Heads-up: SpaceStation keyboard amp is apparently back

[Raymb1]

That's what my wife said when she first heard the SS. You don't hear it until you're at least 6 feet away from the unit. Play a CD or your keyboard's demo and you'll hear the surround sound.

[garnermike]

Will be faced with three very different gigs this holiday weekend, acoustically-speaking. For any SS newbies, just thought I'd share my plans for positioning/using the SS, FWIW to y'all.

 

(Reminder: I play an SK1. For these medium-large gigs, I tend to use the SS's sub-woofer link, either going to a G-K MB110 combo bass amp (10" speaker, 100 watts) or a Promethean P3115 combo bass amp (15" speaker, 300 watts). And very generally speaking, I set the EQ's (high, mid, low) on those bass amps all at 12 o'clock (maybe set the low [bass] at 1 o'clock). And I keep the volume of those bass amps just to the point where I can hear it kicking in to reinforce/complement the SS.)

 

First venue is outdoors, in a pedestrian mall lined by two brick buildings (former tobacco warehouses). The band is on a 12" high, heavily-carpeted riser, and the entire stage is covered with a soft canvas canopy. Given the soft canopy above and the soft surface floor below, there are really no other options but to set up the SS in its normal vertical position (can't hope to bounce the SS sound off those surfaces). I'll just place it atop the larger linked bass amp. Given that the mall is quite big (long) and about 1000 people show up, I'll run a cable from the Promethean's DI to our main PA/FOH set-up, and bleed in some SS volume.

 

Second venue is a medium-sized club with a small band area footprint, a hard floor, and a venue owner who does not want us to drive away customers with high volume. I'll use the smaller G-K bass amp as the sub-link, and an amp stand for the SS, positioning it horizontally, with the side speaker angled down toward the hard floor. I have done this several times now, and the sound/bloom reflection off the hard floor has been very good.

 

Finally, the last gig is again back outside, facing a parking lot, and the band is under a very extended/high/hard building eave. I'll use the sub-link to the larger bass combo amp, and place the SS horizontally on the amp stand again---but this time aiming the side speaker UPWARD. I played this same spot a year ago, and set up my older v.2 up this way, and the bloom was one of the best I ever experienced with that unit.

[Tombsalley]

Ya know, I hate to admit this but, I have had moments like this.

All be it with a different circumstance as I am using it more as a PA.

My first experience with it ddn't really wow me either at first.

What I thought it would do is give me that spaced pair sound.

Instead it gave me all the sound left,right middle,everywhere.

How close was the speaker to you?

You need some distance to realize what you have. Think about where

Your wife was. She wasn't right up on it. But, she thought it sounded

Good, right? This happened at a gig for me. Was too close

To really get it. But, I was told that the sound was clear and even and

That it was ez to communicate and for once they could here the vocals

Better than ever before. I could however hear everything in the mix much better

And I believe this translated to a better mix. Maybe why the vocals were easier

for folks to hear.

Give it some time and adjust it to taste. Everything has some kind of

Comprimise so, Nothing is 100% perfect. But, I feel with the options that are out there This has been the best thus far. Don't be afraid to experiment either

As this leaves a lot of room for that. and it makes it fun to use.

Hope you.'ll find it a great tool as most here do.

BTW, don't over use the side speakers (width) right away as I found this

Adjustment caused some of my disappointment early on.

It sounded like too much reverb!

The room can make a big difference in what you hear.

Adjust with your ears first and last!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[garnermike]

Yes, one needs to put some distance between oneself and the SS. You might also try using the SS horizontally, trying it with the side speaker facing up and then facing down.

 

And if you were expecting to hear that back-and-forth, L and R alternating stereo "wobble" (that you would hear when using two separate mono amps from your L and R outputs), you won't, so don't.

 

Using an SS does take a bit of a "leap of faith" (on the kb player's part) that there is indeed a stereo effect filling the room. Meanwhile, believe what your wife is telling you!

 

[wineandkeyz]

Thanks, Mike and TA. Yeah, I just need to spend a little more time with the SS. I have two gigs this weekend: an outdoor festival that I've never been to and an indoor theater that probably holds 1000 or more. The outdoor gig is one of those "stage your gear offstage during the opener then throw everything onstag, line check and go" shows, so I'm wary of adding anything new to the mix. But the theater show is just us, so I'll have more time to dial my stuff in. I may brave it and break out the SS then.

[cphollis]

The "throw" of the SSv3 took me a while to get my head wrapped around. I still get faked out by it. I didn't really fully appreciate it until someone sat in for a song on keys, which freed me to walk around and check out the sound. It was eye-opening.

 

Totally unlike a familiar keyboard amp or self-powered PAs. What you hear up close is not what everyone else hears. You think you're not loud enough, everyone else thinks you're either just fine or too loud. The tone shape changes as well -- more clarity and presence at a distance.

[Aspen]

Hm, this thing is gonna take some gettin' used to. I just bought an SS V3 from a local guitarist who decided it just wasn't for him. Spent some time with it yesterday in my practice room, running a Yamaha S90ES and Roland Fantom X7 thru it. I was feeling pretty positive about how it all sounded.

I have two gigs this weekend, so I wanted to try it out with my gig rig, an S70XS and Hammond XK3 with Vent. (I also have a second X7 I use live.) I set everything up in my garage, which is about 2/3 floor below my living room. I went thru all the setups I use regularly on the S70XS, then tried the organ. I was a little disappointed, to be honest. Some things sounded spectacular, others... Not so much. I just wasn't hearing what I had hoped to hear, especially based on the time I spent with it yesterday.

I packed everything up and came inside. My wife was sitting in the living room reading. I said, "I don't know if I'm going to keep that thing. It just didn't wow me."

She said, "Really? It wowed me! At one point, I thought you had come inside and were playing the grand piano! I thought everything sounded great!"

Guess I need to give this a little more time!

 

Thank you Wineandkeys for your leap of faith, much appreciated...and welcome to the Center Point Stereo family.

 

It seems incredible to me that every SS3 owner bought one thru the internet without actually going into the local music store and trying it out. Just goes to show how much "times have changed".

 

I stared my musical marketing adventure back in 1967 as the first "under 50" floor salesman of an upstart new MI branch of the Organ Center chain on Sunset Boulevard in Hollywood California. It was called The Vox Guitar Center. This was later shortened to just "The Guitar Center" (Vox had paid $5K for the whole sign, but Wayne Mitchell removed the "Vox" later in order to attract other lines).

 

If you had told me back then that there would be this a store in Ft Wayne Indiana (where?) that would become the largest single location supplier of MI gear in the nation, I would have thought you were on drugs (actually, not so unlikely back in those daze...).

 

So, to your 1st impressions comment; I totally agree...this new CPS technology takes some getting used to! If you evaluate using traditional "close up" methods (and why wouldn't you?), it can at first be a bit underwhelming, especially after hearing some of the gig reports here!

 

There are several folks here who took awhile to understand how it works, and "dial it in". That's because CPS is just different. One SS3 user here has coined a phrase on his signature I really like; "Spacestation v.3, everything else is just a box".

 

Usually you would evaluate any stereo speaker system by just standing closely in front of it at that perfect angle, the "sweet spot"...and knowing that is the best it's ever going to sound. Or, when evaluating a mono KB amp, same thing; standing closely in front and also knowing that's as good as it's gonna get because ALL traditional speakers (stereo or mono) lose clarity and content as you move farther away.

 

But that evaluation approach is exactly NOT the way to judge and/or adjust the parameters of our CPS speaker. You will need to get (at least) 6 feet away and preferably well off axis...like 45 degrees. And you will discover, unlike traditional speakers, CPS actually sounds BETTER as you get some distance from it...and also...the CPS "sweet spot" 3D image NEVER collapses!

 

Some have noted, and I agree, that CPS is really not the hard L&R stereo you are accustomed to hearing, but that it's more like a bigger 3D image...and I agree. Our image contains all the left and right information, but also contains some "Front to Back" information...not usually heard with a 2D stereo systems. Hence the extremely realistic Leslie simulations. Some have said our SS3 sounds even better than a real Leslie, and certainly it is much louder!

 

Having a loop play while you walk around a larger room is very revealing. I suggest this on your first gig setup, so you can have the confidence that what you and your band mates are hearing is exactly what the audience is hearing...even to the farthest rear corner of the room...it still amazes me, kinda like some sonic miracle from above!

 

I note (with gratitude) the encouraging comments from "seasoned" SS3 users here, who echo this advice (pun intended...sorry, couldn't resist). And while I cannot add much more to those thoughtful and accurate comments, I'd like to offer a visual analogy to describe and better understand the CPS phenomenon; "Flashlights vs. Light bulbs".

 

Even the best full range PA cabs are quite directional...we often use multiples of these cabs aimed in ever direction to overcome this and achieve "coverage". So I call these "flashlights", which can be blinding is you sit right in front, and not so effective off axis. If you ever had the misfortune to get to a gig late and so had to sit up front to the side, so directly in front of the left or right PA cab...you know what I mean; it's deafening!

 

The Bose speakers offer a bit wider dispersion, less directional than a 2 way system...I think that why folks like them on first impression. These are still a "Flashlight", albeit a more diffused flashlight and not as "bright", but this at the sacrifice HF and LF response (hence the term; "no highs or lows; must be Bose). They absolutely require a sub...and also 10x the power to get the same SPL as say a JBL or QSC 2 way design...and here's why.

 

The Bose approach is an "all cone" speaker, no woofer, horn or tweeter. They package multiples of cheap 4" car speakers in bi-angled or line arrayed cabs that have a natural FR curve that looks "mountain", to which they apply an active FR correction curve resembling a "valley" in order to get a FR curve that is somewhat "flat".

 

This approach greatly sucks out all the the natural efficiency of these narrow midrange transducers, so then these systems require gobs of "make up" power to over come...like 10x the power to get the same SPL an efficient JBL 2 way system. They do offer a more gentle and wider dispersion, but at the cost of efficiency, full bandwidth and clarity....not to mention much more expense in electronics.

 

However, either of these traditional "flashlight" speaker systems are still challenged to produce "stereo" in any room because 1) you need two of them, and 2) you will only hear that stereo image if you are standing in some small sweet spot where these two "Flashlight's beams" first converge. So everywhere else is the "sour spot"; too much Left (and no right), too much Right (and no left), or even worse...the phase cancelled artifacts of these combined flashlights if you are too far back in the room and out of that small sweet spot. This is why most FOH stereo PA systems are mixed L+R Mono...that way everyone in the audience hears what the sound engineer hears.

 

By contrast...CPS offers a "light bulb" approach...which softly and evenly lights the whole room from one place.

 

First year photography students are often taught to light a subject with just one light bulb placed somewhere in the room. It just looks natural. Like an outdoor shot with just one Sun.

 

Our approach is the 300 degree dispersion light bulb approach...but we to use TWO lightbulbs from one position. Like a 3D movie, we have two very different colored lightbulbs; Red and Green. So they do not mix until they reach your eyes and then they form a 3D image...no mater where in the room you are positioned. Likewise, CPS can produce that "bigger than stereo" 3D result like no conventional speaker ever will....it's just physics, but it's COOL physics!

 

Best of all, we do it with ONE speaker, and the CPS image never changes, or collapses, no matter where you stand int he room...or even into the room next door!

 

So, it does take some adjustment...but it is well worth the effort!

[MotiDave]

Ok, so it arrived last night. Brief attempt to taste without completely annoying the wife ... and ... i'm not sure. it was close to me, definitely sounded better with APs but if this is really taking me to that nirvana ... not sure yet. more unsure of the B1200 to be honest, sort of a dull thud of a LF sound, need to explore this more.

 

help request - i have rehearsal tonight and live tomorrow - no time to "get to know" these units in a personal manner and match to my set list sounds. This band set uses Wurly EP, B3, Moog, and Poly String sounds, thats it. I configured from my keyboard to B1200, filtered B1200 outs to SSv3. What do owners recommend as starting set points for:

 

SSv3:

- Width

- Mids Contour

- Highs Contour

 

B1200d

- Boost Frequency

- Boost On or Off (Do I want Boost Freq on?)

- High Cut

 

Reading the B1200 brochure today, it doesn't describe th High cut as controlling what is sent to the SSv3, it describes the upper cutoff for the B1200 transducer? Filtered out is set at 100 Hz?

[wineandkeyz]

Hm, this thing is gonna take some gettin' used to. I just bought an SS V3 from a local guitarist who decided it just wasn't for him. Spent some time with it yesterday in my practice room, running a Yamaha S90ES and Roland Fantom X7 thru it. I was feeling pretty positive about how it all sounded.

I have two gigs this weekend, so I wanted to try it out with my gig rig, an S70XS and Hammond XK3 with Vent. (I also have a second X7 I use live.) I set everything up in my garage, which is about 2/3 floor below my living room. I went thru all the setups I use regularly on the S70XS, then tried the organ. I was a little disappointed, to be honest. Some things sounded spectacular, others... Not so much. I just wasn't hearing what I had hoped to hear, especially based on the time I spent with it yesterday.

I packed everything up and came inside. My wife was sitting in the living room reading. I said, "I don't know if I'm going to keep that thing. It just didn't wow me."

She said, "Really? It wowed me! At one point, I thought you had come inside and were playing the grand piano! I thought everything sounded great!"

Guess I need to give this a little more time!

 

Thank you Wineandkeys for your leap of faith, much appreciated...and welcome to the Center Point Stereo family.

 

It seems incredible to me that every SS3 owner bought one thru the internet without actually going into the local music store and trying it out. Just goes to show how much "times have changed"

 

[snip]

 

So, it does take some adjustment...but it is well worth the effort!

 

Thanks, Aspen! Oh, I'm definitely going to give the SS v3 a fair shot.

I was digging how it sounded in my rehearsal space and I love the weight (compared to the Traynor K4 I use now).

I realize from your comments that in my rehearsal space I was listening off axis, while I had it pointed straight at me in the garage. And to be fair, my garage is a terrible place to audition speakers, anyway! So I plan to give it a try at tomorrow night's gig. I'll report back!

[MathOfInsects]

I probably shouldn't admit this, but I only convinced myself last night that if I am going boards > mixer > ss3, and not using one board as a controller for the another, I do not need to keep L and R consistent at any point in the signal path.* Board LR can go to mixer RL, one board can get it right and another can get it "backward," it doesn't matter. SS3 still creates the exact same "stereo" throw, since all it cares about is the differences between the two signals, regardless of what they are. (The lines to the ss3 themselves don't really matter, since the inputs are not really L and R as they're labeled, but something more like "1" and "other 1.")

 

Correct? As long as I am not using one board as a controller for the other, I should not see any phase cancellation issues, even FOH. I should literally be able to plug each board into the mixer without regard to L and R, so long as each is sending one signal to each side, in the usual [dual] mono style.

 

I know this to be true, and yet I'm so used to thinking of my boards and the ss3 as a "stereo" match that it activates some kind of OCD anxiety in me. No more color-coding cables? How can it be? Next thing you know, David Letterman will retire.

 

*As long as I do not want to run in stereo FOH

[Danny Linguini]

... more unsure of the B1200 to be honest, sort of a dull thud of a LF sound, need to explore this more.

 

That's all you're going to get out of the sub itself -- it ONLY projects frequencies below the cutoff point; without getting into sound science, let's just say there's a LOT more to low notes than just the fundamental tone frequency. All the sub does is supplement the lowest frequencies -- it works with your main speaker(s) to give you the full sound of a bass note. If you're hearing a dull thud over everything else, then the sub's volume is too high.

 

Don't get frustrated -- it's a fine balancing act to get all the components set just right to work together to produce that perfect sound, and the trial-and-error required to get there is only compounded with the added combination of settings on the SS3. But once you get there, it's pure auditory bliss.

[DanL]

Ok, so it arrived last night. Brief attempt to taste without completely annoying the wife ... and ... i'm not sure. it was close to me, definitely sounded better with APs but if this is really taking me to that nirvana ... not sure yet. more unsure of the B1200 to be honest, sort of a dull thud of a LF sound, need to explore this more.

 

help request - i have rehearsal tonight and live tomorrow - no time to "get to know" these units in a personal manner and match to my set list sounds. This band set uses Wurly EP, B3, Moog, and Poly String sounds, thats it. I configured from my keyboard to B1200, filtered B1200 outs to SSv3. What do owners recommend as starting set points for:

 

SSv3:

- Width

- Mids Contour

- Highs Contour

 

B1200d

- Boost Frequency

- Boost On or Off (Do I want Boost Freq on?)

- High Cut

 

Reading the B1200 brochure today, it doesn't describe th High cut as controlling what is sent to the SSv3, it describes the upper cutoff for the B1200 transducer? Filtered out is set at 100 Hz?

Aspen has instructions for doing your initial setup, but in a nutshell, start with the volume about halfway up, width down all the way, and the mid and high around halfway. Feed some audio into it and then adjust the width to your liking. Adjust mid/high to your liking. I find I like the width at about noon and then the mid around 1 o'clock and the high around 3 o'clock.

 

I don't use a sub, but I probably wouldn't use any boost at all. Again, use your ears and let them dictate the settings for you.

[I-missRichardTee]

... more unsure of the B1200 to be honest, sort of a dull thud of a LF sound, need to explore this more.

 

That's all you're going to get out of the sub itself -- it ONLY projects frequencies below the cutoff point; without getting into sound science, let's just say there's a LOT more to low notes than just the fundamental tone frequency. All the sub does is supplement the lowest frequencies -- it works with your main speaker(s) to give you the full sound of a bass note. If you're hearing a dull thud over everything else, then the sub's volume is too high.

 

Don't get frustrated -- it's a fine balancing act to get all the components set just right to work together to produce that perfect sound, and the trial-and-error required to get there is only compounded with the added combination of settings on the SS3. But once you get there, it's pure auditory bliss.

 

This may more properly belong on a separate thread, be sure Aspen or whomever to let me know. i thought since subs keep being associated with SS, that I could ask for a little more info about subs ( which I tend to not like ) here.

 

Weight, and price aside... purely the resultant sound: Are all subs the same? or more properly, do you hear differences between various models? I am not at all a fan of DJ's: is it possible to hear comments from a user who actually puts his performance ( not an mp3 ) into a sub?

Also how High a frequency is feasible in a sub... 200 hz?

[MotiDave]

... more unsure of the B1200 to be honest, sort of a dull thud of a LF sound, need to explore this more.

 

That's all you're going to get out of the sub itself -- it ONLY projects frequencies below the cutoff point; without getting into sound science, let's just say there's a LOT more to low notes than just the fundamental tone frequency. All the sub does is supplement the lowest frequencies -- it works with your main speaker(s) to give you the full sound of a bass note. If you're hearing a dull thud over everything else, then the sub's volume is too high.

 

Don't get frustrated -- it's a fine balancing act to get all the components set just right to work together to produce that perfect sound, and the trial-and-error required to get there is only compounded with the added combination of settings on the SS3. But once you get there, it's pure auditory bliss.

i think I have the same questoin as T - is the B1200 sub typical of all subs (accepting a $300 device is not a $1000 device etc etc)

[MathOfInsects]

Well, they all do the same thing, yes: they throw larger waves with greater efficiency/less energy loss than their smaller counterpoints. In terms of punch versus mud, there are certainly differences box to box. But to supplement the ss3, you really need very little sub of any kind. Just enough to caulk the cracks in the foundation that the 8" speaker (with built-in roll-off) leaves up for grabs. So your first step might be to turn the sub down until you *think* you're not hearing it, then turn it off and see if you actually were. If you were, that's a good starting volume for the sub.

 

 

[Danny Linguini]

Just enough to caulk the cracks in the foundation that the 8" speaker (with built-in roll-off) leaves up for grabs.

That was just poetic.

 

So your first step might be to turn the sub down until you *think* you're not hearing it, then turn it off and see if you actually were. If you were, that's a good starting volume for the sub.

 

Couldn't have put this better, too neither. It doesn't need to be UP THERE and all in your face ... it just needs to be .... there. That's why Aspen is usually able to get away with a cheap HiFi system sub -- you just don't need that much of it with this application. The PA subs just give you the added benefit of filtered outputs and adjustable cut-offs and stuff like that.

 

 

[Danny Linguini]

Weight, and price aside... purely the resultant sound: Are all subs the same? or more properly, do you hear differences between various models? I am not at all a fan of DJ's: is it possible to hear comments from a user who actually puts his performance ( not an mp3 ) into a sub?

Also how High a frequency is feasible in a sub... 200 hz?

As was noted earlier, no they're not all the same. Some are louder than others; some have better dynamics and will give you a better thump on things like kick drums or hard-attacking bass notes; larger drivers will move more air and give you bass that you feel in your internal organs; I'm sure there are more differences that somebody will jump on.

 

I think most subs will go up to about 150 hz. Really, just about any good speaker can handle 100 hz and up easily; any more than that is making the sub do more than it was intended to do. It's the low and punchy stuff that will muddy up your sound if you try to push too much of it through a regular speaker, which is why it's beneficial to route those to a sub if you need the volume.

 

For this specific application with the SS3, for the kinds of places that you're likely to use it, you don't need a huge-ass shingle-shaker. I'd say the B1200 is more than capable of handling those situations. If you need more than that, you're very probably exceeding the capability of the SS3 anyway.

 

 

[MotiDave]

thanks guys, really appreciate and value the experienced counsel this forum can provide, there's no other like it that isn't a homer club for Option A vs B.

[J. Dan]

One of the problems running subs too high is that a lot of times they just don't sound very good at those frequencies, and also sometimes they are a lot louder at those frequencies than over the range they were intended to cover. So if you run higher crossover frequencies, you often end up with a very mushy or boomy kind of sound instead of that tight low end. In fact, in PA applications, I typically try to go with as LOW of a crossover frequency as I can get away with. Typically, I like about 80Hz.

 

Outside of that, take a look at specifications, and the things that will matter that you can see on the specs will be low frequency cutoff and max SPL. I suppose Aspen can speak as to what Max SPL would be needed to be a good match for the SS3, I suspect it wouldn't need to be much. Low frequency needed is going to depend on the musical content. The lowest fundamental frequency of the E string on a bass guitar is 41.2Hz. If you're playing a 5 string and going down to B, it's 30.9Hz. However, you don't really need to go that low necessarily to get a good sound - most bass amps don't go that low. Your ear hears all the higher harmonic frequencies and fills in the gaps in your brain. But that should give you an idea of frequency response.

 

The other things you can't see from the specs is distortion, group delay, how smooth the response is, etc. For that, you just have to try it out and give it a listen. Of course they COULD publish those things, but they don't.

[Doerfler]

It's the low and punchy stuff that will muddy up your sound if you try to push too much of it through a regular speaker, which is why it's beneficial to route those to a sub if you need the volume.

 

I went to a forum member's gig yesterday in DC. He kicked bass pedals along with playing LH bass on his Hammond SK2. His "leslie" was a CPS SS3 sitting on top of a Yamaha DXS 12 subwoofer. In this instance, a "kick ass" subwoofer wasn't overkill.

[Jazzmammal]

In this instance, a "kick ass" subwoofer wasn't overkill.

 

Exactly. Anybody who thinks a $300 Behringer sub is just as good as a $1,500 JBL sub...

 

Years ago I sold big screens and medium-high end audio stuff. Jurassic Park had come out about a year prior and we had it on laser disc. One of the sales guys was a real audio engineer who couldn't get regular work in the studios so he was selling to make a living. We had a discussion about subs so he took me over to where he had set up a big Infinity surround system with a Denon receiver and laser disc player. The sub for that system had an Infinity with two 15's, cost about two grand and was 500W I think by itself and the Denon receiver had another 700W or so. He also had a 200W single 12" mid level sub by Boston, maybe Polk that sold for about $300. He demo'd that pivotal scene in the movie where the T-Rex eats the goat, escapes from the enclosure, stands on the road in the rain and lets out that huge roar.

 

He played it first using the 12" sub and I thought it sounded decent, the roar was loud, clear and deep. Then he hit the speaker switchbox that the store used to demo different systems and did it again using the Infinity sub, same volume level and the difference was astounding. I mean really astounding. That roar was so crystal clear, deep and simply much fuller sounding. It was killer is all I can say. I switched back and forth several times and it was obvious that the cheap sub was adding lots of mud that I first thought was just the way it was supposed to sound on a home system. The infinity sub took it to a whole other level.

 

I know we're talking different applications here but quality makes a difference. For most situations we're talking about that Behringer sub is probably good enough but if you're really kicking bass in front of 300 people in a loud venue, you'll need the same setup a good bass player would use and those ain't cheap.

 

Bob

[Brettymike]

Those Infinity's are the best HiFi speakers I have ever heard in my life , they are Fantastic , like being at a live concert and all. (the one's I heard that were stunning was top of the range and tall as)

Brett

[MotiDave]

Rehearsal Report: Band was blown away at how the keys filled the room. I'm used to a directional speaker thats loud towards md, I had to turn down a tad. They said they heard keys well, like it was the same everywhere in the room. Lead guitarist heard all kinds of bits he didnt even know I play. consensus is its a keeper. several comments that my keyboard has some really nice tones. Drummer said I was loud (the side speaker was sorta firing at him - sorry Tom), i turned that down a tad, I thought the tones sounded quite nice.

 

only ding ... I had to crank that thing up really high ... 3 oclock+. not alot of head room for me. signals out of my Motif aren't very hot - I play perf mode so I could adjust some of the voices level up. I played with my board main up above 75-80%, which is higher than I have been setting it of late but not a big deal. I played this very loud UFO set without going to the PA at all, and it filled the room with a crisp but not harsh sound that filled the room.

 

generally thats my only concern - I really don't want to have to bring a mini mixer and add another chunk to the set up/strike chain.

 

Gig tonight. B1200d was fine, can't say I even notice it enough to rate it. it helps, sure, but ... ???. I need to decide if i'm keeing that or stepping up in class a notch. also pondering the advice of the guys who recommend a speaker vs sub ...

[Joe Muscara]

Every time I read a post where someone says something like, "everyone in the band could hear me clearly, they said they could hear me playing things they never knew I did," I think, "uh oh. Maybe I don't want one of these..."

 

[Danny Linguini]

... also pondering the advice of the guys who recommend a speaker vs sub ...

 

However you do it, you're going to get the best results by splitting the lowest frequencies to a sub or bass amp/speaker and the higher ones (above 100 hz) to the SS3. That's not to say you won't get better results by just adding another speaker, but that won't give you the best bang for the buck. The benefit of most subs -- including the B1200 -- is the ability to filter what's coming into them and what's going out without needing a separate crossover.

[Al Coda]

For most situations we're talking about that Behringer sub is probably good enough but if you're really kicking bass in front of 300 people in a loud venue, you'll need the same setup a good bass player would use and those ain't cheap.Bob

 

It really depends on the strategy you follow and which direction you go.

 

WHEN you decided for the CPS SSv3 w/ it´s small Eminence 8" and 6.5" 100W powered LF woofers and 105 dB SPL at max., you really don´t need a 1.500W powered 2x15 or single 18" sub delivering 127 dB SPL to complement.

 

I really understand some people hate reading the Behringer logo on their gear, but at the end of the day, all the cheaper 10" and 12" subwoofers available don´t work as good as the hi-end subs.

You could also buy Samson, Alto, Yamaha, EV or similar small subs, but the I/O signal path is different.

 

The Behringer´s advantage over other cheapo subs is, you go stereo in and 100Hz filtered out to the SSv3 and the B-sub is almost as compact and lightweigt as the SSv3 itself. You don´t need any separate active x-over unit. End of story.

 

The hi-end subs are for PA and there you also don´t see arrays of CPS SSv3s flying in the rig or as sidefills.

 

Look at the prices for Eminence speakers,- that´s not the hi-end components you find in the hi-end PA speaker cabs and subwoofers.

In the B-sub there´s nothing better I assume.

 

Aspen´s M/S technology delivering some 3D sound from a single tri-amped active speaker is the core idea,- and it seems it works.

Combine it w/ something being on par and avoid overkill.

Just only my opinion and YMMV.

 

For the big gigs, p.ex. concert touring, I´d avoid using my own amplification and speakers at all.

I´d use inears and what the crowd gets comes from PA.

 

When I want to go for a jam, rehearsal and small gig (SSv3 as keyboard monitor), SSv3 fitting a backseat of a small car is cool IMO.

Only depending on intended use (synth bass, kicking organ pedals) I´d use the sub.

 

I would not invest 2 grand or more for a hi-end sub I only occasionally use to complete w/ SSv3,- but feel free to take a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

 

A.C.

 

[Al Coda]

"...they said they could hear me playing things they never knew I did," I think, "uh oh. Maybe I don't want one of these..."

 

 

 

 

A.C.

[Tombsalley]

The Yamaha DXS 12 sounds like it would kick but, your looking at a 73 lb

Sub. Also 3 times the price.

 

Make sure there is some distance from you. Sounds crazy

But, it's possible " you think" it's not loud enough.

Have someone listen at some distance if possible

To the over all mix and see how the mix really is.

Placement can be key

 

 

[Doerfler]

The Yamaha DXS 12 sounds like it would kick but, your looking at a 73 lb

Sub. Also 3 times the price.

It's a professional piece of kit. As we all know, the cheapest product isn't usually the best. When you load your sub onto a roller cart, the weight difference doesn't much matter. To your last point, it's money well spent. YMMV, but maybe it shouldn't. Cheers

[HammondDave]

If you can't hear yourself well on stage, what's the point?