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Stevie: superstition


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My approach is always to nail the details first, then embellish AFTER.

My approach as well...often because I often can't adequately do the latter without the former! I do sincerely admire players with more visceral abilities.

 

While I've never had any intention of playing this tune, on behalf of our community, thanks FKS! :2thu:

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."

- George Bernard Shaw

 

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Someone shared this on FB with me last year; I had it bookmarked. Thanks for posting the charts - FKS!

 

[video:youtube]

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Korg Kronos 2 73

Mag C2 organ

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GSI DMC-122 

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Wow, I know what I'll be working on post-NAMM. Thanks FKS!

 

In your reduction score looks like you left out the natural sign for the C.

 

Another thing to point out is the swing feel, the attitude in his playing. Whenever a guitar player calls this tune that goes right out the window, which is a shame.

 

Finally, I too have always found it hard to get the RH slapping to sound right on a rompler. I think it's the key triggering/lack of sound subtlety. I need a better sampled clav I think. Or maybe it's just me. Don't blame the tools, right? :-)

 

Thanks again!

 

Jerry

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These are very helpful, I never dug that guys video because he just starts stacking the parts rather than isolating them. And then shouts over it. What a wasted opportunity.

 

Thanks for these.

 

Jerry

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I found these reasonable music quality examples on the 'net (all youtubes):

 

,
, "videoboxmusiclive" (more recent live)

 

From listening to the first part of these three, the record version being of course very familiar, at the very least: they're all different, they all "play" with the sound, it's effects and certainly with for me very recognizable funk tricks, and there's a clear production "sauce" either implied or actually there that does specific short term reverberation stuff apparently people have a difficult time acknowledging.

 

T.

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I stumbled onto this video a couple of years ago hoping for some assistance in developing a method for properly simulating the studio tracks.

 

After watching it many times I realized I would never be able to do this. It's pretty incredible.

 

I hear him covering 4 parts with two hands - and singing it.

 

Karn Evil 9 is easier.

 

EDIT: I planned on posting this video prior to reaching Theo's post. I should have quoted it from there as it is his link I copied.

 

So kudos to Theo!

Prophet 6, '38 Hammond BC, HR40, 2 Leslie 760's, Prophet 08 PE, RD700GX, Ensoniq E-Prime, SCI Pro-One, TX-7, CP80, Arturia VI's
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I stumbled onto this video a couple of years ago hoping for some assistance in developing a method for properly simulating the studio tracks.

 

After watching it many times I realized I would never be able to do this. It's pretty incredible.

 

I hear him covering 4 parts with two hands - and singing it.

 

Karn Evil 9 is easier.

Thanks Arnold.

 

That's a masterclass. Ostinato left hand I can do, but the funky LH syncopations with vocals on top? Whew.

 

But now I know why it's in Ebm. If you watch his right hand he looks like he's slapping the Gb Ab Bb like a conga. Hard to do in a guitar key.

 

Finally, when I zeroed in on the guitar I realized that I initially mistook some of the distorted guitar chords for clav. Not so. I think he's the one that makes it sound like there are more clavs behind a curtain.

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My problem with playing the song is that I haven't heard a patch on the Kurzweil that will get the staccato'd percussive jabs correctly. You can hear every note.

Ditto Nord. The release is WAY too long on the Nord, which ruins it for copping some of the great clav parts. Idunno why, but clavs have an amazingly fast release, and it's a crucial (but usually muffed) part of the sound.
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But really, G flat? Ugh! I have a hard enough time reading in normal keys. With that many flats, I'm just plain confused. Not to mention I can't read the timing much at all and have to rely on my memory and listening to supply that. I'll blame my parents for not getting me lessons.

 

I sure haven't studied the part the way FKS has, but here's how I hear the chords in the bridge, and they work for me. I got our horn section to do it right, but the damn guitarist just can't seem to get his mind around it. I wish he'd just drop out for those chords. Ugh.

 

Bb7 B7b5 Bb7 A7b5 Ab7 Bb+

 

When I saw (and tried playing) FKS's Gb/Ab instead of the Ab7 it sounded wrong to me, but listening to the cut, I see now that the band is playing an Ab7 but Stevie is definitely riffing on the Gb/Ab, and it's a nice twist I'd missed before!

 

Other than that, the main difference between FKS's and mine (if I got it right) is I'm leaving out the 9ths. When I tried it, my natural inclination was to play the 9ths instead of the 3rds, and I didn't like the result. But looking at the staff notation (and not having the skillz to read it properly), I see 4 notes not three, so it must include the 3rd and 9th, and when I do that, bingo!

 

I think I'll keep omitting those 9ths, simply because with the horn section not always getting it right, and the guitarist usually getting it wrong, I don't need to add any more notes!

 

FKS, I'd love to hear a recording of just you playing your combined part! And thanks for posting!

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Thanks all for the kind words. I'm pleased that people have found my post useful. I've gotten so much from this forum over the years, I'm more than happy to be able to give something back.

 

I also know for a fact that Stevie can perform this song with only his own two hands, and it is also impressive, convincing and authentic sounding.

 

Oh, absolutely. If anything I said implied otherwise, that was not my intention. :)

 

I literally saw and heard him do this in Detroit nearly 40 years ago when he came up on stage with my band, sang and played it on my Clav while I played the Rhodes that the clav was sitting on. :cool:

 

Where's that "seething jealousy" emoticon when you need it?

 

I struggle to understand why we often aim or Xerox like focus on the "tree" while missing the spirit of the "forest" in which the music was created.

 

A perfectly valid question. I dug into this tune as deeply as I did for one simple reason: I just loved the tune that much, and for my own edification wanted to figure out what was going on with it and what made it sound the way it did. That doesn't mean I think it's necessary to copy the original exactly any time you play the tune. But I think it's useful information to have when deciding how to approach it.

 

Thinking about it has got me motivated to get off my butt and actually do the video -- which makes it extra sucky that my NS2 was stolen. Not only was it my best Clav sound, but it also had the painstakingly-crafted patch I used for the horn parts, for which I sampled individual notes from the isolated horn tracks. Dammit.

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This'll be a good excuse to put those new Purgatory Creek Clavinet D6 samples to use on my Kronos! (Still hoping Nord releases a new OS for the Stage with some Clavinet key off and mute samples) Great performance on YouTube with the trumpet and the single Clav.. Love it.

 

 

Nord Stage 3 Compact

Nord Stage 2 EX Compact

Korg Kronos 2 73

Mag C2 organ

UHL X3-1 organ

GSI DMC-122 

Radial KL8

Motion Sound Kp500S

Macbook Pro 
Falcon, UVI, Kontakt, Logic, PT

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I love threads like this one, so much fun. But as far as actually performing this is concerned I agree with Steve Nathan. There's the original studio version and then when the artist goes on the road, things change. Just listen to all these different live vids. SW doesn't care if those parts are exact or not, it's a killer groove and good players can handle it in lots of different ways. Just like the girl singer doing the horn parts in that vid. She's close but she's not covering the original horn lines note for note. And check out the guitarist. The vid shows exactly what he's doing. That's not on the original record either yet it's funky as hell.

 

I'll bet I've done at least 10 different variations of this over the years. I'll have a guitarist who's nailing parts of this that requires me to change the clav part a bit just because I like what he's doing so I'll follow him. Other times, I'm doing it better and the other guys will follow me. It all depends on who's in the band at the time. I guess that's me coming at this from a jazz point of view. I've never cared about nailing a part exactly like the record. I'll make it close, make it sound good but busting my head to get something exact that I know the artist never did again? Nah.

 

However I'm not a Luddite about this, some things have to be like the record like the intro to Light My Fire or So What. Many times guys will do stuff in the studio just to make it impossible for cover bands like "Here ya go, cover THIS!!"

 

But, I'm not denigrating this thread or the great work FKS did, this is a very good learning experience and I enjoy it a lot.

 

Bob

Hammond SK1, Mojo 61, Kurzweil PC3, Korg Pa3x, Roland FA06, Band in a Box, Real Band, Studio One, too much stuff...
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FKS. In reading this again, I see how it could easily look like I was aiming my comments directly at you (I was not), and I'm sorry I left that impression.

I was aiming at the broader target of musicians in general, in whom I too often see this tendency to think that the secret to being a great player lies in discovering exactly "which drawbars do I pull?", or "what preset?", or "what notes?". As we both observed, Stevie couldn't give a rat's ass if he's playing it "like the record" on any given performance. Neither should we.

I agree that dissecting another player's art can be useful in developing one's ear, or technique, but IMHO it should not be a path to developing one's individuality and style. And no one will convince me that their audience is so sophisticated, they will be troubled if you fail to play it identically.

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FKS. In reading this again, I see how it could easily look like I was aiming my comments directly at you (I was not), and I'm sorry I left that impression.

I was aiming at the broader target of musicians in general, in whom I too often see this tendency to think that the secret to being a great player lies in discovering exactly "which drawbars do I pull?", or "what preset?", or "what notes?". As we both observed, Stevie couldn't give a rat's ass if he's playing it "like the record" on any given performance. Neither should we.

I agree that dissecting another player's art can be useful in developing one's ear, or technique, but IMHO it should not be a path to developing one's individuality and style. And no one will convince me that their audience is so sophisticated, they will be troubled if you fail to play it identically.

 

Well said man.

 

Now maybe people will please stop emailing asking me for the "Exact arpeggiator thingy from Pink Floyd's On The Run and The Who's Baba O'Reilly"?

[blasphemy on this forum I know, I'm sorry.]

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Let ME make it clear, since I started this thread.....

 

 

I did this song beginning in the early 90s, ending late 90s, probably the way most of you do it. It was ok, people probably didn't know the difference. I took shortcuts because I learned 60 songs in a couple months, and whatever I came up with stuck.

 

Fine.

 

I'm older, more accomplished, and at the point in my life that if I want to do this song again, I don't want to fall into my old ways. I want to do it justice. More important for me, I want to grow,

 

As to the sound....talk amongst yourselves, I got it covered. Kronos has the STR-1 engine, I can model it.

 

I strictly asked about tips for handling the fact that here were multiple parts.

Dan

 

Acoustic/Electric stringed instruments ranging from 4 to 230 strings, hammered, picked, fingered, slapped, and plucked. Analog and Digital Electronic instruments, reeds, and throat/mouth.

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Thinking about it has got me motivated to get off my butt and actually do the video -- which makes it extra sucky that my NS2 was stolen. Not only was it my best Clav sound, but it also had the painstakingly-crafted patch I used for the horn parts, for which I sampled individual notes from the isolated horn tracks. Dammit.

 

Your NS2 was stolen? That really sucks. Does your custom patch still live on, in your Nord Sound Manager app?

 

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FKS. In reading this again, I see how it could easily look like I was aiming my comments directly at you (I was not), and I'm sorry I left that impression.

 

Not at all, and no offense taken. S'all good. :thu:

 

It's funny, but for many years I had always said that if there was one tune I wish I could access the master tapes for, it would be Superstition, just so I could isolate and figure out what Stevie was actually playing. Of course I regarded this as pure fantasy, since I'd never have access to the actual masters, and "multitrack bootlegs" of master tapes didn't exist. Then one day out of nowhere, I learned that there was in fact a multitrack bootleg of the Superstition master tapes floating around, and I tracked it down.

 

Your NS2 was stolen? That really sucks.

 

Yes and yes.

 

Does your custom patch still live on, in your Nord Sound Manager app?

 

I'm pretty sure it does, but it's kind of a moot point since I don't see myself getting another NS2. However, I still have the raw chopped-up samples on my laptop, so if I end up getting another board that can do custom samples, I'll be able to recreate it.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Last summer I had some fun recording my own "One Man Band" cover of Superstition, and for the occasion I used my Clavinet D6, Minimoog, did the brass parts on the Prophet 12 and I also played drums. The vocals uses the original track from the multitrack masters (found somewhere on the web years ago).

 

I know I'm not the master of timing... but hey, that was fun! :)

 

[video:youtube]AcSWHBxHERo

 

 

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That's cool Guido, BTW VERY cool re the dmc-122. I have three of your VSTs but admit to having not visited your site for some time. Lots happening :)

 

Again thx for sharing the vid!

There is no luck - luck is simply the confluence of circumstance and co-incidence...

 

Time is the final arbiter for all things

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I heard the " No Wonder " ( Stevie's current band?) band live at the NAMM show.

 

It's a good band, but who ever was mixing the sound destroyed the gig by blasting us with bass. You know the kind.... so much bass happening that it buries the nuance of the the guitar, keyboards, horns and percussion. Vocals were the only thing that could somehow compete.

 

A shame really.... and a reminder not to pay steep ticket prices to gamble that something like this could happen again.

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  • 3 years later...

I've recently been working on this tune and remembered there were some threads about it, but I had forgotten how detailed. When I saw this one with Josh's dissertation, I was bummed that the links were broken. Then I remembered something. I had saved the dissertation with the images as a file on my computer. So for anyone that comes across this thread, here's a link to a PDF that has the text and images from Josh's initial post. (Sorry about the page breaks, that's just the way it rendered.)

 

Josh never did that YouTube video :poke:

"I'm so crazy, I don't know this is impossible! Hoo hoo!" - Daffy Duck

 

"The good news is that once you start piano you never have to worry about getting laid again. More time to practice!" - MOI

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