Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[garnermike]

With all the talk about the $499 ev zxa1-90's and the $2000+ TT08A's sounding clearer and much more defined for ap patches, I'm thinking that a single ssv3 alone without a sub, on the floor, tilted against a wall (in a corner or not) will sound way more accurate for aps, than my current traynor k4, weight/size issues aside. Would most users agree with that assumption?

 

Yes, I agree. I had/used a Traynor K1, and then, later, two K1s, which I linked in Traynor's proprietary stereo mode. Even though I owned a SSv.2 at the time, I was still looking to see if the K1s could give me true stereo definition. They couldn't and didn't. The SSv.2 out-did them in stereo effect. I sold them both, returning to using the SSv.2 exclusively. I later tried the Motion Sound Stereo 500sn, but it too didn't measure up in stereo effect to the SS (even though the 500sn had so-called stereo-expander capability). I returned that 500sn, and upgraded to the SSv.3, which is much improved over the v.2....

[zaphod betamax]

First post.

Just ordered a Centre Point Stereo Box directly from CPS.

Should be here in a week or less.

My keyboards I will test it on:

Roland JX-8P

Roland JX-3P

Waldorf Blofeld

 

My "studio" is only 8' x14' and I will see if I can set up the

CPS for such a small room.

Will test with hard left-right patches on the Blofeld.

 

Will report back when CPS box arrives.

 

Mark Pigott

 

 

 

[Doug Robinson]

Gig report--

 

Last night I played with my new orleans-flavored rock/pop band The SpyBoyz in a new room--a pretty spacious restaurant with a stage. Very loud and echoey room. I decided that it had been too long since I played without my little bass amp to pump up the low end, so I left it home. Then I tried prop up the SS3 horizontally, with the upper edge a good 10 inches off the ground.

 

Whoa! Loved it, loved it. The drummer didn't complain about the side firing speaker (since it was pointed at the stage); friends who'd heard me play before (but not with the SS3) said they had no idea my SK1 sounded so good. Fat and clear at the same time was how it felt to me. Onstage volume was fine for everyone. At the end, I cranked it a bit too much but it was in self-defense as the guitarist got over-excited. I heard some definite distortion on a patch that doesn't have distortion. I switched patches and lost it and forgot about it but I should look into it again the next time I'm set up.

 

For those who have musicians to the near-right and left of you, who complain about the side speaker, try it horizontally, propped up on or an amp stand. Brilliant.

[hardware]

I just use the SSv3 the way the developer suggests.

No extra cabinets, no scientific treatments, every knob set at Noon, tipped back slightly.

Listening to various videos of the same material, even by roaming recorders the SSv3 is consistent from all placements.

The Bassist has 15s and 18s, the Kick drum is 30" with triggers and a loud ass Picolo Snare, we're doing Natucket Sleighride where I use Powerchords, Hammond, Piano and Flute, a loud song by most standards but the SSv3 at Noon makes my mates smile.

They love it as much as I do. Probably because my K12's are now side fills which they are far better suited for.

 

http://s23.postimg.org/58trmkg7v/SSv3.jpg

photo uploading

 

[Doug White]

Here's the rolling case that fits like a glove: http://www.guitarcenter.com/SKB-Small-Rolling-Powered-Mixer-Soft-Case-107221335-i1469153.gc

 

I have put the SS3 on top of this too on stage. It works great if you want a little extra lift.

 

 

 

[Brettymike]

Aspen , have you been talking to Sony??.Stone the crows we just bought this cute little thing for our daughter , and the sound is astounding!, with a "sweet spot" of music filling the whole room everywhere. I can't believe how powerful and good it is, it only measures 60x60x60mm, I can see 3 drivers total >

I knew this day would come with SS3 technology in mini form.

Brett

[jazzkeysxs8]

 

And don't hang out on this forum -- not good for your wallet.

 

I wish I hadn't opened this thread. I was perfectly happy with playing my CP4> MG06X >EV ELX112p. All of these glowing reviews have me GAS-ing, bad!

 

The 132 SPL from ELX112p allows plenty of headroom for loud organ solos and left hand bass (12" plywood cab sounds lush).

 

The 106 SPL from the SSv3 is a large step down in volume (on paper), about -26 db.

 

Has anybody done LOUD gigs with both of these speakers ELX and SS?

If so, how do they compare when you have to compete with loud guitarists "turning up to 11"?

[cphollis]

The SSv3 does best in medium-to-loud settings where you want an incredible stereo sound and a very small footprint.

 

However, when things get stupid loud ... and/or I need a highly directional sound ... I reach for something else in the arsenal. At volumes that loud, having a lush stereo soundfield doesn't matter any more, you just want to be heard over the din.

 

The SSv3 is no slouch and can get surprisingly loud on its own, especially with organs, synths, etc. A B3 clone running through it can go toe-to-toe with a fully-cranked lead guitar. APs can get a bit lost at higher volumes, as you would expect. When I couple it with a Behringer B1200-D sub, I get maybe 3-5 more dB that results from the SSv3 not having to handle lower frequencies.

 

The SSv3 is now my first choice for most gigs, but if I know things are going to get crazy, I bring a pair of self-powered PAs for the inevitable volume wars.

 

If you routinely play at those insane volumes, bring earplugs -- and stay with your self-powered speakers.

 

I don't have the ELX112p, but I do have a pair of QSC K12s as well as a pair of Fulcrum Acoustic 12acs. The QSCs are 1000w each and rated at 131 dB SPL, the FA 12acs are 2000w each and rated at ~130, but sound much, much more like ~140 dB.

 

So, yes, self-powered PA units will usually win the "loud" contest. At those volumes, you can not only overpower the guitarist, but every other instrument and the sound guy as well. As well as cause permanent hearing loss, sterility, blindness, intestinal distress, etc.

 

However, if it's going to be a reasonable night, the self-powered PAs stay home, and it's the SSv3 every time.

 

[PianoMan51]

So, yes, self-powered PA units will ... cause ... sterility.

Sterility from powered speakers isn't a bug, it's a feature!

[Doug Robinson]

Just played my second gig with the spacestation on its side, tilted up by an amp stand. Totally sold on this method for the moment. No more complaints from the drummer about the side speaker.

[Raymb1]

The floor is a perfect reflecting surface for the side speaker. I've been using the SS like this for almost 6 months.

[Bernie9]

I too use mine that way and I don't have to use my keyboard case as a deflector.

[cedar]

Those of you who are placing the SS on its side to reflect off the floor, which side is pointed towards the floor?

[cphollis]

Using just about any amp stand, place sideways with the front 8" speaker still facing front, the side-firing speaker pointing downwards so it can bounce off of the floor. Doesn't work so great on carpet, works great otherwise. Keeps the musicians on your side from getting an unpleasant earful.

[jazzkeysxs8]

Thanks for the K12 / SS comparison cphollis.

Your K12 is a very close match to the ELX112p, so I trust your judgment.

 

Haha, "intestinal distress". I have avoided that scenario so far.

 

This is my current sonic situation:

We play medium to big venues(lots of room to fill), and occasionally ear-bleedingly small venues. We use in ear monitors in our band, and I would be perfectly happy to run exclusively with our in ear system and excellent PA only, and forget all about even bringing a keyboard speaker.

 

Try telling the guitar player to leave his $4,000 amp at home... plus we've an incredibly hard hitting (but musical) drummer. Have you ever asked a drummer to set up acoustic screens? The conversation is a short one - usually consisting of two monosyllabic words.

 

It kind of makes the IEM's redundant seen as you can hear everything, even with the IEM DEEP in your ears. The chain of loudness starts with drums.

 

I've accepted that the LOUD SPL of the band won't change.

 

The ELX can be cranked thru my MG06X for solos and left hand bass, with the ELX level at 12 o clock and CP4 at 3 o clock, so plenty of headroom.

 

I'm intrigued by the SS and cannot wait to hear one - I've no doubt that the keyboard will sound MEGA thru it.

 

My concerns with buying an SS for $750 (unheard,un-tryed) might be a step backwards for me as I would no doubt need a $300 bass cab also which would add another 10-17kg (depending), effectively doubling the weight.

 

Here is my geeky versus list.

 

16.8kg ELX 112p vs 19+17= 36kg SS+bass cab

ELX 112p 132 SPL vs SS 106 SPL

ELX 12"+ ply wood cab for epic bass vs SS 8" MDF bass

ELX $500 vs SS+Bass cab $1050

 

The band use IEMs so probably won't appreciate the 106 db of luscious stereo from the SS anyway,

 

Am I stupid and greedy to order Aspen's wonder amp? I fear I would end up only using it on 15-20% of medium volume gigs.

 

[cphollis]

 

I've accepted that the LOUD SPL of the band won't change.

 

 

Your situation doesn't sound like the greatest fit for the SSv3. It can get very loud for what it is, but it sounds like you're playing in a whole 'nother volume realm.

 

The other thing to keep in mind is that the SSv3 throws and disperses sound much better than a traditional self-powered PA unit, or guitar amp for that matter. That means it's often the case that you don't think you have enough volume on stage, when in reality everyone else can hear you perfectly clearly, including the audience. If you boost your stage volume to what you think is "normal" levels, you can end up overpowering everyone else.

 

Situations like yours in one of the reasons I keep my self-powered PA units around. The people on this forum sometimes give me grief for doing things like bringing 6000w to a gig, but sometimes you need major weaponry to keep up on the volume front. Especially if you have a poor (or no) sound guy.

 

Think of the SSv3 as a complement -- not a replacement. It's very different than what your ELX can do.

[garnermike]

Short of a band member who complains about being in the line of fire from the side speaker, there's no difference (that I can detect) in using the SS with the side speaker facing up, facing down, or in its normal side-throwing position. Yes, a hard floor helps if it's facing down, and low-ceiling hurts if it's facing up.

[hardware]

Personally I found using 2 x K12s hurt my ears since they were too directional and I bought them when I was doing opening act gigs and large lounges like Station Casinos in Vegas has.

 

If you're doing smaller venues and the band is loud, it's because the venue is too small, but that makes the reason for an SSv3 even more crucial IMHO.

 

Below was an outdoor Biker gig where they had a tiny stage as if we were acoustic.

Behind my rack is the Bassists 18" and 15" the drummer is immediately past that, we were crawling over each other.

Bass player is loud and proud, but even cramped on top of each other the SSv3 was heard by all players and sounds great even on it's side.

 

http://s1.postimg.org/nucuhaoxb/DSC_0053_1.jpg

image upload no limit

 

[garnermike]

Hardware: LOL. It looks like half the venues/stages we play on, and the gear set-up ("crawling over each other")very similar to ours too. Love having the SS in these settings, as it helps to reduce my own footprint.

[elif]

...It kind of makes the IEM's redundant seen as you can hear everything, even with the IEM DEEP in your ears...

If your IEMs are hard molded these seals may help. I haven't tried/needed them with my IEMs. (Yet )

[jazzkeysxs8]

That is a good outlook. Different weaponry for different gigs.

 

"Major Weaponry" was definitely required for tonights gig in a medium sized room. Our lead vocalist controls the levels from his iPad. Tonight my keys level was up and down like a yo-yo in the PA - to his taste...not mine. I told him during the gig the keys was at 4/10 volume compared to the vocals 10/10 volume. He assured me I was really up in the mix.

 

Then, at the break an audience member came right up to us and said he couldn't really hear the keyboards from the PA. I found it hard to not be smug!!! I was sad and happy all at once

 

I'll be up in the mix for the next week or so and it'll go back to the normal roller coaster fader-tweaking. The ELX will be my saviour.

 

I wonder has Aspen plans down the line for an XL version of the SSv3?

 

Like incorporating 10"s or 12"s up in the 130SPL range.

What could it be named?

The Monster Space Station?

The Mutant Black Hole?

 

It would probably look like the EV ETX 35p (38.2kg!!).

An epic giant.

If this fantasy MSS/MBH could be trimmed to 20kg or so, I'd happily fork over $1000 - $1200 if it was putting out 130 SPL.

 

Most of the SSv3 demo video's are shot in very sensible situations. Small room, considerate musicians/audience. No hard hitting drums.

 

Has anybody maxxed the SSv3's 106 db out (3 o clock) and still been left behind on LOUD gigs?

[jazzkeysxs8]

I have three pairs of custom molded IEM's. [what a sad brag]

Two are the rubbery type $400 each that fit like a glove. And I have a pair of hard molded ultimate ears that I spent about $1000 on about 6/7 years ago. They aren't as snug a fit anymore (annoyingly) I don't use them.

 

Snug fitting in ears are mandatory for me.

 

Driving home, you will know if your in ears didn't fit you in the gig when the high pitch tinnitus gremlins stab your ear drums. Rim shots and cymbals - ow!

 

I've spent the best part of 2k over the last few years on IEMs. The best money I ever spent.

 

Durex, for ears.

[Aspen]

Aspen , have you been talking to Sony??.Stone the crows we just bought this cute little thing for our daughter , and the sound is astounding!, with a "sweet spot" of music filling the whole room everywhere. I can't believe how powerful and good it is, it only measures 60x60x60mm, I can see 3 drivers total > https://youtu.be/xrg6yF5DPfw I knew this day would come with SS3 technology in mini form.

Brett

Whoa, that caught my attention...but in fact a "false alarm"...and nothing of real concern to me;

 

#1, Sony would not talk to me...even if I called them on my dime (and that's OK w/me)...they do not know I exist (and I'd like to keep it that way!) I am interested in producing music, not reproducing music.

 

FYI, I do have a new Fender amp in the works for acoustic guitar due out later this year...and it will be a smaller format than the SS3...but other than licensing them my technology this will be a Fender product, and the 3rd evolution of a SFX amp (their TM)...but more than that I am not at liberty to say.

 

#2, Brettymike, Did you watch the demo link on this little Sony Ipad speaker you sent me? I did. FYI it's a single amp and single active MONO speaker w/2 extra passive drivers (ie; no voice coils or amp attached...passive radiators have often been used to increase LF in sealed systems like this)).

 

So of course it would it would sound the same everywhere; because it is MONO. It is certainly NOT "stereo everywhere" from one "Center Point" box, and therefore nothing in common w/ my patented Center Point Stereo...thank goodness!

 

They say it can be connected to another one like it via blue tooth to make a Stereo Pair, but then of course it would be just like any stereo pair and would only have a small sweet spot (boring).

 

Then watch the following review (from that link) on that Youtube thread on this new Sony speaker; a very disappointed reviewer saying this new Sony is not as good as a $50 Stereo Angel speaker like you see at every swap meet.

While I am sure it sounds great, rest assured it is not SS3 technology on a mini package with my technology.

 

Of course that thought has crossed my mind. But as any ongoing work on a larger, or smaller, version of the SS3, let's just say I would never "talk the talk" until I was ready to "walk the walk" (if ever).

 

And while I REALLY appreciate your many comments and gig reports on the SS3...and also your well intentioned suggestions and speculation about "next steps", my immediate and near term focus is still trying to produce enough SS3 amps to fill the growing demand.

 

Keep in mind my SS3 has only been shipping for about 10 months, and we've been back ordered (taking orders) for over 8 of those of those months. Even with continuing doubling of our production runs every cycle...it's only been the last 45 days that we have we been able to "ship from our shelves!" And all this success for a speaker that is selling entirely on user testimony and not available to try out in any stores.

 

So this is truly an unprecedented marketing story for a unique and groundbreaking amp. And much (if not most) of our success is directly due to the amazing family of players here on KC who took a giant leap of faith with me to buy one without actually hearing one...for which I will be eternally grateful. And also, I am humbled and truly grateful for their so many informative and honest gig reports with continuing experimentation (such as this "sideways" application!). It seems like every one of you have become a part of my "beta tester" family...the best I ever had...and have taken the SS3 to arenas of application my dear departed partner Drew Daniels and I never imagined.

 

But please understand...if and when I have anything concrete to share about a SS3 "mini", or an SS3 "XL", rest assured I will be talking about it here first...but ONLY when and if you can actually buy one (and not before).

 

And also please be assured...I will not be changing ANYTHING about the SS3...I am not imagining a "new versions". I think the 3rd time of my Spacestation was the charm. And, I'd be a fool to mess with a good thing! You can't fix that which is not "broken"!

 

Lastly, and while I am "commenting on comments" here, I must again remind you that "comparing specs" (like "max SPL") from the spec sheets can be deceiving. Audio is not a "perfect science". Your own ears are your best comparative measurement tools...so don't just rely on the catalog "numbers".

 

For example, the industry standard method for measuring Max SPL is to do so "on axis", directly in front of the speaker and usually @ 1 meter...which is also the way we achieved our SS3 105 max SPL measurement. However, our CPS technology creates a highly unusual 300 degree dispersion...so our SPL level doesn't fall off dramatically as you go "off axis", as with typical the PA speakers. And also, who actually listens to any speaker on axis @ 1 meter! So this really is like comparing "apples to oranges" (or as I have mentioned before; flashlights to light bulbs).

 

Our industry is accustomed to powerful but narrow and beamy "flashlight" style speakers, while CPS is a gentle, broadly dispersed "soft light bulb" type of speaker. Many of you have commented that you are surprisingly heard throughout the stage and room without "blasting out the front row". IMHO, this is one of the most attractive features of CPS. But if you are comparing a PA style speaker with a self proclaimed 131 max SPL to our much broader dispersed CPS w/ a 105 max SPL...you may find the effective volume in the room is much closer than what the "numbers on paper" may indicate.

 

I like to think of our box as big and wide, and not just loud and narrow.

[cphollis]

....Tonight my keys level was up and down like a yo-yo in the PA - to his taste...not mine. I told him during the gig the keys was at 4/10 volume compared to the vocals 10/10 volume. He assured me I was really up in the mix.

 

Then, at the break an audience member came right up to us and said he couldn't really hear the keyboards from the PA. I was sad and happy all at once

 

 

Chuck's third rule of keyboard playing in small bands: always be responsible for your own sound. No way would I depend on FOH sound with bozo at the controls. Bring your own toys, you'll be happier.

 

Has anybody maxxed the SSv3's 106 db out (3 o clock) and still been left behind on LOUD gigs?

 

On occasion, but not like you might think. Standard self-powered PAs sound really loud up close, shoot a focused beam, and drop off rather quickly. The SSv3 doesn't sound all that loud up close, disperses sound everywhere, and doesn't drop off as quickly.

 

In very loud situations, you can lose the ability to hear yourself clearly, but everyone else usually can. It took a while to get used to. And then there's the farting when things really get cranking.

 

I don't think a larger, more powerful SSv3 would hit the mark nearly as well as the current design. The current one gets pretty darn loud, and can cover 90%+ of my playing situations, including enthusiastic drummers, loud guitarists, horn sections, etc.

 

If that's not enough, we're talking a different ballgame entirely.

[Brettymike]

"#2, Brettymike, Did you watch the demo link on this little Sony Ipad speaker you sent me? I did. FYI it's a single amp and single active MONO speaker w/2 extra passive drivers (ie; no voice coils or amp attached...passive radiators have often been used to increase LF in sealed systems like this)).

 

So of course it would it would sound the same everywhere; because it is MONO. It is certainly NOT "stereo everywhere" from one "Center Point" box, and therefore nothing in common w/ my patented Center Point Stereo...thank goodness!

 

They say it can be connected to another one like it via blue tooth to make a Stereo Pair, but then of course it would be just like any stereo pair and would only have a small sweet spot (boring)."

 

 

Yes , I knew it was mono - which sounded outstanding and >*we couldn't tell if it was mono or stereo*<.

And the way it threw the sound everywhere like NOTHING I have ever heard before made me wonder if they had "borrowed" your tricks somehow....just thought I would bring it to your attention. (that disappointed reviewer has got to be mad BTW).

 

I tried to sell a VERY cool invention (I made in 2001) to Caterpiller , years ago through a professional agent and all, and they didn't want nothin THEY hadn't come up with themselves (BIG GUYS way way way up in the clouds ). I still use it to this day , and keep it under secret wraps.

Brett

[Aspen]

Yes , I knew it was mono - just thought I would bring it to your attention. (that disappointed reviewer has got to be mad BTW).

All good, and thanks for bringing it to my attention. But, I am not worried about competition from any mono speaker for a stereo instrument.

 

If you ever heard a CPS system...and I am assuming you have not...I think you'd hear a significant improvement over mono.

 

I tried to sell a VERY cool invention (I made in 2001) to Caterpiller , years ago through a professional agent and all, and they didn't want nothin THEY hadn't come up with themselves (BIG GUYS way way way up in the clouds ). I still use it to this day , and keep it under secret wraps.

Brett

 

Yea, I can relate; that's called "it wasn't invented here syndrome". I had that experience myself with several large companies in this industry to whom I offered a CPS license. They all turned me down, for much the same logic.

 

And with the singular exception of my license to Fender for their SFX line of acoustic guitar amps, which at one time held a 42% market share using my patent, I was unable to find any "big company" to "see the light".

 

So, that's the primary reason I decided to make this SS version 3 myself...and I'm kind of glad it worked out that way because on this 3rd version I had total control over the product....and I could take my time to get it right.

 

Of course if the great folks over at Sweetwater had not agreed to back my solo play, there would be no v.3. Fate blessed me with two great partners; Eminence USA who is my manufacturing partner, and Sweetwater Sound who is my dealer partner. So I can just focus on designing the best amp possible.

 

Perhaps you should look for a similar arrangement for your idea.

 

 

[Brettymike]

Hey Aspen , sorry to be off the topic a bit , but have you seen the true story about Robert Kearns who invented intermittent car wipers and his battle which he eventually won against the car makers? - Fascinating > https://youtu.be/nY1twHF-yQQ

Brett

[jazzkeysxs8]

Screw it.

I'm going to order the SSv3 on Thomann now. Don't tell my fianceé, we're getting married in September - I should be saving. I'm still technically single... she won't know the difference if I hide the ELX!!!

 

On a completely separate note, anybody want an ELX112p?

I bought it less than 3 months ago...

Explaining the new B1200d will be tricky. "Its a coffee table".

Thanks everyone cphollis, Aspen, elseif.

[J. Dan]

Screw it.

I'm going to order the SSv3 on Thomann now. Don't tell my fianceé, we're getting married in September - I should be saving. I'm still technically single... she won't know the difference if I hide the ELX!!!

 

On a completely separate note, anybody want an ELX112p?

I bought it less than 3 months ago...

Explaining the new B1200d will be tricky. "Its a coffee table".

Thanks everyone cphollis, Aspen, elseif.

 

Anything you get now will count as "premarital property" in the divorce.

[zaphod betamax]

Unpacked and playing with the Center Point Stereo system

This is a small room of 8' x14'.

Let me know your impressions.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3_VEfeMEKF0&feature=youtu.be

 

Mark Pigott

Sarnia, Ontario, Canada (eh)