - 10/20/15 12:17 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Fred_C]
Griffinator Offline
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IDK, in my adventures in chromatic licks, I've discovered that resolving to a tone that so much as harmonizes agreeably with the chord works pretty well too.

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#2729230 - 10/20/15 01:36 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Fred_C]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Originally Posted By: Fred_C
Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Originally Posted By: Fred_C
I really enjoy inserting hip chord phrases into my Blues.

In the last few years I've gotten away from a scalar approach to soloing. I am now playing blues using "Chord Tone Soloing". I think it sounds super cool and since your thinking about chord shapes, it's easy to insert some cool rhythmic ideas. A nice, Jazzy sound.


Yeah, phrases made up of intervals and chord/arpeggio fragments, instead of focusing on scalar runs, sound cool, interesting, personal, and authentically Bluesy. Good stuff, and it can help make you stand out and not sound just like everybody else. I like to use double and triple stops here and there, as well; sometimes on adjacent strings, sometimes skipping strings in-between across the fretboard; sometimes with bends and oblique-bends, too. Nothing difficult to do, just needing a little creative thought.

Originally Posted By: CEB
The guys to me that are the pinnacle of that style are players like Robben Ford, Larry Carlton, Poppa Chubby goes there sometimes.


Check out Ronnie Earl and the Broadcasters; great classy, somewhat Jazzy, uptown Blues. cool


I agree Caev. It's not difficult, it's intuitive. You do need an understanding of where the scale tones are inside the chord shape. I like it because it's so melodic. It makes me think of Louie Armstrong or Bennie Goodman playin' Blues. Also, there's no rule that says you can't insert your favorite minor/major pentatonic ideas where appropriate, as long as you resolve to a chord tone.


I am reminded of a Charlie Parker quotation. He said, "I realized that I could play any note I wanted, as long as I resolved to a chord tone".


cool

Originally Posted By: Griffinator
IDK, in my adventures in chromatic licks, I've discovered that resolving to a tone that so much as harmonizes agreeably with the chord works pretty well too.


In a way, you're both essentially saying the same thing; by default, a large number of available note-choices can and will function in extended or added harmony for the given 'chord of the moment, even though that particular chord-voicing isn't immediately presented by anyone else at that moment.

Sometimes, it's hard to explain just how and why a good player can pull off using a 'wrong' note or odd timing or timbre, where another, lesser player might sound awful using the exact same notes, etc. But it happens! crazy
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#2729234 - 10/20/15 02:02 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Griffinator]
Fred_C Offline
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Registered: 06/12/10
Posts: 2121
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Griff,

I agree. However, I think that these tones that "harmonize agreeably with the chord" would be extensions (9th,11th,13th) and/or alterations (#5,b5,#9,b9,#11) and would therefore qualify as chord tones for these extended and altered chords.

BTW: are you enjoying the book?

Regards.
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#2729241 - 10/20/15 02:11 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Fred_C]
Griffinator Offline
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Originally Posted By: Fred_C
Griff,

I agree. However, I think that these tones that "harmonize agreeably with the chord" would be extensions (9th,11th,13th) and/or alterations (#5,b5,#9,b9,#11) and would therefore qualify as chord tones for these extended and altered chords.


A fair point, for sure. Caeven basically said the same thing, and I think I basically misread "chord tone" as "root" as I scanned the original quote, because I'm basically saying the same thing.

Quote:
BTW: are you enjoying the book?


Absolutely. Lots of cool concepts in there to build out my phrasing vocabulary. Worth every second I've invested in it so far.

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#2729242 - 10/20/15 02:26 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
CEB Offline
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Posts: 12994
Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
....
Sometimes, it's hard to explain just how and why a good player can pull off using a 'wrong' note or odd timing or timbre, where another, lesser player might sound awful using the exact same notes, etc. But it happens! crazy


Intent.

_________________________
"It doesn't have to be difficult to be cool" - Mitch Towne

"A great musician can bring tears to your eyes!!!
So can a auto Mechanic." - Stokes Hunt

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#2729246 - 10/20/15 02:44 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Griffinator]
Fred_C Offline
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Registered: 06/12/10
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Griff,

Glad to hear that you're enjoying it.

Regards.
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#2729315 - 10/20/15 07:57 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: CEB]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
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Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24809
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Originally Posted By: CEB
Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
....
Sometimes, it's hard to explain just how and why a good player can pull off using a 'wrong' note or odd timing or timbre, where another, lesser player might sound awful using the exact same notes, etc. But it happens! crazy


Intent.



Good call! cool
_________________________
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~ Caevan James-Michael Miller-O'Shite ~
_ ___ _ Leprechaun, Esquire _ ___ _

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#2729388 - 10/21/15 07:45 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
SEHpicker Offline
Platinum Member

Registered: 05/16/02
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John Candy on guitar? grin
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#2729398 - 10/21/15 08:00 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: SEHpicker]
Dannyalcatraz Offline
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Who killed John Candy
In the battle of sinners and saints
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#2729483 - 10/21/15 12:07 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Dannyalcatraz]
Danzilla Offline
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Registered: 01/09/04
Posts: 5514
Loc: Baltimore, MD
Originally Posted By: Dannyalcatraz
Who killed John Candy
In the battle of sinners and saints


I see what you did there. thu rawk
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#2929898 - 05/29/18 10:56 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Caevan O'Shite]
d Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6977
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Originally Posted By: Griffinator
I've checked out some of his live material, and I'm just not getting what the buzz is about this guy. Okay, so he opened for BB when he was 12. And he's released 15 studio albums, but the hour or so worth of material I've listened to so far (a live performance) sounds all pretty much the same.

He's got solid derivative (SRV/Beck) chops, but his solos lack direction, and he loves pedaling on one chord too much.

Someone please enlighten me here...


He's got considerably better than competent chops, plays with style and taste, and has great tone; but, he also doesn't seem (to me) to be inventing or even re-inventing anything. Honestly, I think most of us are in that same (latter) boat, really.

I'd certainly take him over a LOT of what's out there, and I can't help but think that he seems to be a really nice guy, who's also sort of bearing the torch for better playing and music- particularly fairly traditional Trad/Classic Blues/Rock- in beleaguered times. Much more so than, say, "Kenny G" allegedly did for Jazz, for example, who I don't care much for, to say the least. But I also have never owned any of Joe's recorded works in any format. I almost feel kinda bad about that. Almost, just a little...


I once felt same as Professor Griff, maybe more-so. I equated JB w/a less sweatified George Thorogood, i.e., all form, little function... but recently I came across this, which didn't just stop me but stomped me in my tracks.
All the emotive power I thought he lacked (ably effected, as well by Haynes) + a greater set of skills.
Dig this perf which I find electrifrying, strangely helped by the drumist & bassolator rimshot thinking they're playing Steve Miler's "The Joker". grin facepalm rawk
Intro = 0:20~1:15
1st verse = dig the "Hammond + Leslie" tone Haynes uses for a couple licks
1st break = 2:38~4:13 / bends @ 3:08 & 3:39 & the throaty octave drop @ 4:09 !!! JB be's fonky!
2nd break = 5:35~11:11 (ain't that a time ?!) / If the interplay between JB & WH don't get you the Debbil will !


I stand coverted.
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#2929910 - 05/29/18 11:27 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: CEB]
p90jr Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 3160
Originally Posted By: CEB
Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
....
Sometimes, it's hard to explain just how and why a good player can pull off using a 'wrong' note or odd timing or timbre, where another, lesser player might sound awful using the exact same notes, etc. But it happens! crazy


Intent.



Loose as a goose, yet tight as a duck's butthole!!!

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#2929913 - 05/29/18 11:35 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: d]
p90jr Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 3160
Originally Posted By: d
Originally Posted By: Caevan O'Shite
Originally Posted By: Griffinator
I've checked out some of his live material, and I'm just not getting what the buzz is about this guy. Okay, so he opened for BB when he was 12. And he's released 15 studio albums, but the hour or so worth of material I've listened to so far (a live performance) sounds all pretty much the same.

He's got solid derivative (SRV/Beck) chops, but his solos lack direction, and he loves pedaling on one chord too much.

Someone please enlighten me here...


He's got considerably better than competent chops, plays with style and taste, and has great tone; but, he also doesn't seem (to me) to be inventing or even re-inventing anything. Honestly, I think most of us are in that same (latter) boat, really.

I'd certainly take him over a LOT of what's out there, and I can't help but think that he seems to be a really nice guy, who's also sort of bearing the torch for better playing and music- particularly fairly traditional Trad/Classic Blues/Rock- in beleaguered times. Much more so than, say, "Kenny G" allegedly did for Jazz, for example, who I don't care much for, to say the least. But I also have never owned any of Joe's recorded works in any format. I almost feel kinda bad about that. Almost, just a little...


I once felt same as Professor Griff, maybe more-so. I equated JB w/a less sweatified George Thorogood, i.e., all form, little function... but recently I came across this, which didn't just stop me but stomped me in my tracks.
All the emotive power I thought he lacked (ably effected, as well by Haynes) + a greater set of skills.
Dig this perf which I find electrifrying, strangely helped by the drumist & bassolator rimshot thinking they're playing Steve Miler's "The Joker". grin facepalm rawk
Intro = 0:20~1:15
1st verse = dig the "Hammond + Leslie" tone Haynes uses for a couple licks
1st break = 2:38~4:13 / bends @ 3:08 & 3:39 & the throaty octave drop @ 4:09 !!! JB be's fonky!
2nd break = 5:35~11:11 (ain't that a time ?!) / If the interplay between JB & WH don't get you the Debbil will !


I stand coverted.


That was very good, indeed. He should play with Haynes more often... it seems to bring out the "soul" in him.

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#2929926 - 05/29/18 12:11 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: p90jr]
Larryz Online   content
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11414
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Tales from the crypt (10/21/15)... evil
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#2929927 - 05/29/18 12:13 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Larryz]
p90jr Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 11/21/07
Posts: 3160
Originally Posted By: Larryz
Tales from the crypt (10/21/15)... evil


I think d resurrected this thread to address his change of heart (or mind) about Bonamassa...

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#2929938 - 05/29/18 01:17 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: p90jr]
Larryz Online   content
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11414
Loc: Northern California
It's OK by me. Just letting others know it's an oldie thread. We haven't heard from Griff in a long time and I hope he's doing well. Like d, I think Joe Bonamassa's playing is very cool and I grew to like him more over the years... cool
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#2929967 - 05/29/18 04:35 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: p90jr]
d Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6977
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
FWIW, I didn't notice the date & that all the comments prior to mine are a couple yrs old.
There was a very recent thread (maybe a couple months back) abt someone's bewilderment over Joe B's popularity here & when this one showed up in my search I presumed it was the one I'd seen.
----------------------
Having made a new, quick search for the thread I saw....hmm, can't find it.
I must've seen one over at HC or someplace or was there a discussion abt Bonamassa in GP or someplace recently ?
Trust me, I didn't recall this thread from 2K15 !



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#2930004 - 05/29/18 08:20 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: d]
Larryz Online   content
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11414
Loc: Northern California
No problem with bringing up old threads when there is something worth repeating that's still relevant. I remember a few threads where Joe Bonamassa came up but probably couldn't find them again if I tried LOL! I do remember posting this YouTube clip that I found interesting as he gives a few lessons here and there. This one is remembering to use the volume and tone controls on an LP before resorting to pedals and getting different genre vibes:



he puts out some cool stuff and interviews! cool
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#2930086 - 05/30/18 07:13 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Larryz]
d Offline
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Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6977
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
I know there's a general guideline to not pull up "zombies".
AString & site management both prefer fresh material plus there's some tech reason that pulling up v. old files apparently is problematic.

I do think, myself, that there's a serious value to collating some information as a reference collection.
I've been slowly creating a collection of stuff (edited material in new threads, not simply "zombies" pulled up) to eventually present: "the Strat File" ; my BBKing career retrospective; etc.

There are 1000s of back pages here & that's not even a complete list---the general public, which includes me, can only access back a few yrs not even close to the origins of the site, which extends into the 1990s.
The really old pages simply aren't listed.
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#2930092 - 05/30/18 07:39 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: d]
Larryz Online   content
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Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11414
Loc: Northern California
I have noticed many of one hit wonders who join the forum are up in the wee hours of the morning pulling up our old threads. Still expecting and answer to their questions from guys who have been long gone. I can never figure out why they just don't start a new thread LOL! But, there are times when they pull up some good history that saves them the time of repeating it and going into their thoughts from there. So I can see pulling up old threads now and then. As you are pointing out d, there is a ton of great material that has been posted on this site over the years...+1 on archiving a reference collection of some of it, if it is possible! cool


Edited by Larryz (05/30/18 07:41 AM)
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#2930134 - 05/30/18 10:37 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Larryz]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6977
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
It's possible, just time consuming as it involves finding the relevant material & inter-connections, then placing it in proper order & tryna determine accuracy before adding my usual witty flair.
Not to mention the need to keep up w/the ongoing current world.

For ex, the current threads
Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads...A_D#Post2929712
&
Amps and the reason why you like yours
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads..._li#Post2929084
could be combined (along with, perhaps, other threads)
to bring together a new reference thread such as How To Get The Best From Yer Amp For The Music You Make.
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#2930189 - 05/30/18 03:51 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: d]
mikesr1963 Offline
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Registered: 08/20/06
Posts: 59
Loc: Virginia's East Coast
Here's JB's 2018 rig. I have a JB cd. A live one from years ago. I enjoy it from time to time but he's not favorite player. That said his skills and gear knowledge, IMO, is unmatched for a guitarist and someone who's not impressed by the Dumble.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=233&v=IThh8Ye3PvM


Edited by mikesr1963 (05/30/18 03:53 PM)

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#2930225 - 05/30/18 08:22 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: d]
Larryz Online   content
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11414
Loc: Northern California
Originally Posted By: d
It's possible, just time consuming as it involves finding the relevant material & inter-connections, then placing it in proper order & tryna determine accuracy before adding my usual witty flair.
Not to mention the need to keep up w/the ongoing current world.

For ex, the current threads
Speaker Recommendation For A Deluxe Reverb
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads...A_D#Post2929712
&
Amps and the reason why you like yours
http://forums.musicplayer.com/ubbthreads..._li#Post2929084
could be combined (along with, perhaps, other threads)
to bring together a new reference thread such as How To Get The Best From Yer Amp For The Music You Make.


I'm thinking it would have to be a search engine. You type in "Joe Bonamassa" and all threads with his name in the title would be listed and you could click on any of them. Or "amplifiers" "Speakers" "JBL" "BB King" [insert] title search, etc. We would all have to think about putting key words in the title of our threads so that they could be searched on. Many searches on Wiki and on YouTube could give us ideas...I think this is more of a discussion forum as opposed to a research forum. We do post several Wiki, YT, Articles, links so maybe we should just keep it as is. But having an individual list and links to refer back to is a good idea as well...just some thoughts that I'm prattling off for now. I do appreciate your "witty flair" though LOL! cool
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#2930254 - 05/31/18 04:10 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
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Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 11025
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
But(as I see it) the reason some post WIKI or YT and other links to other articles is mostly as "back-up" or confirming sources of any information.

And +1 on this being more of a discussion forum. Although the occasional "tutorial" treatment and/or "soap box" or audition postings are always welcome too. wink
Whitefang
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I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

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#2930368 - 05/31/18 02:02 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: whitefang]
Winston Psmith Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 02/15/10
Posts: 3523
Loc: Inside the Beltway
Off topic, but not altogether out of context - Has anyone else noticed that we haven't heard from Griffinator in a LONG time? I know he had some health issues, heart related, IIRC. Just bringing it up because he started the original thread, and he was always one of the more informed and entertaining Forum members. I even checked out his Metal Chef videos on occasion. Anybody have any word?
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#2930371 - 05/31/18 02:31 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Winston Psmith]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6977
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Not me, I didn't even realize he'd been MIA til now.
One of the big drags of recent yrs is how long-standing members have gone .
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d=halfnote

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#2930372 - 05/31/18 02:39 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Larryz]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6977
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
Originally Posted By: Larryz
I'm thinking it would have to be a search engine. You type in "Joe Bonamassa" and all threads with his name in the title would be listed and you could click on any of them. Or "amplifiers" "Speakers" "JBL" "BB King" [insert] title search, etc. We would all have to think about putting key words in the title of our threads so that they could be searched on. Many searches on Wiki and on YouTube could give us ideas...I think this is more of a discussion forum as opposed to a research forum. We do post several Wiki, YT, Articles, links so maybe we should just keep it as is. But having an individual list and links to refer back to is a good idea as well...just some thoughts that I'm prattling off for now. I do appreciate your "witty flair" though LOL! cool

Yer going backward, LZ.
There are already search functions (although the one here is dismal, if y'ever tried it).
I'm talking abt a collated collection.

As far as the, uh, purpose of the forum, there are many functions the site serves & might serve, not that there's any conflict between them.
Currently it's an info/news/discussion/music-theory/drivel/speculation/messages-addressed-to-ppl-who'll-never-see-them-here/all-that-&-more site !
twothumbs
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d=halfnote

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#2930387 - 05/31/18 04:33 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: d]
Larryz Online   content
10k Club

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 11414
Loc: Northern California
@ Fang, I think we rely (at least I know I do) on Wiki, YT and Articles for history as opposed to "back up". I have CRS (can't remember sh*t LOL!) and have to check my memory banks now and then before even commenting! I was just thinking it is good to check sources on certain topics/RIP's/stars/demos/etc., and we could maybe garner a few ideas on how the other sites work with our searches should we try to create one on this forum... cool

@ Winston, +1 on my 5/29 post I too asked if anyone has heard from Griff? I have enjoyed many of his threads to include this one. He's been MIA lately and I really hope he is still in good health... cool

@ d, +1 we do get into drivel and speculation as we are pretty diverse. Thus it would be hard to look up info that stayed on topic for the most part. I too have tried the search engine on this site and was not too impressed. Better than nothing though...I was just pointing out that a word or topic search might be a way to go. +1 on a collection of sorts like the one(s) you did on BB... cool


Edited by Larryz (05/31/18 04:33 PM)
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Take care, Larryz

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#2930652 - 06/02/18 04:20 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Larryz]
whitefang Offline
10k Club

Registered: 05/13/02
Posts: 11025
Loc: Lincoln Park, MI, UNITED STATE...
Y'know, it does seem that I recall Griff posting something somewhere in here not that long ago. But I just can't specifically recall. So put me on the "hope he's OK" list too.
Whitefang
_________________________
I started out with NOTHING...and I still have most of it left!

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#2930685 - 06/02/18 09:17 AM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: whitefang]
d Offline
MP Hall of Fame Member

Registered: 03/20/01
Posts: 6977
Loc: no longer lexington, Kenfunky,...
The one search function here that works well is "see members posts" so it's easy to know when/what forum one posted.

For Griff that comes up =
Re: To Transpose Button or Not to Transpose Button...
The Keyboard Corner 02/19/16 08:14 AM
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d=halfnote

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#2930719 - 06/02/18 12:54 PM Re: Joe Bonamassa... what am I missing? [Re: Winston Psmith]
Caevan O'Shite Offline
20k Club

Registered: 04/05/02
Posts: 24809
Loc: The Great Spirit's Handprint o...
Originally Posted By: Winston Psmith
Off topic, but not altogether out of context - Has anyone else noticed that we haven't heard from Griffinator in a LONG time? I know he had some health issues, heart related, IIRC. Just bringing it up because he started the original thread, and he was always one of the more informed and entertaining Forum members. I even checked out his Metal Chef videos on occasion. Anybody have any word?


I had noticed this, and it had come up topically before, a while back; I have tried to contact him, with no replies back...

A refreshed, renewed attempt at making contact presently being made...
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