Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[agitato]

So basically tilting it sideways on the floor (like a floor monitor) would be the way to use it in a band situation, right?

[Doug Robinson]

Yep. No more complaints from my drummer once it's on its side, and the sound doesn't seem to suffer one bit--not from my perspective or from the audience, as I check it as often as possible.

[Bernie9]

DanL

 

I agree that it is a bit of annoyance, but worth it I quess.

[Jetrocker]

Regarding the SKB case, I started putting my SSV3 in the case upside down so the rubber feet (that always get stuck in the case) are at the top. Slides out and goes back in real easy this way.

[B. J. Love]

Handles better when rolling it too; all the weight's at the bottom.

[Jazzmammal]

As far as blasting other players is concerned the only time I got complaints was the first gig I did. I put the SS about two feet up on one of the drummers tom cases. That put the side speaker right in his ear. After the first song I put it on the floor tilted up slightly with a spare power cord and no problem. Since then I use a 3" plastic riser. No complaints because the side speaker is only 6-8" off the floor and it doesn't seem to bother anybody when it's that low. But as we all know this can depend on how the band is forced to set up too.

 

Bob

[Raymb1]

I see from Aspen's photo that the SSv3 is sideways with the speaker firing down. Are the rest of you positioning it this way, the opposite way, or does it matter?

 

 

Exactly the way I use my SS.

[Aspen]

What I'd like to know is: When you position your SSv.3 sideways, do you always set it with the side speaker firing down? Does it make any difference which direction the side speaker is firing, up or down?

 

It seems most the guys, like DB, are positioning the side speaker facing down, and I can imagine that may sound better on a hard stage floor (better reflections, shorter "bloom" distance).

 

But I could also imagine if you were on carpeted stage, and say also next to a wall (hard surface), it may sound better to fire the side speaker up. At least that's what I found when testing this in my big room at APR studios.

 

But frankly, I did not hear a demonstrative difference either way. It really seems to work well both horizontally and vertically...and best if the (either side of) side speaker finds a floor, a corner, or a wall surface as early as possible to "improve the bloom".

 

I can confirm that the face side of the side speaker had a bit more HF range, but the rear side is surprisingly bright for the "back side' of a speaker. That's probably due to the magnet design; notice there is a 1" hole on the back side of the 6.5 Side speaker that goes all the way thru to the voice coil, and in so doing allows a bunch of HF signal to "exit" the back door. There is a fine steel mesh screen at the bottom of that VC hole to keep dirt out of the voice coil...so this is "safe".

 

FYI, we tested a bunch of different side speaker designs, and have also used dual side speaker arrays over the many years I have been playing with this patented technology. The advantage of dual speakers (either facing each other or facing outward and spaced) is that the FR is uniform on both sides...but it adds cost!

 

Using just one side speaker provides enough interplay" to "make the 3D magic", and allows us to keep it more affordable (always a consideration). But as most speakers have a big solid magnet on the back side they are naturally very "one sided", so the trade off of using a single side speaker is losing some FR on the back side. That was a problem with the SS1 (Spacestation and SFX100 w/ mic channel & reverb) and the SS2 (MK2).

 

But this unique Eminence 6'5" open magnet "donut" design has a much more uniform FR front to back. And although not perfectly balanced, it was much improved over the earlier 2 designs. I am not sure that was Eminence's intention when they designed it...but it sure was a good fit for our one side speaker approach when developing the SS3.

 

BTW, for those of you with a SS MK2, we are about to make available a V.3 component upgrade "DIY upgrade kit that includes two L-Pads to balance and "tune" the MF and HF components as you can do with the V.3.

 

There will also be 3 progressive DYI kits; one with just the custom USA made CX2008 8" woofer (poly cone, foam surround...a super cool 8"), and a second that adds to that the USA made MF driver (APT), and a third kit that adds to those this "donut"style 6.5" side speaker. (NOTE: All speakers in the previous SS1 and SS2 were Chinese speakers, not bad but they far short of the SS3 components...especially with regard to the 8" coax woofer.)

 

All of these kits make a noticible sonic improvement in a MK2 (but I do not recommend this for the SS1 amps). That was the box I was using and demoing at NAMM 2014 while I developed the V.3...with all 3 components upgraded and the L-pads installed to trim the 3 components of the Front speaker system. IMHO, an upgraded MK2 is 90% as good as a V.3....it gets very close.

 

Before the V.3 was ready, I had upgraded Michael Boddicker's MK2 amps, and also did a few for some of the guys posting on this forum too.

 

I stopped doing this upgrade when I launched the V.3...just don't have the time anymore. But I have had some requests from MK2 owners so I decided to put these DIY kits up on the website. They should be up there by the end of next week, and you will be able to see the photos directions to evaluate if this is within your skill set.

 

I am really not trying to "sell" these, I just want to provide a customer service option for those who do not want their MK2 sitting in a closet, and/or may not have the $ to buy a new SS3. So I hope this informal "announcement" is Kosher with the group.

[Dave Bryce]

What I'd like to know is: When you position your SSv.3 sideways, do you always set it with the side speaker firing down? Does it make any difference which direction the side speaker is firing, up or down?

 

It seems most the guys, like DB, are positioning the side speaker facing down, and I can imagine that may sound better on a hard stage floor (better reflections, shorter "bloom" distance).

The shorter bloom distance is usually the reason I use the SS sideways.

 

I want to be clear that I don't always do this. If I have six plus feet behind be and can position the SS so the side speaker isn't firing into a band member's ear, I'm actually more inclined to leave it upright and lean it back, like I have it in this pic.

 

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y172/davebryce/Better%20big%20rig_zps1uyyrvcs.jpg

 

Note that in this setup, even though the SS is close to me, I still have it upright. I tried it sideways, but upright was just better.

 

If pushed, I'd probably say that upright and leaning is my default, not sideways.

 

dB

 

[Danny Linguini]

Well I guess the wife is tired of me openly mulling whether I need a sub with the SS or not. I'm very happy with the CP4 through it alone, but I keep wondering if the drum machine is gonna sound like a banging on a bunch of cardboard boxes (which it does even through the Yamahas if I don't EQ it just right). I suppose I could just plug it in and find out, though the confines of the house are no comparison to a live venue. Anyway, she finally said just get one. Since I've totally blown my GAS budget for about the next 5 years and I'm not playing Carnegie Hall in the foreseeable future, I'll keep it light-duty. I'm expecting a couple more outside gigs before the summer is over, so I know it will come in handy there.

 

Watch out, UPS. You too, neighbors with the fireworks.

[Doug Robinson]

I have a question--is anyone else getting what I'd consider 'interference,' a loud whining noise that comes and goes even with no signal present, almost as if it's picking up the signal of a blender or a vacuum cleaner? It's rare but last night was also not the first time it happened.

[ChrisDespo]

I have a question--is anyone else getting what I'd consider 'interference,' a loud whining noise that comes and goes even with no signal present, almost as if it's picking up the signal of a blender or a vacuum cleaner? It's rare but last night was also not the first time it happened.

 

Is your iPhone nearby? I've had interference from that before ... i usually try to keep it as far away from amps/speakers as possible (i realize some are shielded but i still keep them separated) ... hope that helps ...

[cdom]

Perhaps it's my wife, making margueritas and cleaning the house.

 

[cphollis]

I have a question--is anyone else getting what I'd consider 'interference,' a loud whining noise that comes and goes even with no signal present, almost as if it's picking up the signal of a blender or a vacuum cleaner? It's rare but last night was also not the first time it happened.

 

No, never. I would suspect something picking up interference in the signal chain: cables, mixer, etc. Unless someone is running power tools on the same electrical circuit

[cphollis]

Well I guess the wife is tired of me openly mulling whether I need a sub with the SS or not. I'm very happy with the CP4 through it alone, but I keep wondering if the drum machine is gonna sound like a banging on a bunch of cardboard boxes (which it does even through the Yamahas if I don't EQ it just right). I suppose I could just plug it in and find out, though the confines of the house are no comparison to a live venue. Anyway, she finally said just get one. Since I've totally blown my GAS budget for about the next 5 years and I'm not playing Carnegie Hall in the foreseeable future, I'll keep it light-duty. I'm expecting a couple more outside gigs before the summer is over, so I know it will come in handy there.

 

Watch out, UPS. You too, neighbors with the fireworks.

 

I got the Behringer sub, and it sits unused most of the time. A $299 insurance policy. My new BeatBuddy is arriving today, so I'll give that a whirl at some point.

[midinut]

I'm still loving my SSv3, but I'd like to note that instead of only 1/4" inputs, I would have preferred a combination jack for 1/4" or XLR. It would save me from using/buying adapters or special cables. One of my mixers has 1/4" outs where another uses XLR so I'm having to do some shuffling at times that combi connectors would eliminate. I feel certain Aspen has a good reason why he used the jacks he chose, but I don't recall it being discussed before. So I thought I'd stir the pot. lol

[cphollis]

Combo jacks would definitely be a nice, low-cost addition. I dislike having to purchase and carry around special cables.

[timwat]

I'm curious about additional opinions regarding using a bass amp vs a dedicated subwoofer. Timwat was very positive about his GK bass amp - most others (who want more bass response) seem to have gone the subwoofer route. Any additional experiences with bass amps out there?

 

I think it's all a matter of personal preference, not have to.

 

Having done a LOT of gigs now with the SS, ranging from piano only to funk jam to large festivals, throwing everything from one KB to a full rig through it:

 

1) The SS sounds great on its own.

2) The only place it really suffers is trying to kick serious LF low end in a loud band setting. For that, some folks add a supplement.

3) Adding a sub or bass amp makes it sound different. Everyone in the band can hear the difference if you're doing #2. Everything's "fuller"...and I roll off the highs and mids on the bass amp.

4) I don't think anyone would say the SS absolutely "needs" the supplement speaker.

5) If you buy a supplement, what you get with the extra speaker will eventually be balanced vs. the schlep factor.

6) If I'm only playing piano or rhodes, I can hear the diff with the supplement. But I also don't hesitate to gig the SS alone on my solo residency depending how much gear I feel like schlepping.

 

Basically, yes, it makes a difference. But the difference isn't mandatory. It depends how picky you are vs. how much you want to schlep. And I've got a really seriously light bass combo.

 

And the only place I would call the supplement mandatory is if you're generating serious low end (either for LH bass or FX of some sort).

 

So at the end of the day, it's like "salt to taste".

Just my 0.02.

 

Edit: one last thought. the only "have to" I'd cite is you "have to" get a case of some sort. the SS is heavy enough that it's going to get seriously dinged up pretty quickly if you don't protect it. The SKB rolling case is great for protection (and additional handles).

 

One more thought. For all the thought and concern I put into gear, I'm reminded that one of the baddest cats in NorCal (international touring and recording pro) still routinely gigs a PC1x into a Roland KC amp. And he sounds like a damn badass. I will never come close to that. So at some level I'll never reach, badassery overcomes all obstacles.

[Doug Robinson]

"I would suspect something picking up interference in the signal chain: cables, mixer, etc. "

 

It continued to happen after I unplugged everything, but even before then it was just the SK1 running stereo into the amp. No mixer. Maybe my iphone but I don't think so--I almost always have it set on my SK1 to keep track of the length of the set.

[JPerry]

Thanks for the detailed reply, Timwat - I would agree that the SS sounds pretty good on its own, with surprisingly good bass response considering its size. I do the occasional trio gig that requires me to carry the bass line - for that I think I might need a supplement. So far I have only used the SS for practice in my studio, and I have mapped out how to set it up for my particular setup. It requires much more interaction on my part than with other amps I have used, but once dialed in I'm quite thrilled with the results. First gig with it is in a couple of weeks - I'm going to borrow a bass amp from a buddy that night to see how it goes.

Jazzooo - I have had some signal interference experiences, but it was due to my iPhone being next to (sitting on) the mixer - so far the SS has been extremely quiet and well behaved.

[Danny Linguini]

[

I think it's all a matter of personal preference, not have to.

 

. . .

 

1) The SS sounds great on its own.

 

. . .

 

So at the end of the day, it's like "salt to taste".

Just my 0.02.

Very nice and thorough insight.

 

Yes, the SS does sound great on its own, especially considering the size.

 

Much to my doctors chagrin, I like salt.

 

So I've got the PX-5S and the drum machine running through a dry mixer (no effects in the house unit), and I'm still torn. The drums do sound much better than I expected, but .... in many of the songs, the bottom roll-off of the SS is obvious. I don't know if people (not) listening over dinner and beers would even notice, but I would. I can kick up the low EQ on the piano and the drums, but we know what happens when we try to make up for lack of physical speaker area with the EQ knobs. It doesn't sound bad at all -- in fact I was rather pleasantly surprised for the most part -- and it might very well sound better with a little more volume in the larger space of a live venue with hard floors than the small, carpeted area of my music room. There was also a very noticeable improvement when I held the SS tilted back, so it will be down to the workshop to chop up a block of leftover something to stick under the front. I just don't know. I still think I'll grab a smaller inexpensive sub just to try out.

 

Yes, I think that's just what you guys would like.

 

[cphollis]

This little puppy should do the trick

[Raymb1]

This little puppy should do the trick

 

I'd have to have to a roadie for that box!

[cphollis]

This little puppy should do the trick

 

I'd have to have to a roadie for that box!

 

Roadie? It's a svelte 85 pounds. Eat your Wheaties!

 

No seriously, just joking. You'd completely fry your audience if you turned it up.

[Bossbandbob]

I have played a small club, medium sized club and a large outdoor venue with the SS and could not be happier. The outdoor venue was on a big bandstand on a huge Town Common so the Pro sound company had to use the sub out Jack to FOH for the speakers further back in the park. Their mixing station was about a hundred feet from the SS and even they were impressed with how well it' sound carried to them.

Question, thus far I have not used a mixer. I have just been using the VR-09 outputs to the PX-5S inputs and the PX-5s outs to the SS. I use the Roland mostly for organ. I have had no sound or volume issues as I have been adjusting the volume on the PX with its knob and theVR-09 with its expression pedal and I'm very happy to have one less piece of gear to hook up. In my studio I did try the two boards into my power mixer and out to the SS and don't hear any sound advantage. So what am I missing by not using a mixer during shows?

[Danny Linguini]

This little puppy should do the trick

Well, aside from it being much bigger than I need and much more 'spensive than I want to spend right now, it's perfect.

 

I have played a small club, medium sized club and a large outdoor venue with the SS and could not be happier. The outdoor venue was on a big bandstand on a huge Town Common so the Pro sound company had to use the sub out Jack to FOH for the speakers further back in the park. Their mixing station was about a hundred feet from the SS and even they were impressed with how well it' sound carried to them.

Question, thus far I have not used a mixer. I have just been using the VR-09 outputs to the PX-5S inputs and the PX-5s outs to the SS. I use the Roland mostly for organ. I have had no sound or volume issues as I have been adjusting the volume on the PX with its knob and theVR-09 with its expression pedal and I'm very happy to have one less piece of gear to hook up. In my studio I did try the two boards into my power mixer and out to the SS and don't hear any sound advantage. So what am I missing by not using a mixer during shows?

My thing is, I'm solo -- I've got CP4, drum machine and vocals through a TC Helicon all going through the SS. I know it can handle it volume-wise, but too many sound sources coming out with not enough bottom is not good. For keys alone I'd probably be fine. My next gig is inside in a small-mid-sized restaurant/lounge, and I'm going to try the SS alone there and see how it does.

 

But I just ordered one of these. It's not much bigger than the SS and actually lighter, which helps minimize the schlep factor. And it's a small hit on the pocketbook. I'm not looking for window-rattling bass, just enough to fill in the bottom where the SS rolls off, mostly for the lowest notes and the drum machine kick. Review to be forthcoming.

[TimA]

I use a Phil Jones Bass Suitcase amp that sounds great, but he's coming out with these tiny Quantum amps this Fall.here's a brochure showing them:

http://www.pjbworld.com/pdf/PJB2015New.pdf

and here's a guy selling them who's a really great guy:

http://www.guitarx.com/products/phil-jones-pure-sound-q-800-quantum-series-400w-compact-combo-1

They are certainly expensive, but I've found the PJB stuff to be first class, and those are 2 1/2" speakers and the whole package is as tiny and light as you're likely to find for bass stuff. Could be the ultimate tiny surround PA mated with the SSv3...

[agitato]

Wouldn't the canvas cover that Sweetwater offers for the ss be sufficient protection, if you already had a foldable dolly, tp move it?

[Redknife]

Wouldn't the canvas cover that Sweetwater offers for the ss be sufficient protection, if you already had a foldable dolly, tp move it?

IMO, the canvas cover would serve as scratch protection but not knob/grill ding protection. I don't know what you do for moving processes or frequency, so speaking to adequacy is difficult. I wouldn't be comfortable with just the canvas but I can see how it could work just fine with care. I went with the skb case which fits like a glove and has reinforced sides. For me others will be helping to carry and/or loading so the case is an extra layer of protection.

[Aspen]

This little puppy should do the trick

 

LOL, EIGHTY FIVE POUNDS, little puppy indeed! And, what a bargain at just $1,999 (on sale).

 

Guys, I really love the sub harmonic comments here, really, but frankly spoken, when you need a little LF (under 80Hz), you only need a little!

 

As I have posted in Season 1, Episode 2...maybe 90 pages ago, for YEARS I brought along a 15lb 100wt Sony HiFi Sub I bought new at Best Buy, on sale for $99. I happened to stop in there today and noticed they STILL have a Sony 10" 100 wt sub for $99. Only down side is you'll need a RCA to 1/4" cable...but heck, those are cheap too. The footprint is 12x12 so matches the SS3 perfectly.

 

That solution added all the LF a man could want for "most" small to medium" venues I was doing. You will see it in some of my early CPS videos.

 

Not sayin' a better sub isn't worth the $$, and appreciate a quality sub for sure...but when I run that $299 B1200 (post SS3 is my preference) I usually have to be very careful not to over shadow the SS3....just sayin'....so I keep it under 100Hz and about half power.