Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Danny Linguini]

Sorry I meant does (the Electro voice ZXA1 sub) steal as much gain from above the (Berhunger B1200 sub) 100hz crossover point!

Niven.

 

+1; Good question and one I also would like to have answered.

 

Perhaps one of our fellow SS3 owners here w/ this EV sub could try it PRE and POST SS3 and let us all know if the gain level to the SS3 is attenuated in the POST routing.

 

Hey Aspen, just curious -- do you witness the same gain drain if you use the passthru outputs from the B1200 into the SS3 as you do using the hi-pass filtered outs?

[Tombsalley]

I have 2 of these Ev subs but, I was told the outputs

Were full range & that the 100 hz was a crossover

Point for the speaker. Yet I've seen YouTube vids

Saying it is at 100 hz out. So?

I haven't tried it that way as I use a mixer

Aux out for sub.

[DanL]

DanL - why not use the SS3 and use the out from that into one of the ELX15P's?

 

I'm thinking of doing something similar with my SS3, except into my one newer Mackie 12" Thumps (with "1000 Watts" of digital power).

 

Haven't needed to yet, but wondering if it will work. Been meaning to try something like that.

 

I suppose you'd lose some of the M/S sound quality of the SS3 with another speaker running mono, but you could certainly get back some low end "whoompf".

 

Maybe it doesn't work, just wondered if you or anyone else has tried this approach -

 

 

I've thought of doing this with my K10 before.

 

In this show environment, there are 10 people on stage. 3 guitars, 2 of which are running in stereo so 5 amps on stage plus bass, drums, sax, singers, etc. I need to move a little more air than what the SS3 can do. Don't get me wrong- LOVE the SS3, but a show like this, I'd be struggling.

 

I'm still torn between using IEM's and not using any speakers at all, we have like 7 monitor mixes for everyone and I know we can make it sound good, but I want to be more "live" and hear the audience reaction and be able to better communicate with the rest of the players.

[hardware]

DanL.

I use a vented pair for stage and then a closed/isolated set for recording/mixing.

Interaction with members and the audience in small venues is important and the vented models work great.

 

I got the Roxanne Series from JH Audio.

I run my SSv3 at Noon, no tweaks, just a 4 Inch riser with I can add shim's to adjust the angle, up to 25 degrees.

 

Check in your area for an audiologist and see about the vented/universal type.

If they sound good to you then imagine a custom mold with vents.

 

Gigs have never been so much fun..

 

[niven8]

Hi Tom...

I m very confused as to how the Zxa1s work...I'd prefer to buy one good zxa instead of the Behringer 1200 that everyone's using. But I really don't understand what's going on with 100hz bit!

Would it be possible for you to try going inot the SS first then out to the zxa and see what that sounds like...... and then into the zxa and out to the SS ( which I think would be the best way to protect your 8ins speaker..) and then report back on the forum to help others and myself and also Aspen about your findings...re is there a clear loss of gain when you go through the ZXa 1 first and the into the SS? It's a bit cheeky to ask this of you, but it really would be v v helpful...

Regards Niven8.

 

[endlessummerkeys]

Just an FYI the crossover on the B1200-D Sub is active

 

[niven8]

Hi,

Just found a video of how to connect up ZXA1 sub to the ZXA tops....the tops have a 100hz hi pass crossover! So ZXA1 sub is full range?

There's a little button in the tops thats used when you attach the ZXA1 Sub...

So no way of going through the sub and filtering out the lows before you hit the

tops.

Regards

Niven.

[Tombsalley]

Hmmm.. That's not what this guy is saying. (See video below)

So, we'll have to see about that.

Check this video out. Now he may be mistaken. Might need to ask EV direct on this. I have some gigs and have to work so, not sure when I could try this.

Here a video claiming it crosses over @ 100hz on the output. In other words

He says all information 100hz and above go to the tops.

You be the judge...

 

[niven8]

Hi Tombsalley,

I hope he's right! I like EVs but I came across this:

Maybe I've got things wrong! ( Hopefully!).

Niven8

[Six-string-man]

This is NOT a political opinion nor am I insinuating that one system is better than the other, but before everyone starts complaining about VAT, most of Europe has free pre-natal care, paid maternity and paternity leave, incredible train and public transportation systems, low cost or free tuition at universities, and universal free healthcare. They pay for much of these services through VAT.

 

So it's not an Apples to Oranges argument.

 

 

Sorry Dave, but I need to take issue here. VAT was introduced in 1973 in the UK. We had the free pre-natal care and maternity leave and reasonable transportation systems in place well before that, the money came from general taxation, and something called purchase tax. This is similar to the tax you pay when buying something, except where you pay 6%-9% (I believe), we paid 25%.

 

These days, on top of income tax (20%) we pay national insurance for the health service (10%). These come off earnings. Then when we go to buy something, we pay VAT at 20%. It is estimated that the average Brit pays a total of 63% of their average annual income in taxes, due to the aforementioned, plus hidden costs such as fuel tax.

 

Also, our universities are not free. My daughter left uni after doing a three year degree owing over £30,000 ($45,000) in tuition fees.

 

 

SSM

[Al Coda]

Hi,

Just found a video of how to connect up ZXA1 sub to the ZXA tops....the tops have a 100hz hi pass crossover! So ZXA1 sub is full range?

 

No. The range of the ZXA1 sub is 44-118Hz.

 

A.C.

[Doerfler]

This is NOT a political opinion

Sorry Dave, but I need to take issue here.

SSM

 

wow, took 108 pages (by my count, not Joe's) for this thread to get completely derailed.

Must be a record.

[Doerfler]

Hmmm.. That's not what this guy is saying.

He says all information 100hz and above go to the tops.

You be the judge...

don't know who this guys is but he doesn't work for EV that's for sure. He may be correct if he is referencing the matched EV speakers for the sub because of the little blue "with sub" button. However the SS3 doesn't have a "with sub" button so it doesn't apply here. As German brother AC has posted several times, the only sub with a built-in crossover is the B-1200. Everything else will send a full range signal to the SS3. That doesn't mean it's bad, it's just not optimal.

[Jazzmammal]

As German brother AC has posted several times, the only sub with a built-in crossover is the B-1200. Everything else will send a full range signal to the SS3.

 

If you need something better than the B 1200 you could get something like this and then use anything that has decent bottom end like a powered PA speaker or bass amp.

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CX3400?adpos=1o2&creative=55686105241&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CjwKEAjwnKCrBRCm1YuPrtWW0QMSJAC-5UYkjJ5GVXslFsdYFimQDoFfqZqk-dJ5PXuV1Pd5d1tXihoCXNXw_wcB

 

It's not very expensive and pretty easy to sit on the cabinet with velcro. I don't know if this is a good one or not but Aspen could tell us. Yeah, I know more pieces, more cables when we're all trying to simplify our setups but hey, if you need it you need it.

 

Bob

[J. Dan]

As German brother AC has posted several times, the only sub with a built-in crossover is the B-1200. Everything else will send a full range signal to the SS3.

 

If you need something better than the B 1200 you could get something like this and then use anything that has decent bottom end like a powered PA speaker or bass amp.

 

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/CX3400?adpos=1o2&creative=55686105241&device=c&matchtype=&network=g&gclid=CjwKEAjwnKCrBRCm1YuPrtWW0QMSJAC-5UYkjJ5GVXslFsdYFimQDoFfqZqk-dJ5PXuV1Pd5d1tXihoCXNXw_wcB

 

It's not very expensive and pretty easy to sit on the cabinet with velcro. I don't know if this is a good one or not but Aspen could tell us. Yeah, I know more pieces, more cables when we're all trying to simplify our setups but hey, if you need it you need it.

 

Bob

 

That's a little overkill for this application as you don't need 3-way, CD horn compensation, etc. Even cheaper is this one, which has a dedicated subwoofer out:

 

CLONK

 

For a little more money, you can get similar products from ART, peavey, DBX, etc.

[Jazzmammal]

Good point, that looks great.

 

Bob

[niven8]

Hi, Al Coda!

Thanks for replying....cause I don't really know what I'm talking about, as you may have gathered!...So does this mean that the EVs are grabbing about 18hz worth of the SS's frequencies? Might this cause some probsi (if I go the EV first then the SS..). All I'm really looking for is to protect the 8" and have a seamless " quality" join between the sub and the SS...I'd be very grateful for any advise ..

Niven.

 

[Raymb1]

You don't have to protect the 8" speaker unless you're trying to overdrive it. As has been previously mentioned, you can't expect the SS to compete with a stack of Marshalls.

[Al Coda]

Even cheaper is this one, which has a dedicated subwoofer out:

 

CLONK

 

For a little more money, you can get similar products from ART, peavey, DBX, etc.

 

Yes, in theory any adjustable 80-125Hz stereo Hi-Pass Filter network in the signal path feeding SSv3 would do the trick.

 

Otherwise it now becomes amusing finding a solution avoiding Behringer brand sub in a combination w/ SSv3 and now using separate active Behringer x-overs while I can imagine the Behringer B1200D Pro uses the same or a derivate inside.

 

 

A.C.

[Al Coda]

You don't have to protect the 8" speaker unless you're trying to overdrive it. As has been previously mentioned, you can't expect the SS to compete with a stack of Marshalls.

 

When you stress a small cone speaker w/ low frequncy content it cannot properly handle, this in the sense you force the speaker cone and surround do mechanical movement beyond the purpose it was designed for, the speaker won´t live as long as you wish, measurable intermodulation distortion rises and in worst case the voice coil doesn´t move precisely in the magnet´s gap anymore.

You might get these "farting" sound a few other mentioned before.

It seems, since we have these compact DSP controlled, optimized and protected active fullrange cabinets in the market, no one cares about what a loudspeaker really is anymore.

Have in mind the loudspeaker itself is still the weakest part in the audio chain and you cannot change physics much.

Also have in mind how measurements in the audio industry really work.

When reading a frequency range of 100Hz-20KHz p.ex., this can be measured at a -3dB point or at -10dB.

Means, mechanical stress on cone, surround and voicecoil might occour later or earlier.

 

A.C.

[Tombsalley]

Sorry, what I meant are the outs full freq. outs or do they have a high pass filter.

Some times I just dash through with my comments or responses. so, sorry for the

wrong definition.

[Tombsalley]

I am stugling a little bit with the 2 SS situation. However I am making some strides

in countering issues. Some of it is user error. But, i must omit I miss my Yamaha DSr112's at times because I know what they can do and it is easier to adjust

what I am looking for. My original idea with these (SS) was to make things simpler and

cover all the bases with very little set up. But,lately I find it overwhelming to adjust

and try to get the right placement on real gig situations. And the louder these have

to be pushed to cover the further away from them you should be! These get loud!

I had complaints last night that it sounded muffled on some songs but really clear on others/I believe it to be user error because of some light compression(sub outs &mains) I tried. I don't think they like compression. So, I removed it for the last set,a bit better.

I haven't given up but, If I can't get it right soon,I may have to admit defeat and consider using a single SS as our monitor and search for a pair of mains.

 

[Tombsalley]

If I should go the route of mains I'm looking at Yamaha DXR8, DXR10 or DSR112's

Or the QSC K8's.

I've owned all but the DXR8's. I felt the DSR112 the best of course,the DXR10 second and the QSC K8's third. Just from some use. Owned the DSR112's longest.

I'm hoping I don't have to however. BTW, It would be paired with 1 or 2 EV ZXA-1 subs. (ME)

[HammondDave]

Look at the new EV EKX series. They look very interesting. I don't think the 8" QSC's will do it for ya.

[Tombsalley]

Thanks for your input! Personally I like the Dsr112's but, don't know if I can afford right now.Still paying for what I have! Also like the DXR10's /I've used for indoor gigs. Don't know how they do on larger gigs,outdoors...

[HammondDave]

I am not a fan of QSC. Had the 10's and I sold them almost immediately. They did not have the flat power or stable freq response. EV's seem to excel in that.

[Tombsalley]

I've had EV's in the past but, many,many years ago! The unpowered 12's can't remember the moldel,plastic enclosure. Never an issue.

I like the subs I have for sure!

[HammondDave]

You don't have to protect the 8" speaker unless you're trying to overdrive it. As has been previously mentioned, you can't expect the SS to compete with a stack of Marshalls.

 

When you stress a small cone speaker w/ low frequncy content it cannot properly handle...

You might get these "farting" sound a few other mentioned before.

 

 

A.C.

 

Do you mean that the next time I fart on stage I can blame it on the speaker? They already smell of marijuana (due to some strange glue EV used).

 

So when someone tells me that I stink, they are really talking about the speaker as well?

[Tombsalley]

I do want to give this SS some time before i pull any plug in all fairness. Keep in mind what I'm trying to do with them may be a bit unconventional.

 

[Tombsalley]

I have a gig tonight,weather may conflict with use of my SS's so,we'll see how it responds tonight outside if it doesn't rain!